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Season grades for all 31 1st round picks


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4 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

I don't think drafting linebackers in round 1 is always bad business; however, drafting 225lb linebackers in round 1 is highly questionable, at best. There are a million guys in rounds 3-7 who can run in the 4.5 - 4.6 range at 225lbs. Darron Lee is basically a pumped up safety without the coverage skills. Why take him in the 1st round when we haven't had an edge rusher since John Abraham? 

The issue with drafting middle linebackers, particularly for teams that run a 3-4, is that they're non-premium positions. OLB, CB, and even pass-rushing one-gap DE's (Wilkerson/Richardson/Leo), are more of a priority to the foundation of a 3-4 defense than a MLB. I dislike guys like Calvin Pryor for the same reason; safeties, for all intents and purposes, is a non-premium position. Using premium picks for non-premium positions, in a general sense, isn't good business.

Now, all of this goes out the window if you think someone is a once in ten years type player (Ray Lewis, Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, Troy Polamolu, etc), but for the most part, committing top draft picks towards players who have obvious flaws (Darron Lee: size; Calvin Pryor: coverage) and who play non-premium positions is pretty silly.

 

Thank you.  I tried having this conversation in another thread and it was met with strong and confusing resistance. 

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35 minutes ago, JiF said:

Thank you.  I tried having this conversation in another thread and it was met with strong and confusing resistance. 

I understand that point. Then why was are those types of players projected into the first round?  Why not only prime positions being projected?

Edited by UnitedWhofans
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26. Paxton Lynch, QB, Broncos (Memphis)

Snaps: 174

PFF overall grade: 40.2

Since midseason, Paxton Lynch received one more opportunity to get on the field, with an injury to Trevor Siemian giving him the start in Week 13 against Jacksonville. He was arguably worse than his previous start, completing only 12 passes for 104 yards (just 4.3 yards per attempt). Lynch may be the QB of the future in Denver, but everything he has shown so far says that future is a long way off.

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33 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No. Wilson got penalized a ton. Lee doesn't.

You have a point.   But I think you missed my comparison. 

Lee and Wilson both get themselves in position to make a play on the ball when in coverage. But neither have any awareness whatsoever and fail to turn their head to locate the ball.  Neither of them ever knock the ball away no matter how close they are.

THIS CANNOT BE COACHED OR CORRECTED.  It is instinctual.   10 year old Pop Warner kid, or a 45 year old playing pickup tries to locate the ball when they hear "pass." 

Darron Lee is a collegiate athlete from Ohio State.  If he doesn't do it by now, he never will.

Bust.

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Just now, RoadFan said:

You have a point.   But I think you missed my comparison. 

Lee and Wilson both get themselves in position to make a play on the ball when in coverage. But neither have any awareness whatsoever and fail to turn their head to locate the ball.  Neither of them ever knock the ball away no matter how close they are.

THIS CANNOT BE COACHED OR CORRECTED.  It is instinctual.   10 year old Pop Warner kid, or a 45 year old playing pickup ball tries to locate the ball when they hear "pass." 

Darron Lee is a collegiate athlete from Ohio State.  If he doesn't do it by now, he never will.

Bust.

Is he better in coverage than David Harris?

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Is he better in coverage than David Harris?

Don't you dare compare Darron Lee to David Harris!

Harris has been a warrior his entire career.  He has been an inside thumper and the defensive playcaller for years.  Lee is an undersized roamer whose entire purpose was for coverage.  And he sucks at it.  In other words, Lee is completely useless.

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38 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I understand that point. Then why was are those types of players projected into the first round?  Why not only prime positions being projected?

I think the answer is that teams have needs they're trying to fill and are willing to invest a higher draft pick for a non-premium position in lieu of paying someone an exorbitant price in free agency. It could also be a weak draft class across the board, or  because there's nobody decent on the market, or that they're strapped against the cap, etc. This, in my opinion, causes teams to overdraft non-premium positions.

It's relatively rare that non-premium positions (FS, SS, MLB, OG, C, RB, TE, K, P) are taken in the first round. Last year, only six of the first 32 picks were non-premium (and two of them were taken in the bottom of the round at #28 and #32). 

In 2015, eight of the first 32 picks were non-premium (and three of them were taken in the bottom of the round at #28, #30, and #31). In 2014, only six of the top 32 picks were non-premium. 

The trend across the league is that most teams use their top picks on positions that have the highest value. Drafting MLBs in the first round is exceptionally rare; drafting 225lb LBs in the first round will happen a handful of times in our lives. 

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4 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

I am not a huge metrics fan but it definitely does provide added value when analyzing players. 

I watched every game this season; dont recall seeing many impact plays from Lee.

