Jetsbb Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65880/jets-coach-todd-bowles-is-reliving-the-old-pete-carroll-nightmare-sadly FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The debacle that unfolded Saturday was reminiscent of a long-ago Christmas Eve in 1994. The coach was Pete Carroll, and he got whacked after only one season because a couple of knuckleheads -- James Hasty and Brian Washington -- infected the locker room with their toxic attitude, creating a perception that the team had quit on Carroll. The New York Jets were awful down the stretch, culminating with an ugly loss in Houston on Dec. 24. Owner Leon Hess overreacted and fired Carroll, who has done quite nicely for himself. The same scenario is playing out for the current Jets, as Todd Bowles -- considered a rising star only a year ago -- is getting buried by a talent-thin team that seemingly isn't fighting for him. Not only did they get embarrassed by the New England Cheaters, 41-3, but they pointed fingers after the game, with some players questioning the effort. The locker room appears divided, with a couple of so-called stars -- Brandon Marshall and Sheldon Richardson -- in the forefront of the turmoil. Unwritten rule No. 1 in the NFL: If you want to get your coach fired, start bickering with each other and make comments about the team not trying hard enough. The players probably didn't do it on purpose, but they put Bowles squarely on the hot seat with one game remaining in this rotten season. If Bowles gets sacked, it'll be because of Saturday's mess -- on and off the field. Richardson, who should've been grateful he was allowed to play a week after his Snapchat fiasco, called out Marshall in the locker room. He went public with a simmering personal feud, creating another headache for Bowles, whose entire body ached in the aftermath of a kidney and gall-bladder attack. Wait, there was more. Leonard Williams, the team's most promising star, said "guys weren't ready to play" and were "going through the motions." Muhammad Wilkerson basically echoed Williams' sentiment. Imagine: Wilkerson made an impassioned speech before the game, imploring his teammates to win it for Bowles, who left a hospital to coach the game. If they were inspired by Bowles' toughness, it sure didn't show. Is the locker room dissension widespread? No, but a few bad apples can create the wrong perception. That happened in '94, and it cost Carroll his job. A couple of weeks ago, Bowles appeared safe, but he lost by 21 and 38 points to the Dolphins and Cheaters, respectively. Nothing irks owner Woody Johnson more than losing badly to division rivals. The Jets (4-11) were non-competitive against the mighty Cheaters. Eight of 11 starters on offense began the season as backups. They had no chance. Still, a 38-point loss is "inexcusable," as Bowles called it. Johnson didn't even make the game. Family obligation, the team said. Now what? If Johnson fires Bowles after only two seasons, he'd cast himself and the organization in an unflattering light. He'd be known as an owner who bails out at the first sign of adversity, and good luck trying to attract a top head-coaching candidate willing to work in that environment. Johnson is about to make one of the biggest decisions in his 16 years of ownership. He can be a strong leader and recommit to Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan, expressing dissatisfaction with 2016 but also showing he's a man of his convictions. After all, the Jets won 10 games last season; it's not as if MacBowles is a two-year bust. Or Johnson can make himself into an early-days George Steinbrenner, impatient and cartoonish, tossing Bowles and/or Maccagnan into the dumpster marked "John Idzik." Unless Johnson can pull Nick Saban out of a magic hat, he won't find a savior out there. Hess got antsy 22 years ago, dumping Carroll if favor of Rich Kotite. How'd that work out? Bowles is having a rough year, but he has been undermined by horrific quarterback play, an old roster and an inordinate number of injuries. He's well-respected around the league, and you can bet he'd get interviews for head-coaching positions if the Jets put him on the market. Now Johnson has reached a crossroads in his ownership. He can change the perception by staying the course or doing what his predecessor did all those years ago. For Pete's sake, Woody, don't be swayed by the noise and few meaningless games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The debacle that unfolded Saturday was reminiscent of a long-ago Christmas Eve in 1994. The coach was Pete Carroll, and he got whacked after only one season because a couple of knuckleheads -- James Hasty and Brian Washington -- infected the locker room with their toxic attitude, creating a perception that the team had quit on Carroll. The New York Jets were awful down the stretch, culminating with an ugly loss in Houston on Dec. 24. Owner Leon Hess overreacted and fired Carroll, who has done quite nicely for himself. The same scenario is playing out for the current Jets, as Todd Bowles -- considered a rising star only a year ago -- is getting buried by a talent-thin team that seemingly isn't fighting for him. Not only did they get embarrassed by the New England Cheaters, 41-3, but they pointed fingers after the game, with some players questioning the effort. The locker room appears divided, with a couple of so-called stars -- Brandon Marshall and Sheldon Richardson -- in the forefront of the turmoil. Unwritten rule No. 1 in the NFL: If you want to get your coach fired, start bickering with each other and make comments about the team not trying hard enough. The players probably didn't do it on purpose, but they put Bowles squarely on the hot seat with one game remaining in this rotten season. If Bowles gets sacked, it'll be because of Saturday's mess -- on and off the field. Richardson, who should've been grateful he was allowed to play a week after his Snapchat fiasco, called out Marshall in the locker room. He went public with a simmering