Would YOU fire Bowles?

[Ex-Rex]

8 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

He has zero value to this team, on either side of the ball.. The team seems unprepared every week.. He is a nice guy who tries his best but that is not good enough.. Chan is on his last legs.. Now is the time to bring in a whole knew coaching staff.. 

I know that firing Bowles may have a negative effect on who will come to take the job, but there are only 32 of these jobs in the NFL, so someone like Todd Haley or the Cowboys OC, Scott Linehan would take it on. I doubt Josh McDaniels would come here, but who knows.

[DMan77]

5 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I would have no choice with what I have seen this season but to give Bowles a pink slip and order Mac to hire a new HC and to clean house without restriction. At least these players would have to be removed from the equation as well - Skrine, Revis, Pryor, Richardson, Brandon Marshall (send him and Richardson to the same team ha) Clady, Giacomini, Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith.

I hear you, but I think the last thing Mac feels like doing this offseason is finding a HC... He knows he has a massive task in front of him with the roster problems this team has... Both with positions that need addressing as well as figuring out who to cut, who is bringing the locker room down, who might step up... He's got a lot to do. 

I know it's the mans job, and he'll do it if he has to, but I really feel like he'd rather just let this ride for now and hope a fixed roster helps things.

[varjet]

41 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Who are you going to replace him with?  He has had a bad year, yes.  Not his fault that the OL fell apart.  What other coach had any success with four starting OL on IR?

Not his fault that Revis lost a step.  It was obvious by first qtr of second game that Revis was no longer a man cover corner.  And let's face it, he's terrible as a zone corner.  Ask Tampa Bay.

No HC in the history of football could turnover this roster to win next year.  Let TB and Macc have next year to develop the players they drafted in 2015-2017.  The will likely bottom out.  If they decide to move on, the new regime will have likely a top  pick where multiple franchise QB prospects are coming out and have a ton of cap space.

Hiring a HC after this season means we aren't getting anyone good enough to get us competitive in our division.  And it means we sign a bunch of Jags to make us competitively 6 win team.  Not bad enough to solve our QB issues and not good enough for anything.

 

Whoever is ultimately in charge of Football Operations needs to mandate Bowles to develop players.  It sounds like there has been no resources this year to develop at least the QBs.   If we are going to tell Bowles to do that, he needs more and better coaches and support to do that.  Bowles is more likely than not not returning in 2018, so the player resource needs to be maintained for his successor.

1 minute ago, DMan77 said:

I hear you, but I think the last thing Mac feels like doing this offseason is finding a HC... He knows he has a massive task in front of him with the roster problems this team has... Both with positions that need addressing as well as figuring out who to cut, who is bringing the locker room down, who might step up... He's got a lot to do. 

I know it's the mans job, and he'll do it if he has to, but I really feel like he'd rather just let this ride for now and hope a fixed roster helps things.

Macc is not in charge of selecting the HC.  In the current structure, that is Woody's job.  That is the problem.  Jacqueline Davidson may also report to Woody.  Mac scouts and selects players.  JD signs them.  Bowles coaches them.  They operate under Woody's direction.

It is a Dumpster Fire.

The only thing that I can add to this Bowles/Mac or no Bowles/Mac debate is that I have no doubt that all of the efforts we are seeing now, whether players, coaches or executive, are not the true indication of their ability.  Everyone is dragged down by Woody and his shortsightedness and bad judgment.   Tanny is doing better in Miami with Steve Ross, a real self-made businessman, owning the team.  If any or all of them are fired, they all will pop up elsewhere in the NFL and do better than they are doing now.

That being said, Bowles and Staff have been SO BAD that he may never be a successful NFL HC.  Bowles/Rodgers/Caldwell Brain Trust?   He needs a Parcells/Carroll Epiphany Moment of Personal Change and to surround himself with people smarter than he is, not the opposite.

Mac has shown some signs of life, and there is enough evidence of Woody's meddling and Bowles pushing for pieces to his puzzle, that he has a greater chance of ultimate success.   But Bowles needs a complete reboot, which he should do on his own.  He should sleep on Parcells' floor while Parcells pretends to be Yoda.  But that is a much better plan for 2018 than to blow the whole thing up before Woody changes the structure.

But as Woody hits 70 and reflects on his accidental political success and the failure to build an organization of the quality of the Cheaters in approximately the same period of time. hopefully he has a Leon Hess moment and, to preserve his legacy and his family's fortune, steps away from day-to-day management and hands over the keys

[DMan77]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

 

It is a Dumpster Fire.

