greenwave81 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Mogglez said: Carpenter was injury prone and not even close to being this good when he signed that deal. Factor in the fact that Winters had a better season, only got 2-3 million more and the variables have gone up since, and it's not even remotely close to being the huge overpayment you think it is. Simple fact is that in any new contract like Winters' deal, you're paying 'some extra' for expected progress in the player and 'some extra' to ameliorate the players fear that they'll be underpaid in the future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuler82 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't know. Home grown talent. 25 years old. Ascending play. Market value contract. Can someone remind me why people are complaining again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Can we acknowledged that until this team has a winning tradition that the jets are going to have to overpay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said: I have no problem bringing Winters back. I have a problem giving you much money to an average player coming off major surgery when he could have been resigned cheaper last offseason. Winters is no DeCastro. Per Jason's site, he'd be like the 5th highest RG. By the time the contract is over, he'll probably be in the middle of the pack. If you're cool with bringing him back, your talking about what, the difference of 2M per year out of 168M? The number isn't that serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, shuler82 said: I don't know. Home grown talent. 25 years old. Ascending play. Market value contract. Can someone remind me why people are complaining again? If you look at the contract in a vacuum then it's not that bad. If you look at the bigger picture of interacts handed out by Macc then it's a growing problem of a general manager with shortsighted vision and not looking bigger picture and not being proactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said: If we let Winters walk, many of the same people bitching about his salary would be bitching that we let a young starting offensive lineman walk not me. the time to sign young offensive linemen is BEFORE they hit free agency. somewhere along the way the Jets missed the buy low, sell high lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, CrazyCarl40 said: I have no problem bringing Winters back. I have a problem giving you much money to an average player coming off major surgery when he could have been resigned cheaper last offseason. Winters is no DeCastro. It's not that much though, especially when you factor in what he would have likely made in the open market. Addressing your other point, there was little incentive to resign Winters last year. He didn't make his jump until this season. Last year it seemed like he was just going to end up walking with little complaint from the team. This year he proved himself worthy of a contract. No he isn't DeCastro, but he is 25 year old guard who's play is ascending. DeCastro is currently playing on a 5 year 50 million dollar extension that had a 16 million dollar signing bonus that also would kill the Steelers if his play were to suddenly drop off of a cliff. If Winters continues his progress and pushes his play into that tier like we all hope, this contract is a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, LionelRichie said: not me. the time to sign young offensive linemen is BEFORE they hit free agency. somewhere along the way the Jets missed the buy low, sell high lesson. I believe that this IS before free agency. Now if he signs Wesley Johnson to a similar deal, THEN i'll be pissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, gEYno said: Per Jason's site, he'd be like the 5th highest RG. By the time the contract is over, he'll probably be in the middle of the pack. If you're cool with bringing him back, your talking about what, the difference of 2M per year out of 168M? The number isn't that serious. The team has no QB, LT, secondary or pass rush and they're prioritizing RG for 8 million. That's not a problem to you? Look at the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 If Winters had played at Notre Dame, this thread would have a very different tone to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, CrazyCarl40 said: The team has no QB, LT, secondary or pass rush and they're prioritizing RG for 8 million. That's not a problem to you? Look at the bigger picture. 8m is the full salary. It probably isnt even the cap hit. The cap hit is all that matters. I look at the Dallas Cowboys and the Oakland Raiders. They built their OLs first. That is what we need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mogglez said: It's not that much though, especially when you factor in what he would have likely made in the open market. Addressing your other point, there was little incentive to resign Winters last year. He didn't make his jump until this season. Last year it seemed like he was just going to end up walking with little complaint from the team. This year he proved himself worthy of a contract. No he isn't DeCastro, but he is 25 year old guard who's play is ascending. DeCastro is currently playing on a 5 year 50 million dollar extension that had a 16 million dollar signing bonus that also would kill the Steelers if his play were to suddenly drop off of a cliff. If Winters continues his progress and pushes his play into that tier like we all hope, this contract is a steal. Little incentive to lock up a guard who at the worst is a capable backup with starting experience? And you drafted him? You serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Larz said: Can we acknowledged that until this team has a winning tradition that the jets are going to have to overpay? This. The morbid fascination some have with salaries is self-deprecating SOJ behavior at it's most strange. I can name only two franchises in the entire league where there is anything close to a hometown discount, and just a year ago the Giants overpaid for Jenkins, Vernon, and Snacks, it's not some 'whoa is me' NYJ moment. