The problem with every Jets fan...EVER

[JetPotato]

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

this isn't baseball, what advantages does he have in NY?

This should be one of the most sought-after GM and coaching positions in the league. Everyone knows winning in this market escalates any player or coach to another level of status. But, it isn't, because Woody is cheap and incompetent.

He has a fan base that supports the team year in and year out, whether its 4 wins or its 9. If he bothered to do some research and price tickets properly, it would be even better.

He had the geography and the resources available to build the greatest stadium in the league.  Instead, he shares one of the worst with the Giants. In East Rutherford, NJ.

Just for starters.

[ZachEY]

Just now, nyjunc said:

please try.  I want to know how many top tier Qbs have played 13+ seasons and won PO games in exactly 2 of them.

you are right on this.

Your assessment of Eli Manning is actually one of the lesser problems with that post.

But, as long as we're jumping through hoops to manipulate data, I'm curious how many non-top tier QBs have two Super Bowl wins getting there entirely on the road in 13+ seasons?

[Bugg]

23 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the new format began in 2002 so it's 5 in 15 years, the other teams w/ more than 5 in the last 15 years:

NE

Pitt

cin(zero PO wins)

Bal

Ind

KC

SD

Den

 

so we'd be 9th on this list.  for playoff wins, only the following have more than us:

NE

Pitt

Bal

Ind

Den

 

we are 6th in the AFC

By any statistical analysis with all else being equal, the Jets under Johnson are a failure, By the same token the Giants, Steelers and Pats have outperformed against the law of averages in the things that matter. 

With 4 teams in the AFCE, with 4 teams, we could expect to have 4 division title. We have 1.Recall also it was a Rube Goldberg bubblegum and spit 9-7 luck out rather than going 12-4,. 

With a 1 in 8 chance in making the title game, we have done so twice, which is really underperforming. Also a 1 in 8 chance of having a first round bye in the playoffs, should have had at least 2, but instead the number is zero.

With a 1 in 16 odds of getting to the Super Bowl, should have gotten there at least once, but our number is zero.  

[SAR I]

25 minutes ago, Bugg said:

6 playoff berths in 17 (35.2%)seasons in a conference where 6 of 16 (37.5%)teams make it every year is actually statistically underperforming. 

Cute, but during each of those years there was a dynasty in our way occupying 3 of those slots, including the greatest team of all time in our own division.  As we well know, franchise quarterbacks and HOF head coaches flip the script.

More like since 2000, 3 AFC teams are always guaranteed a playoff berth (Cheaters, Colts, Broncos, Steelers, Ravens, take your pick) and 3 slots remain for the rest except for the AFC East where there are only 2 wildcards available.

So the math would be more like in 17 seasons x 2 wildcards = 34 slot opportunities and the Jets got 6 of them or 18% whereas a team like the Chargers who have the same number of appearances we have but had the chance to win their division each year had 51 slot opportunities and got 6 of them or 11%.

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not saying it's luck, but in a conference where only 5 teams have won the Super Bowl since 1986 we haven't done that badly.  8th in the AFC in total wins and playoff appearances since 2000. 

We've won a lot of games, we've had a lot of winning seasons, we've had a lot of non-losing seasons, we've made the playoffs rather consistently, we've played meaningful December football often, and while no one is going to throw a parade we had it a lot better than half the teams in the league.

Give Woody a break.  He did okay.

SAR I

All valid points, and unlike many here, I like your posts and honesty.... but in an industry where many of the teams are owned by billionaires, many 2nd generation who have no idea how to run a sports franchise, I say boo.  

Woody is the average sports franchise owner.  A super Rich person with average credibility in the real world who could hire a REAL football man and stay away but hasn't.

Out maneuvering the Browns, Jaguars and Dolphins does not make me pound my chest when I see teams draft better, develop better and market better.

I stand on my statement, that an 18 year old avid football fan, if given the reigns of the JETS could reasonably expect to finish in the middle of the pack by simply hiring a football guy that the league tells you to hire (Herm) or a blowhard like REX.   The real brains in the NFL know REX is a blowhard and they hire a DB coach to make sure their new D1A QB is developed. They have a SB to show for it.

