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Are the Jets any better off than the Rex/Idzik regime?


Ken Schroy

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10 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Right now, it certainly looks that way. I will wait to reserve final judgement until the book is written on both of them however. I don't even really like Mac much, but how anyone can defend anything Idzik did is beyond me.

I think we can all just sit back and hope that chapter two of that book is titled, "How the 2nd round pick clawed his way to 3rd string in year 2."  Sky's the limit from there!

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18 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Um, this what ALL GMs are mandated to do. And, yes, it's really hard to do.

As far as Geno Smith goes, I really don't see how he was as bad as you claim he was.

I mean, compared to the guys we currently have, who can't even see the field, it would appear that he certainly is better than they are.

Geno was friggin awesome, your right. Some lucky franchise is going to get the franchise QB we should have had. 

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9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think we can all just sit back and hope that chapter two of that book is titled, "How the 2nd round pick clawed his way to 3rd string in year 2."  Sky's the limit from there!

Even if that is chapter 2, which is probably, Hackenberg was a late 2nd round pick. The scouting department saw things they liked in him, they thought or think they could turn him into something. Scouts are wrong, scouts have been wrong on much higher picks than Hackenberg, and will be in the future. At the end of the day, I will take a GM that goes above and beyond trying to find a QB, even if there are mistakes along the way, to one who watched Geno Smith up close and thought he was the guy......

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2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Geno was friggin awesome, your right. Some lucky franchise is going to get the franchise QB we should have had. 

How is this team any better off than the 2 years after Idzik?  To me it seems we're in a substantially worse position now than after year 2 of Idzik.  We'll be coming off a similarly crappy record but this time with no cap space....

Right now it's hard to look at this team and say Mac has done a better job than Idzik.

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I think everyone needs to relax a little. This year sucks but sometimes only a few pieces can turn everything around. IMO, we are def better than we were with Idzik/Rex. We actually have some young talent that have chances to develop into good players. We went 10-6 last year and don't give me that "easy schedule" rebuttal. There are no real easy games in the league. This 3-8 team almost beat The  Pats, so does that make them a fluke? Of course not.

The cowboys last year even with all their talent, with an injured Romo started 1-11. They basically had the same QB production last season that we're having this year. Now look at the cowboys, also look how long Jerry Jones has been patient with Jason Garret. It all takes time. My biggest issue with Bowles is this whle Fitz fiasco which if he doesn't play Petty at all this year, I will be in board with firing.

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

How is this team any better off than the 2 years after Idzik?  To me it seems we're in a substantially worse position now than after year 2 of Idzik.  We'll be coming off a similarly crappy record but this time with no cap space....

Right now it's hard to look at this team and say Mac has done a better job than Idzik.

I can't argue we are in a better position, or that Mac has done a better job. I don't even want to argue that Mac is the guy. What I will argue was that Idzik was clearly not the guy. He had a freedom that Mac did not, Woody allowed him to break down the roster and deal with losing seasons, until the fan base lost their sh!t. Mac was clearly given a mandate by Woody to win now.

The reason I will argue that Idizk was not the guy was because he relied on Geno Smith, and passed on 2 possibly 3 franchise QB's because he had Geno Smith, and took Pryor over them. In addition, when you wanted a top 10 pick on an injury riddled CB, its a killer.

If we are in a better spot, its because Mac is going to do everything he can to fix the QB position, its really that simple. I don't think Idzik understood that.

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19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Why do jets fans get caught up in the whole, is the sh*t show we are in now any worse than the sh*t show of a few years back and oh how i long for the sh*t show from 3 years ago because it may have been slightly less of a sh*t show than this sh*t show.

Hahaha.

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Geno was friggin awesome, your right. Some lucky franchise is going to get the franchise QB we should have had. 

You think Geno was "awesome"?  I don't.

I think he was a rookie and second-year QB with a lot of dreck surrounding him who performed as one might expect a rookie and second-year QB to perform with the lack of significant talent on both the OL and the skill positions.

Then again, you're probably clouded by the performance of the 33-year old guy we have manning the position now.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

How is this team any better off than the 2 years after Idzik?  To me it seems we're in a substantially worse position now than after year 2 of Idzik.  We'll be coming off a similarly crappy record but this time with no cap space....

Right now it's hard to look at this team and say Mac has done a better job than Idzik.

The difference is our roster has more pieces now we just still need a QB and HC which was the case two years ago.

 

Hire Coughlin/Sign Glennon

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2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

You think Geno was "awesome"?  I don't.

