Brian Winters Receives a 4 Year Contract Extension

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Is he really the best we could do?

The O line obviously needed serious upgrade.  We just locked down one position at a definitive "not upgraded/average at best".

Lets hope we do better elsewhere on the line.

So much for the idea that clearing some $50m is going to allow him to upgrade at all the positions needed. His first move was a $6m/yr upgrade in pay with no upgrade in production. (Technically possible it's even a downgrade, depending on how well he can push/pull after his rotator cuff surgery).

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

And apparently YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE who believes and was clamoring for the Jets to have signed Mo and Winters an off season before they actually did.  Good GRIEF you are SO full of yourself with IMPECCABLE 20/20 hindsight.

He is paid to know better. It is obvious he should have been extended earlier if they liked him half this much. They didn't suddenly get a $30m stiffy for Brian Winters after his injury. 

Open your eyes. A smart GM doesn't first wait until a player's contract has expired to extend him. He does it when there's a year left on his old deal, unless he's literally trying to pay as much as possible for the exact same players.

He could take a dump on your car and you'd applaud it as a great move.

[Powpow]

7 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Come back in 3 years, if you're still around, when the Salary Cap has exponentially increased, as it has in the past and will continue to do so in the future, and see if Winters' salary is STILL GROSSLY overcompensating him when compared to the league average for starting Guards AT THAT future time.

It'll turn out to be a bargain if he continues to improve and WORST CASE scenario - if Mac and Davidson's record are ANY indication - Jets probably have an out after 2 years if Winters doesn't validate the salary. 

 

Time will tell, but it's a SMART move for beating the market to what will be an inflated bunch of FA contracts for QUALITY VETERAN OLine with such few available and a dearth of OLine talent in the '17 draft.   

 

 

Never left and aint goin nowhere. Been a Jets fan before you were  born sonnyboy. So if it was sooo SMART, which is wasn't, Mac would have signed him earlier last year as Sperm pointed out and saved the cap millions.  Fair market value for Winters is 4-6 mill TOPS.      

[AFJF]

Really surprised he didn't test FA. Got a lot less by signing that deal IMO.

[Gas2No99]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

He is paid to know better. It is obvious he should have been extended earlier if they liked him half this much. They didn't suddenly get a $30m stiffy for Brian Winters after his injury. 

Open your eyes. A smart GM doesn't first wait until a player's contract has expired to extend him. He does it when there's a year left on his old deal, unless he's literally trying to pay as much as possible for the exact same players.

He could take a dump on your car and you'd applaud it as a great move.

OH PLEASE!!!! 

 

Everyone and their MOTHER would have ripped on Mac for resigning Winters a year too soon with too much to prove. 

AFTER proving his surfeit capability as a starter AND ASSESSING how the FA market would most likely pan out: FEW QUALITY OLINE in the DRAFT. ECONOMICS: SUPPLY & DEMAND Dictated this signing and it's an ASTUTE one. There were no upgrades at a CHEAPER price available. If there are, DECLARE THEM NOW.

Your Dostoyevsky-esque diatribes are 20/20 hindsight and reek of nothing but surly bitterness from a sophist know-it-all who does NOTHING but bash EVERY roster move. you don't like Mac, we get it. Mac has made some good, some questionable, and some bad (Jarvis Jenkins signing) moves but he's NOT the dumpster fire that the majority of your novella posts are. 

 

In 2-3 years this contracts will be PEANUTS when compared to the league average for starting Guards in the NFL. SUCH Naiveness. 

[Gas2No99]

2 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Never left and aint goin nowhere. Been a Jets fan before you were  born sonnyboy. So if it was sooo SMART, which is wasn't, Mac would have signed him earlier last year as Sperm pointed out and saved the cap millions.  Fair market value for Winters is 4-6 mill TOPS.      

Don't patronize me Geriatric Park, and do your due diligence before you hitch your wagon to a blow-hard like Sperm who is nothing but a hindsight revisionist. Winters validated the contract DUE TO his 2016 season, would have been unwise to resign him prior to his contract year if he still had to prove himself to the new GM, which he apparently did. So you're full of $hit when stating the simpleton's argument of "would have resigned him last year." 