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: The team has no QB, LT, secondary or pass rush and they're prioritizing RG for 8 million. That's not a problem to you? Look at the bigger picture. and a very average RG at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 We paid Alan Faneca 8m per 5 years in 2008. Now Brian Winters is not Alan Faneca by any stretch, but it shows the startpoint for inflation. That was 8 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Don't forget cost of living and state taxes. The jets have to cover a lot of objections to close a deal. This Aint green bay Wisconsin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Good signing! With Shell at RT and Winters at RG, the right side of the line is set with two good young players. Good start to the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: The team has no QB, LT, secondary or pass rush and they're prioritizing RG for 8 million. That's not a problem to you? Look at the bigger picture. And, if shipping Winters off resolved any of these issues, I'd gladly pay the postage. As will I regret it when we're unable to sign a young talented player at any of these positions because of the Winters contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, gEYno said: And, if shipping Winters off resolved any of these issues, I'd gladly pay the postage. As will I regret it when we're unable to sign a young talented player at any of these positions because of the Winters contract. Hopefully the draft will help with those key positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 55 minutes ago, LionelRichie said: Jets just signed a JAG coming off a major injury to Pro Bowler $. At the time he was injured, he was the NFLs leading run blocker. Hardly a jag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't think paying Winters totals equivalent of free agent dollars is the problem, it's the fact that the Jets have drafted so sh*tty for a decade that they are forced to pay guys like Winters because they don't have anyone else coming up behind him that could play for cheaper at a position where you can generally find guys on the cheap when you draft well. Not that it matters regardless. We don't have a quarterback, we aren't going to have a quarterback, and I have zero faith in this front office being able to find one given their track record going into their 3rd year. So sure, pay for a guard. Whoop dee doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Little incentive to lock up a guard who at the worst is a capable backup with starting experience? And you drafted him? You serious? He wasn't a capable guard last year, he was 4th round, inconsistent player, with a couple of years in the league, who still struggled with consistency in his pass protection. That's a guy you let walk and don't think twice about him leaving while trying to find his long term replacement, whether that be via FA or the draft. Maccagnan didn't draft him. Winters was drafted in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfine Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 LOL Jet Fans seem to think we need to have a Pro Bowler at every position making the league minimum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 40 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Of course you would. If Qvale starts and Dozier backs him up then you have 8 million dollars and zero need to draft another guard. You have no leg to stand on here. Plus if you let him go and he signs elsewhere for 8 million you're getting a draft pick back in a compensatory draft pick anyway. Even if that's a 4th in 2018, that's another guard right there and still saving 8 million. It's pretty simple. Did you watch those scrubs trying to block? Qvale sucks as much as a OL can suck. Until you watch Dozier. Winters was the NFLs leading run blocker at the time he went down. Stop making him into a POS. Between that and whining that he should have been extended when he actually was a jag it's wrong Find it revealing that I post he was the leading run blocker and you negative rep it. As if that's smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfine Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 This is a GREAT signing....if anything it keeps the continuity of the Oline and we don't have a QB so we will be running the ball more until we get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, tfine said: This is a GREAT signing....if anything it keeps the continuity of the Oline and we don't have a QB so we will be running the ball more until we get one. And this is another thing. Yeah if he signs elsewhere you might get another rookie to eventually take his place with the compensatory pick, but you also lose chemistry at a spot on the team that requires it to function properly. You aren't going to have a great line if you keep constantly plugging and playing/rotating different players at different positions with varying levels of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mogglez said: And this is another thing. Yeah if he signs elsewhere you might get another rookie to eventually take his place with the compensatory pick, but you also lose chemistry at spot that requires it to function properly. You aren't going to have a great line if you keep constantly plugging and playing/rotating different players at different positions with varying levels of experience. It's also a draft pick that could have been used somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: It's also a draft pick that could have been used somewhere else. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfine Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Jet Nut said: It's also a draft pick that could have been used somewhere else. This isnt a good draft for Olinemen anyway....its VERY deep at Dback and pass rusher and LB. All needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Remember when Brian Winters head butted an opponent and gave himself a concussion and got a personal foul penalty on top of missing games due to said concussion? Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: It's also a draft pick that could have been used somewhere else. 2 minutes ago, Mogglez said: Exactly. Lol. You guys. There's no pick now. You can't use a compensatory pick on someone else when you don't get awarded it. Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Good signing here by the Jets. No way to let him walk and hurt the team more. Looks like Mahgold is gone at the costs of doing business with Winters. I don't think the Jets will be big players in FA. The better move is sign the players who will be here 2/3 years from now. staying out of FA means more money for ST players who are desperately required. Also staying out of FA is a good way to make up for dead money. I have stated often that dead money is not free. Macc needs to get the financial house in order. I would look to trade Decker and Marshall. Get whatever picks you can. Decker may look good in KC red. Marshall in Philly green. This draft may produce a good RB to help Powell. Second contracts are not cheap as there will be very few thirds. Go Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfine Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Lol. You guys. There's no pick now. You can't use a compensatory pick on someone else when you don't get awarded it. Come on. I think he means we dont have to worry about drafting a guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Remember when Brian Winters head butted an opponent and gave himself a concussion and got a personal foul penalty on top of missing games due to said concussion? Good times. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Lol. You guys. There's no pick now. You can't use a compensatory pick on someone else when you don't get awarded it. Come on. What are you talking about? I was talking about the cost of replacing Winters if he walked by drafting a replacement. Try to keep up. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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