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Are the Jets any better off than the Rex/Idzik regime?


Ken Schroy

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who is this guy lou costello?  where's abbott?  how soon people forget the last two rex years.  the very fact that mac and bowles aren't outright warring should be enough of a change.  maybe the equal level that woody installed isn't the best way but thus far these guys are seeing eye to eye on most things.  and you can argue that geno this year would have been better than fitz.  they did make the change against the ravens and then fitz won the job back when geno went down.  does anyone in their right mind think they should have gone to petty from the ravens game on?  i sure don't. after the ravens they still had a chance to be 5-5 or 6-4 at the break and that would've put them right in the middle of the playoff race.  now petty makes sense or even hack.  people seem to forget that rex went to vick in 2014 when geno stunk it up.

the bottom line is until the qb situation is settled nothing else will be and at least mac has shown getting a qb is a priority.

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1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

This isn't an argument; you're just listing guys, and considering you left off Winters, Pryor, and Marcus Williams, you suck at that, too.

With the exception of Williams, all of the Maccagnan guys playing "meaningful minutes" are terrible.

Winters, Enunwa, and Marcus Williams all sucked before our coaching staff was brought in so that's something to consider.  Guys like Sanjay Lal were tutoring our young Wide Recievers, Enunwa included.  Feel what you want about Mac, we already know we disagree, but Idzik was a failure of horrendous proportions.  A dead animal could have drafted better, and so far, Maccagnan has.

Williams is phenomenal.

Lee looks good. 

Mauldin is having a strong second half.

Jordan Jenkins has played very well for a rookie LB. 

Robby Anderson and Jalin Marshall look like they can be 2 solid WRs, especially considering they were UDFAs.

If Petty becomes a solid backup that can make spot starts, that was a pretty good use of a 4th.  Anything else is gravy.

Hackenberg, the big "?", jury is still out. 

Charone Peake has been a good 7th round pick, give him a year or two and we might have another Enunwa. Lach Edwards has finally given us a solid punter.

Deon Simon has shown big time potential and could be another Damon Harrison (low pick, high return).

Idzik's drafts, with the exception of Sheldon, were abysmal.  Quincy working out, IMO, has more to do with proper coaching than anything else.  Pryor has been a mixed bag.  Jalen Saunders was a midget epileptic.  Amaro never did anything other than drop passes.  Geno.  Milliner never got off the IR.  Winters sucked until this staff got their hands on him.  Tajh Boyd.  Shaq Evans.  McDougle has been "eh". Trevor Reilly & Bohannon, list goes on.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This isn't an argument; you're just listing guys, and considering you left off Winters, Pryor, and Marcus Williams, you suck at that, too.

With the exception of Williams, all of the Maccagnan guys playing "meaningful minutes" are terrible.

MArcus Williams wasn't a draft pick.

So Winters, Pryor, Enunwa, Richardson

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2 hours ago, flgreen said:

Strongly doubt they will be drafting a QB this year.   NO QB in this draft IMO is worth an early 1st round pick.

Jets already have two project QB's who were drafted by Macc in the 2nd, and traded up for in the 4th.  Neither has been given a chance.  To take another QB, in a very weak QB draft would be admitting he has wasted 3 draft picks.

If both young QB's fail next year, the 2018 draft, at this point at least, looks like a much stronger QB draft early.  Of course if both young QB's fail this coming year it probably won't be Macc making e selection

 

Ron Wolf method. All I have to say

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While we arent as bad as the worst of the 90s teams with Kotite, since 2011 this is pretty much our worst period of football since then and the lack of playoffs is probably going to challenge the 70s. So its a pretty rough time to be a Jets fan especially if you are younger and grew up in the post Parcells era where the team at least went in and out of playoff contention.  

The roster has pretty much gone sideways under Mac/Bowles. Its like the Idzik years were some dream episodes for the Jets and when we woke up we found a roster full of the same faces from 2012 like Cro and Revis and a bunch of aging veterans as if they never changed the focus from the last years of Tannenbaum.  Not surprisingly the team is right back where they were in 2013 except this time we wont have the dead money issues, just roster holes. 