I think he was a rookie and second-year QB with a lot of dreck surrounding him who performed as one might expect a rookie and second-year QB to perform with the lack of significant talent on both the OL and the skill positions.

Then again, you're probably clouded by the performance of the 33-year old guy we have manning the position now.

I think both Geno Smith and the 33-year old guy we have manning the position now suck, and if either is our starting QB next year I am finding a new team, or giving up on the NFL completely

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Just now, NoBowles said:

I think both Geno Smith and the 33-year old guy we have manning the position now suck, and if either is our starting QB next year I am finding a new team, or giving up on the NFL completely

I disagree that he sucked. I think the Jets Offensive skill players and OL sucked. I think Geno was a rookie and 2nd-year guy who played down to the level of the rest of the team. And who endured some really off-the-charts hatred.

That said, he's not the most humble guy...

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Just now, phill1c said:

I disagree that he sucked. I think the Jets Offensive skill players and OL sucked. I think Geno was a rookie and 2nd-year guy who played down to the level of the rest of the team. And who endured some really off-the-charts hatred.

That said, he's not the most humble guy...

Your entitled to your opinion.

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21 hours ago, bitonti said:

Mac is better than Idzik for sure. Mac actually won exec of the year last year. Idzik was pathetic especially in the draft.

Bowles and Rex are about equal.  One is quiet the other is loud but both are 3-4 defensive guys who will go as far as the Qb takes them.  Firing either of these guys doesn't make the team better it just makes Tom Shane stop twitching for a couple hours. 

You can say that about any, if not every coach in the NFL.  I think it is more than a coincidence that most, if not all hall of fame coaches, coach hall of fame QBs.

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15 minutes ago, King P said:

Rex >>> Bowles

Macc is better than Idzik, but let's not act like he's been great either. He's made some good moves, but he's also made some really terrible ones as well.

Mac is a professional GM and competent GM unlike Idzik who was a worse version of Tanenbaum.

 

Let Mac pick his own head coach this offseason and sign Glennon.

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3 hours ago, August said:

It's pretty much even at this point but at least during the Idzik era we were actually trying to rebuild as opposed to shortsighted quick fixes just to compete. 

Why do you think that is? Because Idzik got run out of town and Macc doesnt want the same thing to happen to him.

Once again, back to the fans, media, and owner.

Fans are angry and irrational

Media wants to get views by riling up the fans

Owner wants fans to come to games and media to publicize his team.

The trinity of suckiness

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Let's clear up a falsehood:

Idzik got run out of town when the owner contracted TWO NFL experts and THEY told him Idzik was not good. Those experts told the owner that his drafting sucked and that there was no credible reason to be that far below the salary cap while fielding a 4-12 team. That the Jets were getting NO BETTER record or talent-wise.

The fans played no part in idzik's firing.

And to continually press this theory when there is no causative evidence seems irresponsible, indeed hysterical.

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3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Let's clear up a falsehood:

Idzik got run out of town when the owner contracted TWO NFL experts and THEY told him Idzik was not good. Those experts told the owner that his drafting sucked and that there was no credible reason to be that far below the salary cap while fielding a 4-12 team. That the Jets were getting NO BETTER record or talent-wise.

The fans played no part in idzik's firing.

And to continually press this theory when there is no causative evidence seems irresponsible, indeed hysterical.

Woody contacted the experts AFTER Idzik was fired.

And I guess you ignored the evidence of the banners and billboards?

Woody wants the media and the fanbase. That's why Tebow was brought here, that's why Favre was brought here, that's why Rex was hired..

The trinity of suckiness

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33 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Why do you think that is? Because Idzik got run out of town and Macc doesnt want the same thing to happen to him.

Once again, back to the fans, media, and owner.

Fans are angry and irrational

Media wants to get views by riling up the fans

Owner wants fans to come to games and media to publicize his team.

The trinity of suckiness

It's the vicious cycle. 

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And MIke Maccagnan did EVERYTHING that the majority of Jets fans wanted him to do. Just heard Jon Hein say it on Loud Mouths.

He resigned Fitzpatrick. He resigned Wilkerson, He brought back Darrelle Revis.

And of course the classic answer to that is that "GMs who listen to fans become fans"

Not with the Jets. And that's the problem.

The inmates run this asylum. Because of their location and the fact that they have a weak willed insecure owner.

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18 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And MIke Maccagnan did EVERYTHING that the majority of Jets fans wanted him to do. Just heard Jon Hein say it on Loud Mouths.

He resigned Fitzpatrick. He resigned Wilkerson, He brought back Darrelle Revis.

