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Paradis

"He's not an NFL Quarterback. It's just that simple"

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23 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said:

Ryan Leaf had the measurables and an  NFL arm...so did Jeff George... and JaMarcus Russell, for that matter...Ryan Mallett, Matt Cassell, Matt Flynn, Blake Bortles the list goes on  

Truth is nearly all drafted QBs do... doesn't stop any of them from being busts. The NFL is like no other level of football they've played; the athleticism, size, strength and speed that separated them from the pack in college no longer provide that cushion...and they have to learn how to play QB for real. Some can; most struggle...and many never get to the place where the  game slows down enough for them to consistently make plays 

And that just proves the point that for all intents and purposes the draft is a crapshoot. Which is why I have no problem with a 2nd round pick on Hack, he clearly has part of the equation , does the rest fall into place ?? - but all it takes is being right or lucky one time. There are very few can't miss prospects , but there are guys like Favre ,Brees, Brady, Montana, Fouts who weren't picked in round1 that developed into great QB's.  At the current rookie salary scale it doesn't hurt  NFL teams to miss like in the years where rookies had crazy lucrative initial contracts.

  Bottom line, we should all be hoping Hack becomes a franchise QB regardless of what any of our prognostications are.

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5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Personally, I'd rather have a sh*tty QB locked up for one year rather than two, but that's just me. Osweiller sucks, sucked last year, and Elway lucked his ass off that he went somewhere else. Elway had Manning fall into his lap, other than that, he has not shown that being a great QB makes him able to identify great QB's.  

So he's lucked out by getting rid of tebow to us, lucked out by being an attractive franchise for Manning to come to (fell into his lap lol wtf), lucked out with 2 SB appearances, lucked out with winning one, lucked out letting Osweiler go, lucked out with a 7th round QB being better than our 4th

Fcking lucky guy indeed.

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This season has everybody a little tense I see. When are we bringing medical marijuana to the tri-state area?

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7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Yes it does. Your reducing the situation and colouring it in your favor.

If your name is jaylon smith and you OWNED college ball, then yea. You can blow a top 50 pick on a guy who's getting redshirted. If you were a QB who sucked most of college and can't contribute even after 3 injuries.. you're not getting picked in the top 50... unless you get picked by the jets. 

That's absurd. What you did in college in no harbinger of what the player will become in the pros. There are numerous Heisman trophy winners that never sniffed an NFL game likewise there are UDFA's  that have gone on to be All-Pro players. Sure you'd like a 2nd round pick to contribute in the year he's drafted but can we hold off on calling him a bust until he actually plays.

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That's absurd. What you did in college in no harbinger of what the player will become in the pros. There are numerous Heisman trophy winners that never sniffed an NFL game likewise there are UDFA's  that have gone on to be All-Pro players. Sure you'd like a 2nd round pick to contribute in the year he's drafted but can we hold off on calling him a bust until he actually plays.


Being a winner in college doesn't mean you're a winner in the NFL. Completely agree. You know what list is even smaller? And by smaller I mean nonexistent? Losers.


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5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

And that just proves the point that for all intents and purposes the draft is a crapshoot.

That's only true to a point. You have much, much better odds in the first 2 rounds than the rest. 

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20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

No i think John Elway has a clue what he doing. He drafted Siemen in the 7th (we drafted Petty in the 4th). Guess what - turns out Siemen looks OK... not a world beater, but OK. How's Petty look after a year? Sure as fck not as good as Siemen. 

Let's see what next year brings with Lynch vs Hackenburg... I think i know where vegas will sit on that one.

thanks for coming out. 

the clue that elway has is he wasn't afraid to not fold into osweiler's demands and go with siemen.  that the texans folded is surprising because osweiler is really not that good.  more teams need to realize that the qb may be the  most important position but that it's also one of the ones that's very hard to assess, at least until game day comes.

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3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

That's only true to a point. You have much, much better odds in the first 2 rounds than the rest. 

I posted a list of 2016 2nd round draft picks in one of the threads , perhaps even this one. There's only a handful of guys that stood out . I'm sure it applies to previous years as well. I would believe the much better odds fall into the top end of the 1st round. After that, like I said crapshoot.

 

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7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 


Being a winner in college doesn't mean you're a winner in the NFL. Completely agree. You know what list is even smaller? And by smaller I mean nonexistent? Losers.


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So now your saying that there are no star players in the NFL that played for a losing college team :lol:.

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16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

So he's lucked out by getting rid of tebow to us, lucked out by being an attractive franchise for Manning to come to (fell into his lap lol wtf), lucked out with 2 SB appearances, lucked out with winning one, lucked out letting Osweiler go, lucked out with a 7th round QB being better than our 4th

Fcking lucky guy indeed.

Hey, Giants have 2 SB's based purely on luck. NFL is a game of inches, when the NFL loves you, the ball bounces your way.

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So now your saying that there are no star players in the NFL that played for a losing college team :lol:.


