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Just now, Scott Dierking said:

That stunt last summer was pretty much a ticket out of town.

And 2nd only to him crying to anyone that would listen when they finally threw Adam LaRoche's little kid out of the locker room after being there every day with his own locker.

"He was like a coach to us" lamented Sale. What a dildo. 

Not a Sox fan but just glad to have him outta here.

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16 minutes ago, NJ said:

And 2nd only to him crying to anyone that would listen when they finally threw Adam LaRoche's little kid out of the locker room after being there every day with his own locker.

"He was like a coach to us" lamented Sale. What a dildo. 

Not a Sox fan but just glad to have him outta here.

Forgot about that too. Pretty childish and not his place

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5 hours ago, NJ said:

Good - the kid is a jerk-off and locker room cancer.

5 hours ago, NJ said:

And 2nd only to him crying to anyone that would listen when they finally threw Adam LaRoche's little kid out of the locker room after being there every day with his own locker.

"He was like a coach to us" lamented Sale. What a dildo. 

Not a Sox fan but just glad to have him outta here.

What in the effing hell are you talking about?

The team, not just Sale, threatened to boycott a game.  He was showing support for Laroche.  How exactly is that a locker room cancer

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1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

What in the effing hell are you talking about?

The team, not just Sale, threatened to boycott a game.  He was showing support for Laroche.  How exactly is that a locker room cancer

Go read about it somewhere - I heard about it every day here.

A few of the guys didn't mind it but most of them though it was ridiculous having that kid in the dugout - and it was. 

And cutting up his throwback jersey because he didn't want to wear it was was showing hi-grade leadership 

I'm glad you're happy with him  - enjoy it 

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9 hours ago, NJ said:

Go read about it somewhere - I heard about it every day here.

A few of the guys didn't mind it but most of them though it was ridiculous having that kid in the dugout - and it was. 

And cutting up his throwback jersey because he didn't want to wear it was was showing hi-grade leadership 

I'm glad you're happy with him  - enjoy it 

I do not doubt some people were probably tired of it.  It is a work environment.  It is never going to be 100% popcorn, unicorns and candy.  However, enough of them were willing to boycott a game when Williams over ruled the GM and Manager.  Sale was not some zealot championing Laroche's plight.

As far as the uniform thing, if your star pitcher does not want to wear an ill fitting uniform on the day he pitches, choose another day for it.  As Rosenthal said at the time, it is a common courtesy teams afford their aces by letting them dictate what they wear when they pitch.  If he does not want to wear and is told he does not have to and then is told he is going to.  That is not a Sale issue.  There is a disconnect between the teram and front office.

The White Sox were justified to suspend him.  However, saying he is a locker room cancer is ridiculous.

ANd I am going to enjoy him pitching for the Sox.  A legit ace at the top of the rotation.  Yes, please.

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6 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

I do not doubt some people were probably tired of it.  It is a work environment.  It is never going to be 100% popcorn, unicorns and candy.  However, enough of them were willing to boycott a game when Williams over ruled the GM and Manager.  Sale was not some zealot championing Laroche's plight.

As far as the uniform thing, if your star pitcher does not want to wear an ill fitting uniform on the day he pitches, choose another day for it.  As Rosenthal said at the time, it is a common courtesy teams afford their aces by letting them dictate what they wear when they pitch.  If he does not want to wear and is told he does not have to and then is told he is going to.  That is not a Sale issue.  There is a disconnect between the teram and front office.

The White Sox were justified to suspend him.  However, saying he is a locker room cancer is ridiculous.

ANd I am going to enjoy him pitching for the Sox.  A legit ace at the top of the rotation.  Yes, please.

Shredding the uniforms did not seem to be the most sane, and team friendly thing to do. Normal people, nonetheless leaders do not normally go the childish tantrum route.

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Shredding the uniforms did not seem to be the most sane, and team friendly thing to do. Normal people, nonetheless leaders do not normally go the childish tantrum route.

Who are the leaders in that clubhouse though? You think Dustin Pedroia is going to put up with anything like that?

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23 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Shredding the uniforms did not seem to be the most sane, and team friendly thing to do. Normal people, nonetheless leaders do not normally go the childish tantrum route.

Outside of the two incidents last year, what other incidents are there?  He got in to a brawl at a game in KC, but that is hardly unique to him.