 

But as Woody hits 70 and reflects on his accidental political success and the failure to build an organization of the quality of the Cheaters in approximately the same period of time. hopefully he has a Leon Hess moment and, to preserve his legacy and his family's fortune, steps away from day-to-day management and hands over the keys

I thought it was a good thing a couple years ago when Woody brought in those "experts" to help him out in the search... I thought that was really his first "step back" type of move... He didn't get crushed in the media or anything for it so I think his ego is still ok... So maybe he'll be willing to do that this offseason too. Maybe he'll step back just a little at let Mac and his team go to work, with minimal interference. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Who are you going to replace him with?  He has had a bad year, yes.  Not his fault that the OL fell apart.  What other coach had any success with four starting OL on IR?

Not his fault that Revis lost a step.  It was obvious by first qtr of second game that Revis was no longer a man cover corner.  And let's face it, he's terrible as a zone corner.  Ask Tampa Bay.

No HC in the history of football could turnover this roster to win next year.  Let TB and Macc have next year to develop the players they drafted in 2015-2017.  The will likely bottom out.  If they decide to move on, the new regime will have likely a top  pick where multiple franchise QB prospects are coming out and have a ton of cap space.

Hiring a HC after this season means we aren't getting anyone good enough to get us competitive in our division.  And it means we sign a bunch of Jags to make us competitively 6 win team.  Not bad enough to solve our QB issues and not good enough for anything.

 

 

So rather than answer the question, you decided to reel off a bunch of excuses, and play the "Who do we get as HC that's better???" card.  Sounds a lot like a post made during the Herm, Mangini, and Rex tenures. 

Yes, HC's can and do win with the type of roster Bowles has.  In fact, this team won 10 games the season before with a very similar roster.  So what happened?

No, you don't give a HC another year just because you fear you can't find an upgrade.  With only 32 NFL HC positions, and only a handful of open spots available each year, there are ALWAYS quality HC's out there.  We just happened to whiff with the Bowles hire because our owner is terrible, whereas the Dolphins seem to have a good one in Gase and the Falcons seem to have a good one in Dan Quinn.  None of that should preclude us from trying again. 

[Pcola]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So rather than answer the question, you decided to reel off a bunch of excuses.  Sounds a lot like a post made during the Herm, Mangini, and Rex tenures. 

Well since you have all the answers, who would you bring in?  What should the knowledgeable fan's expectations be?

And since you need some sort of closure on your question, Bowles should have full autonomy on his assistants.  Usually your first year as a HC, you are limited to assistants who were recently fired or had their contracts up.  So normally you see a few changes in year two.  The Jets over achieved last year convincing their meddling owner, fans, and front office that these changes weren't necessary.

Changing coaches every year isn't the answer.  Herm had 5 years, Rex had 6.  Mangini got fired because the Jets collapsed with a HOF QB, and had 3 seasons.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Well since you have all the answers, who would you bring in?  What should the knowledgeable fan's expectations be?

I never claimed to have all the answers, but this is the kind of post a lot of people make when they have nothing but excuses for why a HC sucks. 

I don't have a full list of HC's that would be better, and I don't know which HC's would even accept an interview.  John Fox refused to interview 2 years ago.  But I DO know that Bowles is terrible at his job, and a long laundry list of excuses doesn't fix our situation here.  He has the worst qualities of some of our worst HC's in our history.  He has zero ability to hold players accountable, has never demonstrated he can "out-gameplan" opposing coaches, and his defense is awful despite former 1st round picks all over the field AND the reputation from AZ that he was great at running defenses.  It's insanity to argue that because WE don't know who the next good HC out there is, that that means we can't fire Bowles.  That list will start to happen as the coaching search happens, much like every year. 

But if it really requires a list (which you will no doubt pick apart and state "we can't get this guy" or "this guy is questionable"), fine.  Here's what I've got, in no particular order:

* Harbaugh

* Gruden

* Doug Marrone

* Mike Shula

* Kyle Shanahan

* Jim Bob Cooter

* Mike Smith

* Harold Goodwin

* Offensive-minded college coach who runs a pro style system and has some NFL experience

[loluchka80]

I'd let Bowles coach 1 more year.  

He's in year 2 of a 4 year deal.  Let's see what he does in year 3 and at the end of year 3 you have to make a decision to either extend him or fire him (can't go in to year 4 as a lame duck coach).

They were 10-6 last year, so it's only 1 bad year.  How can you fire a guy after 2 years, and only 1 of those years being bad?

[Pcola]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I never claimed to have all the answers, but this is the kind of post a lot of people make when they have nothing but excuses for why a HC sucks. 

