Per Manish, but worth a thread on Hackenberg's future

[tfine]

I love how this kid hasn't taken a single NFL snap and he's already a bust because the media said lol. The media has you guys wrapped around their little finger.....

[Integrity28]

37 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

NFL QB either you are one or you aren't. 

Things aren't looking good at the moment for Hack. 

We might not have an NFL QB on the roster. 

PURE INSIGHT.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

PURE INSIGHT.

THIS IS THE KIND OF SCORCHING HOT TAKE I COME TO JN FOR.

[munchmemory]

Hack's future in visual terms:

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Hack's future in visual terms:

I like it as he mows down those that get in his way.

[munchmemory]

53 minutes ago, tfine said:

I love how this kid hasn't taken a single NFL snap and he's already a bust because the media said lol. The media has you guys wrapped around their little finger.....

Kinda like how the team, and some fans, can say just about anything and some folks will swallow it hook, line, and sinker.  Remember "trust in Rex/Tanny"?  Gholston will be a sack monster?  Neil O'Donnell's off-season signing just elevated the Jets to Super Bowl contenders?  Bubby Brister is the answer?  Blair Thomas' fumble on MNF won't effect his performance the rest of the year/career?  Chad Pennington is the "next Joe Montana"?  Steve Gutman is a genius?  Terry Bradaway must be kept as a draft consultant because of his visionary approach and aplomb to evaluating NFL prospects?

[Warfish]

8 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Smokin' China --> Rider. Enjoy.

Indeed, looking forward to the announcement for DP #21 soon.

[Ex-Rex]

13 hours ago, k-met57 said:

If hack never becomes a start worthy NFL QB, even a high level backup...Mac should get fired. When you go against the grain, you better be the smartest guy in the room.

Can't fire a guy over one missed pick. Everybody misses here and there. I agree that you should never reach, but Tannenbaum did that for years before he was kicked to the curb. I will say that this seasons draft is huge for Macc. If he misses this year there will be no reason to retain him. 

[munchmemory]

13 hours ago, mkajet01 said:

If hack was any good they would have played him

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 

Case in point is Connor Cook who starts this weekend in a playoff game.   We went with Fitz in two meaningless games.   Hack was picked like 50 spots earlier.  Scary.

[Jet_Engine1]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Thing is predicted.

2. Thing occurs.

3. Becomes exceedingly obvious that thing was correctly forecast.

4. Thing confirmed by multiple sources with daily access to team.

5. Jets fans: "That thing is a myth!"

6. Jets repeat thing.

So say we all.

[Jet_Engine1]

If Blaize had been taken in the third or fourth round, nobody would care. He would be a mid round pick, development QB project.

 

But he was taken in the second. Before a lot of guys who have actually, like, played and contributed already. 

 

Not Hacks fault, he's as much a victim in this as anyone. But now he's a second rounder, a "High Pick". Hell, HE might even believe he has an actual future as an NFL QB.

 

And that's just mean. Savage, MacCagnan. Savage......

[peebag]

14 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Case in point is Connor Cook who starts this weekend in a playoff game.   We went with Fitz in two meaningless games.   Hack was picked like 50 spots earlier.  Scary.

I don't think the Raiders have a choice....Cook is last man standing.

[drsamuel84]

everyone was so worried that putting Hack into a game without being ready was going to kill his confidence.  Ironically, it's looking like the opposite.  The media has nothing to write about the guy b/c they haven't seen him so they take the easy click bait approach of killing the kid and quoting anonymous sources.  I just hope he's able to rise above it and NY doesn't kill him before he has a chance to play. 

[Beerfish]

The Curious Case of Christian Hackenburg (Sounds like a Sherlock Holmes novel)

The Player:

This guy was shot before even being drafted.  He was a big high school recruit did okay in his 1st year in college  (Not fantastic, okay.  20tds, 10 ints and 59% comp rating).

Due to circumstances beyond his control (talent leaving and scholarship limits) and a new coaching regime he got the stuffing kicked out of him for the next two years and regressed badly probably hurting his mechanics, pocket presence etc. (Comp% decreased to 56, then 54%) 

QB's that become 'shot' after this kind of thing almost never recover.  There may be the odd example of guys coming into the league having a rough go and then recovering but many don't the classic example being David Carr.