And of course the classic answer to that is that "GMs who listen to fans become fans"

Not with the Jets. And that's the problem.

The inmates run this asylum. Because of their location and the fact that they have a weak willed insecure owner.

a.) The press informed you after Idzik's firing. You really have no proof that he wasn't in talks with these people long before the firing.

b.) I didn't want him to resign Fitzpatrick. Am I not a fan?

c.) Many fans didn't want Hackenburg.

d.) Franchising Wilkerson, who may be injured, made good sense. Controlling your good players and not losing them for nothing, is really not a move most GMs wouldn't do, regardless of what fans in chatrooms think.

Because many fans want this or that and the Owner/GM/Coach does this or that really doesn't mean that the fans are in charge. The notion is somewhat megalomaniacal. I mean, seriously, this conjecture seems absurd on its face. And, of course, you point to 'evidence' that really is not causative and ignore other evidence that contradicts your opinion. Moreover, the Jets have sucked for 6 straight years. Fans are still coming to the games, nobody's giving up their season tickets at a rate higher than when they were winning. So, you have ZERO evidence on this theory and it's kinda blaming the victim, isn't it?

 

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2 hours ago, phill1c said:

a.) The press informed you after Idzik's firing. You really have no proof that he wasn't in talks with these people long before the firing.

b.) I didn't want him to resign Fitzpatrick. Am I not a fan?

c.) Many fans didn't want Hackenburg.

d.) Franchising Wilkerson, who may be injured, made good sense. Controlling your good players and not losing them for nothing, is really not a move most GMs wouldn't do, regardless of what fans in chatrooms think.

Because many fans want this or that and the Owner/GM/Coach does this or that really doesn't mean that the fans are in charge. The notion is somewhat megalomaniacal. I mean, seriously, this conjecture seems absurd on its face. And, of course, you point to 'evidence' that really is not causative and ignore other evidence that contradicts your opinion. Moreover, the Jets have sucked for 6 straight years. Fans are still coming to the games, nobody's giving up their season tickets at a rate higher than when they were winning. So, you have ZERO evidence on this theory and it's kinda blaming the victim, isn't it?

 

1. True, but with the Jets in those days, there were loose lips. It is a rather safe assumption that we would have found out at the time.

2. I said a majority of fans

3. I thought he was a reach at that point. Have said that for the whole time. But then again, most Cowboys fans probably said meh to Prescott, so....

4. Maccagnan did exactly what you said. He just did it a different way.

It's not meglomaniacal. It's psychology. Jets fans are a minority with no set place to be. They are secondary to the Giants. So they scream louder in order to be heard. The Jets are a team without a country.

And I believe that over time, fans create a culture of losing because they aren't willing to take any chances and want the magic spell. When they dont get it, they throw what they have away and look for something else.

There were people on here criticizing Petty after one game. "Oh he sucks. Onto the next guy."  Francessa has said this whole organization has this premise and I believe the fanbase has this premise. So if they are not affecting each other, they are certainly in lockstep with their processes.

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On December 1, 2016 at 3:43 PM, NoBowles said:

If Rex did not luck out and face the Patriots 3rd string rookie QB, they would be under .500 right now and everyone would be talking about who the next coach for the Bills is. They have much more talent than the Jets do, and the Jets have as many key injuries as they do. The Jets are not a talented team, Rex and Bowles both suck as coaches.

And if the Watkins, McCoy, (Karlos) Williams, Woods, Dareus, etc. didn't miss significant time, the Bills would have even more wins than they have now.  Rex has done a very good job this year.

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11 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

And if the Watkins, McCoy, (Karlos) Williams, Woods, Dareus, etc. didn't miss significant time, the Bills would have even more wins than they have now.  Rex has done a very good job this year.

Oh Please, Rex is a loud mouthed, clown version of Jeff Fisher, and probably not even as good as Jeff Fisher. He is an ass hat with legs and arms

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Rex has done the best coaching job of his career this year.  Not the best time to pick on rexy.

Just looked it up, Bills opponents record:

6-5 L

3-8 L

4-6-1 W

9-2 W (WITH 3rd string QB)

4-7 W

1-10 W

7-4 L

9-2 L

7-3-1 L

3-7-1 W

2-9 W

 

So they are 6-5, their wins are against teams with 23-41-1 Record including Pats with 3rd string QB

Take out that 9-2 and it becomes 14-39-1

Their 5 Losses are against a 32-22-1

Yes, PHENOMENAL JOB by Rex, of the typical Rex variety, the only way that loud mouth a$$hole does anything good is when the seas part and the planets align.

 

 

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