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Paradis

"He's not an NFL Quarterback. It's just that simple"

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8 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

If Hackenberg was on any other team he would have been cut already

And you would be Just as miserable because the Jets would probably pick him up on Wavers . We have picked up just about every one else, LOL. 

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4 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

And you would be Just as miserable because the Jets would probably pick him up on Wavers . We have picked up just about every one else, LOL. 

There are QB's currently not even in the NFL who are significantly better than Crapenberg

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10 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Link?

There's no link because there's no precedent for a QB as bad as Hackenberg getting drafted in the 2nd round.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

There's no link because there's no precedent for a QB as bad as Hackenberg getting drafted in the 2nd round.

oh lawd

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Look, there is no rush on Hackenberg because, like all those who defend him, he's not ready. He's young, flawed, needs a complete overhaul on mechanics, etc.. etc.. etc..

So, there you have it. Nothing to be upset about, nothing to even be concerned about. Precisely why we need to draft a QB in the first round this year. It is an absolute must. Bringing in a vet will be disasterous. When they vet struggles the pressure to start Hack will be enormous, and clearly Hack won't be ready. Even his supporters agree. If you draft a QB in the first round then you start him day one. His struggles will be more acceptable, and hopefully that QB develops into the franchise QB we need. Then, after 15 years maybe Hack will have had enough time redshirting on the bench to step in and be worthwhile.


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19 minutes ago, C Mart said:

oh lawd

Ok, so I was way off on this. There have actually been two QBs who completed less than 55% of their passes in their last collegiate season and got picked in the 2nd: Quincy Carter and Marques Toiasosopo. And Kyle Boller went in the 1st!

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21 hours ago, Paradis said:

It's a special kind of terrible when the media basically decides it's safe to be overtly negative and sarcastic. 

I want to know, why do you think Mac doesn't need to answer to this? It seems like people just keep making up excuses for why we spent a top 50 pick in the draft, on a guy who is so fcking damaged, he can't even get a sniff in a game vs EJ Manuel? 

Why doesn't he have to answer to that? 

 

This is the dumbest thing I have read on here in a while.

"...what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

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14 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Look, there is no rush on Hackenberg because, like all those who defend him, he's not ready. He's young, flawed, needs a complete overhaul on mechanics, etc.. etc.. etc..

So, there you have it. Nothing to be upset about, nothing to even be concerned about. Precisely why we need to draft a QB in the first round this year. It is an absolute must. Bringing in a vet will be disasterous. When they vet struggles the pressure to start Hack will be enormous, and clearly Hack won't be ready. Even his supporters agree. If you draft a QB in the first round then you start him day one. His struggles will be more acceptable, and hopefully that QB develops into the franchise QB we need. Then, after 15 years maybe Hack will have had enough time redshirting on the bench to step in and be worthwhile.


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What you may not understand is the reason(s) behind all this . In the 1st place the jets didn't draft the QB certain folks had rated higher when said QB was there to be taken or the Coaching staff is stubbornly not doing what I want and exposing a player I know sucks so I can say I told you so when said player doesn't perform up to his draft status  . 

Case in point, one Devin Smith a 2nd yr wide receiver who didn't light it up in his 1st season, got injured and is now behind other players at his position who were drafted later than him or not even drafted at all .  The same exact problem smith had with his starting QB, Anderson had with his . Smith got hurt and didn't have an opportunity to develop chemistry . Anderson got an opportunity to play with a different QB who he developed chemistry with on the scout team and is showing promise . It takes time and reps, but with some Jet fans, all that matters is the instant gratification ..

If the player was taken instead of someone else that was more favored, God help that player . 

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17 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Ofcourse it is in a 3-4 defense.

 

Which is why it was dumb resigning Mo at $90 million when we could have kept Snacks at half the money.

