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"He's not an NFL Quarterback. It's just that simple"


Paradis
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Just now, Joejet said:

I'm not sure why you are angry.  I just asked for a simple explanation which you provided after your little tantrum.  It wasn't obvious based on how you wrote it in your earlier posts which is why I asked for an explanation.  I won't bother you again.

I'm not angry at all. That was not a tantrum. Bother me anytime. I'll be glad to show you the light. 

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14 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

THANK YOU TIN! IT's not as easy as it sounds and lots of posters here think it's a simple Madden Plug & Play. 

 

I don't know what's worse: Goodell ruining the NFL OR the neophyte, born AFTER 1989 & when FA was FINALLY allowed in the NFL ignorant "fans" that have been ruined by Madden Video games over the past 22 years. :rolleyes:

Wow what an intelligent post.  "I disagree with you so you must be 12 and play Madden!"

 

Enjoy watching Petty and Hack embarass themselves next year.  Both are horrible.

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Just now, drdetroit said:

Wow what an intelligent post.  "I disagree with you so you must be 12 and play Madden!"

 

 

Where EXACTLY are YOU addressed in that reply? I replied to Tinstar since his post correlated to your assumption that it's "Easy" to fix the QB problem. Tints pretty much stated the "intelligence" aspect and I agreed w/his statement. 

if YOU want to include yourself in that grouping of idiot NFL neophyte fans, be my guest and take offense. 

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Just now, Gas2No99 said:

Where EXACTLY are YOU addressed in that reply? I replied to Tinstar since his post correlated to your assumption that it's "Easy" to fix the QB problem. Tints pretty much stated the "intelligence" aspect and I agreed w/his statement. 

if YOU want to include yourself in that grouping of idiot NFL neophyte fans, be my guest and take offense. 

 

So go ahead and call everyone who doesn't think a one-read qb who can't read a defense to save his life like Bryce Petty is the next Brady a neophyte.

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58 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

 

So go ahead and call everyone who doesn't think a one-read qb who can't read a defense to save his life like Bryce Petty is the next Brady a neophyte.

Will do.

Also LOVE how you improvise a false citation of "a one-read qb who can't read a defense to save his life like Bryce Petty is the next Brady" since I NEVER stated that and please feel free to show the post where I did. amateur. :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

John Elway just won a super bowl. He can take a QB whenever he wants. He had other options to bring Lynch along slowly. Macc hasn't done anything and his options at the draft were Petty and Geno. 

Okay, then don't bother trying with false facts to prove you case. Elway can do whatever he wants, Mac can't got it.

Mac drafted a developmental QB in hopes of him becoming the guy; considering we were as bad as we have been for a while and will still not be drafting #1 or #2 this is only way we are going to get a QB (by taking a chance). If you think we should wait until the team is pretty stacked (not too many holes), I would say he won't have the job that long. He wasn't drafted to compete and failed, he was drafted to sit. He was #4 as they weren't ready to start Petty but didn't want to let him go. Personally, I think we should have released Geno and had Petty at #2 (until he got hurt). You don't like it fine. The only problem is that we haven't won a SB in 40+ years, so I guess the GM can't take a chance. That is a good way to never get back into the SB. 

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Jesus Christ, is this stupid.



Agree 100%

The kid is 21 but a bust because they took it slowly with his rookie season. Meanwhile many of the loudest are those who cursed the Jets for ruining QBs Sanchez (1st round) and Smith (2nd round) by rushing them into starting as rookies.

Damned if they do and if they don't in the weird and negative world of the working media and some of our draft "expert" fans
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1 minute ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

 

 


Agree 100%

The kid is 21 but a bust because they took it slowly with his rookie season. Meanwhile many of the loudest are those who cursed the Jets for ruining QBs Sanchez (1st round) and Smith (2nd round) by rushing them into starting as rookies.

Damned if they do and if they don't in the weird and negative world of the working media and some of our draft "expert" fans

 

 

Can I bump this thread when Hackenberg gets cut in 9 months after looking like sh_t again in preseason?

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2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Well,the following disagree with you:

1. Matt Ryan - Special player who played in a pro style offense at BC

2. Tom Brady - Sat 2 years behind Drew Bledsoe

3. Andrew Luck -  Played in pro style offense at Stanford  and still needed his 1st full year to get acclimated to the NFL

4. Marcus Mariota  -  Beginning to show his potential after struggling through a rough rookie year

5. Joe Flacco -

6. Cam Newton - Incomplete but on the upswing

7. Andy Dalton -

8. Dak Prescott =  All I will say about Prescott is that Mark Sanchez took a veteran team to the AFC championship behind a strong running game and solid defense .