His performance in the Ex season overall was awful.  He did have one nice drive and one nice td pass, I'll give him that but other than that it was a picture into what we have, 37 and 35% comp ratings in his two games, games which have simple plays and simple plans on both sides of the ball.

The GM Who Drafted The Player:

Cardinal sins #1 and #2:  Don't fall in love with risk players and let the draft come to you do not chase the draft.  Even our esteemed John Idzik knew this one, he wanted Geno Smith but didn't fall for the temptation to take him at 9 or 13.  He let the draft come to him and took Geno in the 2nd round.  Macagnan fell in love with a risk player, the risks were not minor blips easily swept aside and he let the 'upside' attributes over rule the huge risk factors.  He fell into the trap of thinking he was going to get a steal but then over drafting the player making it a reach instead of a 'we can;t believe he was still on the board' steal. 

He should have known better, he was part of the team that drafted David Carr who like Hackenbrug got the stuffing beat out of him and became shot.  He was part of the team that drafted Tom Savage because he was big and had a good arm and had faced big turbulence in college.

The Plan:

There never was a 'plan'.  People trumpet that he was going to be red shirted from day one (a term you NEVER hear in the pros).  It's also not really correct from the words of Mac right after the draft, he said they would not force the guy too early and would see how things go, after seeing him a few times they locked into the red shirt theme.

Merely sitting a guy out for a full year is NOT a plan.  There has to be things that go along with that, working on his deficiencies diligently, as he progresses bit move him up the depth chart. (3 garbage QBs in front of him,) , give him at least some mop up duty when the opportunity arises at the end of the year.  Nope! 

We also now see that Gailey already had one foot out the door and the fact that we had 3 terrible QBs in front of Hackenburg, the OC and the QB coach were going to have their hands full.  (Just epic that the team with perhaps the worst QBing in the league carried 4 QBs on the roster all year but only dressed two of them.)  We were forced to carry Hackenbrug on the roster instead of the psqusd simply because he was a 2nd round pick.  And then we complain that the ST coach had no quality bottom of roster st guys.

The player was shot, the GM way over drafted a guy with serious problems, the coaches just shuffled him to the back and there was no legit plan for his development.

The Jets out Jets'd themselves on this one.

I still like Macaganan over all but his fate now rests squarely on whether he can find a decent to good starter in the next two years to make everyone forget about monumental team gaff.

As for Manish?  He's a sheer and utter putz but I have no doubt what he is saying is the truth.

 

 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Curious Case of Christian Hackenburg (Sounds like a Sherlock Holmes novel)

The Player:

This guy was shot before even being drafted.  He was a big high school recruit did okay in his 1st year in college  (Not fantastic, okay.  20tds, 10 ints and 59% comp rating).

Due to circumstances beyond his control (talent leaving and scholarship limits) and a new coaching regime he got the stuffing kicked out of him for the next two years and regressed badly probably hurting his mechanics, pocket presence etc. (Comp% decreased to 56, then 54%) 

QB's that become 'shot' after this kind of thing almost never recover.  There may be the odd example of guys coming into the league having a rough go and then recovering but many don't the classic example being David Carr.

His performance in the Ex season overall was awful.  He did have one nice drive and one nice td pass, I'll give him that but other than that it was a picture into what we have, 37 and 35% comp ratings in his two games, games which have simple plays and simple plans on both sides of the ball.

The GM Who Drafted The Player:

Cardinal sins #1 and #2:  Don't fall in love with risk players and let the draft come to you do not chase the draft.  Even our esteemed John Idzik knew this one, he wanted Geno Smith but didn't fall for the temptation to take him at 9 or 13.  He let the draft come to him and took Geno in the 2nd round.  Macagnan fell in love with a risk player, the risks were not minor blips easily swept aside and he let the 'upside' attributes over rule the huge risk factors.  He fell into the trap of thinking he was going to get a steal but then over drafting the player making it a reach instead of a 'we can;t believe he was still on the board' steal. 

He should have known better, he was part of the team that drafted David Carr who like Hackenbrug got the stuffing beat out of him and became shot.  He was part of the team that drafted Tom Savage because he was big and had a good arm and had faced big turbulence in college.

