Only one thing will prevent Jets from playing Christian Hackenberg -- fear

[section314]

17 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Why do you defend our scouts and front office?  Our track record is a fukkin' joke, especially with drafting QBs.  Or did you forget Bollinger, Clemens, Geno, Sanchez, Nagle and Richard Todd.  I have NO DOUBT that Hack and Petty will be added with this hall of shame list.

All the guys you listed, except Bollinger, were seen as good picks, the future franchise QB of the Jets. Jaws said Clemons was best Qb in that draft, Nagle was trained by Scnellenberger and destroyed Alabama in a bowl game, lots of draft "experts" loved Sanchez, we "stole' Geno when he fell in the draft, Todd was the next Namath, etc. Hack has been hated since the day he was picked, written off before he ever stepped on a field. The fact that everybody hates this guy, based on bad picks by people who were here before, makes me think Macc got this one right. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

That's the thing. Carrying 4 QB's to begin with was crazy. There's no time to develop QB's anymore with the new CBA...drafting someone who was that far behind was puzzling to say the least. IF Hackenberg doesnt improve on his own he's screwed.

That's why QBs hire their own QBs in the offseason to help them with their mechanics.  Someone not affiliated with the CS or team on the QBs dime can work as much as he wants with the QB.

like those other QBs who didn't need a refresh of their mechanics. Like the Mannings did.  Or Tom Brady did.  

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

It has?

Of course not

Draftniks who put in 30 minutes of analysis a week before the draft vs pro scouts and personnel guys who actually watch players live and put in 60 hours or more a week from the beginning of a college season through dozens of pro day workouts.

Not even close to possible

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

For example

Hack started multiple seasons for Penn State and had one great season.....

But wait....the basement draftniks at PFF say he is undraftable.

Wow

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

It has?

Go back and look the our average fan from this sites jets mock drafts from the idzik year.  and weep.

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Go back and look the our average fan from this sites jets mock drafts from the idzik year.  and weep.

And there is some guarantee that a player would have developed the same way in the Jets system how?

[Klecko73isGod]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Go back and look the our average fan from this sites jets mock drafts from the idzik year.  and weep.

And why aren't NFL teams scouring message boards for front office talent?

[section314]

Just now, Klecko73isGod said:

And why aren't NFL teams scouring message boards for front office talent?

They go to WFAN first, and then us.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

The great John Elway drafted a QB in the first with a team good enough to win the SB the year before and pretty much sat him (except for injuries) behind a late round pick (he made) 2 years back. He also tried to resign a guy (apparently offer was a day too late) to an 18 million a year contract that was benched in lieu of another late round pick. Had Lynch been good enough to start day 1, the Broncos would likely be in the playoffs. Maybe Denver should fire Elway for wasting a 1st round pick on a QB that couldn't beat out Siemian. I realize that Elway has the SB win as the GM so he gets more leeway, but still.

Clearly Mac thought Hack was worth a 2nd even though he had to sit for a year. I know a lot of people hated the pick when it happened, but really, let's wait the year and see what happens. I also don't think a 2nd round pick will be the death of Mac. If he does an admirable job next year drafting and in FA and hack doesn't work out, well, 2nd round QBs (as well as 1st round QBs) often don't work out.

If Siemian was no better than 3rd string on his own team - behind two bad QBs in their own right - and he then drafted Lynch, it would be a far more serious offense. And yes, winning a SB the prior year buys him a whole lot more leeway, and deservedly so. There's also the difference that Lynch was not only capable of manning the #2 job (as opposed to the #4 job) as a raw rookie, but this was expected.

Lastly, there's the question of value. Lynch was expected to go earlier than 25. Rumors in the last days leading up to the draft suggested if a team wanted Lynch they'd have to trade up into the top 10 to get him. To take him at 25 wasn't too risky for him. Not to mention Elway gets that much more benefit of the doubt as a HOF QB himself.

To take Hackenberg - a boom or bust pick - in round 2, well higher than expected, and have him so far turn out as bad as feared, is why he's getting this criticism. If Hackenberg turns things around and becomes a decent starter - not even a great starter, just a pretty good one - Maccagnan will be vindicated. Unfortunately for us, there's no evidence to suggest he's on this path.

I will be a far happier fan if Hackenberg is the real deal and makes me eat my words about Maccagnan.