An employee in any company , who is like the NY Jets will not get fired, but he wont lease an X5 anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SAR I]

29 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Since Sanchez' downfall, the franchise has been stuck somewhere between trying to remain "competitive" and rebuilding.  Trying to do both simultaneously never works and ends up setting the franchise back even worse than going into full rebuild mode.  It seems like the Jets always fly by the seat of their pants and never have a legit plan, no matter who the GM or coach is. 

This team is terrible.  They new to blow it up and start over and I think most fans would be on board with this.

I used to think that way, but now I think Woody and Tannenbaum were onto something.

If you do not have a franchise quarterback, rebuilding the 'right' way doesn't work.  The odds of getting a franchise quarterback is single-digit these days, in the last 10 years you've got Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Dalton, Wilson, and Luck and some of them are questionable and none of them are of the caliber of Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Brees.

What the Jets proved from 2000-2012 is that with superior OL and above average DL and Secondary play one can plug-in some proven veterans into playmaking positions and find a decent vet QB (Testaverde, Favre) or a raw rookie QB (Pennington, Sanchez) and consistently eke out a wildcard berth.  And with a little luck we'd have gone to the Super Bowl with Testaverde or Sanchez leading the way, hardly franchise QB material.

So I'm not sure a full rebuild is a good idea.  Perhaps we get the OL stacked again, stop there, draft for need, go wild with free agents, and get another run like the one we just had.  And once the current crop of great QB's is gone, once Brady, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger, maybe Rivers maybe Smith all retire, then what's left?  I count 2 or 3 QB's who might be of that stature.  Then the league is wide-open, then parity truly will reign supreme.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

This should be one of the most sought-after GM and coaching positions in the league. Everyone knows winning in this market escalates any player or coach to another level of status. But, it isn't, because Woody is cheap and incompetent.

He has a fan base that supports the team year in and year out, whether its 4 wins or its 9. If he bothered to do some research and price tickets properly, it would be even better.

He had the geography and the resources available to build the greatest stadium in the league.  Instead, he shares one of the worst with the Giants. In East Rutherford, NJ.

Just for starters.

the fanbase makes it less desirable.  potential coaches and GMs know they will be on the hot seat almost from the start so why would they want to come here for a rebuilding project?  if we had talent they would be running here.

24 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Your assessment of Eli Manning is actually one of the lesser problems with that post.

But, as long as we're jumping through hoops to manipulate data, I'm curious how many non-top tier QBs have two Super Bowl wins getting there entirely on the road in 13+ seasons?

it wasn't entirely on the road and the Ds and STs led both of those Sbs runs.  Eli was good/very good but the Ds holding great offenses in check are why they won.  in 2 SBs Eli led his Os to 17 and 19 pts against offenses that averaged over 30 PPG.  

22 minutes ago, Bugg said:

By any statistical analysis with all else being equal, the Jets under Johnson are a failure, By the same token the Giants, Steelers and Pats have outperformed against the law of averages in the things that matter. 

With 4 teams in the AFCE, with 4 teams, we could expect to have 4 division title. We have 1.Recall also it was a Rube Goldberg bubblegum and spit 9-7 luck out rather than going 12-4,. 

With a 1 in 8 chance in making the title game, we have done so twice, which is really underperforming. Also a 1 in 8 chance of having a first round bye in the playoffs, should have had at least 2, but instead the number is zero.

With a 1 in 16 odds of getting to the Super Bowl, should have gotten there at least once, but our number is zero.  

you seem to be dismissing this tom Brady guy, the fact that we have ONE div title is amazing and we are the ONLY team to win one besides NE in a year  Brady was primary starter.  yes we were 9-7 but the last place team was 8-8, it was a tough division that year and we had to beat NE in NE in week 16 to make it happen, NE wouldn't lose another home game until 2005.

it's not a 1 in 8 chance of making the title game when you have Tom Brady in the division, we are playing for WCs then have to go on the road for 3 games(most likely) to get to SB.  

we have 2 title games under Woody in 17 seasons  from 1969-1999(31 seasons) the Jets made 2.  Only NE, Ind, Den, bal and pitt have more title game apps than us in the AFC since woody took over.