9. Matthew Stafford  -  It took a few yrs before Stafford started showing his potential, and throwing the ball up to megatron was a great help .

10. Alex Smith   - Really the player was traded because some thought he was a bust

11. Ryan Tannehill  - Incomplete

12. Drew Brees - See Smith

13. Eli Manning -  Hackenberg reminds me of Eli  . Dis you really watch the 1st few yrs '

14. Derek Carr  .  He has developed nicely, but a team was built around him along him to develop with them

15. Carson Wentz -   Really .

16. Ben Roethlisberger  - Remind me again what this kid is and where he came from   

17. Russell Wilson  -  Thank you Marshawn Lynch . 

18. Jameis Winston  - Tough 1st yr,  and improving 2nd year .

19. Teddy Bridgewater - are you kidding me

 

I'll wait for you to compile that list of current starting QBs who were groomed in the NFL. Let's see if you can get to 5.

Like I said, it takes time and continuity within the coaching staff . The OC of Winston and Marriota both got promoted to the HCing position providing stability .  

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8 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Okay, then don't bother trying with false facts to prove you case. Elway can do whatever he wants, Mac can't got it.

Mac drafted a developmental QB in hopes of him becoming the guy; considering we were as bad as we have been for a while and will still not be drafting #1 or #2 this is only way we are going to get a QB (by taking a chance). If you think we should wait until the team is pretty stacked (not too many holes), I would say he won't have the job that long. He wasn't drafted to compete and failed, he was drafted to sit. He was #4 as they weren't ready to start Petty but didn't want to let him go. Personally, I think we should have released Geno and had Petty at #2 (until he got hurt). You don't like it fine. The only problem is that we haven't won a SB in 40+ years, so I guess the GM can't take a chance. That is a good way to never get back into the SB. 

You don't draft developmental QBs in the 2nd round when you haven't addressed the offensive line in years, you're relying on Matt Forte at running back, your corners are a has been and a bunch of never going to be players, and you have zero outside pass rush. Especially when you just took a developmental QB in the 4th round a year before. It's a poor allocation of resources. 

Elways roster afforded him the opportunity to draft Lynch where he did because he's got really good players in many key positions.

The Jets taking Hack where they did would be like the Browns taking a running back number one overall despite a lack talent everywhere else. 

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25 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Well,the following disagree with you:

1. Matt Ryan

2. Tom Brady

3. Andrew Luck

4. Marcus Mariota

5. Joe Flacco

6. Cam Newton

7. Andy Dalton

8. Dak Prescott

9. Matthew Stafford

10. Alex Smith

11. Ryan Tannehill

12. Drew Brees

13. Eli Manning

14. Derek Carr

15. Carson Wentz

16. Ben Roethlisberger

17. Russell Wilson

18. Jameis Winston

19. Teddy Bridgewater

 

I'll wait for you to compile that list of current starting QBs who were groomed in the NFL. Let's see if you can get to 5.

So you were able to come up with NOT EVEN 20 QBs over a 17 YEAR SPAN that were simply AMAZING QBs from their initial rookie year? Got it.:rolleyes:

It's not as simple as some of you seem to state, but whatever. 

Brady SAT all of 2000.

Smith was TRASH until his 6th year when Harbugh arrived. 

Brees was NOT RESIGNED by his original team after 5 YEARS and finally lit it up when he arrived in NO. 

The rest you listed all had their respective struggles as rookie QBs with possibly the exception of Russell Wilson who "fell" to the 3rd round. IT MUST BE a PERFECT SCIENCE selecting these QBs SuperBowl Caliber QBs listed. :rolleyes:

 

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1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

roflles. Keep changing that target. Maybe one day you'll hit it.

What target,  what the frill are you talking about ?

I said  the kid needs time .  Some people mature quicker than other, and it's usually what they are exposed too that determines it .

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54 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Can I bump this thread when Hackenberg gets cut in 9 months after looking like sh_t again in preseason?

Or when you're possibly eating crow? Sure, why not. The POINT IS:

NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN AND IT IS ALL SPECULATION UNTIL HE PLAYS. 

I'll be the 1st to congratulate you if you're correct on HOW BAD Hack will be. Ice cream on me.

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

Do you know who's going to be his HC, OC and GM in 9 months also ?

Haven't you realized by now via his posts? He KNOWS EVERYTHING ALREADY and thus why his frustration that his masterplan isn't being considered.