We could have kept Snacks at a lot less than half if he was extended a year earlier. Had one year left as a RFA and nobody showed interest in surrendering the 2nd round pick for him, suggesting he probably won't break the bank a year later. A good/smart GM would have used these 2 things - the year of injury risk at low dollars, and the lack of interest - to suggest he should cash in now while he could. 

That was the time to extend Snacks. Not a year later, after his injury risk was gone and when any team could then sign him without the worry about surrendering a high draft pick to the Jets. But hey, look at all the cap room we saved by not locking up Snacks, so we could then go 10-6 against a schedule that screams at least 13 wins.

Such a waste.

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21 hours ago, Paradis said:

It's a special kind of terrible when the media basically decides it's safe to be overtly negative and sarcastic. 

I want to know, why do you think Mac doesn't need to answer to this? It seems like people just keep making up excuses for why we spent a top 50 pick in the draft, on a guy who is so fcking damaged, he can't even get a sniff in a game vs EJ Manuel? 

Why doesn't he have to answer to that? 

 

Its not that he doesn't have to answer to it....EVERY GM has to answer for everything they do.

However, you don't call for a GM's head, which is what a bunch of people are doing here, because of one draft pick.  I can understand the Hackenberg pick, I really can.....but not at where he was drafted. 

EDIT: I wanted Dak Prescott in the third round (with my second pick being Noah Spence. Unfortunately he would not of been there, such as life).  Who knows what Prescott would have been like though!  He sure as sh*t would not have put up the numbers here as he did in Dallas. 

I want to see what he does this year in the draft as well.  We had to basically overhaul the entire roster, and still try and be competitive, because winning 2-4 games for two straight seasons (which is what the reality would have been without last years miracle/fiasco) would not have bode well for signing quality FA's. 

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What you may not understand is the reason(s) behind all this . In the 1st place the jets didn't draft the QB certain folks had rated higher when said QB was there to be taken or the Coaching staff is stubbornly not doing what I want and exposing a player I know sucks so I can say I told you so when said player doesn't perform up to his draft status  . 
Case in point, one Devin Smith a 2nd yr wide receiver who didn't light it up in his 1st season, got injured and is now behind other players at his position who were drafted later than him or not even drafted at all .  The same exact problem smith had with his starting QB, Anderson had with his . Smith got hurt and didn't have an opportunity to develop chemistry . Anderson got an opportunity to play with a different QB who he developed chemistry with on the scout team and is showing promise . It takes time and reps, but with some Jet fans, all that matters is the instant gratification ..
If the player was taken instead of someone else that was more favored, God help that player . 


I'm not concerned with who he was taken instead of, or who we passed over in the process. I'm not concerned with the fact he isn't playing. He's not ready, that's apparent. I'm also quite aware the odds are he won't be ready next year as well. He's done nothing but hold a clip board this year. Furthermore we currently have no other option on the roster. Petty is not a starter in this league.

So.....we could dig some off the heap vet, and at the first sign of his struggles you will hear the mountainous screams demanding we play Hack, ready or not (more than likely not I think we could agree). Or....we can draft a top prospect and let that kid start now. If he struggles it would be acceptable. If he falls on his face after 2 years, you'd have to hope by then Hack has sat long enough to have the light bulb go off, which is what you're all asking for anyway right? If the top ranked QB drafted this year pans out then who the hell cares about Hack anyway at that point.


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20 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Then the Rams should answer for drafting Goff. The Packers should answer for drafting Aaron Rodgers and not playing him.

Jeff Fisher has answered for that; he got fired a couple of weeks ago...and the Packers had the luxury of drafting Rodgers and letting him sit since their starter was Brett Favre in his prime.

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21 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Both picks speak volumes about Macc neither helped the Jets at all this season or last season. 

so let's all blame the gm because he drafted a guy who gets a freak injury in training camp and then can't seem to run slow enough for the qb to get him the ball.  devon smith was picked with the idea that geno would be qb his rookie year.  it didn't happen and fitz couldn't stretch the field enough for smith to make a difference.

now i am not a big fan of smith.  imo he seems to want to spend too much time in the whirlpool.  he was cleared to play at week 6 and hasn't gotten in very much. he may be a borderline bust but not because of mac.