[Bugg]

23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Cute, but during each of those years there was a dynasty in our way occupying 3 of those slots, including the greatest team of all time in our own division.  As we well know, franchise quarterbacks and HOF head coaches flip the script.

More like since 2000, 3 AFC teams are always guaranteed a playoff berth (Cheaters, Colts, Broncos, Steelers, Ravens, take your pick) and 3 slots remain for the rest except for the AFC East where there are only 2 wildcards available.

So the math would be more like in 17 seasons x 2 wildcards = 34 slot opportunities and the Jets got 6 of them or 18% whereas a team like the Chargers who have the same number of appearances we have but had the chance to win their division each year had 51 slot opportunities and got 6 of them or 11%.

SAR I

Again, law of averages, all else being equal means at some point you should break through. It should even out over a 17 year sample.It does not. And since it does not, why bother paying ridiculous fees for overpriced shrimp cocktail, easy exit parking and crappy football and burning a weekend afternoon in the process? 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Claims of success are ludicrous. Since 2000, we've been a middle of the pack franchise. If that's our "best ever" or how you define "success", maybe that's the real problem. Mediocrity sucks, especially in the NFL, since it makes it so difficult to improve. Here's the stats since 2000:

		Total Wins
1	New England	201
2	Indianapolis	185
3	Pittsburgh	175
4	Green Bay	171
5	Denver	164
6	Philadelphia	159
7	Baltimore	157
8	Seattle	152
9	New Orleans	146
10	NY Giants	146
11	Dallas	141
12	Atlanta	140
13	San Diego	136
14	Carolina	134
15	Tennessee	133
16	Chicago	132
17	NY Jets	132
18	Kansas City	132
19	Miami	131
20	Cincinnati	130
21	Minnesota	130
22	San Francisco	125
23	Arizona	121
24	Tampa Bay	121
25	Washington	115
26	Buffalo	112
27	St Louis/LA	111
28	Oakland	108
29	Houston	106
30	Detroit	97
31	Jacksonville	93
32	Cleveland	85

 

		Playoff Appearances
1	New England	14
2	Indianapolis	13
3	Green Bay	13
4	Pittsburgh	11
5	Seattle	11
6	Baltimore	10
7	Denver	9
8	Philadelphia	9
9	NY Giants	8
10	Atlanta	7
11	Cincinnati	7
12	New Orleans	6
13	Dallas	6
14	San Diego	6
15	Carolina	6
16	NY Jets	6
17	Kansas City	6
18	Tennessee	5
19	Minnesota	5
20	San Francisco	5
21	Tampa Bay	5
22	Chicago	4
23	Miami	4
24	Arizona	4
25	Washington	4
26	St Louis/LA	4
27	Oakland	4
28	Houston	4
29	Detroit	2
30	Jacksonville	2
31	Cleveland	1
32	Buffalo	0

so in a division w/ the greatest dynasty of the SB era where we are playing for WCs we are tied for 12th in playoff apps so the top half of the league.  that's pretty good and we were much higher a few years ago before we foolishly started firing people.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Again, law of averages, all else being equal means at some point you should break through. It should even out over a 17 year sample.It does not. And since it does not, why bother paying ridiculous fees for overpriced shrimp cocktail, easy exit parking and crappy football and burning a weekend afternoon in the process? 

we didn't break throuhg in the 70s, 80s, 90s so why w/ the greatest dynasty and greatest QB of all time should we have broken through in the 00s?

[UnitedWhofans]

40 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

This should be one of the most sought-after GM and coaching positions in the league. Everyone knows winning in this market escalates any player or coach to another level of status. But, it isn't, because Woody is cheap and incompetent.

He has a fan base that supports the team year in and year out, whether its 4 wins or its 9. If he bothered to do some research and price tickets properly, it would be even better.

He had the geography and the resources available to build the greatest stadium in the league.  Instead, he shares one of the worst with the Giants. In East Rutherford, NJ.

Just for starters.