I don't have a full list of HC's that would be better, and I don't know which HC's would even accept an interview.  John Fox refused to interview 2 years ago.  But I DO know that Bowles is terrible at his job, and a long laundry list of excuses doesn't fix our situation here.  He has the worst qualities of some of our worst HC's in our history.  He has zero ability to hold players accountable, has never demonstrated he can "out-gameplan" opposing coaches, and his defense is awful despite former 1st round picks all over the field AND the reputation from AZ that he was great at running defenses.  It's insanity to argue that because WE don't know who the next good HC out there is, that that means we can't fire Bowles.  That list will start to happen as the coaching search happens, much like every year. 

But if it really requires a list (which you will no doubt pick apart and state "we can't get this guy" or "this guy is questionable"), fine.  Here's what I've got, in no particular order:

* Harbaugh

* Gruden

* Doug Marrone

* Mike Shula

* Kyle Shanahan

* Jim Bob Cooter

* Mike Smith

* Harold Goodwin

* Offensive-minded college coach who runs a pro style system and has some NFL experience

With the exception of Harbaugh who is not leaving MI, and Marrone, who currently has a job, none of those names win with our current roster.

And your previous post said there is ALWAYS quality coaches available.  If this was true, how come very few of them make it beyond four years.  I remember how many experts loved Gus Bradley.  I also remember how many people hated Ron Rivera.  

We ae in the pre-stages of a rebuild that will probably take 3 or 4 years.  We will be more attractive a year from now.  With anew HC, you are going to force them to draft Kizer or Watson or throw wasted money at a Glennon type of long shot because fans and owner won't accept rebuilding.  Take short cuts, come up short of playoffs, crash and burn. Rinse and repeat.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Pcola said:

With the exception of Harbaugh who is not leaving MI, and Marrone, who currently has a job, none of those names win with our current roster.

lol ok.  We're done here.  It's like trying to have a cogent discussion with a housecat at this point. 

[deucebag]

40 minutes ago, loluchka80 said:

I'd let Bowles coach 1 more year.  

He's in year 2 of a 4 year deal.  Let's see what he does in year 3 and at the end of year 3 you have to make a decision to either extend him or fire him (can't go in to year 4 as a lame duck coach).

They were 10-6 last year, so it's only 1 bad year.  How can you fire a guy after 2 years, and only 1 of those years being bad?

Yes 10-6 last year was nice, but only TWO of those ten wins were against winning teams.  The Redskins and the Pats.  They beat the Redskins due to it being before Kirk Cousins stopped throwing interceptions.  They beat the Pats because the pats had no running back and were missing Amendola and Edelman - yet it still took overtime to get the win.   So basically 2015 was a mediocre performance.

[Pcola]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol ok.  We're done here.  It's like trying to have a cogent discussion with a housecat at this point. 

Ok.  I guess when you get dismissive when someone doesn't agree with everything you say, you can't have any kind of useful conversation.  

We both want the same thing.  Neither one of us gets a say.  So you don't have to be dick.

[56mehl56]

20 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

+1 ... you build a winner for Jet fans and you will be treated like a god for the rest of your life.

Exactly, some here worship at the feet of Parcells and he might be one of the biggest blowhard egomaniacs in sports history and btw he never won anything here. He rode in to a dire situation acquired all his type Vet players and jumped ship when the bills came due using a lame excuse of ownership. The guy was a great coach with the Giants when there was no cap and he could stock his roster using the Mara's checkbooks.

[faba]

For the team not to be competitive and for a defensive type coach the unit to be  so disappointing yes. we need another fresh start

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, faba said:

For the team not to be competitive and for a defensive type coach the unit to be  so disappointing yes. we need another fresh start

Yes, I agree we need a fresh start , but I believe that fresh start represents a roster gutted of overpaid , aging and uninterested players.

[Big Blocker]

The problem with the Jets is mostly about Woody, so I voted no since firing Bowles will not solve the real problem.  That doesn't mean to be clear I think that Bowles is doing a great job or anything.  Clearly he is not.  I just don't think it accomplishes anything.

[Mike135]

1 hour ago, loluchka80 said:

How can you fire a guy after 2 years, and only 1 of those years being bad?

If you had an investment guy who basically broke even his first year and then lost a $hit ton of your money the second year, would you give him a third year?

And while this is mainly meant as an analogy between football and money, there is also a very real monry-to-money comparison here as well.  

I'd love to hear how much money Woody is losing right now.  He's obviously losing PSL and ticket purchase profits, plus gameday $$$ from the stadium.  But even bigger is the longterm effect of such $hit in comparison to the "local" competition.  Mainly being the Giants and even somewhat the Cheaters.  With the Pats being a division "rival" (haha) in a nearby large city.  We're looking at the potential of a Midgets vs Cheaters superbowl for the 3rd time in under a decade.  All while the Jets charge similar prices to those two teams, and give us results that are nowhere near even competent.

