Rich Gannon spewing the BS, lol.

[Jetster]

So I'm watching Colts vs Texans and so the announcers are talking about the Colts offensive line & Vern Lundquist I believe says, "the Colts offensive line had a very good game last week vs the NY Jets", and Gannon says, "it was very impressive against a very tough Jets Defensive line". I amost spit out my nachos laughing.

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, Jetster said:

So I'm watching Colts vs Texans and so the announcers are talking about the Colts offensive line & Vern Lundquist I believe says, "the Colts offensive line had a very good game last week vs the NY Jets", and Gannon says, "it was very impressive against a very tough Jets Defensive line". I amost spit out my nachos laughing.

Because hes 100% right?

Oh, no wait, they arent a good line 

[Smashmouth]

The hype our D-line gets based on them all being number 1 draft picks is laughable. The only consistent player is Williams and as a unit they create little to no pressure at all.

[drdetroit]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

So I'm watching Colts vs Texans and so the announcers are talking about the Colts offensive line & Vern Lundquist I believe says, "the Colts offensive line had a very good game last week vs the NY Jets", and Gannon says, "it was very impressive against a very tough Jets Defensive line". I amost spit out my nachos laughing.

I heard that too.  Gannon took too many shots to the head when he played in the nfl

[drdetroit]

41 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

The hype our D-line gets based on them all being number 1 draft picks is laughable. The only consistent player is Williams and as a unit they create little to no pressure at all.

Wilkerson is the most overrated player in the NFL and we don't even have Snacks no more.

[long suffering jets fan]

4 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Wilkerson is the most overrated player in the NFL and we don't even have Snacks no more.

Seems to me Snacks is the guy that made this a great line.  Without him we've been below average.

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Seems to me Snacks is the guy that made this a great line.  Without him we've been below average.

Our run D is currently ranked 4th but I think that has more to do with teams just throwing it all over the place at will against our horrible pass defense.

[JetPotato]

No one looks at tape. It's pure laziness. Big names and no production. That's it.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 12/11/2016 at 11:49 PM, drdetroit said:

Our run D is currently ranked 4th but I think that has more to do with teams just throwing it all over the place at will against our horrible pass defense.

True, the DBs are where our real problems are.  Wonder if we would have been better with Cro rather than the guys we have out there,  regardless we need to do a complete reset there.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/11/2016 at 7:14 PM, drdetroit said:

Wilkerson is the most overrated player in the NFL and we don't even have Snacks no more.

Future HOFer is what I was told. Repeatedly.

The sad part is he really can be a super player.

I don't understand his contract at all, other than to shift under $10m of 2016 cap space to 2018. The price for that maneuver is to guarantee his 2017 cap number in the $18m range, and surrendering probably a 2nd round pick this past year. Seems pretty stupid, since there's no shortage of ways to move under $10m from today to tomorrow, or clear it from today outright through cuts or non-signings.

Going to be interesting to see what we do with Richardson. Not only won't we be able to get the insane 1st rounder-plus that Maccagnan wanted for him 2 months ago, but it's anyone's guess what mid-round pick he'd command. Could we get a 3rd? A 4th? And if we can't get a 1st (or even a 2nd-3rd) rounder, is MM going to just bring him back at $8m because nobody hit his number?

[Shadetree]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Future HOFer is what I was told. Repeatedly.

The sad part is he really can be a super player.

I don't understand his contract at all, other than to shift under $10m of 2016 cap space to 2018. The price for that maneuver is to guarantee his 2017 cap number in the $18m range, and surrendering probably a 2nd round pick this past year. Seems pretty stupid, since there's no shortage of ways to move under $10m from today to tomorrow, or clear it from today outright through cuts or non-signings.

Going to be interesting to see what we do with Richardson. Not only won't we be able to get the insane 1st rounder-plus that Maccagnan wanted for him 2 months ago, but it's anyone's guess what mid-round pick he'd command. Could we get a 3rd? A 4th? And if we can't get a 1st (or even a 2nd-3rd) rounder, is MM going to just bring him back at $8m because nobody hit his number?