That said the one area where we are better off with Bowles and Mac is that I think they are on the same page. Idzik and Rex were in different worlds. Its pretty hard to operate when the coach and the GM have totally different visions and are working against each other hoping the other gets fired.

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Just now, jason423 said:

While we arent as bad as the worst of the 90s teams with Kotite, since 2011 this is pretty much our worst period of football since then and the lack of playoffs is probably going to challenge the 70s. So its a pretty rough time to be a Jets fan especially if you are younger and grew up in the post Parcells era where the team at least went in and out of playoff contention.  

The roster has pretty much gone sideways under Mac/Bowles. Its like the Idzik years were some dream episodes for the Jets and when we woke up we found a roster full of the same faces from 2012 like Cro and Revis and a bunch of aging veterans as if they never changed the focus from the last years of Tannenbaum.  Not surprisingly the team is right back where they were in 2013 except this time we wont have the dead money issues, just roster holes. 

That said the one area where we are better off with Bowles and Mac is that I think they are on the same page. Idzik and Rex were in different worlds. Its pretty hard to operate when the coach and the GM have totally different visions and are working against each other hoping the other gets fired.

They have clearly more depth than Idzik did. There is no question of that

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This isn't an argument; you're just listing guys, and considering you left off Winters, Pryor, and Marcus Williams, you suck at that, too.

With the exception of Williams, all of the Maccagnan guys playing "meaningful minutes" are terrible.

The Jets scouting department needs a complete overhaul. Its pretty much been a disaster for years now when it comes to drafting talent. 

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15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

All you need to do is ask yourself this.

Which player from the first round were/are happier to have?

Vernon Gholston, Dee Milliner, or Darron Lee.

And yes, you have to choose 1 of those 3.

The sad thing is, I don't think you understand just how stupid this argument is.

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14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Ron Wolf method. All I have to say

Read an article not to long ago, think it was on JN, that the Jets over the last 10 years have drafted more QB's then any other team in the NFL.  Oh boy

Maybe they should at least let these kids they invested draft picks in get on the field for a few games before they replace  them.  They draft another QB Petty, who is also a spread O project will have to be cut.  That would be stupid

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35 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

They have clearly more depth than Idzik did. There is no question of that

What does this mean? What does any of this sh*t mean? Lee looks good. Simon has shown big time potential. Meaningful minutes. Even putting aside the obvious question of how the team can be so bad when we have so many promising players, you guys are in such a hurry to sort players into IDZIK (BAD) and MACCAGNAN (GOOD) piles that you're not just missing the forest, you're missing the whole ******* planet. Idzik retained Bradway and Bauer, boffed two drafts as a result, and passed on Teddy and Carr. Fine. Good riddance. But here's the news: when he got here, we were bad and old and capped out. When he left, we were bad and young and flush with cash. Twentysomeodd months later, we're bad and old and capped out again, and we have no long-term solution at any of the positions that matter. Like it or not, Idzik clearly had a plan. Maccagnan's just pushing whatever buttons it takes to keep you dumbasses thinking it's everyone else's fault that we're only three games better than the Idzik/Rex CF was through 27. The sad part is, it's working.

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13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

What does this mean? What does any of this sh*t mean? Lee looks good. Simon has shown big time potential. Meaningful minutes. Even putting aside the obvious question of how the team can be so bad when we have so many promising players, you guys are in such a hurry to sort players into IDZIK (BAD) and MACCAGNAN (GOOD) piles that you're not just missing the forest, you're missing the whole ******* planet. Idzik retained Bradway and Bauer, boffed two drafts as a result, and passed on Teddy and Carr. Fine. Good riddance. But here's the news: when he got here, we were bad and old and capped out. When he left, we were bad and young and flush with cash. Twentysomeodd months later, we're bad and old and capped out again, and we have no long-term solution at any of the positions that matter. Like it or not, Idzik clearly had a plan. Maccagnan's just pushing whatever buttons it takes to keep you dumbasses thinking it's everyone else's fault that we're only three games better than the Idzik/Rex CF was through 27. The sad part is, it's working.