personal feud, creating another headache for Bowles, whose entire body ached in the aftermath of a kidney and gall-bladder attack. Wait, there was more. Leonard Williams, the team's most promising star, said "guys weren't ready to play" and were "going through the motions." Muhammad Wilkerson basically echoed Williams' sentiment. Imagine: Wilkerson made an impassioned speech before the game, imploring his teammates to win it for Bowles, who left a hospital to coach the game. If they were inspired by Bowles' toughness, it sure didn't show. Is the locker room dissension widespread? No, but a few bad apples can create the wrong perception. That happened in '94, and it cost Carroll his job. A couple of weeks ago, Bowles appeared safe, but he lost by 21 and 38 points to the Dolphins and Cheaters, respectively. Nothing irks owner Woody Johnson more than losing badly to division rivals. The Jets (4-11) were non-competitive against the mighty Cheaters. Eight of 11 starters on offense began the season as backups. They had no chance. Still, a 38-point loss is "inexcusable," as Bowles called it. Johnson didn't even make the game. Family obligation, the team said. Now what? If Johnson fires Bowles after only two seasons, he'd cast himself and the organization in an unflattering light. He'd be known as an owner who bails out at the first sign of adversity, and good luck trying to attract a top head-coaching candidate willing to work in that environment. Johnson is about to make one of the biggest decisions in his 16 years of ownership. He can be a strong leader and recommit to Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan, expressing dissatisfaction with 2016 but also showing he's a man of his convictions. After all, the Jets won 10 games last season; it's not as if MacBowles is a two-year bust. Or Johnson can make himself into an early-days George Steinbrenner, impatient and cartoonish, tossing Bowles and/or Maccagnan into the dumpster marked "John Idzik." Unless Johnson can pull Nick Saban out of a magic hat, he won't find a savior out there. Hess got antsy 22 years ago, dumping Carroll if favor of Rich Kotite. How'd that work out? Bowles is having a rough year, but he has been undermined by horrific quarterback play, an old roster and an inordinate number of injuries. He's well-respected around the league, and you can bet he'd get interviews for head-coaching positions if the Jets put him on the market. Now Johnson has reached a crossroads in his ownership. He can change the perception by staying the course or doing what his predecessor did all those years ago. For Pete's sake, Woody, don't be swayed by the noise and few meaningless games.
Unwritten rule No. 1 in the NFL: If you want to get your coach fired, start bickering with each other and make comments about the team not trying hard enough. The players probably didn't do it on purpose, but they put Bowles squarely on the hot seat with one game remaining in this rotten season. If Bowles gets sacked, it'll be because of Saturday's mess -- on and off the field. Richardson, who should've been grateful he was allowed to play a week after his Snapchat fiasco, called out Marshall in the locker room. He went public with a simmering personal feud, creating another headache for Bowles, whose entire body ached in the aftermath of a kidney and gall-bladder attack. Wait, there was more. Leonard Williams, the team's most promising star, said "guys weren't ready to play" and were "going through the motions." Muhammad Wilkerson basically echoed Williams' sentiment. Imagine: Wilkerson made an impassioned speech before the game, imploring his teammates to win it for Bowles, who left a hospital to coach the game. If they were inspired by Bowles' toughness, it sure didn't show. Is the locker room dissension widespread? No, but a few bad apples can create the wrong perception. That happened in '94, and it cost Carroll his job. A couple of weeks ago, Bowles appeared safe, but he lost by 21 and 38 points to the Dolphins and Cheaters, respectively. Nothing irks owner Woody Johnson more than losing badly to division rivals. The Jets (4-11) were non-competitive against the mighty Cheaters. Eight of 11 starters on offense began the season as backups. They had no chance. Still, a 38-point loss is "inexcusable," as Bowles called it. Johnson didn't even make the game. Family obligation, the team said. Now what? If Johnson fires Bowles after only two seasons, he'd cast himself and the organization in an unflattering light. He'd be known as an owner who bails out at the first sign of adversity, and good luck trying to attract a top head-coaching candidate willing to work in that environment. Johnson is about to make one of the biggest decisions in his 16 years of ownership. He can be a strong leader and recommit to Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan, expressing dissatisfaction with 2016 but also showing he's a man of his convictions. After all, the Jets won 10 games last season; it's not as if MacBowles is a two-year bust. Or Johnson can make himself into an early-days George Steinbrenner, impatient and cartoonish, tossing Bowles and/or Maccagnan into the dumpster marked "John Idzik." Unless Johnson can pull Nick Saban out of a magic hat, he won't find a savior out there. Hess got antsy 22 years ago, dumping Carroll if favor of Rich Kotite. How'd that work out? Bowles is having a rough year, but he has been undermined by horrific quarterback play, an old roster and an inordinate number of injuries. He's well-respected around the league, and you can bet he'd get interviews for head-coaching positions if the Jets put him on the market. Now Johnson has reached a crossroads in his ownership. He can change the perception by staying the course or doing what his predecessor did all those years ago. For Pete's sake, Woody, don't be swayed by the noise and few meaningless games.