[Klecko73isGod]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If Siemian was no better than 3rd string on his own team - behind two bad QBs in their own right - and he then drafted Lynch, it would be a far more serious offense. And yes, winning a SB the prior year buys him a whole lot more leeway, and deservedly so. There's also the difference that Lynch was not only capable of manning the #2 job (as opposed to the #4 job) as a raw rookie, but this was expected.

Lastly, there's the question of value. Lynch was expected to go earlier than 25. Rumors in the last days leading up to the draft suggested if a team wanted Lynch they'd have to trade up into the top 10 to get him. To take him at 25 wasn't too risky for him. Not to mention Elway gets that much more benefit of the doubt as a HOF QB himself.

To take Hackenberg - a boom or bust pick - in round 2, well higher than expected, and have him so far turn out as bad as feared, is why he's getting this criticism. If Hackenberg turns things around and becomes a decent starter - not even a great starter, just a pretty good one - Maccagnan will be vindicated. Unfortunately for us, there's no evidence to suggest he's on this path.

I will be a far happier fan if Hackenberg is the real deal and makes me eat my words about Maccagnan.

The really screwed up part is that we, as fans, don't know that he's not on that path either. Right now should anyone take any stock in the opinions of the Jets coaching staff when it comes to QB play?

I want to see Hackenberg play. If he sucks. he sucks. One game really isn't gonna tell us much either way. However, playing Hackenberg will be much more productive in the long run than running Fitz out there to stink the joint up. 

I want a reason to watch the Jets this Sunday. Please give me one Todd. 

[Jetster]

27 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

The great John Elway drafted a QB in the first with a team good enough to win the SB the year before and pretty much sat him (except for injuries) behind a late round pick (he made) 2 years back. He also tried to resign a guy (apparently offer was a day too late) to an 18 million a year contract that was benched in lieu of another late round pick. Had Lynch been good enough to start day 1, the Broncos would likely be in the playoffs. Maybe Denver should fire Elway for wasting a 1st round pick on a QB that couldn't beat out Siemian. I realize that Elway has the SB win as the GM so he gets more leeway, but still.

Clearly Mac thought Hack was worth a 2nd even though he had to sit for a year. I know a lot of people hated the pick when it happened, but really, let's wait the year and see what happens. I also don't think a 2nd round pick will be the death of Mac. If he does an admirable job next year drafting and in FA and hack doesn't work out, well, 2nd round QBs (as well as 1st round QBs) often don't work out.

At least Macc took a stab at a QB again in round 2 instead of Mike Nugent, Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse. Taking Genos immature azz was just one more mistake that Idzik couldn't pass up. I wouldn't have taken Geno because his calves were way too skinny. Any person who plays athletics as long as Geno & doesn't put in some gym work on those weak azz calves doesn't have the drive to be his ultimate best. At least get implants.

[bostonmajet]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If Siemian was no better than 3rd string on his own team - behind two bad QBs in their own right - and he then drafted Lynch, it would be a far more serious offense. And yes, winning a SB the prior year buys him a whole lot more leeway, and deservedly so. There's also the difference that Lynch was not only capable of manning the #2 job (as opposed to the #4 job) as a raw rookie, but this was expected.

Lastly, there's the question of value. Lynch was expected to go earlier than 25. Rumors in the last days leading up to the draft suggested if a team wanted Lynch they'd have to trade up into the top 10 to get him. To take him at 25 wasn't too risky for him. Not to mention Elway gets that much more benefit of the doubt as a HOF QB himself.

To take Hackenberg - a boom or bust pick - in round 2, well higher than expected, and have him so far turn out as bad as feared, is why he's getting this criticism. If Hackenberg turns things around and becomes a decent starter - not even a great starter, just a pretty good one - Maccagnan will be vindicated. Unfortunately for us, there's no evidence to suggest he's on this path.

I will be a far happier fan if Hackenberg is the real deal and makes me eat my words about Maccagnan.

Personally I thought we drafted Hack too high, but clearly Mac saw something. My problem isn't with people not liking the pick, my problem is that many people say that you don't draft a guy as high as the second round and not play him. Or judging the player based on the fact that they want to redshirt him. The #1 pick in the draft didn't start until the 9th or 10th game.

I get that people don't like the pick at all. I get that people don't like Hack in the 2nd. I understand the people see Dak play and think Macc messed up by not drafting  him in the 6th instead of Hack in the 2nd. But to assume that the player sucks because he hasn't played (even though Mac said he wasn't going to play with he picked him) and that he is automatically a bust and the death of Mac I find puzzling.