And while it is only his rookie season, PFF rates him crap and he had no forced fumbles, no INTs and only 1 sack.

 

 

 

The Jets have 3 turnovers forced since week 8 , nobody on defense is creating turnovers . 

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Just now, RoadFan said:

Don't you dare compare Darron Lee to David Harris!

Harris has been a warrior his entire career.  He has been an inside thumper and the defensive playcaller for years.  Lee is an undersized roamer whose entire purpose was for coverage.  And he sucks at it.  In other words, Lee is completely useless.

I disagree. The reason he was brought here was to add speed to the linebacking corps. Whether that be in coverage or tackling is YOUR inclination. But to be a linebacker, you have to be able to tackle. Which I think he can

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4 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

I think the answer is that teams have needs they're trying to fill and are willing to invest a higher draft pick for a non-premium position in lieu of paying someone an exorbitant price in free agency. It could also be a weak draft class across the board, or  because there's nobody decent on the market, or that they're strapped against the cap, etc. This, in my opinion, causes teams to overdraft non-premium positions.

It's relatively rare that non-premium positions (FS, SS, MLB, OG, C, RB, TE, K, P) are taken in the first round. Last year, only six of the first 32 picks were non-premium (and two of them were taken in the bottom of the round at #28 and #32). 

In 2015, eight of the first 32 picks were non-premium (and three of them were taken in the bottom of the round at #28, #30, and #31). In 2014, only six of the top 32 picks were non-premium. 

The trend across the league is that most teams use their top picks on positions that have the highest value. Drafting MLBs in the first round is exceptionally rare; drafting 225lb LBs in the first round will happen a handful of times in our lives. 

The best franchises do it. The Pats did it with Mayo. And that was in the top ten. 

But your point is solid. So the premium positions are QB, T, CB, WR,

In this draft only the CB position appears to be top heavy

Edited by UnitedWhofans
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3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The best franchises do it. The Pats did it with Mayo. And that was in the top ten. 

But your point is solid. So the premium positions are QB, T, CB, WR,

In this draft only the CB position appears to be top heavy

The Cheaters have only done that once in the past ten years and made that pick while being settled at every major position. That's the luxury of being great. To your point, I'd be singing a different tune if we had any talent at any of our core positions. We literally have nothing at QB, CB, LT, and OLB. We shouldn't be drafting safeties or middle linebackers with our top picks until we get the core positions settled.

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Just now, Jack Straw said:

The Cheaters have only done that once in the past ten years and made that pick while being settled at every major position. That's the luxury of being great. To your point, I'd be singing a different tune if we had any talent at any of our core positions. We literally have nothing at QB, CB, LT, and OLB. We shouldn't be drafting safeties or middle linebackers with our top picks until we get the core positions settled.

BINGO

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8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I disagree. The reason he was brought here was to add speed to the linebacking corps. Whether that be in coverage or tackling is YOUR inclination. But to be a linebacker, you have to be able to tackle. Which I think he can

You "think he can?"  Did you actually see much evidence this year to support your thoughts?

I certainly didn't.  In fact, the only times I even noticed Lee was playing was during his Kyle Wilson imitations. And an occasional temper flare up on the sideline.

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Just now, RoadFan said:

You "think he can?"  Did you actually see much evidence this year to support your thoughts?

I certainly didn't.  In fact, the only times I even noticed Lee was playing was during his Kyle Wilson imitations. And an occasional temper flare up on the sideline.

3rd amongst rookie linebackers in tackles.

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5 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

The Cheaters have only done that once in the past ten years and made that pick while being settled at every major position. That's the luxury of being great. To your point, I'd be singing a different tune if we had any talent at any of our core positions. We literally have nothing at QB, CB, LT, and OLB. We shouldn't be drafting safeties or middle linebackers with our top picks until we get the core positions settled.

I was hoping for a Tackle last year and we picked, Lee.

Now we have more holes than a Swiss Cheese and not enough picks.

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35 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Because a coach could never ever change his system to fit the players he has . 

Of course he could. But the Jets have a bunch of players who would thrive in one system and a bunch of players who would thrive in another. He's been trying to fit square pegs into round holes and I think that it has rubbed some of the defensive players the wrong way. 

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8 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not even close. I do agree that Lee needs to work on his coverage skills. But I do like his effort and his ability to tackle despite his small size. I also wonder if he is better off as an OLB instead of an ILB.

It's not IDzik level bad because most of the players are still here and playing.

But most of Idzik's guys stuck around for at least 1 year, too and these guys are indeed playing but they're playing on a 4-11 team.

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7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Bowles is an idiot because Macc is getting him players ill equipped for his system? Really?

It's foolish to believe that Bowles didn't have a say in picking Lee.

a good coach changes his system to get the best out of his players

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