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 He's right. Unless they get a guy like Harbaugh who can coach up young talent, there really is no impact by getting a new Head coach now, given the market right now. And we will see if Woody has learned to avoid having the fans and media affect him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Carroll was an absolutely putrid coach in the 90s that deserved to get fired from both gigs. The man had to go coach college for a decade before he figured it out. If it's going to take 10 years for Bowles to learn the job, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: Carroll was an absolutely putrid coach in the 90s that deserved to get fired from both gigs. The man had to go coach college for a decade before he figured it out. If it's going to take 10 years for Bowles to learn the job, no thanks. Yeah that comp is a bit shaky although it does suggest that the grass isn't always greener on the other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 The biggest problem with firing Bowles now, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out, is that it probably buys Maccagnan at least 2-3 more years. Fire them both now or fire them both a year from now, but firing one now is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Yeah that comp is a bit shaky although it does suggest that the grass isn't always greener on the other side You weren't even born when the guy was coaching. Go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, dbatesman said: The biggest problem with firing Bowles now, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out, is that it probably buys Maccagnan at least 2-3 more years. Fire them both now or fire them both a year from now, but firing one now is dumb. I'm sure Sperm explained it so briefly as well. Just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: He's right. Unless they get a guy like Harbaugh who can coach up young talent, there really is no impact by getting a new Head coach now, given the market right now. And we will see if Woody has learned to avoid having the fans and media affect him Kinda is the point though, no? We need a HC that can build a team and coach up young players. Bowles is simply not that guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, johnnysd said: Kinda is the point though, no? We need a HC that can build a team and coach up young players. Bowles is simply not that guy This is not an endorsement of Bowles by any stretch. The problem is who is that HC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, dbatesman said: The biggest problem with firing Bowles now, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out, is that it probably buys Maccagnan at least 2-3 more years. Fire them both now or fire them both a year from now, but firing one now is dumb. If Macc fails this coming draft, fire both of them next year. ALthough the development of Shell and Burris are promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH1962 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Devils advocate here, keeping Bowltite here would send the wrong message to prospective candidates in that the owner only cares about $$ and does not give a crap about winning and / or putting a respectable product on the field. This team is so far gone I do not see how Bowltite returns. Nobody here or anywhere can convince me otherwise. I have watched sports long enough to know when it is too far gone. This is past too far gone. I have been saying this for the entire season, look deep inside your minds and ask yourselves what this guy does well as a HC. Name one thing his staff does or has done well enough to convince us that they will be able to turn this sinking ship around and turn it into a respectable winner. You might be searching for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: If Macc fails this coming draft, fire both of them next year. ALthough the development of Shell and Burris are promising. If he does fail you are ok enduring another 4-12 or 5-11 season under this regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, joewilly12 said: If he does fail you are ok enduring another 4-12 or 5-11 season under this regime. I dont really care. There will always be another season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, ASH1962 said: Devils advocate here, keeping Bowltite here would send the wrong message to prospective candidates in that the owner only cares about $$ and does not give a crap about winning and / or putting a respectable product on the field. This team is so far gone I do not see how Bowltite returns. Nobody here or anywhere can convince me otherwise. I have watched sports long enough to know when it is too far gone. This is past too far gone. I have been saying this for the entire season, look deep inside your minds and ask yourselves what this guy does well as a HC. Name one thing his staff does or has done well enough to convince us that they will be able to turn this sinking ship around and turn it into a respectable winner. You might be searching for a very long time. I dont think HC's care about that. GMs might but not HC's. And I dont think this is about money. This is not becoming the Cleveland Browns revolving door of head coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: I dont really care. There will always be another season Ok then so it doesn't matter to you whether we win or lose as there will always be another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Ok then so it doesn't matter to you whether we win or lose as there will always be another season. This year the Cubs won the World Series and the city of Cleveland won a sports championship and Leicester City, who finished next to last the previous year, won the Premier League. The odds of sports suggest that the Jets will win eventually, unless of course, it's fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 30 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: He's right. Unless they get a guy like Harbaugh who can coach up young talent, there really is no impact by getting a new Head coach now, given the market