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So Does Penn State's Success Mean That Hackenberg Sucks?


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42 minutes ago, Maxman said:

@Scott Dierking Penn State the team aside, can you chime in on the original premise of this thread. Curious to hear what you think about Hackenberg. I honestly don't know what to think about him....hoping for the best.

I can only comment on what I saw and what I perceived to be the problems with Hackenberg at PSU. Much of this has been covered in the multiple threads. I will keep this to points  that will hopefully be concise. 

-Coming out of HS, Hackenberg was considered one of the top, if not the top "pro style qb's" of his senior class. 

-He committed because of Bill Obrien, new at the PSU staff, after the Sandusky mess. This was the first PSU season after that. Sanctions had not yet hit.

-That summer, the sanctions hit, and they hit hard as we all know Players were given the option of transferring to other schools, without losing any years of eligibility (they could play right away).

-Hackenberg stayed steadfast to his commitment. I mention all of this only to give insight to his character, which I think is a part of a qb make-up. It would have been easier for him to jump ship.

-Hackenberg was not given the qb spot as a freshman. he earned it. O'Brien did not water down his playbook. he fed the kid threw a firehose. And Hackenberg responded. He had a tremendous freshman season, and in several games created comebacks that required big heroics in game ending situations. Most notable was the Wisconsin game, where PSU was a 20+ point underdog. Check the box for ability to lead a team in the clutch

-Then, Obrien left and Franklin was put in charge. More notably John Donovan was placed in charge of the offense. The best way that I can describe Donovan's offense, was that it held a huge tilt toward jet sweeps and wide receiver screens. That was the basis of the offense that he intended to use his athletic WRs (albeit they were very young and raw). One other notable absence from Hackenberg's was the departure of Allen Robinson. Robinson and Hackenberg developed an immediate bond and a sense what the other was doing.

-PSU had some talented TE's during Hack's sophomore year, as well I mention the raw WR's coming in. Hack never seemed to develop a "go-to" guy among that group, as they just just this year started to come into their own.

-As is noted by others here, the state of PSU's o-line disintegrated due to sanctions. So, one can start to understand why Donovan was trying quick read pass plays. But these do not fit Hack's gifts. 

-Hack also became "skittish" in that pocket that was supposed to be there. He saw ghosts. He took a beating, and just does not have the foot speed, nor great pocket recognition to avoid a constant rush. You could see the kid was frustrated with himself and the offense. That is a strike against him. He seems to dwell on failure, and this hinders him. His confidence is shaken.

-Still, there were glimmers of a leader and someone that can put a team on his shoulder. There were late game heroics against Rutgers, and BC in the Pinstripe bowl. In those spots he seemed to shake everything else off and just decided to play the game. In those spots, his passes were pinpoint on target and he looked like a pro style qb.

-his toolset as a qb is not questioned. He is the classic strong-armed qb, that when he is going well, looks like a potential all pro. And pro evaluators labeled him as such after his freshman year.

-That talent does not go away, but you have to worry whether he can overcome the other things. His mechanics and footwork need refining. He needs to get rid of the ghosts and self doubt in his head. He needs a coach that believes in him, and nurtures him. He is the epitome of a project. You have to realize that this is his senior year. He would have been better off playing, but he did not fit PSU's new style. 

-I gave you nothing here, other than what others have already given. But, we all have to realize the raw skills are there that make evaluators at the position drool. but can they be harnessed correctly? It is ok to hope for the best, but we do not know what is going on behind the scenes. Next training camp and pre-season will be his time to prove it. 

He is a kid whom you can like, and we should all be rooting for him, even if it is done blindly

 

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20 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

So the other teams gave those opportunities to them, unfettered?

Explain luck? Can it also be determined that PSU made those plays because of talent and preparation? THAT is NOT luck.

There were no coinflips with PSU. 

Maybe you misuderstand luck.

No, it was luck.  Always is at PSU.

 

 

 

 

GBR.

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On 12/4/2016 at 2:29 PM, Jet in PA said:

Penn State's O line is much better than last year. Franklin also was trying to pound a square peg in a round hole with the scheme he was trying to run on offense. This year he has a new coordinator that is complimenting the mobile QB he has now but the last two years he tried that kind of a spread system with Hack and he's just not that guy. That probably made Hack and PSU look worse than it was and probably stunted his growth as opposed to Obrien staying. Mcsorely's and PSU's success probably has more to do with scheme fit than it does with overall talent.

Well thank God for that. I am sure that was Mac's mindset when he drafted him over the likes of Dak Prescott and Jacoby Brissett.

