Tyrod Taylor Thoughts ...

[Charlie Brown]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Hoyer made 2 million dollars this year had 6 TDs and 0 ints in 5 started games for a terrible Bears team with no Alshon for the most part. Not sure what's wrong with that. 

No one is going to take $2 Million dollars as a free agent if they know that they are going to be the starter of an NFL franchise, not even Hoyer....  

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

No one is going to take $2 Million dollars as a free agent if they know that they are going to be the starter of an NFL franchise, not even Hoyer....  

That's why you don't bring in a guy as a starter. You bring in a guy to compete/backup  and push the young guys while being a security blanket in case Petty stinks and Hack can't get it together. And then go all in on a 2018 prospect. 

[thadude]

If we go with Petty/Hack next year it is to tank.  Petty does stink and Hack is a waste of time.

[Charlie Brown]

Just now, Pcola said:

I tend to agree that the going rate for starting QBs is between $15-18M.  The problem is that there is not 32 starting QBs in the league.

Glennon, Hoyer, and Taylor are not starting caliber QBs.  Any team that pays them as such are doing so is delusional and soon to be fired.

If we sign Taylor, it needs to be incentive based and have annual opt out provisions.

 

I am for Glennon and I think that an incentive based deal is the only way to go but the base will be about $13 or $14 Million I'm afraid.

[thadude]

11 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Hoyer made 2 million dollars this year had 6 TDs and 0 ints in 5 started games for a terrible Bears team with no Alshon for the most part. Not sure what's wrong with that. 

Hoyer's numbers were inflated because he faced an awful Colts defense and then an awful Jags D the week after

 

I'd rather have Fitz or Geno back then sign Brian friggin Hoyer

[thadude]

12 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I tend to agree that the going rate for starting QBs is between $15-18M.  The problem is that there is not 32 starting QBs in the league.

Glennon, Hoyer, and Taylor are not starting caliber QBs.  Any team that pays them as such are doing so is delusional and soon to be fired.

If we sign Taylor, it needs to be incentive based and have annual opt out provisions.

 

If you're lumping in Glennon and Taylor with a total scrub like Hoyer that says something about your ability to evaluate the qb position.

[Charlie Brown]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's why you don't bring in a guy as a starter. You bring in a guy to compete/backup  and push the young guys while being a security blanket in case Petty stinks and Hack can't get it together. And then go all in on a 2018 prospect. 

The Jets could go this way.

WHICH I PRAY TO THE LIVING GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY THAT THEY DON'T!!!!  

And probably win 4 to 5 games at most.

I think Glennon gets us to the playoffs, I think that is the difference.

Perhaps Hack or Petty gets to Glennon's level in 2018; so what you are saying is we will flat out suck next year absent a miracle and that maybe the plan and direction that the Jets are choosing to go....

[Charlie Brown]

5 minutes ago, thadude said:

Hoyer's numbers were inflated because he faced an awful Colts defense and then an awful Jags D the week after

 

I'd rather have Fitz or Geno back then sign Brian friggin Hoyer

Thank you Hoyer is awful and he is NOT as good as Fitz or Smith IMO....

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

The Jets could go this way.

WHICH I PRAY TO THE LIVING GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY THAT THEY DON'T!!!!  

And probably win 4 to 5 games at most.

I think Glennon gets us to the playoffs, I think that is the difference.

Perhaps Hack or Petty gets to Glennon's level in 2018; so what you are saying is we will flat out suck next year absent a miracle and that maybe the plan and direction that the Jets are choosing to go....

With our luck we start Petty next year and go 2-14 but the Browns go 1-15 with RG3 starting and we lose out on Darnold.

 

I'd love to tank and get Darnold but tanking is the most inexact science ever and given our horrible luck we have a .00001% chance at actually getting Darnold.  We were beyond attrocious in 2014 and still managed to miss out on Jameis Winston.

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, thadude said:

Hoyer's numbers were inflated because he faced an awful Colts defense and then an awful Jags D the week after

I'd rather have Fitz or Geno back then sign Brian friggin Hoyer

I didn't say I wanted Hoyer either. Just saying there are other options than laying 40 million dollars guaranteed to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

The Jets could go this way.

WHICH I PRAY TO THE LIVING GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY THAT THEY DON'T!!!!  

And probably win 4 to 5 games at most.

I think Glennon gets us to the playoffs, I think that is the difference.

Perhaps Hack or Petty gets to Glennon's level in 2018; so what you are saying is we will flat out suck next year absent a miracle and that maybe the plan and direction that the Jets are choosing to go....