[bostonmajet]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If Siemian was no better than 3rd string on his own team - behind two bad QBs in their own right - and he then drafted Lynch, it would be a far more serious offense. And yes, winning a SB the prior year buys him a whole lot more leeway, and deservedly so. There's also the difference that Lynch was not only capable of manning the #2 job (as opposed to the #4 job) as a raw rookie, but this was expected.

Lastly, there's the question of value. Lynch was expected to go earlier than 25. Rumors in the last days leading up to the draft suggested if a team wanted Lynch they'd have to trade up into the top 10 to get him. To take him at 25 wasn't too risky for him. Not to mention Elway gets that much more benefit of the doubt as a HOF QB himself.

To take Hackenberg - a boom or bust pick - in round 2, well higher than expected, and have him so far turn out as bad as feared, is why he's getting this criticism. If Hackenberg turns things around and becomes a decent starter - not even a great starter, just a pretty good one - Maccagnan will be vindicated. Unfortunately for us, there's no evidence to suggest he's on this path.

I will be a far happier fan if Hackenberg is the real deal and makes me eat my words about Maccagnan.

Unless he gets a career ending injury behind that OL. With Fitz on the team, the odds of Hack getting hurt during the game is like 99%.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

The really screwed up part is that we, as fans, don't know that he's not on that path either. Right now should anyone take any stock in the opinions of the Jets coaching staff when it comes to QB play?

I want to see Hackenberg play. If he sucks. he sucks. One game really isn't gonna tell us much either way. However, playing Hackenberg will be much more productive in the long run than running Fitz out there to stink the joint up. 

I want a reason to watch the Jets this Sunday. Please give me one Todd. 

I don't disagree with this at all. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Unless he gets a career ending injury behind that OL. With Fitz on the team, the odds of Hack getting hurt during the game is like 99%.

99%

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

The really screwed up part is that we, as fans, don't know that he's not on that path either. Right now should anyone take any stock in the opinions of the Jets coaching staff when it comes to QB play?

I want to see Hackenberg play. If he sucks. he sucks. One game really isn't gonna tell us much either way. However, playing Hackenberg will be much more productive in the long run than running Fitz out there to stink the joint up. 

I want a reason to watch the Jets this Sunday. Please give me one Todd. 

The really, really screwed up part is that there were Jet players that wanted Fitzpatrick back this year. NFL players with pedigree.

If I can't trust NFL players, how am I supposed to trust fans on a Jet site (albeit a very good Jet site)

[Jet Nut]

On 12/27/2016 at 1:58 PM, Matt39 said:

He has trouble gripping the football. Watch YouTube, read some scouts on him. Not difficult. 

Funny, just watched a report on him yesterday, the Giants game.  Plenty of nice tight spirals.  Not that it means squat.  Ever watch how few wobblers Geno throws?  Or how many others throw?  Jameis Winston doesn't throw tight spirals, has no problem being a top QB prospect. Hand size had nothing to do with it.  He's 6' 5" doubt his hands are smaller than a Brees.  He has no issues throwing.  Would love to hear how a quarter inch different hand size is going to change anything 

[Matt39]

23 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Funny, just watched a report on him yesterday, the Giants game.  Plenty of nice tight spirals.  Not that it means squat.  Ever watch how few wobblers Geno throws?  Or how many others throw?  Jameis Winston doesn't throw tight spirals, has no problem being a top QB prospect. Hand size had nothing to do with it.  He's 6' 5" doubt his hands are smaller than a Brees.  He has no issues throwing.  Would love to hear how a quarter inch different hand size is going to change anything 

Brees and Wilson both have hands over 10 inches. Winston does have small hands and has ball security issues.

[Bugg]

On 12/27/2016 at 2:19 PM, Klecko73isGod said:

The really screwed up part is that we, as fans, don't know that he's not on that path either. Right now should anyone take any stock in the opinions of the Jets coaching staff when it comes to QB play?

I want to see Hackenberg play. If he sucks. he sucks. One game really isn't gonna tell us much either way. However, playing Hackenberg will be much more productive in the long run than running Fitz out there to stink the joint up. 

I want a reason to watch the Jets this Sunday. Please give me one Todd. 

At a loss why an offense that's been run heavy all season cannot be so on Sunday. Scoreboard is irrelevant. The game doesn't much matter. You can dumb it down all you want. Don't need to see him air it out even once. Getting Hack's feet wet would be a good thing. You don't have to ask him to do much, you can max protect all day, dumpoff all you want. Simply get him out there and let's see what he does in the speed of a real NFL game. Heck, they did that with Petty vs. the Rams. It's basically and exhibition for both clubs  anyway.  