Ask the Knicks and Nets about that. They can't get prime FA's to come

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

the fanbase makes it less desirable.  potential coaches and GMs know they will be on the hot seat almost from the start so why would they want to come here for a rebuilding project?  if we had talent they would be running here.

it wasn't entirely on the road and the Ds and STs led both of those Sbs runs.  Eli was good/very good but the Ds holding great offenses in check are why they won.  in 2 SBs Eli led his Os to 17 and 19 pts against offenses that averaged over 30 PPG.  

you seem to be dismissing this tom Brady guy, the fact that we have ONE div title is amazing and we are the ONLY team to win one besides NE in a year  Brady was primary starter.  yes we were 9-7 but the last place team was 8-8, it was a tough division that year and we had to beat NE in NE in week 16 to make it happen, NE wouldn't lose another home game until 2005.

it's not a 1 in 8 chance of making the title game when you have Tom Brady in the division, we are playing for WCs then have to go on the road for 3 games(most likely) to get to SB.  

we have 2 title games under Woody in 17 seasons  from 1969-1999(31 seasons) the Jets made 2.  Only NE, Ind, Den, bal and pitt have more title game apps than us in the AFC since woody took over.

Not dismissing Tom Brady, merely noting that by not getting past him very often over a significant statistical sample period the Jets have in fact failed often

 

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Ask the Knicks and Nets about that. They can't get prime FA's to come

The geographic .advantages of the NY market in the age of the internet have pretty much disappeared. Peyton Manning and Lebron James print money as ad icons in Indianapolis and Cleveland. Add in high taxes, and up your ass 24/7 local media, the hassle and high expense of life here, NY may even be a detriment. 

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Not dismissing Tom Brady, merely noting that by not getting past him very often over a significant statistical sample period the Jets have in fact failed often

 

The geographic .advantages of the NY market in the age of the internet have pretty much disappeared. Peyton Manning and Lebron James print money as ad icons in Indianapolis and Cleveland. Add in high taxes, and up your ass 24/7 local media, the hassle and high expense of life here, NY may even be a detriment. 

so has every other team, if NE was in the west Den would never win it, if they were in the south Indy never would have won it, if they were in the north Pitt and Ball never would have won div titles.  this is a HUGE obstacle.  if we were in any other division we'd probably have multiple div titles and better SB chances.

[jett]

This is new york (new jersey). There is no time to be patient. 

[southparkcpa]

46 minutes ago, jett said:

This is new york (new jersey). There is no time to be patient. 

We have been patient...but as you can see from the 2-3 posters above, there are still those fans who excuse mediocrity by using any excuse possible.

A childhood bedroom of 6th place trophy's probably the cause.

Typical poor sports teams are run in a family dysfunctional manner  and Woody fits that mold closer than he does the Packers or NE.

The Cheaters have been in a SB in the 80's, 90's and well you get it.  But too many fans are happy to excuse mediocrity.

 

 

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

We have been patient...but as you can see from the 2-3 posters above, there are still those fans who excuse mediocrity by using any excuse possible.

A childhood bedroom of 6th place trophy's probably the cause.

Typical poor sports teams are run in a family dysfunctional manner  and Woody fits that mold closer than he does the Packers or NE.

Stop.  That's not what's being said.

What's being said is that the old way of slowly rebuilding may be the wrong decision in today's NFL.  No new quarterbacks are emerging.  The old high-caliber guys like Brady and Roethlisberger are nearing the end and there is no dominant QB of that ilk on the horizon in the AFC when they're gone.  The time may actually be right to do it the Woody/Tanny way.  Build a strong OL and stop the run and have a good secondary, but don't wait to groom some nobody quarterback.  Perhaps that's not the way it works in the near future.  Perhaps all the quarterbacks once these other guys retire are different flavors of Andy Dalton.  We can compete with that right now, we don't have to wait endlessly for the franchise quarterback that is no longer being manufactured.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, jett said:

This is new york (new jersey). There is no time to be patient. 

Exactly.

And the "patient rebuild" doesn't work.  Only 5 teams in the AFC have won the Super Bowl since 1986.  Because through dumb luck they drafted their franchise quarterbacks while everyone else was trying to do the same.  Look how close we came in '98, '09, and '10 with a bunch of free agents and some scrap-heap quarterbacks.  We were more successful than half the teams in the league doing it the "wrong" way and we had a bunch of winning seasons and playoff runs.