If patience was called for, it should have been with the coach and GM who got you to back-to-back championship games once things went south.  

Having patience with these two fools running things could sink this team to its worst time in history.  And we're talking about the Jets here, so that's saying a lot!  

Hell, let's bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick again while we're at it.  Make it a triple decker $hit sandwich.  

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

I know that firing Bowles may have a negative effect on who will come to take the job, but there are only 32 of these jobs in the NFL, so someone like Todd Haley or the Cowboys OC, Scott Linehan would take it on. I doubt Josh McDaniels would come here, but who knows.

I don't think it would have a negative effect at all. Anyone out there on the inside know what coaches are good coaches or not, knows Bowles is not one of them.. I'm sure they would look more negatively at the jets for the incompetence not to realize that, or indecisive not to fire him now.. I look at what the bills just did to Rex as having a negative effect.. Firing the guy one week before the end just to embarrass him doesn't look good..

[BroadwayBen]

I would really hate to do it, but this season is borderline unforgivable. Don't get me wrong, I said we were a 6 win team going into it, so I didn't expect greatness. Sucking was obvious to me. But the complete lack of effort is really unacceptable. Players look unmotivated and veterans are making egregious mental errors and it's been going on most of the year. Couple that with what I feel is poor game management I don't think I'd have much choice. Disappointing because I did really want to have a successful black HC here in NYC, but things are really bad.

IPersonally I would love to see us bring in Todd Haley. He made his mistakes in KC, he's a great offensive mind, and I just think he's that perfect candidate to get his second shot to do things right. And he's enough of a hardass to change the culture around here.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

+1 for you sir. Could not agree more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[loluchka80]

1 hour ago, deucebag said:

Yes 10-6 last year was nice, but only TWO of those ten wins were against winning teams.  The Redskins and the Pats.  They beat the Redskins due to it being before Kirk Cousins stopped throwing interceptions.  They beat the Pats because the pats had no running back and were missing Amendola and Edelman - yet it still took overtime to get the win.   So basically 2015 was a mediocre performance.

that doesn't change much.  how can you fire a guy after 2 seasons with only 1 of those seasons being bad?  i understand it looks terrible right now, but i think he deserves year 3.

[loluchka80]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

If you had an investment guy who basically broke even his first year and then lost a $hit ton of your money the second year, would you give him a third year?

And while this is mainly meant as an analogy between football and money, there is also a very real monry-to-money comparison here as well.  

I'd love to hear how much money Woody is losing right now.  He's obviously losing PSL and ticket purchase profits, plus gameday $$$ from the stadium.  But even bigger is the longterm effect of such $hit in comparison to the "local" competition.  Mainly being the Giants and even somewhat the Cheaters.  With the Pats being a division "rival" (haha) in a nearby large city.  We're looking at the potential of a Midgets vs Cheaters superbowl for the 3rd time in under a decade.  All while the Jets charge similar prices to those two teams, and give us results that are nowhere near even competent.

If patience was called for, it should have been with the coach and GM who got you to back-to-back championship games once things went south.  

Having patience with these two fools running things could sink this team to its worst time in history.  And we're talking about the Jets here, so that's saying a lot!  

Hell, let's bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick again while we're at it.  Make it a triple decker $hit sandwich.  

i don't like that analogy.  when you hire a new coach you expect some bumps early on you're not expecting returns in the first year or two.  obviously you look for things and improvements, and i know it looks really bad right now, but if the jets had gone 4-12 bowles' first year, then 10-6 this year and missed the playoffs no one would want him fired.  i just don't see how you can completely judge a coach and GM after only 2 seasons.  

[dbatesman]

On 12/26/2016 at 8:30 AM, T0mShane said:

Here's the qualifier, though: we know that Richardson and Wilkerson are talented enough to be near-elite players in this league and they've looked like street free agents under Bowles, so the evidence would seem to suggest that Bowles and his staff aren't exactly getting the best out of the available talent. Hell, even Revis has looked like Don Boyd Odegard under Bowles. Maccagnan may well be a sh*tbag, but it's hard to tell right now.

He spent a second-round pick on Christian Hackenberg. Don't do this.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

He spent a second-round pick on Christian Hackenberg. Don't do this.

Idzik spent a top ten pick on Dee Milliner. Tanny spent a top 5 pick on Vernon Gholston.

 

[dbatesman]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Idzik spent a top ten pick on Dee Milliner. Tanny spent a top 5 pick on Vernon Gholston.

 

And both of them got fired, and deservedly so.