A couple of obvious cuts and we're 30 million under the CAP and a much younger team.  You talk about rushing opinions with the GOOD/BAD and yet you rush to judge young players that aren't even a full year into their careers.  Hate Macc, fine, but be consistent.

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5 hours ago, Ken Shroy said:

Are the Jets any better off than the Rex/Idzik regime?

Jets owner Woody Johnson selected Mike Maccagnan as general manager and Todd Bowles as head coach to lead his franchise on Jan. 14, 2015. On Thursday, it will be 686 days since that decision. How much better are the Jets now than they were then? It is a startling question to consider two years into a regime, but there currently are very few signs the Jets are in a better place in December 2016 than they were in December 2014, when Rex Ryan and John Idzik were in their final days with the team. Two years ago Thursday, the Jets lost to the Dolphins 16-13 on a Monday night at MetLife Stadium, a game best remembered for Geno Smith throwing just 13 passes. The loss dropped the Jets to 2-10 in that miserable season, another loss as they played out the string. This Monday, the Jets face the Colts at MetLife Stadium. They are 3-8 and the season ended before Thanksgiving. Through 27 games, the Maccagnan/Bowles Jets look a whole lot like the Idzik/Ryan Jets. They still have no answer at quarterback. In 2014, there still was some hope for Smith. Now, they have two quarterbacks they are scared to put on the field and Ryan Fitzpatrick playing out his final days as a Jet. The Jets overachieved in 2015, going 10-6 but falling short of the playoffs before bottoming out this year. It is similar pattern to the 2013 Jets overachieving to go 8-8 and missing the playoffs, then cratering in 2014 and going 4-12. Just as in 2014, this roster is full of holes. Jot down a list of draft needs for the Jets and you are basically filling out a depth chart. Outside of defensive line, you could argue every other position is one that needs to be addressed. There is no evidence Maccagnan’s first two draft classes are any better than Idzik’s. Like Idzik, Maccagnan landed a stud defensive lineman in the first round of his first draft. Like Idzik, there is very little else to be confident in.

fi.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=344Are the Jets any better off than the Rex/Idzik regime?
 

What can fans get excited about now? Another miserable Monday night at MetLife?

Jets fans deserve better.

We certainly do.......

Can't wait to return to the MET LIFE DUMP on Monday Nite. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just End The Season.

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2 hours ago, jason423 said:

The Jets scouting department needs a complete overhaul. Its pretty much been a disaster for years now when it comes to drafting talent. 

The Jets cleaned house in the scouting department after the 2015 draft. Maccagnan could not get rid of the prior regime's scouts prior to the 2015 draft because he did not have enough time to put a new staff in and get scouting in time for the upcoming draft. 

2016 was Maccagnan's first draft with his scouting department in place. 

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2 hours ago, jason423 said:

The Jets scouting department needs a complete overhaul. Its pretty much been a disaster for years now when it comes to drafting talent. 

Not getting overhauled anytime soon. When Mac was hired, he did quickly revamp the scouting department after the 2015 draft. It's his team in place now.

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Frankly, it is a bit difficult to judge Macc's drafts because of Bowles. Bowles is a Parcells disciple and, similar to Parcells, he is extremely stubborn about playing young kids. It's difficult for me to judge Mauldin when he didn't start getting serious minutes in both seasons until later in the year because Bowles wants to be cute and play Sheldon at OLB. I can't judge Petty because the team won't bench Fitz. We can pass judgment on Harrison because he got cut. Deon Simon is getting minutes in his second season as a 7th round pick. 7th rounders get cut about 1/2 the time. Devin Smith has been injured since he got here, but he wasn't injury prone in college (like Dee Milliner), so I can't kill the team over Smith's injuries. Sh!t happens sometimes. 

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3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

The Jets cleaned house in the scouting department after the 2015 draft. Maccagnan could not get rid of the prior regime's scouts prior to the 2015 draft because he did not have enough time to put a new staff in and get scouting in time for the upcoming draft. 

2016 was Maccagnan's first draft with his scouting department in place. 