Glennon isn't getting this Jets team to the playoffs. The Jets are going to be bad next season. Time to just accept that and build for a savior in 2018. 

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, thadude said:

With our luck we start Petty next year and go 2-14 but the Browns go 1-15 with RG3 starting and we lose out on Darnold.

 

I'd love to tank and get Darnold but tanking is the most inexact science ever and given our horrible luck we have a .00001% chance at actually getting Darnold.  We were beyond attrocious in 2014 and still managed to miss out on Jameis Winston.

The Browns just signed Gregg Williams. Their defense is going to be much improved. They will win 3 games next year at least.  

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you Hoyer is awful and he is NOT as good as Fitz or Smith IMO....

He also looks like a penis without his helmet on.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I didn't say I wanted Hoyer either. Just saying there are other options than laying 40 million dollars guaranteed to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

Glennon isn't getting this Jets team to the playoffs. The Jets are going to be bad next season. Time to just accept that and build for a savior in 2018. 

Well Petty/Hack/Hoyer is guaranteeing us another one of our patented 4-12 seasons.

 

And we get to miss out on Darnold thanks to a fluke win or two.

[Mecca]

Macc & Bowles are tied together and a scorching hot season. Anything less than 8-8 or a stellar draft will cost them both their jobs. That means it's going to be either Romo, Glennon, Tyrod, Cutler

 

Hoyer/Petty/Geno/Hack/Barkley/Rookie 0.0% chance of happening

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Macc & Bowles are tied together and a scorching hot season. Anything less than 8-8 or a stellar draft will cost them both their jobs. That means it's going to be either Romo, Glennon, Tyrod, Cutler

 

Hoyer/Petty/Geno/Hack/Barkley/Rookie 0.0% chance of happening

I'd rather have Charles Barkley starting at QB than Matt Barkley

 

 

[NoBowles]

57 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Hey I thanked you for your thoughts already. And I didn't answer the last time you asked me a question. I have made my thoughts known on this subject.

That's cool Max, I'm not trying not to be a dick, I'm just trying to have some football conversation. IMHO, Taylors stats look good because he does not throw a pass if it's not WIDE open, which leads to low turnovers but also low passing yards and a much quicker tendency to run, which IMO gets QBs hurt more and is not the way to real success. You can do much worse, and I'd be fine with a big one year contract, I just think a big multi year contract on this guy would be a huge mistake . 

[CanadaSteve]

53 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ok so you don't want to use outside sources........

 

The top 12 QB's in the NFL make between $20-$24 million per year, with the lowest paid starter, Marcus Mariotta, making just over $6 million a year.  That puts the average around the $16-18 million.  There was only 5 starting quarterbacks who were starters that were paid under $15 million this year, one of which was Fitzy at $12 million.  

 

OOPS!  I forgot about Dax getting paid less than $1 million while Tony got paid $18 million to sit on his ass! 

[NoBowles]

53 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ok so you don't want to use outside sources........

I for one want Glennon as our pick up so I am not super high on TT.

But I think that you have a mistaken view of what even an average QB costs in today's NFL.

Fitz was paid at the very low end of the spectrum of starting QBs at $12 Million Dollars.  That is the low end.  You are not going to get a hold the fort QB for less than that, at least not one that is going to be competent.  The fact is that a less than competent QB impacts the entire team, that is why Fitz' play was relevant.

You want to pay say a Hoyer $9 Million Dollars for crappy play like we witnessed this year, do you?

I don't.  

So you are going to have to spend at least $15 Million Dollars for someone, unless Petty or Hack are far closer than we think.

So the idea that TT asking for say $16 Million based upon the current QB market is far from crazy.  People thinking that they are going to get some "hold the fort" guy in here for peanuts are living in FF land.  Only rookie contracts affords a team that kind of leverage,

Of course if Montanna or Marino in their primes were available I would be asking for them but their not.  

Sometimes you just have to ask the plain girl next door to the dance if the prom queen is already spoken for.   Those are just the facts...

I have no problem with Taylor on a one year high dollar contract, its high dollar and multi year that I think is a colossal screw up. 

[Maxman]

17 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

That's cool Max, I'm not trying not to be a dick, I'm just trying to have some football conversation. IMHO, Taylors stats look good because he does not throw a pass if it's not WIDE open, which leads to low turnovers but also low passing yards and a much quicker tendency to run, which IMO gets QBs hurt more and is not the way to real success. You can do much worse, and I'd be fine with a big one year contract, I just think a big multi year contract on this guy would be a huge mistake . 

Hopefully he won't require a big contract. I am all for the Jets being the only one that wants to sign him.