I think there is an issue between management and the club house.  Management overruled the manager on the Laroche thing.  Sale then claimed management was more interested in uniform sales then winning when they overruled the the team again what uniform they were going to wear.  He sort of threw Ventura under the bus when he alluded to the fact the manager should go to bat for the team when it comes to what uniforms the team will wear.

Could he have handled it better?  Yes.  However, if he feels the executive management do not care and the manager is not going to go for bat for him, maybe he felt that was his only option.  Again, I am looking forward to a star pitcher with a pulse. 

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17 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

Outside of the two incidents last year, what other incidents are there?  He got in to a brawl at a game in KC, but that is hardly unique to him.

I think there is an issue between management and the club house.  Management overruled the manager on the Laroche thing.  Sale then claimed management was more interested in uniform sales then winning when they overruled the the team again what uniform they were going to wear.  He sort of threw Ventura under the bus when he alluded to the fact the manager should go to bat for the team when it comes to what uniforms the team will wear.

Could he have handled it better?  Yes.  However, if he feels the executive management do not care and the manager is not going to go for bat for him, maybe he felt that was his only option.  Again, I am looking forward to a star pitcher with a pulse. 

All that I am saying is that temper tantrums and impulsive behavior that lead to the destruction of property that does not belong to you signify a probable lack of mature emotional control. That is all.

He is obviously a very talented player. But there appear to be some less than stable impulses laying beneath.

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7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

All that I am saying is that temper tantrums and impulsive behavior that lead to the destruction of property that does not belong to you signify a probable lack of mature emotional control. That is all.

He is obviously a very talented player. But there appear to be some less than stable impulses laying beneath.

And as long as he is performing, then it will not be an issue.  All the tantrums Big Papi threw were fine so long as he was hitting 30 HRs a year.

Once pain in the assedness out weights performance, then it is a different matter altogether.

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8 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

And as long as he is performing, then it will not be an issue.  All the tantrums Big Papi threw were fine so long as he was hitting 30 HRs a year.

Once pain in the assedness out weights performance, then it is a different matter altogether.

That is certainly the pollyannaish way of looking at it

 

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2 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

Management overruled the manager on the Laroche thing. 

Sale's reaction to the situation shows he's a fool. Everyone gets to have a locker for their 14 year old kid and they get to dress in a Sox uni and practice on the field with them EVERY day - right? Better yet they get to hang in the locker room so everyone can watch everything that comes out of their mouths - there's nothing uncomfortable or unfair about that for your team mates right?

Funny - but the other idiot that was vocal about the situation got dealt to the Nationals yesterday.

Here's what a beat writer had to say:

The utter lack of perspective from Chris Sale. After the White Sox reportedly "almost" boycotted a spring training game, reports surfaced that Sale -- one of the Sox's top two players -- screamed at Williams. He reportedly told Williams to stay out of the clubhouse because that's the players' domain.

Um, Chris, Williams is the club president. He's your boss. He can make clubhouse rules if he wants. Here's Yankees boss Brian Cashman on the matter, via Newsday:

“The entire facility is our facility, and we control it,” Cashman said. “We control the rules governing the facility. And that’s the policy. There’s definitely no part of a workplace that’s owned by the players, above the company. It’s the New York Yankees’ clubhouse, the New York Yankees’ training room, the New York Yankees’ dugout, the New York Yankees’ field. We dictate the access.”

Now, circle back to my comments about star treatment above. Sale can get away with screaming at his boss because he's a superstar. I'm also not going to do that "just imagine if you screamed at your boss" thing because MLB is different. These facts do not mean that Sale is right, though. Far from it. He's totally misguided here. Williams had a situation where there were complaints and he, as the boss, addressed it. He obviously did a terrible job in communicating the situation properly (we're getting to that), but Sale's reaction was over the top. 

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On 12/8/2016 at 7:34 AM, Scott Dierking said:

That is certainly the pollyannaish way of looking at it

 

So?  You mean to tell me you love 100% of all Mets' players actions?  I doubt it.

Whether it is a player (Sale, Manny, Big Papi, Gronk) or a Coach (Belichick), fans/management are a lot more tolerant of non-normative behavior.

