The GM bashers need some insight.....

[ASH1962]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I don't think it's alarming that we took a step back this year under Bowles, I think it is alarming how many steps we took back and the way we did it.  I don't want to fire Bowles, hee has some good qualities to be a good HC but he has a lot of work to do.

Please enlighten us on his good qualities. I am dying to find one myself and have not been able to after 2 years.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

I agree as well. But my argument would be more focused on the good things Macc did rather than how poor the previous GMs were. And he did a lot of good. 

I saw one poster say Macc can't draft- specifying that the players taken are not making an impact. Well lets look at last years draft picks AFTER the Jets selected Lee to the Jets selection of Hackenberg in Rd. 2. 

How many of these guys are making a major impact? Nobody really stands out. Ifedi is a starter for the Seahawks, but their O-line has struggled to protect Wilson all year. Burns has had some moments for the Steelers. Shepherd has been a nice option for Eli in NY. But nobody stands out. It takes time for guys to get acclimated to the NFL, find their roles and make a positive impact on the team. You can argue Lee has had the biggest impact out of any of these guys, when healthy. 

I think Macc has done a very nice job of drafting. Particularly finding guys in the later rounds that can contribute and signing UFA rookies that show a lot of promise. J.Marshall, R.Anderson, Peake, L.Edwards, Simon. And if you consider the 4th round as a 'later round', you can add Petty and Burris to that list- both guys will have a chance to start next season.

Macc was also very smart in the way he signed FAs. Sure, he spent a lot of money on some players. Some of those guys have had off years. Some did not quite work out the way he wanted. But let's look at some of those guys. Revis- had a great year last season, despite some nagging injuries. This year he fell off a cliff. But the financial commitment to Revis is not as bad as it may seem for a player of caliber. He was one of the top CBs in the league when MAcc signed him, coming off a SB win. If the Jets cut him this offseason they save a ton of cap space but have to eat 6mil in guarantees. But if cut him NEXT offseason, there is no dead money. So Macc was off by a season. But he did that in large part because Richardson is a FA in 2018. Despite the fact that they may trade Richardson, this was a carefully calculated move. Marshall's cap hit is ZERO if we cut him this offseason. Skrine and Gilchrist are also guys that the Jets can decide to move on from in 2018 without much of a cap hit. The only guy Macc really committed to was Wilk. And I till believe the jury is out on that deal. I look at Wilkerson, the way he played his whole career and compare that to the Wilk I saw this year and it's like two completely different players. He is not the type of guy to sign a fat contract and slack off. The injury has obviously affected him. He will have a bounce back season next year.  

So my point is, Macc can scout and is smart when drafting. Macc is shrewd when making trades and has yet to 'lose' in a trade. And Macc does not commit long term to players he is unsure about. In fact, despite their performances this year. Wilk and Revis are as sure as it gets as far as players you want to invest in. We are talking about a future HOF'er and a NJ native, Jet stalwart, drafted by the Jets.   

 