You shut him up when his sill @$$ stated to simply draft a Pro-style offense QB in the next draft. Oh ok, that simple huh? Friggin' MENSA:rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

It's a special kind of terrible when the media basically decides it's safe to be overtly negative and sarcastic. 

I want to know, why do you think Mac doesn't need to answer to this? It seems like people just keep making up excuses for why we spent a top 50 pick in the draft, on a guy who is so fcking damaged, he can't even get a sniff in a game vs EJ Manuel? 

Why doesn't he have to answer to that? 

 

If he doesn't play him, he doesn't have to admit how terrible of a pick it was 👍.. Truth is he we could have probably picked him in the 4th round.. No one was picking him in the 2nd or 3rd..

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2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If he doesn't play him, he doesn't have to admit how terrible of a pick it was 👍.. Truth is he we could have probably picked him in the 4th round.. No one was picking him in the 2nd or 3rd..

PURE SPECULATION WITH NO POSSIBLE PROOF OR FACT TO BASE SUCH AN ASSumption. :)

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21 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You don't draft developmental QBs in the 2nd round when you haven't addressed the offensive line in years, you're relying on Matt Forte at running back, your corners are a has been and a bunch of never going to be players, and you have zero outside pass rush. Especially when you just took a developmental QB in the 4th round a year before. It's a poor allocation of resources. 

Elways roster afforded him the opportunity to draft Lynch where he did because he's got really good players in many key positions.

The Jets taking Hack where they did would be like the Browns taking a running back number one overall despite a lack talent everywhere else. 

Two points on this post:

Maybe Elway's roster didn't afford him the opportunity to draft Lynch because they didn't make the playoffs.  Maybe he should have taken a player that could compete for a starting position.

In your opinion are there any qb's in this upcoming draft that you would consider ready to compete?  If not then you would agree that we shouldn't take any QB early.

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23 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You don't draft developmental QBs in the 2nd round when you haven't addressed the offensive line in years, you're relying on Matt Forte at running back, your corners are a has been and a bunch of never going to be players, and you have zero outside pass rush. Especially when you just took a developmental QB in the 4th round a year before. It's a poor allocation of resources. 

Elways roster afforded him the opportunity to draft Lynch where he did because he's got really good players in many key positions.

The Jets taking Hack where they did would be like the Browns taking a running back number one overall despite a lack talent everywhere else. 

Sorry, I disagree completely. Many picks don't work out. Not picking Hack just because he picked Petty the year before is comparable to not picking Winston because we picked a QB the year before. Petty could not pan out, Hack could not pan out, whoever the would have picked in the second had the not picked Hack may not have panned out.

One could argue having a better team should have forced Elway to draft a guy that could contribute and he should have 'sold the farm' to get a QB that could win now with the first round pick. This team actually has a window and Elway 'squandered' a year of it. The jets don't have a win now window.

But, whatever. We are clearly not going to agree on this.

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1 minute ago, Joejet said:

Two points on this post:

Maybe Elway's roster didn't afford him the opportunity to draft Lynch because they didn't make the playoffs.  Maybe he should have taken a player that could compete for a starting position.

In your opinion are there any qb's in this upcoming draft that you would consider ready to compete?  If not then you would agree that we shouldn't take any QB early.

Or Elway misjudged his QBs already on the roster and had too much faith in Simean. 

I haven't delved too deeply into this years QB class but early returns aren't great. I'm a fan of Kizer but he needs time. Given the roster is about to implode and they have a plethora of needs and they drafted project QBs the last two years, I doubt Macc drafts another one. But I wouldn't put it passed him. 

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2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Sorry, I disagree completely. Many picks don't work out. Not picking Hack just because he picked Petty the year before is comparable to not picking Winston because we picked a QB the year before. Petty could not pan out, Hack could not pan out, whoever the would have picked in the second had the not picked Hack may not have panned out.

One could argue having a better team should have forced Elway to draft a guy that could contribute and he should have 'sold the farm' to get a QB that could win now with the first round pick. This team actually has a window and Elway 'squandered' a year of it. The jets don't have a win now window.

But, whatever. We are clearly not going to agree on this.

Clearly we aren't going to agree because we disagree on basic fundamentals of team building. Drafting a tackle in the 2nd round who doesn't pan out isn't nearly as devastating to a team who drafts a QB high that doesn't pan out. If Hack is a day one starter you can draft him with Petty on the roster. You shouldn't have two developmental QBs on the same roster fighting for reps. It's not productive in the current NFL climate. 