[Charlie Brown]

18 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I didn't say I wanted Hoyer either. Just saying there are other options than laying 40 million dollars guaranteed to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

Glennon isn't getting this Jets team to the playoffs. The Jets are going to be bad next season. Time to just accept that and build for a savior in 2018. 

I  see your plan now, you want to kill me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I  want the JETS to at least lie to me about their chances of winning even if I know the truth!!

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I  see your plan now, you want to kill me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I  want the JETS to at least lie to me about their chances of winning even if I know the truth!!

You want the Jets to Lucy you with the football?

[Mecca]

Alex Smith got 4/68. Tyrod will get essentially the same deal.. most likely the guaranteed money will be in the first two years

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You want the Jets to Lucy you with the football?

I prefer that to what they did to me this year!!!

[Warfish]

Quote

 

Cons

- Doesn't stay in the pocket unless he has max protection
- One read QB, if it's covered he looks to leave the pocket immediately
- Doesn't throw the ball into the middle of the field.  Either because he's short
or doesn't read defenses well.  Therefore he only throws outside the numbers
- His intermediate accuracy isn't great, he "dirts" a lot of easy throws
- Small frame

 

This seems so....familiar.

Yeah.

[Pcola]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

I am for Glennon and I think that an incentive based deal is the only way to go but the base will be about $13 or $14 Million I'm afraid.

If that's the case, we might as well stick with Petty.  Glennon has one year starting experience where he led his team to the #1 pick in the draft.  No way he's worth more than what Fitz got last year.

I think we may be bidding against ourselves anyway for Taylor or Glennon.

Teams needing starting QBs next season:

Cle (Trubisky)

SF (possibly Watson)

Chi (could re-sign Hoyer and/or Barkley.  Could get Watson if SF goes defense.)

NYJ

Buf (If they really want to walk away from Taylor)

So on the musical chairs of QBs, it looks like Buffalo and the Jets and the two QBs left will be Taylor and Glennn.  IMO, no other teams will go after these guys with starting jobs.  If the Bills work out an extension with Taylor, no one else is going to try to sign Glennon so no reason to give him a Bradford type of deal.  

Same can be said if Buffalo wants to move on from Taylor.  No other team will other Taylor a starting gig.  No sense offering him a monster deal.

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Tell me, if Tyrod is so great, why is Buffalo, who has jack and sh*t at QB and hasn't won anything with Tyrod in place, so desperate to dump Tyrod that we (Jets Fans) have a thread pining to sign him?

Let me guess, "fair chance" and "weaponz" are all Tyrod needs, right?

Yeah.

Probably because the Head Coach who wanted him so badly just got fired.  Oh, and if the Bills pick up his option on his contract, they'd potentially owe him $27.5M in guaranteed coin over the subsequent 2 seasons. 

The new HC they hire probably doesn't want to be tied to 2 years of a QB he may not want.  It'll limit the pool of candidates that they can hire their HC from.  So basically the Bills would prefer to start fresh.  New HC, new QB.  Doesn't mean Tyrod Taylor = Geno Smith II. 

[Pcola]

17 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Alex Smith got 4/68. Tyrod will get essentially the same deal.. most likely the guaranteed money will be in the first two years

If Macc gives him that kind of deal, we can start speculating on our next GM.  

Alex Smith was the #1 pick in the draft and has been to the playoffs and I think he won 12 games in a row last year and clinched his division this year.  No where Taylor is going is he going to the playoffs, even if he turns into Alex Smith.

[Jetsfan80]

There's a fairly disgusting level of "black QB always = Michael Vick" narrative going on here, btw.  Tyrod may often look to run when his first read isn't open, but that isn't always the worst thing.  Wonder why he doesn't throw a lot of picks?  Probably because he can either get yardage with his feet OR get outside of the pocket and throw it away. 

And why is his first read not open so often do you ask?  And why doesn't he have the confidence to "throw him open" like so many elite QB's can do?

Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Justin Hunter, Brandon Tate.  There's 4 reasons. 

[LIJetsFan]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a fairly disgusting level of "black QB always = Michael Vick" narrative going on here, btw.  Tyrod may often look to run when his first read isn't open, but that isn't always the worst thing.  Wonder why he doesn't throw a lot of picks?  Probably because he can either get yardage with his feet OR get outside of the pocket and throw it away. 

And why is his first read not open so often do you ask?  And why doesn't he have the confidence to "throw him open" like so many elite QB's can do?

Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Justin Hunter, Brandon Tate.  There's 4 reasons. 

Good post.....I was watching the Packers game today and Rogers seems to do his share of scrambling....so not necessarily a bad thing...