What if the future state of the NFL has no dominant quarterbacks like Brady and Roethlisberger?  Then we're patiently waiting for nothing instead of loading up on free agents and making an exciting go of it each year.

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Stop.  That's not what's being said.

What's being said is that the old way of slowly rebuilding may be the wrong decision in today's NFL.  No new quarterbacks are emerging.  The old high-caliber guys like Brady and Roethlisberger are nearing the end and there is no dominant QB of that ilk on the horizon in the AFC when they're gone.  The time may actually be right to do it the Woody/Tanny way.  Build a strong OL and stop the run and have a good secondary, but don't wait to groom some nobody quarterback.  Perhaps that's not the way it works in the near future.  Perhaps all the quarterbacks once these other guys retire are different flavors of Andy Dalton.  We can compete with that right now, we don't have to wait endlessly for the franchise quarterback that is no longer being manufactured.

SAR I

Like bring in Favre and then release him?  Bring in Tebow?  Over pay Holmes, Sanchez Revis and draft extremely poorly for years?

THAT my friend is the Woody Tanny way and why we are buried in mediocrity.

 

 

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Like bring in Favre and then release him?  Bring in Tebow?  Over pay Holmes, Sanchez Revis and draft extremely poorly for years?

THAT my friend is the Woody Tanny way and why we are buried in mediocrity.

 

 

those years sucked, didn't they? Tannenbaum was here from 2006 to 2012, we had just 2 losing seasons, 3 playoff seasons, 4 playoff wins, 2 title game apps.  damn those years sucked, it's so much more fun now.

 

did you enjoy the playoff runs in 2009 or 2010? or were you miserable then too b/c you knew they wouldn't win the SB?

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Like bring in Favre and then release him?  Bring in Tebow?  Over pay Holmes, Sanchez Revis and draft extremely poorly for years?

THAT my friend is the Woody Tanny way and why we are buried in mediocrity.

And what if your definition of "mediocrity" is the future state of the NFL?  When was the last time a Brady/Roethlisberger/Manning HOF caliber quarterback was unearthed?  In the past 10 years the only guys who may have an outside shot at something like that are Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Luck, and Wilson.  A decade of drafted quarterbacks, a decade of hopeful franchises building the so-called 'right' way, not much there. 

No one is praying for 8-8 and a bunch of participant trophies, I get that.  But what if the idea is to get into the playoffs and hope to get hot instead of missing the playoffs and hoping to be so bad as to draft the next Peyton Manning in the exact year he becomes available?  What if the odds are better that you'll eke out a Lombardi simply by being in the mix more often than not instead of sucking so bad you enter the once-a-decade HOF QB lottery?

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

And what if your definition of "mediocrity" is the future state of the NFL?  When was the last time a Brady/Roethlisberger/Manning HOF caliber quarterback was unearthed?  In the past 10 years the only guys who may have an outside shot at something like that are Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Luck, and Wilson.  A decade of drafted quarterbacks, a decade of hopeful franchises building the so-called 'right' way, not much there. 

No one is praying for 8-8 and a bunch of participant trophies, I get that.  But what if the idea is to get into the playoffs and hope to get hot instead of missing the playoffs and hoping to be so bad as to draft the next Peyton Manning in the exact year he becomes available?  What if the odds are better that you'll eke out a Lombardi simply by being in the mix more often than not instead of sucking so bad you enter the once-a-decade HOF QB lottery?

SAR I

Fair point...  I simply believe we build through the draft, strong OLINE  and develop solid players from rounds 1-7.  You and I have agreed that Sanchez , if developed, could have done even better. Franchise QB?  of course not, but could have been the 12th best QB in the league if we had a more well rounded HC.   But we ignored the offense, overpaid Holmes, let Cotch go. Cheaters dont make poor moves like that very often nor do the Packers or Steelers.

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Fair point...  I simply believe we build through the draft, strong OLINE  and develop solid players from rounds 1-7.  You and I have agreed that Sanchez , if developed, could have done even better. Franchise QB?  of course not, but could have been the 12th best QB in the league if we had a more well rounded HC.   But we ignored the offense, overpaid Holmes, let Cotch go. Cheaters dont make poor moves like that very often nor do the Packers or Steelers.