 Do the research and you'll see he got what the market would have paid and it'll be irrelevant in 2-3 years time. Stick to the video games since your football knowledge seems to have set in the horizon some time ago. 

 

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Really surprised he didn't test FA. Got a lot less by signing that deal IMO.

Agree. The dearth of OLine talent in FA and the '17 draft makes an adequate starter like Winters more attractive and create a premium for his capable services. AGAIN: THE SALARY CAP WILL GO UP SO it'll be CHEAPER in the long run for the position and most likely has an out for the Jets as ALL the contracts have had under Jaquie Davidson: The gal fears long-term commitment. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

OH PLEASE!!!! 

 

Everyone and their MOTHER would have ripped on Mac for resigning Winters a year too soon with too much to prove. 

AFTER proving his surfeit capability as a starter AND ASSESSING how the FA market would most likely pan out: FEW QUALITY OLINE in the DRAFT. ECONOMICS: SUPPLY & DEMAND Dictated this signing and it's an ASTUTE one. There were no upgrades at a CHEAPER price available. If there are, DECLARE THEM NOW.

Your Dostoyevsky-esque diatribes are 20/20 hindsight and reek of nothing but surly bitterness from a sophist know-it-all who does NOTHING but bash EVERY roster move. you don't like Mac, we get it. Mac has made some good, some questionable, and some bad (Jarvis Jenkins signing) moves but he's NOT the dumpster fire that the majority of your novella posts are. 

 

In 2-3 years this contracts will be PEANUTS when compared to the league average for starting Guards in the NFL. SUCH Naiveness. 

Not you. You wouldn't be criticizing it. I think that much is clear.

Plus, one makes moves to be smart, not to have message board posters jerk him off. If it's a smart move he'll be vindicated. A fool stays away from locking up a young player early, when he's far less money, out of this silly non-concern. 

And in 2-3 years it most definitely will not be "peanuts" no matter how many times you repeat this obviously false and silly idea. More likely he'll be carrying $10m+ cap figures, which will still very much be among the highest NFL cap charges for a RG. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Come back in 3 years, if you're still around, when the Salary Cap has exponentially increased, as it has in the past and will continue to do so in the future, and see if Winters' salary is STILL GROSSLY overcompensating him when compared to the league average for starting Guards AT THAT future time.

It'll turn out to be a bargain if he continues to improve and WORST CASE scenario - if Mac and Davidson's record are ANY indication - Jets probably have an out after 2 years if Winters doesn't validate the salary. 

 

Time will tell, but it's a SMART move for beating the market to what will be an inflated bunch of FA contracts for QUALITY VETERAN OLine with such few available and a dearth of OLine talent in the '17 draft.   

 

 

Exponential increase lol. The salary cap will suddenly parabola upwards to make this look ingenious. Do you know what an exponential increase means? It seems like you don't. The salary cap does not increase exponentially; it increases linearly. 

Also on a 4 year extension, we're supposed to wait 3 years for this to hopefully look better? "Just wait until the contract is 75% expired. That 4th and final year it'll look good, and Maccagnan shall be vindicated!" Lol.

Beating the market rofl. Maccagnan waited until Winters could leverage the market against him. In what way is that "smart" and "beating the market" as you're yelling at people? You should have emailed Maccagnan your enraged-font "supply and demand" post a year ago to tell him to beware of this, and signed it from Adam Smith. 

[Jet9]

Jets fans are the absolute worst. The worst, Jerry

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, Gas2No99 said:

OH PLEASE!!!! 

 

Everyone and their MOTHER would have ripped on Mac for resigning Winters a year too soon with too much to prove. 

AFTER proving his surfeit capability as a starter AND ASSESSING how the FA market would most likely pan out: FEW QUALITY OLINE in the DRAFT. ECONOMICS: SUPPLY & DEMAND Dictated this signing and it's an ASTUTE one. There were no upgrades at a CHEAPER price available. If there are, DECLARE THEM NOW.

