southtown24th Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: Watson knows how to win. Period. I would draft him yesterday and I'm a big Hack guy. Draft this kid and play him day one. Is there a witness protection program set up yet for "Big Hack Guys"? If not, then there should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: Sure, but they all had a ruthless attribute: Namath's throwing ability; Montana's field vision; brady*'s cheating; A-A-Ron's everything; Peyton's cerebral facilities. What's Deshaun's? Prior to the 216 season began PFF did an article on him. https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-what-makes-deshaun-watson-a-2016-heisman-front-runner/ 1. He excels on downfield throws 2. He is very effective at throwing on the move 3. His running ability makes him a genuine dual-threat 4. He has the arm strength to fit throws into tight windows 5. He has room to get even better He pretty much went out and did all of the above and still can get better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I like Watson, I like Mahomes II.... Seriously... Odds you have to move up to 1st overall to get Watson today (1/10/2017)? what is the cost to move to 1 overall... can we sent Mo Wilk or Sheldon to CLE with our 1st pick? and maybe Mangold? these conversations will be so played out by next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Warfish said: Personally, I would much rather draft a QB who comes with three things: 1. Experience in a Pro-Style Pocket-Passer Offense that more easily translates to the NFL (i.e. no gimmick offenses, no run-first QB's) with an appropriate NFL-strength arm (doesn't need a cannon, does need an average-level NFL arm). 2. Has a proven resume of three-to-four years of success and production at the College level (i.e. shown over multiple years a 60%+ Comp rate and a 3-1 TD to INT rate minimum.) No "workout hype warriors" with poor resumes, please. 3. Has exemplified maturity and responsibility and leadership in college. No headcases. No disciplinary cases. No immaturity run rampant. That's my preference. With that said, I strongly prefer to DRAFT QB's rather than sign FA QB's. I believe in building from the draft. I believe in not overpaying for other teams castoffs, busts and second chancers. I believe you build by drafting QB's, developing them, giving them a chance, and discarding them if they fail (Petty, we're almost looking at you on that fail part mate!). Drafted QB's are cheap, plentiful, and recyclable (i.e. you can cheaply acquire two a year every year if you like, giving you more chances to find someone special). So, if there is a QB who meets my 3-item criteria above, draft them, as soon in the draft as is required to get them. Does Watson fulfill my critieria? I don't watch or follow minor league football and only play catch up when the guides come out pre-Draft, so you'll have to tell me. Great. Even Peyton Manning wouldn't have met your criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, detectivekimble said: Great. Even Peyton Manning wouldn't have met your criteria. HAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickTamland Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 What makes this conversation pretty easy for me in taking Deshaun, at this point, is that the other perceived top pick players are either DL (Garrett/Allen) WR (Williams), RB (fournette/cook) or S (Adams/Hooker/Peppers) with one OT (Robinson) in the mix. QB is a huge need. DL is not. WR is not unless we drop Marshall. RB we do need a young guy but the value is bad. Same for safeties. And the OT is somewhat iffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, southtown24th said: HAHAHA I'm only referring to the incident in which Peyton stuck his ass (and maybe testicles) in the female trainer's face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, southtown24th said: Is there a witness protection program set up yet for "Big Hack Guys"? If not, then there should be. haha, I'm not hiding. I love the kid but think he was over drafted and we don't have time to wait. Watson is ready now and I wanted him last year. Obviously he chose to stay in school one more year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stark said: I like Watson, I like Mahomes II.... Seriously... Odds you have to move up to 1st overall to get Watson today (1/10/2017)? what is the cost to move to 1 overall... can we sent Mo Wilk or Sheldon to CLE with our 1st pick? and maybe Mangold? these conversations will be so played out by next week. You'd have to assume that Cleveland doesn't like Watson. If they like him, they're not trading that pick, just like Tennessee wasn't trading away #2 so that someone else could draft Mariota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: haha, I'm not hiding. I love the kid but think he was over drafted and we don't have time to wait. Watson is ready now and I wanted him last year. Obviously he chose to stay in school one more year. I also wanted Watson last year and here he is....will he even be there at #6 after all this? Doubt it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: You'd have to assume that Cleveland doesn't like Watson. If they like him, they're not trading that pick, just like Tennessee wasn't trading away #2 so that someone else could draft Mariota. Oh, I agree.. I really wanted Mariota that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 hours ago, nycdan said: There's one other qualifier that wasn't mentioned. Who was he throwing to? How much does Mike Williams elevate Watson's performance? How do you quantify that? Williams made some tremendous catches last night. Made him look good. Watson is not playing in a pro style system. He will be a project. He missed badly in some plays. He's a one read and then run QB. Doesn't have a real rifle arm. Petty is light years ahead of him presently. I'm not impressed with him. Right now if the Jets get a QB in 2017 they should pick up a veteran QB that could start immediately if they think they have to continue to develop Petty and Hack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Great. Even Peyton Manning wouldn't have met your criteria. It's a guide of what to look for. It's not hard and fast ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 You know what, this was the first college game I watched specifically to see Watson and with the doldrums