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6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hack also became "skittish" in that pocket that was supposed to be there. He saw ghosts. He took a beating, and just does not have the foot speed, nor great pocket recognition to avoid a constant rush. You could see the kid was frustrated with himself and the offense. That is a strike against him. He seems to dwell on failure, and this hinders him. His confidence is shaken.

That sounds ominous, because with the Jets offensive line Hack is going to be under constant pressure. Sanchez lost his confidence in year three after Rex took away his "go-to" guys - Braylon Edwards and Jerricho Cotchery - and his o-line broke down. Sound like a familiar scenario? Jets better bolster the line if they want Hack or Petty to have any kind of success.

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On 12/5/2016 at 3:32 PM, UnitedWhofans said:

I think Petty will be cut if/when they draft another QB in this draft.

No he won't ... and if we draft another qb it will be a late round qb that will sit on the PS for a year. I hope they lose every game next year to get a real QB... but thats a pipe dream and this is the Jets... the chance that we can suck when there is legit QB talent in the draft is slim to none.

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28 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I can only comment on what I saw and what I perceived to be the problems with Hackenberg at PSU. Much of this has been covered in the multiple threads. I will keep this to points  that will hopefully be concise. 

-Coming out of HS, Hackenberg was considered one of the top, if not the top "pro style qb's" of his senior class. 

-He committed because of Bill Obrien, new at the PSU staff, after the Sandusky mess. This was the first PSU season after that. Sanctions had not yet hit.

-That summer, the sanctions hit, and they hit hard as we all know Players were given the option of transferring to other schools, without losing any years of eligibility (they could play right away).

-Hackenberg stayed steadfast to his commitment. I mention all of this only to give insight to his character, which I think is a part of a qb make-up. It would have been easier for him to jump ship.

-Hackenberg was not given the qb spot as a freshman. he earned it. O'Brien did not water down his playbook. he fed the kid threw a firehose. And Hackenberg responded. He had a tremendous freshman season, and in several games created comebacks that required big heroics in game ending situations. Most notable was the Wisconsin game, where PSU was a 20+ point underdog. Check the box for ability to lead a team in the clutch

-Then, Obrien left and Franklin was put in charge. More notably John Donovan was placed in charge of the offense. The best way that I can describe Donovan's offense, was that it held a huge tilt toward jet sweeps and wide receiver screens. That was the basis of the offense that he intended to use his athletic WRs (albeit they were very young and raw). One other notable absence from Hackenberg's was the departure of Allen Robinson. Robinson and Hackenberg developed an immediate bond and a sense what the other was doing.

-PSU had some talented TE's during Hack's sophomore year, as well I mention the raw WR's coming in. Hack never seemed to develop a "go-to" guy among that group, as they just just this year started to come into their own.

-As is noted by others here, the state of PSU's o-line disintegrated due to sanctions. So, one can start to understand why Donovan was trying quick read pass plays. But these do not fit Hack's gifts. 

-Hack also became "skittish" in that pocket that was supposed to be there. He saw ghosts. He took a beating, and just does not have the foot speed, nor great pocket recognition to avoid a constant rush. You could see the kid was frustrated with himself and the offense. That is a strike against him. He seems to dwell on failure, and this hinders him. His confidence is shaken.

-Still, there were glimmers of a leader and someone that can put a team on his shoulder. There were late game heroics against Rutgers, and BC in the Pinstripe bowl. In those spots he seemed to shake everything else off and just decided to play the game. In those spots, his passes were pinpoint on target and he looked like a pro style qb.

-his toolset as a qb is not questioned. He is the classic strong-armed qb, that when he is going well, looks like a potential all pro. And pro evaluators labeled him as such after his freshman year.

-That talent does not go away, but you have to worry whether he can overcome the other things. His mechanics and footwork need refining. He needs to get rid of the ghosts and self doubt in his head. He needs a coach that believes in him, and nurtures him. He is the epitome of a project. You have to realize that this is his senior year. He would have been better off playing, but he did not fit PSU's new style. 

-I gave you nothing here, other than what others have already given. But, we all have to realize the raw skills are there that make evaluators at the position drool. but can they be harnessed correctly? It is ok to hope for the best, but we do not know what is going on behind the scenes. Next training camp and pre-season will be his time to prove it. 