I don't care what we get for Sheldon. I want him gone. 

Ok ok ok....I DO care what we can get for him. But I'm pretty sure I want him gone. Pretty sure. 

Its amazing how we talked about the possibility of having the best DLine in the history of the franchise. We have ONE D Lineman that I respect and it ain't Mo and it ain't Sheldon. It's Williams. 

Omg I hate this team more than any Jets team I've ever hated. And all those other teams I hated I hated the coach. THIS team? I hate the players ..almost every last one of them.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Shadetree said:

I don't care what we get for Sheldon. I want him gone. 

Ok ok ok....I DO care what we can get for him. But I'm pretty sure I want him gone. Pretty sure. 

Its amazing how we talked about the possibility of having the best DLine in the history of the franchise. We have ONE D Lineman that I respect and it ain't Mo and it ain't Sheldon. It's Williams. 

Omg I hate this team more than any Jets team I've ever hated. And all those other teams I hated I hated the coach. THIS team? I hate the players ..almost every last one of them.

Even if I disagreed, it's hard to get on any fan for feeling this way.

In fairness to Maccagnan, he did try to deal both Mo and Sheldon at times. Here's the transcript of how those attempts went down with every NFL GM he spoke to:

Spring 2015:

• Maccagnan: "I want to trade Mo. But if I don't get two 1st round picks, I'm keeping him!"
• Every NFL GM: "OK, keep him then. A single 1st rounder maybe, since he's a super player and has a cheaper RFA-tag year still left, but any more than that is just too much. Honestly, with the money he's looking for, you're lucky anyone's even offering up just one 1st rounder, and probably it'd have to be a 1st rounder next year at that."
• Maccagnan: "Really, I mean it. I'll really keep him under the RFA tag!" *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "Yeah, that's fine. You do that. Next year the offer will be less." *click*

Spring 2016:

• Maccagnan: "Seeeee? I'm the GM of the year! Weeeee!!! Now then: Let's Make A Deal. I want a 1st and a 3rd round pick for Mo, who just got 12 sacks for us, or I'm keeping him again." *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "We already told you 'no' last year. Now we wouldn't even get the half-price tag year at $8m, plus he's coming off a broken leg so year 1 he probably won't be all that anyhow. You're just not being realistic. A trade has to benefit our side as well."
• Maccagnan, as draft is approaching: "OK, hm. Well the absolute minimum I'll take is just a 1st rounder - or even the trade value of a 1st rounder - so I don't have to worry about papers and fans telling me I took too little."
• Every NFL GM: "It's still no. Maybe a mid or late 2nd or something, but we spoke to his agent and he wants at least $100m. There's no way you're getting even a 1st rounder for him now. Not even a 1st rounder in next year's draft. Plus we all know you don't need him and spent like crazy last year and are stuck with him on the franchise tag, so frankly your negotiating position sucks."
• Maccagnan: "I mean it and stuff. I'll let him play under that franchise tag and stuff."
• Every NFL GM: "Go stuff yourself and stuff." *click*

Midseason 2016:

• Maccagnan: "Hey there, it's me again. Turns out our season's not going so good. Anyhoo, just letting you know the trade deadline's approaching and I'm willing to deal Sheldon Richardson. As you know, he's one misstep away from getting suspended for a full season, he's not locked up long term, and as you also know, from his own big mouth, he wants a giant contract extension like Mo. 
• Every NFL GM: OK, well he's certainly talented & he's young and all, but that's a lot of baggage and risk for us. What are you looking for?"
• Maccagnan: "I'd like a 1st and a 3rd for Sheldon Richardson." *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
• Maccagnan: "Well, I supposed I could take a little less. But my line in the sand still has to be at least a lone 1st rounder."
• Every NFL GM: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
• Maccagnan: "All right how about if--
• Every NFL GM: *click*

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Even if I disagreed, it's hard to get on any fan for feeling this way.