Houston Texans	Will Fuller	WR	Notre Dame	Ind. (FBS)	from Washington [R1 - 8]
	1	22	Washington Redskins	Josh Doctson	WR	TCU	Big 12	from Houston [R1 - 9]
	1	23	Minnesota Vikings	Laquon Treadwell	WR	Ole Miss	SEC
	1	24	Cincinnati Bengals	William Jackson III	CB	Houston	The American
	1	25	Pittsburgh Steelers	Artie Burns	CB	Miami (FL)	ACC
	1	26	Denver Broncos	Paxton Lynch	QB	Memphis	The American	from Seattle [R1 - 10]
	1	27	Green Bay Packers	Kenny Clark	DT	UCLA	Pac-12
	1	28	San Francisco 49ers	Joshua Garnett	G	Stanford	Pac-12	from Kansas City [R1 - 11]
	1	–	New England Patriots	Selection forfeited as a result of the Deflategate scandal[Forfeited 1]
	1	29	Arizona Cardinals	Robert Nkemdiche	DT	Ole Miss	SEC
	1	30	Carolina Panthers	Vernon Butler	DT	Louisiana Tech	C-USA
	1	31	Seattle Seahawks	Germain Ifedi	OT	Texas A&M	SEC	from Denver [R1 - 12]
	2	32	Cleveland Browns	Emmanuel Ogbah	DE	Oklahoma State	Big 12
	2	33	Tennessee Titans	Kevin Dodd	OLB	Clemson	ACC
	2	34	Dallas Cowboys	Jaylon Smith	OLB	Notre Dame	Ind. (FBS)
	2	35	San Diego Chargers	Hunter Henry	TE	Arkansas	SEC
	2	36	Jacksonville Jaguars	Myles Jack	OLB	UCLA	Pac-12	from Baltimore [R2 - 1]
	2	37	Kansas City Chiefs	Chris Jones	DT	Mississippi State	SEC	from San Francisco [R2 - 2]
	2	38	Miami Dolphins	Xavien Howard	CB	Baylor	Big 12	from Jacksonville via Baltimore [R2 - 3]
	2	39	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Noah Spence	DE	Eastern Kentucky	OVC
	2	40	New York Giants	Sterling Shepard	WR	Oklahoma	Big 12
	2	41	Buffalo Bills	Reggie Ragland	ILB	Alabama	SEC	from Chicago [R2 - 4]
	2	42	Baltimore Ravens	Kamalei Correa	LB	Boise State	MW	from Miami [R2 - 5]
	2	43	Tennessee Titans	Austin Johnson	DT	Penn State	Big Ten	from Philadelphia via Los Angeles [R2 - 6]
	2	44	Oakland Raiders	Jihad Ward	DE	Illinois	Big Ten
	2	45	Tennessee Titans	Derrick Henry	RB	Alabama	SEC	from Los Angeles [R2 - 7] 2015 Heisman Trophy winner
	2	46	Detroit Lions	A'Shawn Robinson	DT	Alabama	SEC
	2	47	New Orleans Saints	Michael Thomas	WR	Ohio State	Big Ten
	2	48	Green Bay Packers	Jason Spriggs	OT	Indiana	Big Ten	from Indianapolis [R2 - 8]
	2	49	Seattle Seahawks	Jarran Reed	DT	Alabama	SEC	from Buffalo via Chicago [R2 - 9]
	2	50	Houston Texans	Nick Martin	C	Notre Dame

Seriously?  Michael Thomas has 7 TDs and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards.  That doesn't "stand out" to you?  Hunter Henry personally won me 2 weeks of fantasy football and scored 3 weeks in a row before getting a concussion and tailing off for a bit.  Noah Spence has 5.5 sacks playing through a dislocated shoulder and torn labrum.  I am all for giving draftees time, but besides Williams who is worth anything from 2015?  Smith seems to be a bad pick.  The hopes Mauldin could step up as a starter this year appear grossly misplaced.  Petty remains a project, but Harrison is gone.   Deon Simon seems like a real good pick for a 7th, but he has been on the street a few times, so it isn't exactly a slam dunk.

I would give them another year, but I have not seen much to make me particularly optimistic and the drafting has been way better than the contracts..  

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Please enlighten us on his good qualities. I am dying to find one myself and have not been able to after 2 years.

someone already asked and I answered it.  I don't love Bowles but I do believe he deserves at least one more year.

[peebag]

Jury still out on Mac.

Bowles needs to go.

[UnitedWhofans]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Seriously?  Michael Thomas has 7 TDs and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards.  That doesn't "stand out" to you?  Hunter Henry personally won me 2 weeks of fantasy football and scored 3 weeks in a row before getting a concussion and tailing off for a bit.  Noah Spence has 5.5 sacks playing through a dislocated shoulder and torn labrum.  I am all for giving draftees time, but besides Williams who is worth anything from 2015?  Smith seems to be a bad pick.  The hopes Mauldin could step up as a starter this year appear grossly misplaced.  Petty remains a project, but Harrison is gone.   Deon Simon seems like a real good pick for a 7th, but he has been on the street a few times, so it isn't exactly a slam dunk.

I would give them another year, but I have not seen much to make me particularly optimistic and the drafting has been way better than the contracts..  

Given the team he plays for, I'm not surprised Michael Thomas is on pace for over 1000 yards. It doesn't really stand out.

