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Season grades for all 31 1st round picks


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4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

You think Lynch would have seen the field this season?  My gawd this place is a loony bin now..

He would have had a better shot of being a long-term "hit" than Hackenberg.  No QB with a completion % as low as Hackenberg had in college has ever had any success in the pros whatsoever. 

How can you possibly justify those 2 picks in your mind?  Seriously, seems to me the "loony bin" isn't the people making cogent arguments in this thread.  It's the people fighting against it to convince everyone the Lee and Hackenberg picks were actually, good.  They were sh*tty picks at the time and nothing that's happened since has suggested otherwise.  Our GM demonstrated no ability to allocate his draft choices wisely based on criteria like value, probabilities and good football sense. 

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Not even close. I do agree that Lee needs to work on his coverage skills. But I do like his effort and his ability to tackle despite his small size. I also wonder if he is better off as an OLB instead

Lowst graded lb in the league.  Hahahahaha. Classic MacCagnan.

2nd worst grade among first round picks. Tell me again what a genius move it was taking Lee. This draft is looking Idzik level bad. I'm not sure I have any faith left in Macc.  In a draft loaded

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He would have had a better shot of being a long-term "hit" than Hackenberg.  No QB with a completion % as low as Hackenberg had in college has ever had any success in the pros whatsoever. 

How can you possibly justify those 2 picks in your mind?  Seriously, seems to me the "loony bin" isn't the people making cogent arguments in this thread.  It's the people fighting against it to convince everyone the Lee and Hackenberg picks were actually, good.  They were sh*tty picks at the time and nothing that's happened since has suggested otherwise.

after 1 season? 1 season?!?!  and a QBs success is now solely based on completion %?

Because I don't judge a pick after 1 season.

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3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

after 1 season? 1 season?!?!  and a QBs success is now solely based on completion %?

Yes, after 1 season.  Because in order for those picks to make sense, Lee has to become an elite player, and Hackenberg has to accomplish what no QB prospect has ever done:  Succeed despite lack of accuracy. 

Most here already knew these were bad picks the moment they happened.  Now the players have to prove against all odds that all those people were wrong.  And do so before their rookie deals run out (just 3 years from now in Hack's case and either 3 or 4 for Lee depending on whether we pick up his option).  The clock is ticking on them, and presumably, Macc as well.  The fact that he hitched his wagon to such small margin-for-error picks means he is not smart. 

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6 minutes ago, C Mart said:

You think Lynch would have seen the field this season?  My gawd this place is a loony bin now..

He already has in Denver. If they draft Lynch they probably look to him after Fitz' early season struggles instead of injured Petty and terrible Geno. Who knows what might have happened. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, after 1 season.  Because in order for those picks to make sense, Lee has to become an elite player, and Hackenberg has to accomplish what no QB prospect has ever done:  Succeed despite lack of accuracy. 

Most here already knew these were bad picks the moment they happened.  Now the players have to prove against all odds that all those people were wrong.  And do so before their rookie deals run out.  The clock is ticking on them, and presumably, Macc as well.  The fact that he hitched his wagon to such small margin-for-error picks means he is not smart. 

Fair enough. Well, so we have our replacement(s) for Mcc right here in lil' ol JN. Who knew

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1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

He already has in Denver. If they draft Lynch they probably look to him after Fitz' early season struggles instead of injured Petty and terrible Geno. Who knows what might have happened. 

Like it or not, considering that the team actually thought more of Hack then Lynch, there's absolutely no reason to believe anything would have been done differently if Lynch were here.  That of course could be justification for additional criticism, but a theoretical concept that evidence suggests wouldn't have happened is hardly an endorsement for a different player.  In all likelihood, they're both going to turn out to suck.  We just may never actually see Hack's sucking.

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lee sucks something awful-he is a tight ends dream as he is the worst cover guy around

Hack will never play

our gm sucks folks stop the madness-stop with the BS he is new and has a plan and needs time-

Woody needs to do the right thing and hire a PROVEN gm-pay him whatever he wants

Patience is only able to exist when you have faith in the guy running the show-he sucks -between his drafts and his bad contracts he is clueless-why is it I knew a stupid fan Fitz was going to be a train wreck this year but he brought him back at a big raise lol

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I am not a huge metrics fan but it definitely does provide added value when analyzing players. 