[NYJ37/12]

His comments just now on Leo and Sheldon are reason enough to fire him. Disgraceful.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

And both of them got fired, and deservedly so.

If his biggest blunder is wasting a second round pick on a QB, I would be very happy.

[dbatesman]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

If his biggest blunder is wasting a second round pick on a QB, I would be very happy.

Hard to pick just one to call his biggest.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Hard to pick just one to call his biggest.

That and signing Jarvis Jenkins are his two blunders.

Everything else is hindsight, not questioned at the time by a majority of fans or media (Wilkerson, Fitzpatrick), or injury based

[TheMagicRat]

3 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said:

His comments just now on Leo and Sheldon are reason enough to fire him. Disgraceful.

Sorry if this was already posted, but what did he say?

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said:

His comments just now on Leo and Sheldon are reason enough to fire him. Disgraceful.

What did he say? 

[Esquire]

It would seem unfair to fire Bowles after two years with one of those years being a good year.  But this team could not have been more of an embarrassment in many of the high profile games.  

[Smashmouth]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 9:18 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

And @Smashmouth this is a reply to you as well. 

Keeping Mo and Richardson and Williams instead of parlaying at least one of them into a pick that plugs an actual hole - for 2 yrs and counting - is firable on its face. As was drafting a near-undraftable QB in round 2. As was pissing away 3-4 comp draft picks for non-elite 30-somethings for the "competitive rebuild" 2016 season. As was not locking up Snacks when he was only on a 1 yr $2m tag (with nothing yet saved up to date), and would have jumped at a raise to the $5m range on a multi-yr deal, which would have made him he highest paid 2-down NT in the NFL.

These and many other decisions were not just 20/20 hindsight critiques, nor are they bad moves merely because Bowles is an empty-headed doormat. Had he provided Bowles with decent & non has-been NFL starters at QB, LT, RT, CB, outside pass rusher, even the boob Bowles would look half competent.

MM simply hasn't made nearly enough good moves to offset his so many bad ones, independent of being saddled with Bowles. Because frankly, as horrible a HC as Bowles is, the uncomfortable truth is he's also been saddled with Maccagnan. The guy openly says he wants a speedy defense and his GM provides him a DL consisting of 5 DTs plus a sloth of an old ILB and no serious outside pass rusher. (Not to be outdone, Bowles drops one of the DTs to OLB-ILB, and continually drops his old sloth ILB into coverage no matter how many times it blows up in his face). 

Really, they're both terrible. They need to be fired together so a year or two from now Woody doesn't repeat history & tell MM-replacement interviewees they can't fire the Bowles-replacement HC for his first year (or two).

I see your points but at this stage I think the demise of this team has been much more on the coach than the GM . I think it would be much easier to fire the HC at this stage than the GM I mean at least the GM addressed some needs not everything worked out but once again that could be due to terrible coaching. When I look at a coach who gets beat the same way over and over with no adjustment I can't excuse that. GM's can have a bad year here and there because you never know what your going to get when it comes to players.... coaches need to show something and Bowles showed absolutely nothing I mean how does Kacy Rogers still have a job ? Who is Bowles more loyal too a friend who obviously is in over his head or the NY Jets ?

[Smashmouth]

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

He spent a second-round pick on Christian Hackenberg. Don't do this.

And yet we still know nothing about Hackenberg

[Mike135]

18 minutes ago, loluchka80 said:

i don't like that analogy.  when you hire a new coach you expect some bumps early on you're not expecting returns in the first year or two.  obviously you look for things and improvements, and i know it looks really bad right now, but if the jets had gone 4-12 bowles' first year, then 10-6 this year and missed the playoffs no one would want him fired.  i just don't see how you can completely judge a coach and GM after only 2 seasons.  

In most cases I'd agree.  However you have to have some common sense here and allow for extremes.  Which is what we have here.

Bowles sucks.  On an extreme level.  This team, the one he leads, is an embarrassment to not only themselves and us fans, but the NFL, football as a whole, sports in general, and anyone who gets paid for working.

This team doesn't try.  He has lost them and has proven not to have any leadership qualities.  Without leadership, a coach has nothing.

Some say a QB HAS to be a leader.  Not true.  You'd like him to be, but it's not required.  Other teammates can lead.  A coach though has to be the unquestioned leader.  And obviously Bowles cannot lead.

Again, he seems like a nice guy, but he sucks as a coach.  No good comes from keeping him around now.

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

His comments just now on Leo and Sheldon are reason enough to fire him. Disgraceful.

Must be some comments

No mention of any at NFL.com or Jets.com or ESPN or NYDN or Post.

Did he whisper something to his dog?