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36 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Ok, so I was way off on this. There have actually been two QBs who completed less than 55% of their passes in their last collegiate season and got picked in the 2nd: Quincy Carter and Marques Toiasosopo. And Kyle Boller went in the 1st!

I think your forgetting a Hall of Fame QB too

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2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

 


I'm not concerned with who he was taken instead of, or who we passed over in the process. I'm not concerned with the fact he isn't playing. He's not ready, that's apparent. I'm also quite aware the odds are he won't be ready next year as well. He's done nothing but hold a clip board this year. Furthermore we currently have no other option on the roster. Petty is not a starter in this league.

So.....we could dig some off the heap vet, and at the first sign of his struggles you will hear the mountainous screams demanding we play Hack, ready or not (more than likely not I think we could agree). Or....we can draft a top prospect and let that kid start now. If he struggles it would be acceptable. If he falls on his face after 2 years, you'd have to hope by then Hack has sat long enough to have the light bulb go off, which is what you're all asking for anyway right? If the top ranked QB drafted this year pans out then who the hell cares about Hack anyway at that point.


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The problem is college Football no longer prepares anyone for the NFL > These kids coming out this yr have no clue what's in store for them .  I have to admit, I am surprise at what Dax Prescott has done, but to tell the truth, I am not ready to say he's a franchise QB who can put a team on his shoulders .  The kid has taken advantage of the situation he's been put in, and for that I commend him .  It took until after Lynch retired for me to come around on Wilson, and I still see some of the things that made me hesitant .  I see the same things with Prescott . Going forward, we will see, but I must admit, he has surprised me .

 

Russell Wilson and Dax Prescott has done what Mark Sanchez couldn't . Given a strong defense and a strong running game, they maximize what they have been asked to do around the other strengths .  

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3 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

The problem is college Football no longer prepares anyone for the NFL > These kids coming out this yr have no clue what's in store for them .  I have to admit, I am surprise at what Dax Prescott has done, but to tell the truth, I am not ready to say he's a franchise QB who can put a team on his shoulders .  The kid has taken advantage of the situation he's been put in, and for that I commend him .  It took until after Lynch retired for me to come around on Wilson, and I still see some of the things that made me hesitant .  I see the same things with Prescott . Going forward, we will see, but I must admit, he has surprised me .

 

Russell Wilson and Dax Prescott has done what Mark Sanchez couldn't . Given a strong defense and a strong running game, they maximize what they have been asked to do around the other strengths .  

i can't say i know much about either of these qb's but they seem to understand the game they are playing and have learned the system they are playing in.  i don't think hack is such a bad pick.  i'm relying on mac to be competent in his evaluation and if he is then maybe the jets have their qb.  the big question is whether or not hack will be ready to start next season.  if so then all of this bs about the pick is moot.

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Joe Montana went 42, 52, and 54% at Notre Dame then became, arguably, the most accurate quarterback ever.

i think montana went in the third round.  and then look at the 83 group with marino and obrien and eason.  blackledge, who was the second guy taken was useless. only elway, kelly and marino went on to have great careers.  obrien had some very good seasons for the jets. eason was borderline bust.

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1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

If Hackenberg was on any other team he would have been cut already

dude, just stop already.

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2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i can't say i know much about either of these qb's but they seem to understand the game they are playing and have learned the system they are playing in.  i don't think hack is such a bad pick.  i'm relying on mac to be competent in his evaluation and if he is then maybe the jets have their qb.  the big question is whether or not hack will be ready to start next season.  if so then all of this bs about the pick is moot.

See, I could care less if Hack is ready to start next yr . All I want to see is improvement from this yr  ?  I'm interested in developing a QB for the long haul, not finding out if the 1 I drafted last yr  can beat the Browns .  The Kid is 21, and we have a piss poor OL . I can wait for him to develop .