Your Dostoyevsky-esque diatribes are 20/20 hindsight and reek of nothing but surly bitterness from a sophist know-it-all who does NOTHING but bash EVERY roster move. you don't like Mac, we get it. Mac has made some good, some questionable, and some bad (Jarvis Jenkins signing) moves but he's NOT the dumpster fire that the majority of your novella posts are. 

 

In 2-3 years this contracts will be PEANUTS when compared to the league average for starting Guards in the NFL. SUCH Naiveness. 

Everyone EXCEPT your MOTHER. She wouldn't have ripped Mac for resigning Winters early.   I mean she's your mother. 

[Powpow]

57 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Don't patronize me Geriatric Park, and do your due diligence before you hitch your wagon to a blow-hard like Sperm who is nothing but a hindsight revisionist. Winters validated the contract DUE TO his 2016 season, would have been unwise to resign him prior to his contract year if he still had to prove himself to the new GM, which he apparently did. So you're full of $hit when stating the simpleton's argument of "would have resigned him last year." 

 Do the research and you'll see he got what the market would have paid and it'll be irrelevant in 2-3 years time. Stick to the video games since your football knowledge seems to have set in the horizon some time ago.  

You're the one full of Gas.  Take a rolaids, get yourself some air freshener.  If you cant debate without making insults sonnyboy because others disagree with your precious opinion perhaps you should join a girl's scout forum.  Signing Winter EARLY would have been a SMART thing to do.  The same 2 year buyout could have applied if he didn't pan out or could have been extended and saved the cap tons of money.  Even now, with his 'improved season and progress, Winters is nothing more than an average guard who is now being paid  at an elite level. DUMB.   

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Jets fans are the absolute worst. The worst, Jerry

In fairness, so is the team, the coaching, the front office, and their boss. 

[Jet9]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness, so is the team, the coaching, the front office, and their boss. 

Fair enough.

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

Don't patronize me Geriatric Park, and do your due diligence before you hitch your wagon to a blow-hard like Sperm who is nothing but a hindsight revisionist. Winters validated the contract DUE TO his 2016 season, would have been unwise to resign him prior to his contract year if he still had to prove himself to the new GM, which he apparently did. So you're full of $hit when stating the simpleton's argument of "would have resigned him last year." 

 Do the research and you'll see he got what the market would have paid and it'll be irrelevant in 2-3 years time. Stick to the video games since your football knowledge seems to have set in the horizon some time ago. 

 

Agree. The dearth of OLine talent in FA and the '17 draft makes an adequate starter like Winters more attractive and create a premium for his capable services. AGAIN: THE SALARY CAP WILL GO UP SO it'll be CHEAPER in the long run for the position and most likely has an out for the Jets as ALL the contracts have had under Jaquie Davidson: The gal fears long-term commitment. 

I'm gonna' correct myself on the previous comment.  I was just waking up (UK time) when I saw this story and thought it said 4 yrs/$8 million.  Figured Wintes' agent hated his guts.

Best guards in the NFL make $10 million, so I thought Winters would get somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-8 million depending on the bidders.  Looks like the Jets locked him up now at what's neither a great or terrible price.

One less gap on the roster moving forward, LOTS of big cuts on the horizon.

[NYDreamer]

Its a smart move.  Our number one priority to build the offensive line now only requires us to look for a tackle.  Face it, if Winters was on any other team, he would have been a priority for Mac to bring in.  Knowing that he has grown as a Jet and has improved every year makes it an even better story and good signing.

[CrazyCarl40]

6 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Were you not the person who was saying that Winters should have been signed two years ago to this contract?  I'm confused. 

I said that he should have been signed last offseason to a much cheaper deal. Hope that clears it up. 

6 hours ago, NYJ37/12 said:

Carl, starting quality lineman are sparse right now league wide. Please take a look around and you will see how valuable guys like winters have become. I'm not saying he's worth the money, but supply and demand my friend. 

This team is probably 2 years away from seriously competing at best. This contract makes it harder for them to do that and by the time they could be ready to make a run, they'll be looking to cut this guy to make room for positions that actually matter. Big picture. 

26 minutes ago, NYDreamer said:

Its a smart move.  Our number one priority to build the offensive line now only requires us to look for a tackle.  Face it, if Winters was on any other team, he would have been a priority for Mac to bring in.  Knowing that he has grown as a Jet and has improved every year makes it an even better story and good signing.