We're talking quarterbacks and yes. I understand if you confused Hackenburg for another position


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13 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the clue that elway has is he wasn't afraid to not fold into osweiler's demands and go with siemen.  that the texans folded is surprising because osweiler is really not that good.  more teams need to realize that the qb may be the  most important position but that it's also one of the ones that's very hard to assess, at least until game day comes.

Apparently, Elway tried to match the offer, but was too late. So, better lucky than good, right.

 

13 minutes ago, rangerous said:

No i think John Elway has a clue what he doing. He drafted Siemen in the 7th (we drafted Petty in the 4th). Guess what - turns out Siemen looks OK... not a world beater, but OK. How's Petty look after a year? Sure as fck not as good as Siemen. 

Let's see what next year brings with Lynch vs Hackenburg... I think i know where vegas will sit on that one.

As for Siemian being better than Petty. That may be true, but he clearly plays on a better team (good enough to win the SB without a QB). So, put Siemian and Dak on the Jets and I am sure that you would get the same pile of smelly crap.

As for Lynch being better than Hack. Everyone says that drafting order is soooo important. Wouldn't you expect a first round pick to play better than a second round pick?

For all I know, Petty may suck and Hack may suck. But, can we please at least argue with the facts and show some consistency. We make excuses for Geno playing with a crappy team and then say Petty doesn't get a break for playing with a crappy OL. Elway sits a QB for a year, and he is a genius, Mac does it and he is crap. Petty holds the ball too long and in his 2nd year, 4th start it shows he will never have what it takes, Geno holds the ball for 2 years and it is okay.

At some point, it would be nice to be consistent with our criticism and praise of our players. Just saying...

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32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

lol yeah your prize 2nd round pick running the scout team, the coaches themselves said he gets zero real reps during the week,  The oc said that they are not making any adjustments to his mechanics at all this year.

Yea, I wanted him, and I was willing to trade down and take him with a late 1st and still sit him for 2 yrs .  I like the talent of the player, and was and still is willing to invest time in developing him .The mental part of the game is sometimes the most difficult to learn, and this kid has shown that he can handle that part . He has the physical attributes and for the most part, to my knowledge he appears to be a good kid with a likeable personality .

He needs reprogramming, and I am proud of this regime for not knuckling under to fan and media pressure to rush this kid onto the playing field  . It's time we quit the reactionary BS and develop a QB and a coaching staff . 

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42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

lol yeah your prize 2nd round pick running the scout team, the coaches themselves said he gets zero real reps during the week,  The oc said that they are not making any adjustments to his mechanics at all this year.

Are you questioning that he has been running the scout team?

It's apparent that unless he is playing on Sunday's you feel this year has been a waste of time.

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1 minute ago, C Mart said:

Are you questioning that he has been running the scout team?

It's apparent that unless he is playing on Sunday's you feel this year has been a waste of time.

No I'm questioning the 'plan'  Others are asking how i know there is not real plan and I'm saying there is zero evidence there is a plan.  The lowest ranked qb on the roster always runs the scout team, nothing earth shattering there.

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"He’s learning every day about when to throw the ball, how to throw the ball," Gailey said. "Up here it’s different than it is in college. He’s learning a great deal. It’s hard to say specifically, but he’s gotten better. To me, he’s gotten better every week. He understands the game better. He understands the defenses better. He understands protections better. That’s all a part of the growth process."

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65256/rookie-qb-christian-hackenberg-remains-mystery-man-to-jets-coaches

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 


We're talking quarterbacks and yes. I understand if you confused Hackenburg for another position


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your right there's not a lot of good drafted QB's from losing colleges.

 

But how about: Roger Staubach - 1964 Navy 3-6-1,

Warren Moon 1976  Washington 5-6 ,

Scott  Mitchell 1989 Utah 4-8

Jake Locker 2007 Washington 4-7

And that's with very minimal research.

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4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

"He’s learning every day about when to throw the ball, how to throw the ball," Gailey said. "Up here it’s different than it is in college. He’s learning a great deal. It’s hard to say specifically, but he’s gotten better. To me, he’s gotten better every week. He understands the game better. He understands the defenses better. He understands protections better. That’s all a part of the growth process."

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65256/rookie-qb-christian-hackenberg-remains-mystery-man-to-jets-coaches

 

 

We're wasting our time with these knuckle heads . On the one hand, the regime is a clown show and or laughing stock if there are leaks everywhere . On the other hand, the regime is clueless if the fans don't know every nugget about what's going on in the locker room and on the practice field .

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49 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I posted a list of 2016 2nd round draft picks in one of the threads , perhaps even this one. There's only a handful of guys that stood out . I'm sure it applies to previous years as well. I would believe the much better odds fall into the top end of the 1st round. After that, like I said crapshoot.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/2/#729cff733cff

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2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Interesting the chart says that your better off with a UDFA than a 3rd-7th rd pick as your more likely to get a starter but even the 2nd round at 17.5% is extrermely low The fact that only 30% of round 1 players( 1 in 3)  become starters really drives home the point - crapshoot.