The Plan:

There never was a 'plan'.  People trumpet that he was going to be red shirted from day one (a term you NEVER hear in the pros).  It's also not really correct from the words of Mac right after the draft, he said they would not force the guy too early and would see how things go, after seeing him a few times they locked into the red shirt theme.

Merely sitting a guy out for a full year is NOT a plan.  There has to be things that go along with that, working on his deficiencies diligently, as he progresses bit move him up the depth chart. (3 garbage QBs in front of him,) , give him at least some mop up duty when the opportunity arises at the end of the year.  Nope! 

We also now see that Gailey already had one foot out the door and the fact that we had 3 terrible QBs in front of Hackenburg, the OC and the QB coach were going to have their hands full.  (Just epic that the team with perhaps the worst QBing in the league carried 4 QBs on the roster all year but only dressed two of them.)  We were forced to carry Hackenbrug on the roster instead of the psqusd simply because he was a 2nd round pick.  And then we complain that the ST coach had no quality bottom of roster st guys.

The player was shot, the GM way over drafted a guy with serious problems, the coaches just shuffled him to the back and there was no legit plan for his development.

The Jets out Jets'd themselves on this one.

I still like Macaganan over all but his fate now rests squarely on whether he can find a decent to good starter in the next two years to make everyone forget about monumental team gaff.

As for Manish?  He's a sheer and utter putz but I have no doubt what he is saying is the truth.

 

 

i agree with a lot of what you said, except for the player being shot.  i think hack went from a bad situation at penn state to a team in flux, where there was team bickering, an OC who was not long for the team, and 2 lame-duck qbs who were going to play for an ultra conservative coach who will never admit he was coaching for his job all season long.  what happened was hack was an afterthought in what turned out to be a disastrous season in most respects, and will result in a major housecleaning in both the players and coaches.

what does this mean for hack?  unfortunately, given the upheaval of the offensive coaching staff and the team's overall negligent approach to offense, it is once again incumbent upon hack to seek out tutors like jordan palmer and work his butt off all offseason so he can come into camp and prove he can compete for the job.  i just have no faith in the jets organization's ability to put together a team to develop a qb.  

[PepPep]

Moronic. 

An unnamed source. An anonymous starter. What a load. 

I thought it was made very clear by the Jets brass and CS that Hack was going to sit this year out. How is anyone surprised he didn't get to play? 

Close this thread please. 

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i agree with a lot of what you said, except for the player being shot.  i think hack went from a bad situation at penn state to a team in flux, where there was team bickering, an OC who was not long for the team, and 2 lame-duck qbs who were going to play for an ultra conservative coach who will never admit he was coaching for his job all season long.  what happened was hack was an afterthought in what turned out to be a disastrous season in most respects, and will result in a major housecleaning in both the players and coaches.

what does this mean for hack?  unfortunately, given the upheaval of the offensive coaching staff and the team's overall negligent approach to offense, it is once again incumbent upon hack to seek out tutors like jordan palmer and work his butt off all offseason so he can come into camp and prove he can compete for the job.  i just have no faith in the jets organization's ability to put together a team to develop a qb.  

I'm not blaming him for being shot and I don't hate the guy at all, most of his problems don't seem to stem from him but from other circumstances but in the grand scheme if things it doesn't matter why he is what he is.

[Beerfish]

13 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Moronic. 

An unnamed source. An anonymous starter. What a load. 

I thought it was made very clear by the Jets brass and CS that Hack was going to sit this year out. How is anyone surprised he didn't get to play? 

Close this thread please. 

The 'don;t get to play' bit would have some relevance at all if there was this much talked about plan attached to it, there was no plan.  Also this article is not based on him not playing but is stating that several sources say he is terrible.  Players do not get better merely by sitting out.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm not blaming him for being shot and I don't hate the guy at all, most of his problems don't seem to stem from him but from other circumstances but in the grand scheme if things it doesn't matter why he is what he is.

i don't think hack is a headcase.  i think he needs a real positive learning environment to have a chance to become an nfl starter and year 1 on the jets was anything but that.

[shuler82]

I like Hack. Same can't be said about post-Star Ledger Manish.