right now. And we will see if Woody has learned to avoid having the fans and media affect him No he's not. You've been licking Bowles garbage the entire year. I've called him out from the very first year as one of the most clueless coaches I've ever seen around even in a 10-6 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, j4jets said: No he's not. You've been licking Bowles garbage the entire year. I've called him out from the very first year as one of the most clueless coaches I've ever seen around even in a 10-6 season. Coach's job is to win games. Did well the first season (don't care how they came), sucked the second season. Third season will tell. It has nothing to do with Bowles and the bad job he did this year. It has to do with being fair and, as Cimini said in a rare moment of logic for him, telling other candidates that they will get a fair chance here. Mangini is a better comp. If Bowles loses to Buffalo, he will have the same record as Mangini after two years. Mangini stayed, so logically..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: If he does fail you are ok enduring another 4-12 or 5-11 season under this regime. You're getting it backwards. The real problem is that the rest of you dumbasses aren't ok enduring a single 4-12 or 5-11 season, under any regime, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 The biggest problem with firing Bowles now, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out, is that it probably buys Maccagnan at least 2-3 more years. Fire them both now or fire them both a year from now, but firing one now is dumb. Firing 3 GMs in 4 years Pretty much guarantees we will not have anyone competent at GM or coach for the next 10 years.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 36 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: Carroll was an absolutely putrid coach in the 90s that deserved to get fired from both gigs. The man had to go coach college for a decade before he figured it out. If it's going to take 10 years for Bowles to learn the job, no thanks. Yet he made the playoffs 2 of his 3 years with the Pats and yes he took over a Tuna team but BB took over and went 5-11 after Carroll left.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 42 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: He's right. Unless they get a guy like Harbaugh who can coach up young talent, there really is no impact by getting a new Head coach now, given the market right now. And we will see if Woody has learned to avoid having the fans and media affect him This team needs addition by subtraction. Get rid of the underachievers like Revis, Pryor, Clady, Giacomini, Brandon Marshall, Fitz, Geno, Skrine, and hope to God Mac has a good draft and can get a decent veteran QB to come here. That would be a good start. It would also be nice if Christian Hackenberg is even halfway decent, but who knows. A second round choice should not be as far behind as this guy seems to be, so not optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games without Russell Wilson. Spare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, JiF said: Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games without Russell Wilson. Spare me. They won 7 games and the division and a playoff game without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Get them both some help. Get a business man to help with FO decisions. Get a REAL QB coach to groom the young QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: They won 7 games and the division and a playoff game without him. Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games without Russell Wilson. Spare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, JiF said: Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games without Russell Wilson. Spare me. Well in that season he won 8. So there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Well in that season he won 8. So there you go Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games (in the regular season) before Russell Wilson. Spare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 42 minutes ago, dbatesman said: The biggest problem with firing Bowles now, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out, is that it probably buys Maccagnan at least 2-3 more years. Fire them both now or fire them both a year from now, but firing one now is dumb. And to fire a GM in less than 3 seasons is about as dumb as it gets. No matter how many fans think it's smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, JiF said: Pete Carroll couldn't win more than 7 games (in the regular season) before Russell Wilson. Spare me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thshadow Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, Snell41 said: Firing 3 GMs in 4 years Pretty much guarantees we will not have anyone competent at GM or coach for the next 10 years. I think this is an important point. More important than doing well next season is for prospective coaches and GMs to think that this is a reasonable place for them to work. If coaches and GMs are being fired every other year (especially new ones), good coaches and / or prospects won't want to come here. And if he's as bad as he seems to be, we'll have a shot at the #1 pick in 2018... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Thank you. You're not welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, Savage69 said: Yet he made the playoffs 2 of his 3 years with the Pats and yes he took over a Tuna team but BB took over and went 5-11 after Carroll left.. Which proves what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, JiF said: You're not welcome. Awwww diddums..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think this job would be attractive to someone like Payton. There is better talent on the Jets defense than the Saints. Add a veteran QB and he could probably turn this around very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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