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5 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Fire Bowles

Anyone else ? By the way, are you related to Joewilly the poster here .?

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16 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

We're wasting our time with these knuckle heads . On the one hand, the regime is a clown show and or laughing stock if there are leaks everywhere . On the other hand, the regime is clueless if the fans don't know every nugget about what's going on in the locker room and on the practice field .

Agree. The amazing thing is I don't believe anyone here is saying Hack is going to be the guy. They are just saying let's reserve judgment and allow this regime the time to try and develop a QB (for a change). But there are so many here that already "know" he won't be and they can't wait for that day to tell everyone, even when it means the Jets will still be looking for a QB.

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Interesting the chart says that your better off with a UDFA than a 3rd-7th rd pick as your more likely to get a starter but even the 2nd round at 17.5% is extrermely low The fact that only 30% of round 1 players( 1 in 3)  become starters really drives home the point - crapshoot.

Giving up your best chances at a contributing player for a 0% chance is not a wise proposition. Your very idea of crapshoot kills itself because that would imply that if you just go in and pick any draft eligible player then that's all good. That's...well...an interesting take. 

The data shows that you should not waste your 1-3 round picks and take "flyers" anywhere in the 4th of after. 

You'll also notice when you go to the % of games played, that 1st round is 67%..2nd and 3rd about 33% then 4th round is 6%. So if you have a guy that you don't think can play without sitting for a significant period of time then he's a 4th round pick. 

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24 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Agree. The amazing thing is I don't believe anyone here is saying Hack is going to be the guy. They are just saying let's reserve judgment and allow this regime the time to try and develop a QB (for a change). But there are so many here that already "know" he won't be and they can't wait for that day to tell everyone, even when it means the Jets will still be looking for a QB.

Odd for a Fan of the Jets isn't it  ?

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1 hour ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

This thread was going along fairly nicely with relatively intelligent posts until...

dd showed up

and did his act

Lolz

 

Hey bump this thread when Hack throws a td in a NFL regular season game

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2 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Apparently, Elway tried to match the offer, but was too late. So, better lucky than good, right.

 

As for Siemian being better than Petty. That may be true, but he clearly plays on a better team (good enough to win the SB without a QB). So, put Siemian and Dak on the Jets and I am sure that you would get the same pile of smelly crap.

As for Lynch being better than Hack. Everyone says that drafting order is soooo important. Wouldn't you expect a first round pick to play better than a second round pick?

For all I know, Petty may suck and Hack may suck. But, can we please at least argue with the facts and show some consistency. We make excuses for Geno playing with a crappy team and then say Petty doesn't get a break for playing with a crappy OL. Elway sits a QB for a year, and he is a genius, Mac does it and he is crap. Petty holds the ball too long and in his 2nd year, 4th start it shows he will never have what it takes, Geno holds the ball for 2 years and it is okay.

At some point, it would be nice to be consistent with our criticism and praise of our players. Just saying...

I agree. This doesn't apply to me, personally. I've consistent from the start. Petty playing in a losing effort has nothing to do with my assessment. This team is clearly in shambles and everyone's performance is being graded with a curve based on the surrounding parts. What Petty has shown that has nothing to do with the team is his utter lack of touch and accuracy on deep throws, poor vision and inability to make a read. You can't be an innaccurate gunslinger with no touch, AND a poor game manager who can't read a defense. Both means Superbowls, one or the other means we can gameplan and get by. Petty is neither. 

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2 hours ago, C Mart said:

Agree. The amazing thing is I don't believe anyone here is saying Hack is going to be the guy. They are just saying let's reserve judgment and allow this regime the time to try and develop a QB (for a change). But there are so many here that already "know" he won't be and they can't wait for that day to tell everyone, even when it means the Jets will still be looking for a QB.

Sh*t, I might be Hackenberg's biggest fan on this entire forum and I'm salivating at the idea of possibly having a high draft pick if he fails and we suck again in 2017.  Not saying that I want us to fail, just that all the big names excite me next year. 

Ideally though, I hope he finally is the guy.

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7 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Hackenberg stinks and has shown 0 progress in practices with reps

 

Cody Friggin Kessler, the Browns rookie backup, is better 

 

And you have absolutely no tangible evidence to support the second half of the statement. None. Nada, Zilch. 

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7 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Oh wow!

My post was in reference to the other poster who said that everyone at PSU hated Hackenberg. If that were the case (like with Connor Cook the year before), I seriously doubt that PSU would have named him captain 2x in his 3 years there. 

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4 hours ago, Paradis said:

No GM should be allowed to blow a top 50 pick on a guy he plans to get nothing out of in the immediate future -- to the extent that injuries be damned. No GM. If he's name was Jaylon Smith, different story. But his name is Hackenburg and he was mostly BRUTAL in college. 

So no Greenwave. That's not a good reason. 

If nothing means not playing in 2016, that is what mcc said (to the media and hack) since the day they picked him..

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