Sorry maury, you beat me to it

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6 hours ago, gEYno said:

I won't argue with any of that.  What I will argue is that Prescott in the 4th is far better than Hackenberg in the 2nd.  Or Hackenberg in the 3rd.  Or Hackenberg in the 4th.  Or Hackenberg at all.

Right now, it certainly looks that way. I will wait to reserve final judgement until the book is written on both of them however. I don't even really like Mac much, but how anyone can defend anything Idzik did is beyond me.

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3 hours ago, jason423 said:

The Jets scouting department needs a complete overhaul. Its pretty much been a disaster for years now when it comes to drafting talent. 

I actually think if you do enough homework you could get by without much of a scouting department. The internet pretty much does all the work for you now. Once you get direct access to the players via interviews and find out if they like football and arent crazy- there's enough data to make a decision. Someone's technique at CB for instance means little if they run a 4.6 and the receiver they're covering runs a 4.7. The top athletes rise to the top in the league 99% of the time.

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List all the starting positions where the Jets are likely set past 2017 (even if blindly giving the benefit of the doubt that we re-sign any desireable FAs when their current contracts are up).

  • DE/DT with Williams, but Mo is a ? to make it to year 3 of his deal.
  • Guards Carpenter and Winters.
  • WRs look good so far and hopefully will look even better after another season in '17, even if they're without B.Marshall or Decker for 2018+. Remains to be seen how good they are as a group without a B.Marshall commanding so much attention from opposing defenses.
  • They hopefully have a couple of good but unspectacular LBers in Lee and Jenkins, if both improve and can stay on the field. (Maudlin is fine as a backup but not for every down.)
  • McLendon will still be under contract in 2018, but in his last year at age 32.
  • Either Powell or Forte as 3rd down back. Doubtful both are still here. Also either would be entering his final Jets season due to age for the position, and not likely starting.

Anyone else I'm missing?

I've got 1-2 DE/DT linemen, 2 OGs, likely/hopefully good WRs, and maybe 2 LBers, neither of whom are serious pass rushers. That's less than half the team's starters, even including optimistic "ifs" from current part-time players at WR and LB. That just sucks.

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Continuing above, as of today, the starting holes needed to fill to get us into 2018 (again, this is if we don't lose a single desireable young player to FA):

  1. QB
  2. RB
  3. LT
  4. RT
  5. C
  6. TE
  7. Pass rushing OLB/DE
  8. (Maybe DE/DT if they cut Mo when feasible after '17)
  9. ILB2
  10. CB1
  11. CB2
  12. NB if they have had it with Skrine at $6M by then
  13. FS
  14. SS unless something unexpectedly good occurs with Pryor's play

Filling the bolded positions often require a 1st round pick (if not a high 1st round pick at that) or if a veteran, a huge-money contract well into 8 figures/yr. Plenty of others aren't exactly "cheap" either.

2018 is relevant because it speaks to what has been built starting a full 3 years earlier.

One should note that nearly half of today's starter's that we'll still have in 2018 - Enunwa, Winters, Mo, and arguably the #6 pick that netted the sure-thing Williams - were inherited.

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6 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Twentysomeodd months later, we're bad and old and capped out again, and we have no long-term solution at any of the positions that matter.

Being a fan of the Jets is like doing the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge once a year, only instead of ice water the bucket is filled with scorpions.

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53 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Continuing above, as of today, the starting holes needed to fill to get us into 2018 (again, this is if we don't lose a single desireable young player to FA):

  1. QB
  2. RB
  3. LT
  4. RT
  5. C
  6. TE
  7. Pass rushing OLB/DE
  8. (Maybe DE/DT if they cut Mo when feasible after '17)
  9. ILB2
  10. CB1
  11. CB2
  12. NB if they have had it with Skrine at $6M by then
  13. FS
  14. SS unless something unexpectedly good occurs with Pryor's play

Filling the bolded positions often require a 1st round pick (if not a high 1st round pick at that) or if a veteran, a huge-money contract well into 8 figures/yr. Plenty of others aren't exactly "cheap" either.

2018 is relevant because it speaks to what has been built starting a full 3 years earlier.