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

See, I could care less if Hack is ready to start next yr . All I want to see is improvement from this yr  ?  I'm interested in developing a QB for the long haul, not finding out if the 1 I drafted last yr  can beat the Browns .  The Kid is 21, and we have a piss poor OL . I can wait for him to develop .

.   

there is some light at the end of the tunnel too.  stafford becomes a fa in a couple of seasons and matt ryan the season after that.

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2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Who here wants Hackenberg to succeed and be the Jets QB for the next 10 years?

 

 

I'm sure everyone here would love that. Odds are slim though 

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1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

There's no link because there's no precedent for a QB as bad as Hackenberg getting drafted in the 2nd round.

In Hack's defense Goff and Lynch are almost as crappy as he is and they were first round picks

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58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We could have kept Snacks at a lot less than half if he was extended a year earlier. Had one year left as a RFA and nobody showed interest in surrendering the 2nd round pick for him, suggesting he probably won't break the bank a year later. A good/smart GM would have used these 2 things - the year of injury risk at low dollars, and the lack of interest - to suggest he should cash in now while he could. 

That was the time to extend Snacks. Not a year later, after his injury risk was gone and when any team could then sign him without the worry about surrendering a high draft pick to the Jets. But hey, look at all the cap room we saved by not locking up Snacks, so we could then go 10-6 against a schedule that screams at least 13 wins.

Such a waste.

Sperm, I got a bad feeling Woody is the real GM and has been since the Tebow debacle

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30 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Sperm, I got a bad feeling Woody is the real GM and has been since the Tebow debacle

I'm sympathetic to you or anyone disliking Woody Johnson, but there's no basis for this belief. There may be a couple of instances where one could imagine him putting his thumb on the scales (Tebow, maybe Sanchez, and maybe the Revis re-signing) but there's no evidence - or even credible leaks - that his GMs have been stooges who are simply doing his bidding. No way that stuff doesn't come out. Not even as the team had 3 GMs - none with a discernible, common philosophy from one to the next - in a recent 4 year span.

These are just the boobs he's hired. 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm sympathetic to you or anyone disliking Woody Johnson, but there's no basis for this belief. There may be a couple of instances where one could imagine him putting his thumb on the scales (Tebow, maybe Sanchez, and maybe the Revis re-signing) but there's no evidence - or even credible leaks - that his GMs have been stooges who are simply doing his bidding. No way that stuff doesn't come out. Not even as the team had 3 GMs - none with a discernible, common philosophy from one to the next - in a recent 4 year span.

These are just the boobs he's hired. 

Nicely worded w/ the thumb on the scales line!

What about Woody hiring the coach separate from the GM?  To me that's meddling pretty badly.  Ideally, should a GM be hired and then left to do the job?

EDIT:

And when Rex was retained after week 17 3 years ago, it was Woody who made that announcement, not Idzik.  It feels to me like Woody is running the show more than he probably should.

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Nicely worded w/ the thumb on the scales line!

What about Woody hiring the coach separate from the GM?  To me that's meddling pretty badly.  Ideally, should a GM be hired and then left to do the job?

 

Yes, in any competent organization, the GM hires the coach.

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59 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Who here wants Hackenberg to succeed and be the Jets QB for the next 10 years?

 

 

You should get 100% attendance for this one .

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43 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Nicely worded w/ the thumb on the scales line!

What about Woody hiring the coach separate from the GM?  To me that's meddling pretty badly.  Ideally, should a GM be hired and then left to do the job?

EDIT:

And when Rex was retained after week 17 3 years ago, it was Woody who made that announcement, not Idzik.  It feels to me like Woody is running the show more than he probably should.

Those were both awful decisions, but they were both high-level decisions, not detailed ones like which individual players to acquire. His lack of hiring a head of football operations, and having both HC and GM report to him instead of one to the other, is beyond words.