The one people were complaining about over drafting Lee was Lynch and now we've seen him play and he doesn't look great first off, meaning he would be bashed in New York immediately.

[ASH1962]

23 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

someone already asked and I answered it.  I don't love Bowles but I do believe he deserves at least one more year.

Normally I would agree that we need continuity, however, this man has shown zero positive attributes which would enable him to succeed as a legitimate NFL head coach. Why do we as fans, as the paying public need to endure another boring, sleepy season of Todd Bowltite and his moribund personality, hideously scared coaching tactics, and declining team performance? This team has regressed so vividly that to me, and I go back as long as you do my friend, there is no chance of this improving as it is. I do want to keep the GM, but the rest of the CS must be replaced 1 minute after we finish 3-13 and for god's sakes, do it right and let the GM pick the head coach based upon his experience, not based upon the cigar smokers crony club.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Given the team he plays for, I'm not surprised Michael Thomas is on pace for over 1000 yards. It doesn't really stand out.

Yet, you are impressed with Darron Lee? 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yet, you are impressed with Darron Lee? 

I'm impressed with his effort and speed. The Jets need more players like that.

MIchael Thomas plays for the Saints. I could get 3 TD catches if I played for the Saints

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I'm impressed with his effort and speed. The Jets need more players like that.

MIchael Thomas plays for the Saints. I could get 3 TD catches if I played for the Saints

Thanks for sharing what team Michael Thomas plays for.  That team is stacked with talent? He leads them in TDs, yards and catches.  Not impressive?  Maybe not, but certainly more impressive to me than a safety sized LB showing effort and "speed"

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for sharing what team Michael Thomas plays for.  That team is stacked with talent? He leads them in TDs, yards and catches.  Not impressive?  Maybe not, but certainly more impressive to me than a safety sized LB showing effort and "speed"

As long as Payton and Brees are still there, a receiver would really have to stand out to be impressive.

Lee's humility is also impressive to me.

[Ken Schroy]

I think Mac is doing OK. IMHO he MAY have made 2 bad 2nd round pics. But he isn't the 1st GM to do that around here. So far, the 2nd round curse continues. Hopefully he is learning from his mistakes.

[Ken Schroy]

Just now, Ken Shroy said:

I think Mac is doing OK. IMHO he MAY have made 2 bad 2nd round pics. But he isn't the 1st GM to do that around here. So far, the 2nd round curse continues. Hopefully he is learning from his possible mistakes.

 

[NoBowles]

Just now, Ken Shroy said:

I think Mac is doing OK. IMHO he MAY have made 2 bad 2nd round pics. But he isn't the 1st GM to do that around here. So far, the 2nd round curse continues. Hopefully he is learning from his mistakes.

At this point in time, its hard to argue it any other way. If Lynch turns out to be a stud, he f'd up as bad as Idzik did.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

At this point in time, its hard to argue it any other way. If Lynch turns out to be a stud, he f'd up as bad as Idzik did.

Well early returns are bad. And given that New York is not patient, that is important

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

2010-2014.  5 NFL drafts with a total of 37 picks.

STARTERS

OFFENSE: 2

1 a 6th round WR (Enunwa)

1 a 3rd round G (Winters)

DEFENSE: 3

2 DT's (Mo and Richardson)

1 average (being generous) S (Pryor)

PLAYERS STILL ON TEAM (Including those starters)

8

But yet Mac was suppose to turn this team into the Patriots in two years (one of which he was Executive of the Year nominated by the Pro Football Writers Association) and now an alarmingly high number of fans want him replaced.

AND the funny thing about it is, we wonder why this team is mired in mediocrity (which, BTW is inaccurate......we have been quite successful for the past decade by NFL standards)

 

 

that's a point well taken. it's time for the jets to use some high draft picks on oline.  the last time was when they drafted brick and mangold. now maybe that was the plan all along but that got derailed when the secondary turned out to be so bad and the qb situation is still in flux.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

that's a point well taken. it's time for the jets to use some high draft picks on oline.  the last time was when they drafted brick and mangold. now maybe that was the plan all along but that got derailed when the secondary turned out to be so bad and the qb situation is still in flux.