And what if Shell regresses at RT? He looked okay the last few weeks because they slid help to his side constantly. The new offensive gameplan may not be able to do that. What if Winters injury makes him less effective? And as far as I can tell the Jets still need a left tackle and center. That's more than just "a tackle". 

[rangerous]

while the winters contract details are still being let out does this mean that the jets will do the same for wesley johnson?  as one poster said, it's all about cap management and paying winters that much isn't so bad if they launch mangold and draft a really good Lt in the draft.  and right now the qb position isn't costing hardly anything.  ultimately we'll see where this is all heading.

[ScarletKnight89]

I don't see how people can't like this move. It's pretty fair market value for a young player whose gotten continuously better for us. When he first played in 2013 he was awful, he's since slowly turned himself into a very solid starting caliber guard with growing room to get better. No problem here. This is exactly the type of move we should be making. Winters and Carpenter solidify the guard position for us.

If we do adjust Mangold's contract and bring him back we've solidified the inside of our line going forward and gives us this offseason to focus on addressing the tackle position. We could give Shell the RT job and try and find a LT in the draft or FA.

[LIJetsFan]

Mac has made far more egregious moves in the past.  This one seems like a bit of an over payment on the face of it especially when you consider: 1.Winters is coming of surgically repaired rotator cuff and 2. he has so far been average at best in pass protection.

OTOH when you take into consideration: 1. the RG supply and demand situation and 2. the need to establish a solid locker room culture (reward in house) this move must be applauded.

BTW, hindsight is 20/20 so stfu  Mac is still learning the GM trade.    

[jamesr]

11 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Good points except for the fact that we have spent a ton on Revis. Once he's off the books we can sign 3 or 4 guards to big money contracts...

And any one of them could probably play better at CB than Revis!  

[JustInFudge]

I dont really have a problem with this.  He's a good young player that we drafted and developed.  I think there is something to be said about taking care of your own.  People get all up in arms about the money and the cap but if Mac has half a brain, you can always work the cap.  And really, if they can find a Tackle in the draft and get something out of Shell moving forward, it's not the worst allocation of money.  If you can get the Tackle's on the cheap, investing in your Guards doesnt look at bad in the long run.

 

[faba]

Best solution to have some stability in the offensive line-try to rework Mangold and find tackle help through draft free agent

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont really have a problem with this.  He's a good young player that we drafted and developed.  I think there is something to be said about taking care of your own.  People get all up in arms about the money and the cap but if Mac has half a brain, you can always work the cap.  And really, if they can find a Tackle in the draft and get something out of Shell moving forward, it's not the worst allocation of money.  If you can get the Tackle's on the cheap, investing in your Guards doesnt look at bad in the long run.

 

It's not that it's the end of the world. Of course it isn't, and I'm not even suggesting that.

What's tremendously bothersome is this was an easy one to wrap up for millions less per year. If he never wanted Winters back at all, then it would have been the right move to let his contract fully run out before awarding a new one. But if he liked the player it made little to no sense to wait this long to finalize a deal.

At some point there will be a limit that the team hits (without spending into 8 figures on the following years' caps). When that point comes, and it will the way these two work, go take your pick of any other player on the roster and imagine another player $4-5m/year better. Think of the next $6m Buster Skrine type, the next time our season ends too early, and imagine a $10-11m CB in his place with a net cost of zero per year. That's what it should have been.

One player, yeah it's no big deal. That they keep unnecessarily paying premiums, for the same players they could have obviously had for less, and eventually you're talking about 1-2 serious downgrades from stud-level FAs on the roster. 

[Mike135]

Only 2/3s of what Fitz made last year.  If Winters even remotely contributes to one win this year, Macc has already improved greatly at his job.

[LIJetsFan]

Damn it!  You had to remind me of Fitz!

[sourceworx]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I said that he should have been signed last offseason to a much cheaper deal. Hope that clears it up. 

While at face value that sounds like a wonderful idea, what exactly makes you think Winters (or any player on their rookie deal for that matter) would be willing to sign an extension a year early? Any player worth a damn would want to have that contract year in hopes of playing a very high level to increase their value. Not to mention their agents surely would advise them against signing prior to that contract year. 