I can't believe a fool like Woody Johnson would be so effective & successful at keeping his meddling & string-pulling so secretive for so many years. Again, there's no evidence of his influence or decree to do any number of moves he's suspected of making.

At best there's only circumstantial evidence regarding the three I mentioned above:

  1. Drafting Sanchez in 2009 (after Favre, IIRC he said something to the effect of never having another no-name QB again)
  2. Trading for Tebow in 2012 (see above, plus other outside-football things with which they seem commonly aligned)
  3. Re-signing Revis in 2015 (his tampering - and it absolutely was tampering - 'I wish we'd re-signed Revis' comments when announcing the Idzik & Rex firings)

But even with these 3 instances over the past decade and a half, there's no evidence or leaks that in the end he forced (or effectively forced by strongly "suggesting") that any GM make any of these moves.

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38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Those were both awful decisions, but they were both high-level decisions, not detailed ones like which individual players to acquire. His lack of hiring a head of football operations, and having both HC and GM report to him instead of one to the other, is beyond words.

I can't believe a fool like Woody Johnson would be so effective & successful at keeping his meddling & string-pulling so secretive for so many years. Again, there's no evidence of his influence or decree to do any number of moves he's suspected of making.

At best there's only circumstantial evidence regarding the three I mentioned above:

  1. Drafting Sanchez in 2009 (after Favre, IIRC he said something to the effect of never having another no-name QB again)
  2. Trading for Tebow in 2012 (see above, plus other outside-football things with which they seem commonly aligned)
  3. Re-signing Revis in 2015 (his tampering - and it absolutely was tampering - 'I wish we'd re-signed Revis' comments when announcing the Idzik & Rex firings)

But even with these 3 instances over the past decade and a half, there's no evidence or leaks that in the end he forced (or effectively forced by strongly "suggesting") that any GM make any of these moves.

I would add Favre into that mix as well. I would also say that I don't think he is meddling ala Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, but I do think the 4 examples all have been pretty significant. With the exception of Tebow, all those meddles led to very significant directional changes for the Jets, and had long term consequences.

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You simply do not get 3 4 5 years to develop into a player in the nfl at any position.  As far as improvement goes you need to see a LOT of improvement come next years camp or the bust suspicion will be in full force.  In the mean time while a team waits around for a long shot prospect to 'get gud' others come in and pass them by.  See Devin Smith, looked poor, got hurt, looks bad again this year,  He's one mediocre camp from being cut next year because others have passed him by,  It will be the same at QB.  Next year or the year after if some later rounder or udfa or even a higher pick comes in and looks better than hack right away then Hack gets bumped down the list. 

And since we are terrified of playing the guy early in his career he will be labelled as 'never being given a chance' by the same people that want him not to play now.

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You simply do not get 3 4 5 years to develop into a player in the nfl at any position.  As far as improvement goes you need to see a LOT of improvement come next years camp or the bust suspicion will be in full force.  In the mean time while a team waits around for a long shot prospect to 'get gud' others come in and pass them by.  See Devin Smith, looked poor, got hurt, looks bad again this year,  He's one mediocre camp from being cut next year because others have passed him by,  It will be the same at QB.  Next year or the year after if some later rounder or udfa or even a higher pick comes in and looks better than hack right away then Hack gets bumped down the list. 

And since we are terrified of playing the guy early in his career he will be labelled as 'never being given a chance' by the same people that want him not to play now.

If Hack is not "ready" next year to at least compete for a job, then I think we have a legitimate reason to be worried. I have zero problem with what they did with him this year other than the fact that I think its asinine to waste the entire season if he has mechanics problems rather than fixing them now. But it does not bother me in the least that he is not playing right now.

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Sucks that we're having this debate. If Fitz and the defense had played better we wouldn't even be discussing this. Think everyone would be content with Hack sitting the entire year but because the team is so bad Hack is under the microscope. 

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