In fairness to Maccagnan, he did try to deal both Mo and Sheldon at times. Here's the transcript of how those attempts went down with every NFL GM he spoke to:

Spring 2015:

• Maccagnan: "I want to trade Mo. But if I don't get two 1st round picks, I'm keeping him!"
• Every NFL GM: "OK, keep him then. A single 1st rounder maybe, since he's a super player and has a cheaper RFA-tag year still left, but any more than that is just too much. Honestly, with the money he's looking for, you're lucky anyone's even offering up just one 1st rounder, and probably it'd have to be a 1st rounder next year at that."
• Maccagnan: "Really, I mean it. I'll really keep him under the RFA tag!" *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "Yeah, that's fine. You do that. Next year the offer will be less." *click*

Spring 2016:

• Maccagnan: "Seeeee? I'm the GM of the year! Weeeee!!! Now then: Let's Make A Deal. I want a 1st and a 3rd round pick for Mo, who just got 12 sacks for us, or I'm keeping him again." *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "We already told you 'no' last year. Now we wouldn't even get the half-price tag year at $8m, plus he's coming off a broken leg so year 1 he probably won't be all that anyhow. You're just not being realistic. A trade has to benefit our side as well."
• Maccagnan, as draft is approaching: "OK, hm. Well the absolute minimum I'll take is just a 1st rounder - or even the trade value of a 1st rounder - so I don't have to worry about papers and fans telling me I took too little."
• Every NFL GM: "It's still no. Maybe a mid or late 2nd or something, but we spoke to his agent and he wants at least $100m. There's no way you're getting even a 1st rounder for him now. Not even a 1st rounder in next year's draft. Plus we all know you don't need him and spent like crazy last year and are stuck with him on the franchise tag, so frankly your negotiating position sucks."
• Maccagnan: "I mean it and stuff. I'll let him play under that franchise tag and stuff."
• Every NFL GM: "Go stuff yourself and stuff." *click*

Midseason 2016:

• Maccagnan: "Hey there, it's me again. Turns out our season's not going so good. Anyhoo, just letting you know the trade deadline's approaching and I'm willing to deal Sheldon Richardson. As you know, he's one misstep away from getting suspended for a full season, he's not locked up long term, and as you also know, from his own big mouth, he wants a giant contract extension like Mo. 
• Every NFL GM: OK, well he's certainly talented & he's young and all, but that's a lot of baggage and risk for us. What are you looking for?"
• Maccagnan: "I'd like a 1st and a 3rd for Sheldon Richardson." *sips coffee*
• Every NFL GM: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
• Maccagnan: "Well, I supposed I could take a little less. But my line in the sand still has to be at least a lone 1st rounder."
• Every NFL GM: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
• Maccagnan: "All right how about if--
• Every NFL GM: *click*

Another example of this franchise overvaluing their own players and overvaluing position groups. We're paying 3 DL guys QB/LT/primo pass rusher type cap money. And out of the 3 only Williams is close to worth it. If you were going to take Williams (entirely defensible, he's a good player) you had to get rid of one of the other DL guys for something of value. 

Not a draftnik, but can anyone explain how we took Lee over the available OL guys? Small guy drafted to cover TEs cannot cover TEs. 

 

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Another example of this franchise overvaluing their own players and overvaluing position groups. We're paying 3 DL guys QB/LT/primo pass rusher type cap money. And out of the 3 only Williams is close to worth it. If you were going to take Williams (entirely defensible, he's a good player) you had to get rid of one of the other DL guys for something of value. 

Not a draftnik, but can anyone explain how we took Lee over the available OL guys? Small guy drafted to cover TEs cannot cover TEs. 

 

Lee was a need pick. They clearly abandoned BPA, and while I still have a positive outlook on Lee's ability to be part of the solution, I don't think an ILB is a position you draft in the first round simply based on the economics of position valuation. QB, OLB, CB, OT, DE, DT, WR... these are the positions that demand the biggest contracts, and the positions that make the biggest differences. 

If we were dead-set on not drafting Paxton Lynch, then at least we should have been looking to add someone at a high market value position. 