One should note that nearly half of today's starter's that we'll still have in 2018 - Enunwa, Winters, Mo, and arguably the #6 pick that netted the sure-thing Williams - were inherited.

I hate everything and everyone and you especially.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

List all the starting positions where the Jets are likely set past 2017 (even if blindly giving the benefit of the doubt that we re-sign any desireable FAs when their current contracts are up).

  • DE/DT with Williams, but Mo is a ? to make it to year 3 of his deal.
  • Guards Carpenter and Winters.
  • WRs look good so far and hopefully will look even better after another season in '17, even if they're without B.Marshall or Decker for 2018+. Remains to be seen how good they are as a group without a B.Marshall commanding so much attention from opposing defenses.
  • They hopefully have a couple of good but unspectacular LBers in Lee and Jenkins, if both improve and can stay on the field. (Maudlin is fine as a backup but not for every down.)
  • McLendon will still be under contract in 2018, but in his last year at age 32.
  • Either Powell or Forte as 3rd down back. Doubtful both are still here. Also either would be entering his final Jets season due to age for the position, and not likely starting.

Anyone else I'm missing?

I've got 1-2 DE/DT linemen, 2 OGs, likely/hopefully good WRs, and maybe 2 LBers, neither of whom are serious pass rushers. That's less than half the team's starters, even including optimistic "ifs" from current part-time players at WR and LB. That just sucks.

I think you can live with our 2 starting safetys and Skrine is fine in the nickel. Our secondary sucks because of Revis and because we play Skrine on the outside too much. 

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Honestly, I think the Jets were MUCH better off under Rex/Idzik then they are now....Now I was one of the very few that didn't want to see Idzik fired as I felt like he deserved more time to put his plan in place...but "Plan" is the key word.  Even if you don't like either of them...At least Idzik had a plan, you might not have liked his plan but he did have one.

Mac doesn't seem to have much of anything.  The team is a mess and it's difficult to look at the next two or three years and see this team getting anywhere near the level of a serious contender. 

 

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, I think the Jets were MUCH better off under Rex/Idzik then they are now....Now I was one of the very few that didn't want to see Idzik fired as I felt like he deserved more time to put his plan in place...but "Plan" is the key word.  Even if you don't like either of them...At least Idzik had a plan, you might not have liked his plan but he did have one.

Mac doesn't seem to have much of anything.  The team is a mess and it's difficult to look at the next two or three years and see this team getting anywhere near the level of a serious contender. 

 

Idzik's plan was to rely on Geno Smith to develop into a franchise QB. He drafted Geno and showed no interest in doing anything else at the QB position. He cleared out a bunch of very obvious bad contracts which were designed for what he did. He stockpiled picks, but then used them very poorly. He completely blew a top 10 pick on an injured player that everyone else stayed away from. At the end of the day, he got fired too soon, but it was because he was incorrectly hired because he was the best of a motley crew who would consider taking the job with the fat moron man baby shoved as his HC. He passed on what looks like a potential perennial top 5 QB in Carr, and 2 possible other franchise QB's in Garapolo and Teddy B.

Mac seems to be hell bent on getting a QB, he drafted one in each of his first two drafts, supposedly tried to trade up high to get one of the top 2, inquired about Glennon. Macs problem is that he is trying to do two competing things at the same time, build for the future, and win now. Its really hard to do. I suspect this was a Woody mandate. Its also really hard to find a QB. He passed up Dak, but I am still not convinced he is a franchise QB. Whether or not he can find a QB will ultimately be what makes or breaks him, if he makes it long enough to keep trying. 

 

Jets fans scream, get a QB, without one nothing else matters. Well, we have a guy who seems to understand that now, whether he can do it, who knows, but Idzik did not understand that at all, either that or he was delusional about how bad Geno Smith actually was.

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33 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Macs problem is that he is trying to do two competing things at the same time, build for the future, and win now. Its really hard to do. I suspect this was a Woody mandate.

Um, this what ALL GMs are mandated to do. And, yes, it's really hard to do.

As far as Geno Smith goes, I really don't see how he was as bad as you claim he was.

I mean, compared to the guys we currently have, who can't even see the field, it would appear that he certainly is better than they are.

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