 

On 12/8/2016 at 8:40 AM, NJ said:

Sale's reaction to the situation shows he's a fool. Everyone gets to have a locker for their 14 year old kid and they get to dress in a Sox uni and practice on the field with them EVERY day - right? Better yet they get to hang in the locker room so everyone can watch everything that comes out of their mouths - there's nothing uncomfortable or unfair about that for your team mates right?

Funny - but the other idiot that was vocal about the situation got dealt to the Nationals yesterday.

Here's what a beat writer had to say:

The utter lack of perspective from Chris Sale. After the White Sox reportedly "almost" boycotted a spring training game, reports surfaced that Sale -- one of the Sox's top two players -- screamed at Williams. He reportedly told Williams to stay out of the clubhouse because that's the players' domain.

Um, Chris, Williams is the club president. He's your boss. He can make clubhouse rules if he wants. Here's Yankees boss Brian Cashman on the matter, via Newsday:

“The entire facility is our facility, and we control it,” Cashman said. “We control the rules governing the facility. And that’s the policy. There’s definitely no part of a workplace that’s owned by the players, above the company. It’s the New York Yankees’ clubhouse, the New York Yankees’ training room, the New York Yankees’ dugout, the New York Yankees’ field. We dictate the access.”

Now, circle back to my comments about star treatment above. Sale can get away with screaming at his boss because he's a superstar. I'm also not going to do that "just imagine if you screamed at your boss" thing because MLB is different. These facts do not mean that Sale is right, though. Far from it. He's totally misguided here. Williams had a situation where there were complaints and he, as the boss, addressed it. He obviously did a terrible job in communicating the situation properly (we're getting to that), but Sale's reaction was over the top. 

As I said previously, there is no way 100% of the club house wanted his kid there.  That is not my point.

I think Williams is to Sox Owner(s) what Goodell is to the NFL Owners.  He is a shield for them.  Using the Yankees as an example, they set a standard that players who sign with them live by (shaving facial hair, etc.). 

It does not look like the White Sox had any standards.  Laroche had his kid in the clubhouse for over a year.  Seeing it was well known Laroche's kid was with him everyday when he signed, then that is not a Laroche or Sale problem.  It is the manager and executives.  When the streak his kid was there reached double digits, someone should have said something to him.

Again, Sale went overboard, but the management had a hand in that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 minute ago, PFSIKH said:

I liked Clay.  I hope he fully realizes his potential even if it is for one season.

Same. He had his ups and downs and bouts with injuries, but seemed like a good dude who just couldn't get out of his own head. That said, I think they could have gotten more for him. I realize it's a salary dump, but jeez.

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On 12/20/2016 at 1:14 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

Same. He had his ups and downs and bouts with injuries, but seemed like a good dude who just couldn't get out of his own head. That said, I think they could have gotten more for him. I realize it's a salary dump, but jeez.

I don't know about that.

Maybe, if they tried to dump him after 2015 when he was coming off an okay season.  Now,  he is 32 with a 23-28 record and an ERA well over 4 his last three years.

If he was someone you could pencil in for 32 starts and 200 innings I would be in complete agreement.  He has never done that.

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8 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

I don't know about that.

Maybe, if they tried to dump him after 2015 when he was coming off an okay season.  Now,  he is 32 with a 23-28 record and an ERA well over 4 his last three years.

If he was someone you could pencil in for 32 starts and 200 innings I would be in complete agreement.  He has never done that.

Think of it this way: if the Sox need a starter at the deadline because of injury or ineffective pitching, are they giving up more for someone than the guy they just got for someone any better than Buchholz? I doubt that. Dombroski is either winning a championship this season or next or he's gone and he's gutted the farm system. 

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  • 3 months later...
On 12/22/2016 at 6:35 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

Think of it this way: if the Sox need a starter at the deadline because of injury or ineffective pitching, are they giving up more for someone than the guy they just got for someone any better than Buchholz? I doubt that. Dombroski is either winning a championship this season or next or he's gone and he's gutted the farm system. 

Jinx.

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On 4/17/2017 at 6:54 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

My logic was sound. Still is. Sad that Clay is donezo. 

Still is.  Tough getting a read on this team.  Sale looks worth it.

Yeah, Clay news is tough.  I liked him, but damn he cannot stay healthy.

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