Instead, we took Lee, who I like as a player, but we could have easily taken Su'a Cravens instead of. In fact, I'll be watching Paxton Lynch and Su'a Cravens over their careers in comparison to Lee and Hackenberg. Regardless, I think MacCagnan did a good job sticking to BPA in his first year - but deviated from in in year two. Let's hope year 3 sees him re-center his draft philosophy. 

I also read that the Jets are one of the top 3 teams with space to clear out for the cap. So, we may have a unique opportunity to add long-term quality FA's, rather than old washed up FA.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Lee was a need pick. They clearly abandoned BPA, and while I still have a positive outlook on Lee's ability to be part of the solution, I don't think an ILB is a position you draft in the first round simply based on the economics of position valuation. QB, OLB, CB, OT, DE, DT, WR... these are the positions that demand the biggest contracts, and the positions that make the biggest differences. 

If we were dead-set on not drafting Paxton Lynch, then at least we should have been looking to add someone at a high market value position. 

Instead, we took Lee, who I like as a player, but we could have easily taken Su'a Cravens instead of. In fact, I'll be watching Paxton Lynch and Su'a Cravens over their careers in comparison to Lee and Hackenberg. Regardless, I think MacCagnan did a good job sticking to BPA in his first year - but deviated from in in year two. Let's hope year 3 sees him re-center his draft philosophy. 

I also read that the Jets are one of the top 3 teams with space to clear out for the cap. So, we may have a unique opportunity to add long-term quality FA's, rather than old washed up FA.

Cravens is having about the same rookie season as Lee. More PD's but less tackles.

Lynch needs a couple of years to develop

[Integrity28]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Cravens is having about the same rookie season as Lee. More PD's but less tackles.

Lynch needs a couple of years to develop

Nobody need to read this response.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Nobody need to read this response.

I will say that since Lee was mocked by many to go in the top 15, it can be argued that he was BPA. And looking at who was drafted after him in the first round, its nto really good

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I will say that since Lee was mocked by many to go in the top 15, it can be argued that he was BPA. And looking at who was drafted after him in the first round, its nto really good

Dude, I don't care what you think. 

[bitonti]

the Colts line by the way is actually gotten much younger and better in the last two years. 

LT Anthony Castonzo (1st round tackle, veteran, pretty decent) 

LG Jack Mewhort (2nd year man, glue guy like Justin Pugh, excellent all around player) 

C Ryan Kelly (1st round rookie center from Alabama, should be a 10 year starter) 

RG Denzelle Good (2nd year man out of Mars Hill 7th round pick, raw but a physical specimen)

RT Joe Haeg (5th round rookie was Carson Wentz LT at North Dakota State) 

 

their swing tackle is Joe Reitz who can play any position on the line but center. 

So to summarize they are starting 2 rookies, 2 second year guys and Anthony Castonzo. And they have a vet starter in Reitz if they need him.

They are young, healthy and they have hope for the future. 

 

What exactly is so bad about the Colts' line? 

[ASH1962]

22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Colts line by the way is actually gotten much younger and better in the last two years. 

LT Anthony Castonzo (1st round tackle, veteran, pretty decent) 

LG Jack Mewhort (2nd year man, glue guy like Justin Pugh, excellent all around player) 

C Ryan Kelly (1st round rookie center from Alabama, should be a 10 year starter) 

RG Denzelle Good (2nd year man out of Mars Hill 7th round pick, raw but a physical specimen)

RT Joe Haeg (5th round rookie was Carson Wentz LT at North Dakota State) 

 

their swing tackle is Joe Reitz who can play any position on the line but center. 

So to summarize they are starting 2 rookies, 2 second year guys and Anthony Castonzo. And they have a vet starter in Reitz if they need him.

They are young, healthy and they have hope for the future. 

 

What exactly is so bad about the Colts' line? 

Well we made them look like the second coming of the Dallas OL ..

[MaxAF]

The D-LINE was supposed to be the Jets strongest part of the team. They have been underwhelming at best. Mo and Shelly have combined for 5 sacks this year. Mo is not even getting a double team anymore and is being handled. Williams is the only bright spot on this defense IMO. He has 7 sacks this year and has played hard every week.