Unfortunately this is not the draft to do it

[#27TheDominator]

36 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

someone already asked and I answered it.  I don't love Bowles but I do believe he deserves at least one more year.

I agree.  The problem is, this year feels like Carrol's first year, Mangini's last.  The team is flopping and they seem lost.  I remember that it was supposed to be Club Rex and Bowles was going to have #accountability.  Next year has the potential to be ugly, though at least the GM and coach seem to have seats on the same burners.  That alone makes it better than Rex/Idzik in 2013 and 2014.  

[greenwave81]

I agree. I think the same argument can be made for Bowles too. 

While I can agree the jury is still out on Macc, I cannot agree with this.

Whether it's poor game planning, poor personnel management or the vets having already checked out on the season, all fall on the HC. That and some mind-numbingly bad in game management decisions make me sincerely doubt the HC capacity of Bowles.
JMO

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for sharing what team Michael Thomas plays for.  That team is stacked with talent? He leads them in TDs, yards and catches.  Not impressive?  Maybe not, but certainly more impressive to me than a safety sized LB showing effort and "speed"

People still think the Saints are the same team as half a decade ago.

[ZachEY]

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/06/broncos-mailbag-paxton-lynch-bust/

Broncos Mailbag - Is Paxton Lynch a bust?

Broncos fans are too impatient.  Move the team!

[NoBowles]

Just now, gEYno said:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/06/broncos-mailbag-paxton-lynch-bust/

Broncos Mailbag - Is Paxton Lynch a bust?

Broncos fans are too impatient.  Move the team!

No way in hell is Lynch a bust, I read that the fact that Elway drafted him means he is a sure fire HOF'er, because Elway knows the QB position better than anyone. I will just pretend that he offered Osweiler way too much money, who sucks something awful, and assume that if with the Broncos, Osweiller would be awesome.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

No way in hell is Lynch a bust, I read that the fact that Elway drafted him means he is a sure fire HOF'er, because Elway knows the QB position better than anyone. I will just pretend that he offered Osweiler way too much money, who sucks something awful, and assume that if with the Broncos, Osweiller would be awesome.

Lynch was still probably the right pick for this team.  I'll be curious to see if Hackenberg ever catches Lynch and his 3 games and 2 TDs.

[PepPep]

58 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Seriously?  Michael Thomas has 7 TDs and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards.  That doesn't "stand out" to you?  Hunter Henry personally won me 2 weeks of fantasy football and scored 3 weeks in a row before getting a concussion and tailing off for a bit.  Noah Spence has 5.5 sacks playing through a dislocated shoulder and torn labrum.  I am all for giving draftees time, but besides Williams who is worth anything from 2015?  Smith seems to be a bad pick.  The hopes Mauldin could step up as a starter this year appear grossly misplaced.  Petty remains a project, but Harrison is gone.   Deon Simon seems like a real good pick for a 7th, but he has been on the street a few times, so it isn't exactly a slam dunk.

I would give them another year, but I have not seen much to make me particularly optimistic and the drafting has been way better than the contracts..  

Fair enough. I obviously didn't look up everyones' stats. 

Yes, if Smith and Mauldin end up being busts, it was not a good draft, despite Simon playing well. But if they develop into capable starters, along with the selection of L.Williams, well, then the 2015 draft was really not that bad. We shall see. Injuries are hampering Mauldin and Smith's development.  

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Lynch was still probably the right pick for this team.  I'll be curious to see if Hackenberg ever catches Lynch and his 3 games and 2 TDs.

If they both bust, which is the highest probability, I will take a late 2nd round bust over a late 1st round bust any day of the week. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

If they both bust, which is the highest probability, I will take a late 2nd round bust over a late 1st round bust any day of the week. 

Sure, but that argument extrapolates to never taking a QB early unless he's a Manning/Luck type prospect.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Fair enough. I obviously didn't look up everyones' stats. 

Yes, if Smith and Mauldin end up being busts, it was not a good draft, despite Simon playing well. But if they develop into capable starters, along with the selection of L.Williams, well, then the 2015 draft was really not that bad. We shall see. Injuries are hampering Mauldin and Smith's development.  