[Bugg]

On 12/27/2016 at 2:23 PM, bostonmajet said:

Unless he gets a career ending injury behind that OL. With Fitz on the team, the odds of Hack getting hurt during the game is like 99%.

Not like the Jets have been an old time AFL mad bomber passing attack all year(spare the series when suddenly inside the 20s Gailey/Fitz were suddenly refusing to run the ball). Witness exactly the offensive 'attack" they employed for Petty's start against the Rams. Nobody is gonna be upset if he gets fewer than 25 pass attempts. Nobody is gonna be upset if you run 6 OL max protect sets or keep a back or 2 in every passing play(since we barely have any TEs). Get him out there and get him acclimated to the speed on an NFL game. 

[bostonmajet]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

Not like the Jets have been an old time AFL mad bomber passing attack all year. Witness exactly the offensive 'attack" they employed for Petty's start against the Rams. Nobody is gonna be upset if he gets fewer than 25 pass attempts. Nobody is gonna be upset if you run 6 OL max protect sets or keep a back or 2 in every passing play(since we barely have any TEs). Get him out there and get him acclimated to the speed on an NFL game. 

First of all, my comment was mostly a joke about Fitz being a jinx on QBs playing ahead of him. Secondly, we lost Petty for the year on a RUNNING play. Also, you need healthy able linemen to go max protect. We barely have 3 good OL playing, let alone 6. Add in the fact, that handing the ball off isn't going to get him any experience or give you any looks.

Finally - He isn't ready; they are going to red shirt him if they can. This was the plan from the second they drafted him; the team sucking just doesn't change that.

 

All that being said if he gets some snaps int he 4th Q or Fitz gets hurt I have no problem sending him in. But, wholly crap what a terrible offseason it is going to be if Hack steps in and doesn't earn rookie of the week status. People have been calling him a bust for being 'red shirted' all year. They have been calling for Mac's head. But, yeah, let's play a guy everyone says isn't ready just to make a few fans happy. Just watch this site crash on his very first mistake (or not perfect pass).

[Jet Nut]

38 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Brees and Wilson both have hands over 10 inches. Winston does have small hands and has ball security issues.

I didn't mention Wilson.  I'm betting that Brees at under 6 ft tall doesn't have hands that are much bigger, if any, than the 6'5" Hack or Winston.  Not seeing the ball security issues that Winston has. Geno has big hands and fumble issues, so did Sanchez.  Regardless, if you believe it's simply an extra 1/4 to 1/2 inch hand size so be it

[Klecko73isGod]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

At a loss why an offense that's been run heavy all season cannot be so on Sunday. Scoreboard is irrelevant. The game doesn't much matter. You can dumb it down all you want. Don't need to see him air it out even once. Getting Hack's feet wet would be a good thing. You don't have to ask him to do much, you can max protect all day, dumpoff all you want. Simply get him out there and let's see what he does in the speed of a real NFL game. Heck, they did that with Petty vs. the Rams. It's basically and exhibition for both clubs  anyway.  

Exactly. There is literally nothing to be gained from so much as allowing Fitz in the stadium.

For those saying "it's only one game" my answer would be this - every game should have a value. If Fitz plays the whole game this game will have no value whatsoever. Like you said, even if it just for getting Hack the real game experience it would be valuable. 

Not to mention that if you think he doesn't have the goods at all and goes out there and its Fitz-level terrible, it makes it that much easier to cut him loose in the offseason.

There is no downside to playing Hack at all. There is no upside to playing Fitz. 

Seems like an easy decision to me. 

[CrazyCarl40]

12 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Exactly. There is literally nothing to be gained from so much as allowing Fitz in the stadium.

For those saying "it's only one game" my answer would be this - every game should have a value. If Fitz plays the whole game this game will have no value whatsoever. Like you said, even if it just for getting Hack the real game experience it would be valuable. 

Not to mention that if you think he doesn't have the goods at all and goes out there and its Fitz-level terrible, it makes it that much easier to cut him loose in the offseason.

There is no downside to playing Hack at all. There is no upside to playing Fitz. 

Seems like an easy decision to me. 