He is a kid whom you can like, and we should all be rooting for him, even if it is done blindly

 

This is why we cannot expect him to even touch the field next year either... If he does.... Then there would have been some major grown in the off-season. You cannot throw a project like him into the wolves yet... He has to get his head right. Whether you can understand that or not is up to you. This has potential to be a great pick but I am not holding my breath. I say that we take Fournette this draft and as many CB, LB, OL as we can get... get rid of most of the aging veterans... Let Petty start next year... hopefully lose every game and draft Darnold. This way we have a back-up in case Hack doesn't get his head right.

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he sucks something awful but if you want to pump him up have at it

he is our next browning nagle -will never amount to anything

the only time  he looked okay at PSU was the result of having a pro bowl WR at his disposal

he holds the ball too long, is wildly inaccurrate and will be a turn over machine

the same guys that thought fitz was the answer are pumping up this hot garbage and that is what he is hot garbage

I dont need to see him play in the pros-I watched most of his college games at psu

we have 4 qbs on the team and they all suck -thanks to our gms and our lousy coach

 

 

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45 minutes ago, kmnj said:

he sucks something awful but if you want to pump him up have at it

he is our next browning nagle -will never amount to anything

the only time  he looked okay at PSU was the result of having a pro bowl WR at his disposal

he holds the ball too long, is wildly inaccurrate and will be a turn over machine

the same guys that thought fitz was the answer are pumping up this hot garbage and that is what he is hot garbage

I dont need to see him play in the pros-I watched most of his college games at psu

we have 4 qbs on the team and they all suck -thanks to our gms and our lousy coach

 

 

Actually the bolded line is the only part of your post that is not accurate at all.   It's the total opposite for the most part.  The rest I totally agree with.  The only thing he is going to do is take up a spot and perhaps prevent us from going after other legit Qb prospects.

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1 hour ago, kmnj said:

he sucks something awful but if you want to pump him up have at it

he is our next browning nagle -will never amount to anything

the only time  he looked okay at PSU was the result of having a pro bowl WR at his disposal

he holds the ball too long, is wildly inaccurrate and will be a turn over machine

the same guys that thought fitz was the answer are pumping up this hot garbage and that is what he is hot garbage

I dont need to see him play in the pros-I watched most of his college games at psu

we have 4 qbs on the team and they all suck -thanks to our gms and our lousy coach

 

 

I'm a Hack fan, never a Fitz fan

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000752940/article/pederson-eagles-working-to-fix-wentzs-mechanics

Article on NFL.com talking about Pedersen and the Eagles working on Wentzs mechanics this year,,,,,,yeah, while he is playing....how novel.

 

Wentz was not gun shy and a project... Hack was always a project...

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5 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Wentz was not gun shy and a project... Hack was always a project...

Yup, and the jets are not working with the project at all his first year to correct his problems, he is 'learning the playbook'

Hey I hated the pick from the moment I saw it but okay, the team thinks he has promise.  Then they appear to have zero plan to actually get the guy better for next year other than to say 'he's red shirting, we will evaluate him next year.

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22 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

No one, except the Jets staff has seen Hack throw a meaningful pass in a year now.

For anyone here to claim what he is now, or what he will be is mere speculation. 

There is talent there that is prototypical, but there are flaws.  What can this staff create? 

the same coaching staff that liked Fitz? the same coaching staff that said Petty is no where near ready to play but is light years ahead of hack?

his game is one big flaw-I assume you did not watch him play his last years at PSU-do yourself a favor and watch them online-he is beyond awful-and those flaws that were seen in college will be shining through as bright as the sun in the NFL

he sucks and should never have been drafted and the Jets of all teams are the last team in the world that needs another project at QB

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, kmnj said:

the same coaching staff that liked Fitz? the same coaching staff that said Petty is no where near ready to play but is light years ahead of hack?

his game is one big flaw-I assume you did not watch him play his last years at PSU-do yourself a favor and watch them online-he is beyond awful-and those flaws that were seen in college will be shining through as bright as the sun in the NFL

he sucks and should never have been drafted and the Jets of all teams are the last team in the world that needs another project at QB

 

 

 

Your assumption would be wrong, as I watched every minute of every Hackenberg game.

There is talent there. Whether it can be harvested is the true question.

 

 

 

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Hackenberg throws Franklin under the bus for his performance drop off... Franklin goes on to win the Big10 and today is named coach of the year... Hackenberg goes on to heroically step into the role of 3rd string QB when Geno Smith goes out with an injury.

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22 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Hackenberg throws Franklin under the bus for his performance drop off... Franklin goes on to win the Big10 and today is named coach of the year... Hackenberg goes on to heroically step into the role of 3rd string QB when Geno Smith goes out with an injury.