I watched every game this season; dont recall seeing many impact plays from Lee.

And while it is only his rookie season, PFF rates him crap and he had no forced fumbles, no INTs and only 1 sack.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, KINGDIRK said:

I am not a huge metrics fan but it definitely does provide added value when analyzing players. 

I watched every game this season; dont recall seeing many impact plays from Lee.

And while it is only his rookie season, PFF rates him crap and he had no forced fumbles, no INTs and only 1 sack.

 

 

 

there were impact plays AGAINST lee all over the field lol   I bet dwayne allen wishes he played the jets every week he would have about 40 tds in one year

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20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And that was there BIG justification for drafting him by many we now have a guy that can cover rbs and te's!

Just because a guy can run fast doesn't mean he can cover.  it takes time and experience before you can expect those kind of results.  Not to mention he was Olb at Ohio St whose learning to play inside for the first time.   ( was never going to be smooth transition). Shame on anyone who thought he was going to fix the Jets coverage ability his rookie year,

Eventually D Lee will be a very good cover lb for the Jets.  Just have to have patience , and give him time to develop. 

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1 minute ago, Raideraholic said:

Just because a guy can run fast doesn't mean he can cover.  it takes time and experience before you can expect those kind of results.  Not to mention he was Olb at Ohio St whose learning to play inside for the first time.   ( was never going to be smooth transition). Shame on anyone who thought he was going to fix the Jets coverage ability his rookie year,

Eventually D Lee will be a very good cover lb for the Jets.  Just have to have patience , and give him time to develop. 

Why will he be? Because he is fast?  His instincts and the angle he takes are pryor like and pyror has never improved in that.  Just why did the jets draft a non pass rushing olb to be a small ilb? 

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I'll also be a voice of dissent for a minute with Lee just for the heck of it...

I actually think he's going to turn it around next year. I think he can be a solid player. Will he ever be worthy of that 1st round pick? Eh who knows, but I do believe he can be a solid contributor.

My biggest reason for feeling that way is that I think a lot of his issues come from playing too fast... With Lee a lot of the time he's moving so quickly that he overruns plays or gets juked into committing somewhere and can't recover because he just puts so much of himself into a play. The team has been calling him "hyper" and I think that's a pretty good way to put it.

I think he has the talent to succeed if he just learns to slow the game down a little. This isn't a guy who doesn't get the playbook or is too slow to keep up with the play or is naive to what the other team is doing... He's just moving around too much and getting caught. I think he can learn and be taught to control that aspect.

 

 

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The funny part about PFF saying that he is bad in coverage is that I have noticed that he was been blanketing TEs/RBs but has been unable to make a play on the ball. I think that is something he can improve on heading into next year. I am not sold on him yet, but I see the talent and development I would expect from a raw LBer. 

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6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Why will he be? Because he is fast?  His instincts and the angle he takes are pryor like and pyror has never improved in that.  Just why did the jets draft a non pass rushing olb to be a small ilb? 

I don't think his instincts are as bad as the angles he takes... He's shown instincts this season, but he just over commits right now... It's fixable in my mind, but who knows.

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1 hour ago, KINGDIRK said:

And while it is only his rookie season, PFF rates him crap and he had no forced fumbles, no INTs and only 1 sack.

Which is 1.5 less sacks than our DL and about the same amount of forced fumbles and INTs that our ENTIRE DEFENSE had.

I know it's easy to pile onto this kid, but, really, the entire defense has sucked and this guy shouldn't be expected to be THE standout in a group that collectively has played way worse than expected.

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The only way to justify taking a small speed lb is if he is going to be able to create turnovers or cover, there is no other reason.   Both of our 1st two picks this past year were bad for different reasons.  The rest of the draft and udfa were pretty good for the most part.  Lee has also had the handicap of our awful awful defensive system as well so that has not helped him.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Why will he be? Because he is fast?  His instincts and the angle he takes are pryor like and pyror has never improved in that.  Just why did the jets draft a non pass rushing olb to be a small ilb? 