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Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Clearly we aren't going to agree because we disagree on basic fundamentals of team building. Drafting a tackle in the 2nd round who doesn't pan out isn't nearly as devastating to a team who drafts a QB high that doesn't pan out. If Hack is a day one starter you can draft him with Petty on the roster. You shouldn't have two developmental QBs on the same roster fighting for reps. It's not productive in the current NFL climate. 

We agree on something; that we don't agree. Any player that doesn't pan out is the same lost opportunity cost regardless of the position. So, drafting Geno was devastating? And, it isn't like Hack hasn't panned out, he hasn't played yet.

Put it this way. What is the hardest position to find? What is the hardest position to develop? What is the most important position on the team? What is the hardest position to evaluate making the transition to the NFL? Because of this you have to take more chances. It isn't devastating when a 2nd round pick doesn't work out. What would be devastating is if we trading 3 firsts to get a guy like RGIII and lose years of picks. What would be devastating would be paying 18 million to get a backup QB that got benched for a late round QB (and you are stuck with him for another year or 2). What would be devastating would be to not keep trying to find your franchise QB.

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55 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'll wait for you to compile that list of current starting QBs who were groomed in the NFL. Let's see if you can get to 5.

Quote

 

Well,the following disagree with you:

1. Matt Ryan - Special player who played in a pro style offense at BC

2. Tom Brady - Sat 2 years behind Drew Bledsoe

3. Andrew Luck -  Played in pro style offense at Stanford  and still needed his 1st full year to get acclimated to the NFL

4. Marcus Mariota  -  Beginning to show his potential after struggling through a rough rookie year

5. Joe Flacco -

6. Cam Newton - Incomplete but on the upswing

7. Andy Dalton -

8. Dak Prescott =  All I will say about Prescott is that Mark Sanchez took a veteran team to the AFC championship behind a strong running game and solid defense .

9. Matthew Stafford  -  It took a few yrs before Stafford started showing his potential, and throwing the ball up to megatron was a great help .

10. Alex Smith   - Really the player was traded because some thought he was a bust

11. Ryan Tannehill  - Incomplete

12. Drew Brees - See Smith

13. Eli Manning -  Hackenberg reminds me of Eli  . Dis you really watch the 1st few yrs '

14. Derek Carr  .  He has developed nicely, but a team was built around him along him to develop with them

15. Carson Wentz -   Really .

16. Ben Roethlisberger  - Remind me again what this kid is and where he came from   

17. Russell Wilson  -  Thank you Marshawn Lynch . 

18. Jameis Winston  - Tough 1st yr,  and improving 2nd year .

19. Teddy Bridgewater - are you kidding me

 

Thank you @Tinstar for taking the time to point out the flaws in that list. 

33 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

So you were able to come up with NOT EVEN 20 QBs over a 17 YEAR SPAN that were simply AMAZING QBs from their initial rookie year? Got it.:rolleyes:

It's not as simple as some of you seem to state, but whatever. 

Brady SAT all of 2000.

Smith was TRASH until his 6th year when Harbugh arrived. 

Brees was NOT RESIGNED by his original team after 5 YEARS and finally lit it up when he arrived in NO. 

The rest you listed all had their respective struggles as rookie QBs with possibly the exception of Russell Wilson who "fell" to the 3rd round. IT MUST BE a PERFECT SCIENCE selecting these QBs SuperBowl Caliber QBs listed. :rolleyes:

 

 

32 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I said  the kid needs time .  Some people mature quicker than other, and it's usually what they are exposed too that determines it .

 

 

So your question and list of IMMEDIATE QB STARS from their rookie season has been looked over, answered, and rebutted. Coming up w/19 QBs over a 17 year span and THE JURY IS STILL OUT on a fair number of the QBs you listed to make your post SUBJECTIVE AT BEST.

 

35 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

roflles. Keep changing that target. Maybe one day you'll hit it.

This ^ is the best reply you have to the counter question posed to you and Dr. Malpractice that it's "so simple" to plug in a QB and hit the ground running? 

Haha, yeah, ok.:rolleyes:

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15 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

We agree on something; that we don't agree. Any player that doesn't pan out is the same lost opportunity cost regardless of the position. So, drafting Geno was devastating? And, it isn't like Hack hasn't panned out, he hasn't played yet.