Well besides the fact that neither of those things are true, you've got it. I mean let's take the young shellshocked QB and put him behind a make shift offensive line with little to no running game and see what happens! Petty got hurt only each of the last three games. That definitely couldn't happen to Hack. Not at all. Also, the upside to playing Fitz is that it protects their investment and the young receivers can at least have a hope that Fitz can get them the ball and offensive lineman can rely on him for making the right protection calls to make their life easier. 

[Klecko73isGod]

11 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Well besides the fact that neither of those things are true, you've got it. I mean let's take the young shellshocked QB and put him behind a make shift offensive line with little to no running game and see what happens! Petty got hurt only each of the last three games. That definitely couldn't happen to Hack. Not at all. Also, the upside to playing Fitz is that it protects their investment and the young receivers can at least have a hope that Fitz can get them the ball and offensive lineman can rely on him for making the right protection calls to make their life easier. 

Where is the rolling eyes handjob emoji when you need it?

This is, for all intents and purposes, an exhibition game. As such, both teams should approach it that way. Winning isn't as important as evaluating. You can not evaluate a player's progress accurately without seeing him in live game action.

We know what we don't have in Fitz. 

We only have a faint idea of what we don't have in Hackenberg.

Hackenberg is going to have to demonstrate the ability to make the right protection calls at some point, correct? What better time to determine whether or not he is capable of doing so than in a meaningful meaningless game like the one the Jets will be participating in on Sunday?

This isn't rocket science. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Where is the rolling eyes handjob emoji when you need it?

This is, for all intents and purposes, an exhibition game. As such, both teams should approach it that way. Winning isn't as important as evaluating. You can not evaluate a player's progress accurately without seeing him in live game action.

We know what we don't have in Fitz. 

We only have a faint idea of what we don't have in Hackenberg.

Hackenberg is going to have to demonstrate the ability to make the right protection calls at some point, correct? What better time to determine whether or not he is capable of doing so than in a meaningful meaningless game like the one the Jets will be participating in on Sunday?

This isn't rocket science. 

 

The coaches have seen him since April week in and week out and they've determined it'd be detrimental to his season to play. If he isn't ready, there is no sense in forcing it. He has all offseason and training camp and then they'll assess from there. That's what's best for the player and team. Period. 

[Saul Goodman]

14 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

 

This is, for all intents and purposes, an exhibition game. As such, both teams should approach it that way. 

 

You must be joking?? If not, you couldn't be more wrong. Bowles and Lynn desperately want to win this game. Approach it as an exhibition game LOL. 

[Klecko73isGod]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The coaches have seen him since April week in and week out and they've determined it'd be detrimental to his season to play. If he isn't ready, there is no sense in forcing it. He has all offseason and training camp and then they'll assess from there. That's what's best for the player and team. Period. 

Yes... because as I have stated before, can you really trust this coaching staff's assessment of quarterback play? 

If I were Woody I'd be ordering them to play Hackenberg Sunday. 

[Klecko73isGod]

4 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

You must be joking?? If not, you couldn't be more wrong. Bowles and Lynn desperately want to win this game. Approach it as an exhibition game LOL. 

For Bowles it definitely is. He isn't getting fired. Going 10-6 in year one bought him at least two years. 

As far as Lynn is concerned he is almost certainly going to be interviewed for the Bills job and he is almost certainly not going to get it. The outcome of this game is not likely to have any effect on his status. 

 

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Yes... because as I have stated before, can you really trust this coaching staff's assessment of quarterback play? 

If I were Woody I'd be ordering them to play Hackenberg Sunday. 

Neither you, nor Woody have any experience in developing a QB, do you?

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, NoBowles said:

Neither you, nor Woody have any experience in developing a QB, do you?

From the looks of it, no one working for the Jets does.

[NoBowles]

Just now, Klecko73isGod said:

From the looks of it, no one working for the Jets does.

Probably true, but the last person I want ordering anything football related is our asshat moron owner.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Yes... because as I have stated before, can you really trust this coaching staff's assessment of quarterback play? 

If I were Woody I'd be ordering them to play Hackenberg Sunday. 

Yes because meddling owners is always good for business. 

This staff wanted to hold off on Petty and now we've all seen why. I'm sure they have their reasons for holding off on Hack. Playing him Sunday would accomplish nothing. 

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes because meddling owners is always good for business. 

This staff wanted to hold off on Petty and now we've all seen why. I'm sure they have their reasons for holding off on Hack. Playing him Sunday would accomplish nothing. 

WRONG.

[FlagmanL11]

Because he can't hit the side of a barn from 10 feet away... Obviously he sucks worse that anyone of us can imagine...