I was also in my seats early for the last game of the year vs the Bills and saw Hack warm up. He was repeatedly missing WRs in simply timing drills.  I hope beyond hope that Hack turns out to be the real deal, but I also don't rule out this report not being true just because it's another one of Manish's anonymous sources speaking out. 

[Jack Straw]

Everyone should good rewatch every throw from Hackenberg's pre-season performances. When his lower body was working as it should (stepping into throws), he looked very much like a starting QB. Unfortunately, he was consistently flat-footed/falling backwards/standing still in clean pockets, and was highly erratic because of it. It takes 10,000+ throws (Gailey's words) to correct these issues, and then we have to see if the muscle memory actually works when there are bodies flying around his feet in live action.

10,000+ throws means he needs to be throwing 100 passes a day for 100 days. If he throws 100 balls/day, five days a week, that means he'd need five months to get his mechanical issues fixed in time for 2017. If he started working on his issues starting January 1st, it's not impossible for him to show up looking much different in Minicamp in May/June.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

I don't think the Raiders have a choice....Cook is last man standing.

At least with Cook he was dressed for all games this year and was 'part of the team.'

[kmnj]

hack sucks and so do the coaches for not allowing him to get in game experience in meaningless games

he will never be ready folks deal with it-he will be less productive than browning nagle

our gm set up this team with 4 qbs and each and every one of them sucks-we will now head into the third year of his regime and  who will  our qb be? I can even see them bringing fitz back -that is how bad our gm is

[PepPep]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The 'don;t get to play' bit would have some relevance at all if there was this much talked about plan attached to it, there was no plan.  Also this article is not based on him not playing but is stating that several sources say he is terrible.  Players do not get better merely by sitting out.

 

Its simple. Anonymous sources saying a player will never make it, without any explanation as to why should be ignored. There is no credence to it- especially if the kid had not gotten a chance to get on the field and show what he can do. It would be one thing if he was playing and stinking it up. Then you could argue, okay, anonymous or not, they are obviously basing their opinion on his play. But this has no merit. What are they basing this on? Practice? A few quarters last pre-season. His college career? I mean, seriously. 

Everyone deserves to have their opinion, that's fine, but if you are so sure of yourself that you are ready to sink another player, put your name to it, coward. Otherwise, you deserve to be ignored. 

He's also not 'shot'. The Carr comparison is inaccurate. Carr was drafted #1 overall. Not late in the second round. Carr had a great college career. He was 'shot' after getting beaten top a pulp on the Texans who could not protect him- AT ALL. Hack, as odd as it may seem, is in a better situation in the NFL (even on the Jets). And, if anything, the GM has his back. So you can expect Macc to provide Hack with a solid oline before he puts him out there and actually give Hack a shot instead of him being buried on the depth chart. 

Ye have little faith. Hack is a talented, hard working, smart kid. He may turn out to be a total bust, but he has all the qualities you look for in a Franchise QB, which is why Macc drafted him.

Also, suggesting that there is NO PLAN, based off nothing, is pretty silly. Macc has a plan. You may not know what it is. But he's not a complete moron. Let's give him some credit. It may be a fluid plan. But there's certainly a plan. The way he scouted QBs, the way he committed to sitting Hack, even if it meant carrying 4 QBs. There is DEFINITELY a plan.You don't draft a QB in the 2nd round without some sort of plan in mind for his development. Now, the plan might be, if he doesn't show a certain level of progress, we may need to change course, or something to that extent. But Macc is not a complete idiot. He wouldn't be where he is if he was.  

[kmnj]

3 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Everyone should good rewatch every throw from Hackenberg's pre-season performances. When his lower body was working as it should (stepping into throws), he looked very much like a starting QB. Unfortunately, he was consistently flat-footed/falling backwards/standing still in clean pockets, and was highly erratic because of it. It takes 10,000+ throws (Gailey's words) to correct these issues, and then we have to see if the muscle memory actually works when there are bodies flying around his feet in live action.

10,000+ throws means he needs to be throwing 100 passes a day for 100 days. If he throws 100 balls/day, five days a week, that means he'd need five months to get his mechanical issues fixed in time for 2017. If he started working on his issues starting January 1st, it's not impossible for him to show up looking much different in Minicamp in May/June.

guess u did not go to any psu games his last season-dude is a trainwreck-

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

I don't think the Raiders have a choice....Cook is last man standing.