Put it this way. What is the hardest position to find? What is the hardest position to develop? What is the most important position on the team? What is the hardest position to evaluate making the transition to the NFL? Because of this you have to take more chances. It isn't devastating when a 2nd round pick doesn't work out. What would be devastating is if we trading 3 firsts to get a guy like RGIII and lose years of picks. What would be devastating would be paying 18 million to get a backup QB that got benched for a late round QB (and you are stuck with him for another year or 2). What would be devastating would be to not keep trying to find your franchise QB.

Drafting Geno led to trading for Fitz and drafting Petty and drafting Hack. So yes. Drafting Geno set this team back at least five years. 

I have no problem with the Jets trying to find their franchise QB. Everyone wants that and no one is arguing against it. I'm simply saying that Hack ain't the guy. And believing he is just sets this team back further. The Jets would have been better off drafting a different position than QB in the 2nd round last year. 

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7 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

If a QB is ready to play 'right away', he ain't likely getting picked in the 2nd round.  There are very few QBs out of college that are NFL 'plug and play'...drafting a QB is a crapshoot unless the guy is Andrew Luck type.  Each is different with things they need to change/improve on and with different physical attributes.  Where they get drafted is a value decision for a GM...you might not think Hack was worth a 2nd, Macc did...so be it.  But that 'value decision' has absolutely no bearing on what Hackenberg either becomes or not over time.

And, since Macc basically said at the time Hack was picked they had no intention of playing him this year, how is the fact he hasn't moved up the depth chart even an issue?  The kid has had minimal snaps and hasn't even dressed yet...but if that was the PLAN, all along, it has no bearing on the kids abilities at all and speaks nothing, certainly not 'volumes'.

My only point is, we know nothing more now about Hack than we did at draft day...but supposedly that was the Jets plan all along..if you disagree with that plan so be it and I certainly have my doubts; but don't use it to beat the kid over the head at this point and call him a failure/bust just yet because 'moving up the ladder' this year wasn't one of his 'goals'.  There is a difference.

If that's the plan all along to draft a bad college QB to not see a snap or get better then it could have been accomplished in the 6th or 7th round. You act as if this some huge revelation. The Jets have continuously missed on QBs. This is just another one. 

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3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If that's the plan all along to draft a bad college QB to not see a snap or get better then it could have been accomplished in the 6th or 7th round. You act as if this some huge revelation. The Jets have continuously missed on QBs. This is just another one. 

Well, you obviously think Hack would've been available in the 6th or 7th...Macc did not.  You also think giving him a spot on the roster while not expecting him to play or 'move up the ladder' was a mistake...Macc and apparently Bowles did not.  That's fine; criticize them about it.

My point is is says nothing about what Hack may or may not be moving forward is all...and you have no idea if we 'missed on another one'...yet.

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13 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

If a QB is ready to play 'right away', he ain't likely getting picked in the 2nd round.  There are very few QBs out of college that are NFL 'plug and play'...drafting a QB is a crapshoot unless the guy is Andrew Luck type.  Each is different with things they need to change/improve on and with different physical attributes.  Where they get drafted is a value decision for a GM...you might not think Hack was worth a 2nd, Macc did...so be it.  But that 'value decision' has absolutely no bearing on what Hackenberg either becomes or not over time.

And, since Macc basically said at the time Hack was picked they had no intention of playing him this year, how is the fact he hasn't moved up the depth chart even an issue?  The kid has had minimal snaps and hasn't even dressed yet...but if that was the PLAN, all along, it has no bearing on the kids abilities at all and speaks nothing, certainly not 'volumes'.

My only point is, we know nothing more now about Hack than we did at draft day...but supposedly that was the Jets plan all along..if you disagree with that plan so be it and I certainly have my doubts; but don't use it to beat the kid over the head at this point and call him a failure/bust just yet because 'moving up the ladder' this year wasn't one of his 'goals'.  There is a difference.

 

post-43072-Grumpy-Cat-clapping-gif-Panda

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I haven't read all 8+ quality pages of this fresh, new topic here at JN. 

Has anyone mentioned we're talking about a 21 yr old QB that should be finishing his Sr year in college.

The recent poster boy for NFL ready QB Andrew Luck was at Stanford for 4 yrs (red shirting his freshman year), played for Harbaugh in a NFL ready system, and he still struggled his rookie yr. Christ Rex's vaunted defense ate Luck alive in '12. 

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7 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If that's the plan all along to draft a bad college QB to not see a snap or get better then it could have been accomplished in the 6th or 7th round. You act as if this some huge revelation. The Jets have continuously missed on QBs. This is just another one. 

Its easy to say he's not the one, odds are certainly in your favor.  But without proof there is still hope. 

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