Yes on the OL.  Yes on developing solid players in fundamental positions.  Yes there are certain teams that for decades do things well and we aren't one of them.

But for skill positions and quarterbacks, free agency instead of the draft isn't a bad idea.  It worked better for us than doing it the right way did, that's for sure.  The only reason I bring this up now is because the league is changing at the quarterback position, never before have there been so few good ones and such a disparity between teams that have them and don't.  When you see how few teams win Super Bowls, you have to question the approach the other teams are taking.  If you get lucky and Brady falls in your lap you are set for a decade.  That's not something you can control, not something you can strategize, so don't look at that. 

Instead, look at the teams that didn't have that great quarterback and imagine what they might have accomplished if the dominant guys weren't facing them.  Might the Jets have gone to the Super Bowl a few years back if Manning and Roethlisberger were instead Dalton and Bortles?  Because I think that's where we're heading.  No great quarterbacks anywhere so no need to rebuild patiently while looking for one.

SAR I

[UnitedWhofans]

Jets fans keep asking "Why would he come here unless he sucks"" 

That 's the example of what is wrong with Jets fans. They are conditioned to take EVERY move as negative

[Beerfish]

Jets fans are saying why would a guy come here unless he had no other options and it is a logical thing to suggest.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Jets fans are saying why would a guy come here unless he had no other options and it is a logical thing to suggest.

So why did Dennard Wilson come here instead of going to the Browns with Gregg Williams?

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Jets fans are saying why would a guy come here unless he had no other options and it is a logical thing to suggest.

A former NFL DB is a member of my golf club.  Played in the early 90's. He told me that he made it clear to his agent he didnt want to play for the JETS and many players felt that way.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

A former NFL DB is a member of my golf club.  Played in the early 90's. He told me that he made it clear to his agent he didnt want to play for the JETS and many players felt that way.  

Early 90s I would understand it. They were a mess.  

I think the most games they won in that period were 9 games.

 

 

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So why did Dennard Wilson come here instead of going to the Browns with Gregg Williams?

Who knows Dennard Wilson is hardly a super A list guy,  He might not like Williams, he might like Bowles.  He might foolishly think the Jets have good secondary players

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Early 90s I would understand it. They were a mess.  

I think the most games they won in that period were 9 games.

 

 

actually it was 8(in '91 and '93)

90 6-10

91 8-8

92 4-12

93 8-8

94 6-10

95 3-13

96 1-15

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, nyjunc said:

actually it was 8(in '91 and '93)

90 6-10

91 8-8

92 4-12

93 8-8

94 6-10

95 3-13

96 1-15

Damn, even worse.

IN this stretch we are

8-8, 8-8, 4-12, 10-6, 5-11

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Who knows Dennard Wilson is hardly a super A list guy,  He might not like Williams, he might like Bowles.  He might foolishly think the Jets have good secondary players

That's the point. You don't why people take any jobs. I go back to the Doug Marrone example. Went to Jacksonville and now the HC. Same thing can happen here

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Damn, even worse.

IN this stretch we are

8-8, 8-8, 4-12, 10-6, 5-11

we haven't quite hit the depths of the early/mid 90s even though it felt like it this past season.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, nyjunc said:

we haven't quite hit the depths of the early/mid 90s even though it felt like it this past season.

That's been very strange. People thought last year was a disaster. It wasn't good at all but they went 5-11. They've been worse.

[RutgersJetFan]

17 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jets fans keep asking "Why would he come here unless he sucks"" 

That 's the example of what is wrong with Jets fans. They are conditioned to take EVERY move as negative

And yet, we keep telling you how much you suck and you keep coming back.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's been very strange. People thought last year was a disaster. It wasn't good at all but they went 5-11. They've been worse.

I think when you factor in expectations last year was as bad as I can recall, add in the deaths of Dennis Byrd, McKnight and Ruland and it may be the worst I have seen.  I always that 1992 was the worst.  we were coming off a playoff app(even though it was 8-8), had a young team young coach, high expectations and we won more preseason games(5-0) than reg season games(4-12) and lost Al Toon and dennis Byrd to career ending injuries.