we have been in I am going to say the heck with it, we have nothing more to lose and can only go up. Honestly, to me the kid looks like a winner and if he dropped to me at the 6th pick I would take him. Again, if he doesn't pan out at least we tried. Trubinsky could be another Sanchez with only 1 year of college exp. and Kizer I don't know well enough to comment. The best players within the top 6 like OLB Garret and RB Cook, that I think are best for us will probably be gone in the first 5 picks and after that if I have a choice between WR Milliams (in which we are in pretty good shape at WR), RB Fourtene(sp?), in which we are not too bad off at RB, and Tim Williams OLB Pass rusher, I would just have to think long and hard between OLB Tim Williams and QB Watson. If both of those 2 are available the only way I don't pick Watson is if I felt we are going to pick in the top 2 or 3 in 2018 1st round to get a better QB prospect and there is no gaurentee of that since we always find a way to win a handful of meaningless games to drop too far down in the draft to get a great QB prospect and when we do get a high enough pick the QB doesn't declare for the draft to avoid being our QB (See P. Manning that year when we had 1st overall). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Warfish said: It's a guide of what to look for. It's not hard and fast ffs. Interestingly enough, "hard and fast" is the entry sign on the door to the JN mod lounge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC611 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Warfish said: Personally, I would much rather draft a QB who comes with three things: 1. Experience in a Pro-Style Pocket-Passer Offense that more easily translates to the NFL (i.e. no gimmick offenses, no run-first QB's) with an appropriate NFL-strength arm (doesn't need a cannon, does need an average-level NFL arm). 2. Has a proven resume of three-to-four years of success and production at the College level (i.e. shown over multiple years a 60%+ Comp rate and a 3-1 TD to INT rate minimum.) No "workout hype warriors" with poor resumes, please. 3. Has exemplified maturity and responsibility and leadership in college. No headcases. No disciplinary cases. No immaturity run rampant. That's my preference. With that said, I strongly prefer to DRAFT QB's rather than sign FA QB's. I believe in building from the draft. I believe in not overpaying for other teams castoffs, busts and second chancers. I believe you build by drafting QB's, developing them, giving them a chance, and discarding them if they fail (Petty, we're almost looking at you on that fail part mate!). Drafted QB's are cheap, plentiful, and recyclable (i.e. you can cheaply acquire two a year every year if you like, giving you more chances to find someone special). So, if there is a QB who meets my 3-item criteria above, draft them, as soon in the draft as is required to get them. Does Watson fulfill my critieria? I don't watch or follow minor league football and only play catch up when the guides come out pre-Draft, so you'll have to tell me. Looking at Watson Negative on number 1 looking at number two, he has gone to the national championship game two years in a row. Pretty good looking resume to me... 3. He graduated from Clemson in three years. I think that speaks well to maturity and responsibility in college. I have said that I do not believe that there is a top ten QB in this class in retrospect I believe I am mistaken. If this young man is available at 6 I say pull the trigger and go CB AND O- line with the next two picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said: You know what, this was the first college game I watched specifically to see Watson and with the doldrums we have been in I am going to say the heck with it, we have nothing more to lose and can only go up. Honestly, to me the kid looks like a winner and if he dropped to me at the 6th pick I would take him. Again, if he doesn't pan out at least we tried. Trubinsky could be another Sanchez with only 1 year of college exp. and Kizer I don't know well enough to comment. The best players within the top 6 like OLB Garret and RB Cook, that I think are best for us will probably be gone in the first 5 picks and after that if I have a choice between WR Milliams (in which we are in pretty good shape at WR), RB Fourtene(sp?), in which we are not too bad off at RB, and Tim Williams OLB Pass rusher, I would just have to think long and hard between OLB Tim Williams and QB Watson. If both of those 2 are available the only way I don't pick Watson is if I felt we are going to pick in the top 2 or 3 in 2018 1st round to get a better QB prospect and there is no gaurentee of that since we always find a way to win a handful of meaningless games to drop too far down in the draft to get a great QB prospect and when we do get a high enough pick the QB doesn't declare for the draft to avoid being our QB (See P. Manning that year when we had 1st overall). AMEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 49 minutes ago, southtown24th said: I also wanted Watson last year and here he is....will he even be there at #6 after all this? Doubt it. I do because the scouts and "experts" are split on what he will be in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 minute ago, NYJ37/12 said: I do because the scouts and "experts" are split on what he will be in the NFL. YES and...after last night, every top 10 picking team who needs a QB is now focused on Watson. Just wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 58 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Great. Even Peyton Manning wouldn't have met your criteria. I WANT A 100% SURE THING. OTHERWISE DRAFT ANOTHER DEFENSIVE TACKLE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, sourceworx said: I WANT A 100% SURE THING. OTHERWISE DRAFT ANOTHER DEFENSIVE TACKLE! Just because someone is a great QB prospect in this draft class does not mean he is a great QB prospect overall. I love how fans are all about passing on workout warriors or picks that rise quickly right before the draft because they know it tends not to work out but because of ONE GAME last night, now Watson should go from 2nd round pick to Top 5 selection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Stark said: Yeah most people want to take a sure bet... however we have like what, a 1% chance of having the number 1 overall pick when Darnold comes out... you want to just do what for the next 2 seasons? build the team with no QB and hope we have a worse record than the Browns that year. I am sure there will be teams that will be worse than us and we won't even have a chance to draft Darnold. Going to be like Peyton Manning or Luck... and the team at 1 overall won't trade out. Next season we play the Pats x 2, Dolphins x 2, Bills x 2, KC, SD, ATL, CAR, JAX, OAK, NO, TB, CLE. Start Hack/Petty next year and the only games we will have to "worry" about winning are the ones against BUF, Dolphins (we always play tough) and CLE (who might pick a QB this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 21 minutes ago, sourceworx said: I WANT A 100% SURE THING. OTHERWISE DRAFT ANOTHER DEFENSIVE TACKLE! "Whoa -- I have a job for you while I'm abroad!