Not to stray too far, but check out Cook's sister on Instagram

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Everyone should good rewatch every throw from Hackenberg's pre-season performances. When his lower body was working as it should (stepping into throws), he looked very much like a starting QB. Unfortunately, he was consistently flat-footed/falling backwards/standing still in clean pockets, and was highly erratic because of it. It takes 10,000+ throws (Gailey's words) to correct these issues, and then we have to see if the muscle memory actually works when there are bodies flying around his feet in live action.

10,000+ throws means he needs to be throwing 100 passes a day for 100 days. If he throws 100 balls/day, five days a week, that means he'd need five months to get his mechanical issues fixed in time for 2017. If he started working on his issues starting January 1st, it's not impossible for him to show up looking much different in Minicamp in May/June.

And we have no OC and no Qb coach and who knows when we will be getting them.  Also if they are not vet oc;s they will be spending all of their time getting the play book together and such.  Hackenburg is once again being put in a terrible spot for his development.

This is one more level of disconnect and dysfunction on this team.  coach and GM of = powers the coach having perhaps different priorities than the gm. 

On a real team the GM should be dictating that this QB is a high priority development wise, I don;t think he is to the coaches, especially if he has looked very rocky to start his career,

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, tfine said:

I love how this kid hasn't taken a single NFL snap and he's already a bust because the media said lol. The media has you guys wrapped around their little finger.....

Its not the media its Manurish Metha.

[jack48]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

hack sucks and so do the coaches for not allowing him to get in game experience in meaningless games

he will never be ready folks deal with it-he will be less productive than browning nagle

our gm set up this team with 4 qbs and each and every one of them sucks-we will now head into the third year of his regime and  who will  our qb be? I can even see them bringing fitz back -that is how bad our gm is

I could see them bringing Geno back but not Fitz----cheaper

[August]

I wasn't a fan of the pick but can these goofballs at least let the guy play in a few meaningful games before ripping him?  

[kmnj]

1 minute ago, August said:

I wasn't a fan of the pick but can these goofballs at least let the guy play in a few meaningful games before ripping him?  

the fact that he is not good enough to play in a meaningless game is reason to rip him-the coaches with nothing to play for did not want him to go out and get his confidence hurt-sounds like he not only sucks but is mentally soft too which does not surprise me considering he blamed all of his late college failures on everybody but himself

[Jack Straw]

1 minute ago, kmnj said:

guess u did not go to any psu games his last season-dude is a trainwreck-

He was sacked over 100 times in college. I'm not sure there's a QB in the nation who wouldn't have looked bad in that situation.

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

And we have no OC and no Qb coach and who knows when we will be getting them.  Also if they are not vet oc;s they will be spending all of their time getting the play book together and such.  Hackenburg is once again being put in a terrible spot for his development.

This is one more level of disconnect and dysfunction on this team.  coach and GM of = powers the coach having perhaps different priorities than the gm. 

On a real team the GM should be dictating that this QB is a high priority development wise, I don;t think he is to the coaches, especially if he has looked very rocky to start his career,

Agreed. If Hackenberg is to be successful, it will be despite the Jets doing everything in their power to sabotage him. With the CBA, it's not like the Jets could work with him during the off-season anyway, so it's up to him to get a QB tutor in place and put in the required work to get his issues corrected.

[kmnj]

4 minutes ago, jack48 said:

I could see them bringing Geno back but not Fitz----cheaper

only cheaper cause our gm decided to give hot garbage a 12m raise lol

[SMC]

It must be the culture at the Daily News because they have a bunch of aholes writing in their sports section (the NBA writers are ridiculous) and Manish used to be good before he went there.

The anonymous rips are more problematic for the franchise than Hack.  Hack is what he is and the team is going to give him a public chance to sink or swim. So it's on him.  It's just concerning that certain individuals (even if in the minority) in the organization, including players, are willing to rip a 21 yr old rookie.

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

At least with Cook he was dressed for all games this year and was 'part of the team.'

Yes much better roster allocation, to dress a guy who never played over not dressing a guy.