[Rexorcism]

If Tyrod's available in Free Agency Macc better try to sign him, he's easily better than all 4 of our dildoes put together


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[NoBowles]

8 hours ago, Mecca said:

Alex Smith got 4/68. Tyrod will get essentially the same deal.. most likely the guaranteed money will be in the first two years

That would be such an awful contract for the Jets.

[NoBowles]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a fairly disgusting level of "black QB always = Michael Vick" narrative going on here, btw.  Tyrod may often look to run when his first read isn't open, but that isn't always the worst thing.  Wonder why he doesn't throw a lot of picks?  Probably because he can either get yardage with his feet OR get outside of the pocket and throw it away. 

And why is his first read not open so often do you ask?  And why doesn't he have the confidence to "throw him open" like so many elite QB's can do?

Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Justin Hunter, Brandon Tate.  There's 4 reasons. 

Why is it a black issue? I don't get it. Not everything is about race.

The problem with that mentality of running if primary receiver is covered is that you get hurt. If you get hurt you miss games. As for his receivers, yeah, they are not great, but Taylor completely ignores the middle of the field. There have been plenty of plays where those guys are wide open and he does not get it to them over the middle. Teams take away the outside of the field and leave the middle fairly open because he ignores it. They will take his 10 yard scrambles occasionally too. 

He also had the benefit of a fantastic running game, and very good out of the backfield receiving.

 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably because the Head Coach who wanted him so badly just got fired.  Oh, and if the Bills pick up his option on his contract, they'd potentially owe him $27.5M in guaranteed coin over the subsequent 2 seasons. 

The new HC they hire probably doesn't want to be tied to 2 years of a QB he may not want.  It'll limit the pool of candidates that they can hire their HC from.  So basically the Bills would prefer to start fresh.  New HC, new QB.  Doesn't mean Tyrod Taylor = Geno Smith II. 

Jets Fans, forever pining for other teams castoffs and failures.  It's just sad.

You can fantasize all you like, what I see in Tyrod is the exact same kind of player, with the exact same weaknesses, as Geno Smith.  Can't read Defenses, can;t see over the middle, locks onto receivers, runs too early and too often, is easy to scheme for and scheme against because he doesn't understand defenses at all, about the only thing Tyrod looks better about is turnovers, admittedly. But here, here he'll be Geno II, and we'll have to listen to another four years lamenting some theoretical lack of fair chances and weapons while Tyrod fails to develop further.  No thanks, been there, done that, still listening to Jets Fans demanding we keep the last loser even now..

If he were all that, the Bills would want to retain him, no matter who their next Head Coach is.  Talent is talent, and Buffalo has absolutely nothing behind Tyrod at current, less even than us.  If he's as good as you all think, he's going to make bank regardless.  The fantasy that he is both great AND cheap AND only we want him, really?  Lol, no.

If he were so good, he'd have beat the piss out of our Jets Defense and beaten Fitzpatrick, the worst QB in the NFL this year, head to head.  He didn't.

Is he better thus far than Geno, sure, who isn't tbqh.  The numbers don't lie, especially on turnovers.  Is Tyrod a franchise QB who will take them team on his back and lead us to the postseason and more?  I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that thus far in his career.  Already we're hearing form Jets fans it was all about a "lack of weapons" on the Bills.....how many times do we have to hear THAT script of excuse making for the same kinds of QB's?

So lets see, a Geno-alike who can't read defenses and couldn't crush the Jets pathetic pass Defense, who will costs us well above the average QB salary for multiple years, and investment that all but requires us to start him (and thus abandon totally Petty and Hack) the next 3-4 years?  No thanks.

I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL.  

 

 

[Integrity28]

Tyrod Taylor isn't going to become a Jet. There's no reason to carry on with this... 

• Bills owners have expressed remorse for forcing Lynn to bench him in week 17.
• If Lynn gets the HC job permanently, then he's going to advocate for keeping Taylor.
• If he does get released, then...
• Several teams across the league need a QB, the Jets are never anyone's first choice.
• Mac has a history of under-estimating player value, from asking for too much in trades, or not offering enough, or coming up short on contracts that could actually be difference-makers.
• No chance.

[Snell41]

This is a "cake and eat it too" discussion we're having. People here seem to heavily support Tyrod, but then say things like "cap friendly deal, low money, short term.....". Time and time again the NFL has shown that QB's that have flashed what Tyrod has flashed, hell QB's that flashed far less, get paid big time deals.

So the question isn't whether you like Tyrod, the question is are you willing to commit Osweiler money to him along with the next 3 seasons to him. That's what it's going to take.


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