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 stop taking guys who only operate out of the shotgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said: stop taking guys who only operate out of the shotgun Problem is that eliminates like 75% of college QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Interestingly enough, "hard and fast" is the entry sign on the door to the JN mod lounge. Wait, didn't you say you were a lesbian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said: Just because someone is a great QB prospect in this draft class does not mean he is a great QB prospect overall. I love how fans are all about passing on workout warriors or picks that rise quickly right before the draft because they know it tends not to work out but because of ONE GAME last night, now Watson should go from 2nd round pick to Top 5 selection. And next yr when the qb draft class is much better, we won't be able to draft the right qb in the top 10 because we wasted another this yr.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said: Next season we play the Pats x 2, Dolphins x 2, Bills x 2, KC, SD, ATL, CAR, JAX, OAK, NO, TB, CLE. Start Hack/Petty next year and the only games we will have to "worry" about winning are the ones against BUF, Dolphins (we always play tough) and CLE (who might pick a QB this year). Are we playing the tough schedule card again already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Are we playing the tough schedule card again already? Unfortunately that's the cards we're dealt without a QB or a talented D. Which of the 5 games we won this year were supposed to be losses in the PS? Maybe the Ravens and 1 of the Bills games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphtrilogy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 draft watson, draft NC guy, draft ND guy, I don't care, keep drafting guys until we hit!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said: Just because someone is a great QB prospect in this draft class does not mean he is a great QB prospect overall. I love how fans are all about passing on workout warriors or picks that rise quickly right before the draft because they know it tends not to work out but because of ONE GAME last night, now Watson should go from 2nd round pick to Top 5 selection. Calm down. I just like busting Warfish's balls. Frankly I don't know enough about Watson to have an opinion on him (I've warmed up to Patrick Mahomes, thanks to Lupz). But the fact that he beat a defense that is arguably the most dominant one in college football history says a lot. Taking a QB early is always a risk. But if you're going to take one, then the one who picked apart that defense isn't a bad choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambo Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 enough with all the crazy talk here is what the dumbest F@@k in north America knows, Watson right now is with out a doubt better than Fitz Petty Geno and hack and in all honesty that's not saying much!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, sourceworx said: Calm down. I just like busting Warfish's balls. Frankly I don't know enough about Watson to have an opinion on him (I've warmed up to Patrick Mahomes, thanks to Lupz). But the fact that he beat a defense that is arguably the most dominant one in college football history says a lot. Taking a QB early is always a risk. But if you're going to take one, then the one who picked apart that defense isn't a bad choice. I didn't think you were being serious, I was just making an overall observation about a lot of the people talking about Watson, not you specifically. I agree with you on the bold, and I'm not even completely against drafting Watson, I'm just against drafting him with a high 1st round pick. Just in general, draft a QB and you're likely to get 2 maybe 3 seasons out of him. Draft a key player at another position and you can easily get 5 -10 years (like it's looking with L. Williams.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said: I didn't think you were being serious, I was just making an overall observation about a lot of the people talking about Watson, not you specifically. I agree with you on the bold, and I'm not even completely against drafting Watson, I'm just against drafting him with a high 1st round pick. Just in general, draft a QB and you're likely to get 2 maybe 3 seasons out of him. Draft a key player at another position and you can easily get 5 -10 years (like it's looking with L. Williams.) The problem with that is the league has so over-emphasized the importance of the QB position that you pretty much have to reach for one if you need one. Watson may be a second round talent, but you'll have to use a higher pick if you like him. More often than not, you'll do so and fail. But you can't afford to refrain from trying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, sourceworx said: The problem with that is the league has so over-emphasized the importance of the QB position that you pretty much have to reach for one if you need one. Watson may be a second round talent, but you'll have to use a higher pick if you like him. More often than not, you'll do so and fail. But you can't afford to refrain from trying. Definitely agree with you there. It just sucks that a top 10 pick should really be a player that can make a strong impact on the team in the long term and I just don't see it with this group of QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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