Injuries are Smith's development... Did you give Milliner the same benefit of the doubt re: injury?

[NoBowles]

Just now, gEYno said:

Sure, but that argument extrapolates to never taking a QB early unless he's a Manning/Luck type prospect.

Does it? I would think it really extrapolates into scouting ability. If you don't believe a guy is a starting caliber QB, you just can't take him in the 1st round. You have more leeway in the 2nd round IMO.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

Does it? I would think it really extrapolates into scouting ability. If you don't believe a guy is a starting caliber QB, you just can't take him in the 1st round. You have more leeway in the 2nd round IMO.

We've generally accepted the "crapshoot" principle, no?  Teams seem to make stupid decisions at the end of the 1st with QBs, but I mean, yeah, improvements in "scouting ability" would certainly help.  Not sure how to achieve that, considering it seems we've never had it.

[joewilly12]

Im willing to give Macc another chance as long as he fires Todd Bowles and brings in a head coach that has a clue as to whats going on in the NFL. 

He also needs to get rid of Ryan Fitzpatrick and the rest of the slackers Skrine,Gilchrist,Breno etc otherwise nothing changes here. 

[RoadFan]

I am willing to provide him with more time.  However, I am disgusted with his 2nd round picks.  His drafts as a whole have been "meh" at best.  Picking Leo Williams was almost a no-brainer, hard to give much credit for that.

I was not a fan of Devin Smith at all. And I think even less of Hackenberg.

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Injuries are Smith's development... Did you give Milliner the same benefit of the doubt re: injury?

I did. Milliner had multiple injuries and he had them consistently and he had a history of injuries. Personally, I was hesitant on calling him a bust and still believe if not for the injuries he could have been a great player- we certainly saw flashes. But after 3 seasons where he could barely get on the field, yes, you have to consider him a bust due to injury.   

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

We've generally accepted the "crapshoot" principle, no?  Teams seem to make stupid decisions at the end of the 1st with QBs, but I mean, yeah, improvements in "scouting ability" would certainly help.  Not sure how to achieve that, considering it seems we've never had it.

I definitely think their is an element of crapshoot principle, but I also believe that, as much of an inexact science as it is, you put grades on players and QB's, and you stick to them. If I am the GM, I have to believe a player has more than a crapshoot chance at succeeding to be selected in the first round. Yeah, our biggest problem has always been, and continues to be we seem to have crappy scouting at the QB position.

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I am willing to provide him with more time.  However, I am disgusted with his 2nd round picks.  His drafts as a while have been "meh" at best.  Picking Leo Williams was almost a no-brainer, hard to give much credit for that.

I was not a fan of Devin Smith at all. And I think even less of Hackenberg.

Darron Lee is more questionable especially when Jordan Jenkins was named a starting LB and Lee a situational LB, who drafts a situational player with a low 1st round pick someone who lacks knowledge and expertise in football. 

Executive of the year means nothing to me I judge GM's and coaches by wins and losses. 

[RoadFan]

13 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Lynch was still probably the right pick for this team.  I'll be curious to see if Hackenberg ever catches Lynch and his 3 games and 2 TDs.

Paxton Lynch will bust.  I have stated why many times.  The guy, with his "cutesy" flava sava facial hair and his unwarranted smugness.  He looked afraid to get hit in college.  Always backpedaling or throwing off his back foot instead of stepping up in the face of pressure to deliver the ball.  He is a Blaine Gabbert "chuck and duck."

NOTHING about him says tough competitior to me. 

When you watch Goff's college film, that kid stands in there and takes big hits repeatedly.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I definitely think their is an element of crapshoot principle, but I also believe that, as much of an inexact science as it is, you put grades on players and QB's, and you stick to them. If I am the GM, I have to believe a player has more than a crapshoot chance at succeeding to be selected in the first round. Yeah, our biggest problem has always been, and continues to be we seem to have crappy scouting at the QB position.

So, as I remember it, the grades on lynch were that he was a high upside guy who would take time to develop, but had top end potential.  Worth a 1st rounder I'd think.  The grades on Hack generally put him as a late round to undraftable.