This isn't even hyperbole- Hackenberg struggles to throw a spiral. He's got baby hands.

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PSU's success has zero to do with Hack. College football is an entirely different species. Hackenburg not even being good enough to dress means Hackenberg likely sucks. And what's concerning is we seem to be putting all our eggs in the Hack basket.


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12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000752940/article/pederson-eagles-working-to-fix-wentzs-mechanics

Article on NFL.com talking about Pedersen and the Eagles working on Wentzs mechanics this year,,,,,,yeah, while he is playing....how novel.

 

Wow, you complaining about Hackenberg....again.  

Comparing him to others as if it's relevant.  

How novel.

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5 hours ago, gEYno said:

Hackenberg throws Franklin under the bus for his performance drop off... Franklin goes on to win the Big10 and today is named coach of the year... Hackenberg goes on to heroically step into the role of 3rd string QB when Geno Smith goes out with an injury.

No one was thrown under the bus.

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12 hours ago, gEYno said:

Hackenberg throws Franklin under the bus for his performance drop off... Franklin goes on to win the Big10 and today is named coach of the year... Hackenberg goes on to heroically step into the role of 3rd string QB when Geno Smith goes out with an injury.

John Donovan (offensive coordinator) was thrown under the bus, and with good reason. Joe Moorhead has been an enlightenment at the position this year. He will draw major college attention (he did interview at Purdue) with more performances like this year.

How the PSU offense was run was a complete 180 from last year. The maturity of Saquon Barkley also gave a weapon that Hackenberg never had.

To compare PSU's performance from this year to last year and say it is on the qb position, would be very lazy analysis. 

This doesn't make Hackenberg an all-pro, just lazy analysis.

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9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Wow, you complaining about Hackenberg....again.  

Comparing him to others as if it's relevant.  

How novel.

Yeah he is a unique snow flake among QBs no doubt about that.  Also dumbass if you looked at the article I was complaining that the Jets are doing nothing to further Hackenburgs development this year.  this is going to be a lost year for him other than learning the play book,.

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah he is a unique snow flake among QBs no doubt about that.  Also dumbass if you looked at the article I was complaining that the Jets are doing nothing to further Hackenburgs development this year.  this is going to be a lost year for him other than learning the play book,.

You realize first you say he was over drafted.  Now youre comparing him and what he should be, what he should be able to do by comparing him to what many thought was the number 1 QB of the same draft class is doing.  Unique snowflake or just talking out of your ass again whichever way makes one of your negative arguments.  Is he late round talent or is he a top pick?  Why would anyone treat them the same way?  

You have not one single clue what anyone is or isnt doing to help develop him.  Wont stop you from shooting your mouth off and complaining though.  But we're all dumbasses while you are the QB whisperer. 

 

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On 12/7/2016 at 6:07 AM, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, so Ohio State did not get "luck" in the Michigan game? Intercepting 2 ill advised passes? Getting a PI call on a ball that was clearly uncatchable? Getting a spot call on 4th down?

You have reached here.

You compared the PSU season to the Jets last year, and where the Jets got "lucky", was that they did not play quality opponents. Not the case with Penn State. Teams make their own luck in games that they win, unless things are given to them. You have not shown where PSU was given anything. 

 

Intercepted passes happen much more frequently though.  The Ohio State-Michigan game came down to the 4th down play, and they converted.  It wasn't like Michigan was kicking the FG and Ohio State blocked it and ran it the other way for the win. 

Are you saying teams like the Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue were quality opponents?  

In the games where they played teams that did well this year:

Pitt (finished 8-4):  Lost

Temple:  Won by a TD

Michigan:  Loss (Big)

Minnesota:  Won by 3

Ohio State: Won by 3

Iowa:  Won (Big)

Wisconsin: Won by TD

In games decided by one score or less, they were 4-1, or a winning percentage of 80%, which isn't ordinary.  

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/best-and-worst-college-football-coaches-in-close-games-entering-2016/

You can read about how Michigan State fared last year, 6-1 in one score games including a blocked FG against Michigan.  How did they do this year?  

Look, I'm not saying Penn State is terrible or that they should be disbanded.  However, they were lucky this year and got a few breaks, which is how they ended up where they were.  I'll say the same thing about Clemson as well.  

 

 

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not sure if this has been stated but if Hackenberg does not take his first snap till opening day 2018, he will be 23 years old. The same year a lot of redshirt seniors will be entering the draft. not sure how much potential is there, but there is definitely a lot of time to develop or reach that potential.

for comparison sake, Petty is 25 as a 2nd year pro.

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