Because his instincts will improve with more experience.( playing inside lb for the first time-you think it's easy learning to play inside.  D Lee does have the Atlethic  ability to eventually get the job done.

Raiders rookie sixth rounder Cory James has experience similar growing pains going from a De in college , to playing MLB.      Playing De has helped him to be able to disengage from blockers playing inside.  HE has ability to cover , but again he step slower because his reads are a little slower than lb's who have played that position all their life.   ( playing a lot slower than his speed)    Just takes time where he can react naturally without having to think.

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13 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The funny part about PFF saying that he is bad in coverage is that I have noticed that he was been blanketing TEs/RBs but has been unable to make a play on the ball. I think that is something he can improve on heading into next year. I am not sold on him yet, but I see the talent and development I would expect from a raw LBer. 

It does seem to be technique which is correctable. I think he will be okay, he is always in the right spot he just doesn't make a play it seems. He should be fine though.

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PFF has always graded Darron Lee as a bad player.  Perhaps its their grading scale but he shows up on PFF's 16 Worst Picks of the 2016 Draft, 10 most overrated 2016 NFL draft prospects, Buyer-beware when drafting these 3 LB prospects.  Most of their opinions are based off of purely statistical analysis, so character and leadership qualities don't factor in with their assessment.  They also did not like Deion Jones, Taylor Decker, and Germain Ifedi very much.

This is what stood out to me in their pre-draft analysis, which is why I didn't think he was drafted to be a coverage LB:

"He ranked just 27th in this year’s linebacker class in overall grade, and actually earned a slightly negative grade in pass coverage, ranking 74th. That’s surprising given Lee’s reputation, but is backed up by two more concerning numbers: Lee allowed the 12th-highest yards per coverage snap average in the class, and had seven missed tackles on receivers after the catch, giving him the fourth-worst tackling efficiency on passing plays. "

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21 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Because his instincts will improve with more experience.( playing inside lb for the first time-you think it's easy learning to play inside.  D Lee does have the Atlethic  ability to eventually get the job done.

Raiders rookie sixth rounder Cory James has experience similar growing pains going from a De in college , to playing MLB.      Playing De has helped him to be able to disengage from blockers playing inside.  HE has ability to cover , but again he step slower because his reads are a little slower than lb's who have played that position all their life.   ( playing a lot slower than his speed)    Just takes time where he can react naturally without having to think.

Yeah a 6th rounder vs a top 20 pick is a good comparison all right,

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah a 6th rounder vs a top 20 pick is a good comparison all right,

Only comparison is neither played inside Lb in college, and they are learning a new position in the NFL.  Let's see where both are next year, with a full year under their belt . Jmo I think  next year you start to appreciate that pick.  

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3 hours ago, Mecca said:

We're a 4-3 talent team playing a 3-4. It's that f'in simple. Let me see Pryor and Lee and OLB in a 4-3 with our DLine. 

 

Idiot Bowles 

Except we aren't a 4-3 talent team.

We don't have a pair of ends for a 4-3, and don't have enough faster/quicker LBers for it either. Our current ends would be better-suited playing inside. So inside guys for a 4-3 we've got plenty of -- like 5 or 6 of them. Also Bowles would still be trotting Harris out there at MLB, just as one example. Harris can't cover enough ground as 1 of 4 LBers or with 5 DBs making the field smaller for him. You're going to put someone like him in the middle all by himself? Lee fits a 4-3, I'll grant you. Talent-wise, our ends could likely shift inside to DT if we lined up 4 across. Jenkins would be converted to DE, I suppose. Our LBers are then Lee, the sloth-like Harris, and who exactly that's suited for covering all that ground from sideline to sideline?

We have 3-4 personnel plus Darron Lee (who we used up a top 20 pick to get), plus an extra 3-4 DE we don't need (who we keep retaining instead of accepting/making realistic trade proposals).

Idiot Maccagnan

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3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Convert him to OLB and see if he can rush from the edge

At least try it.  He clearly can't diagnose a play to save his life.  He just watches everything happen in front of him and then reacts. Maybe if he doesn't have to think he can be useful. 

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