You make it sound so easy: Throw a cheap contract under a player's nose, and he'll sign it no questions asked. 

Frankly I'm surprised he signed before testing the market. He probably could have done better.

[Mike135]

5 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Damn it!  You had to remind me of Fitz!

Ha sorry.  I still have the occasional night-terror of $hitz and it sticks with me.

My grief counselor says I'm getting better though.

[The Crusher]

I don't like it but I'm going to wait to see what the market brings similar players before I start insulting people in this thread. I suggest those of you who are already insulting one another for disagreeing to stop now. Jets suck, this year sucked, next year will probably suck and in the mean time let's discuss it without insulting one another. Thanks. Good looking out. 

[smaxor5]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He is paid to know better. It is obvious he should have been extended earlier if they liked him half this much. They didn't suddenly get a $30m stiffy for Brian Winters after his injury. 

Open your eyes. A smart GM doesn't first wait until a player's contract has expired to extend him. He does it when there's a year left on his old deal, unless he's literally trying to pay as much as possible for the exact same players.

He could take a dump on your car and you'd applaud it as a great move.

What if a guy takes 3 years to develop which is exactly what Winters did?  You're telling me with a straight face you wouldn't ridicule the sh*t out of that extension before this year started?  That's a load of sh*t.

[CrazyCarl40]

17 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Only 2/3s of what Fitz made last year.  If Winters even remotely contributes to one win this year, Macc has already improved greatly at his job.

Fitz made 7 million last season. Try again. 

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

While at face value that sounds like a wonderful idea, what exactly makes you think Winters (or any player on their rookie deal for that matter) would be willing to sign an extension a year early? Any player worth a damn would want to have that contract year in hopes of playing a very high level to increase their value. Not to mention their agents surely would advise them against signing prior to that contract year. 

You make it sound so easy: Throw a cheap contract under a player's nose, and he'll sign it no questions asked. 

Frankly I'm surprised he signed before testing the market. He probably could have done better.

The player Winters was would probably take a second contract considering it had looked as if he might not get one at the time. And maybe his agent tells him not to sign it maybe he doesn't. You're talking in a lot of hypotheticals. You can also put incentives in that deal where if he makes a certain number of starts or if he makes a pro bowl, etc. 

4 minutes ago, smaxor5 said:

What if a guy takes 3 years to develop which is exactly what Winters did?  You're telling me with a straight face you wouldn't ridicule the sh*t out of that extension before this year started?  That's a load of sh*t.

I wouldn't ridicule signing a young player capable of getting better to a low money contract with lots of incentives. No one would. 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Jets suck, this year sucked, next year will probably suck ...

Blasphemy.

1. Pick up a stud LT in free agency.  
2. Draft Fournette 
3. Trim the overpaid vets (doesn't include Marshall)

We'll have a good oline, insane RB and one of the top WR corps.  An extremely friendly environment for any QB.

The dline and LBs will be improved, if only because of removing talent.  Sadly it seems Sheldon is the odd man out, but at least it'll stop them from playing guys out of position.

Granted the secondary is a concern, but that's what the rest of the draft and Free agency is for.

Average QB play and we're a playoff team.

[JustInFudge]

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's not that it's the end of the world. Of course it isn't, and I'm not even suggesting that.

What's tremendously bothersome is this was an easy one to wrap up for millions less per year. If he never wanted Winters back at all, then it would have been the right move to let his contract fully run out before awarding a new one. But if he liked the player it made little to no sense to wait this long to finalize a deal.

At some point there will be a limit that the team hits (without spending into 8 figures on the following years' caps). When that point comes, and it will the way these two work, go take your pick of any other player on the roster and imagine another player $4-5m/year better. Think of the next $6m Buster Skrine type, the next time our season ends too early, and imagine a $10-11m CB in his place with a net cost of zero per year. That's what it should have been.

One player, yeah it's no big deal. That they keep unnecessarily paying premiums, for the same players they could have obviously had for less, and eventually you're talking about 1-2 serious downgrades from stud-level FAs on the roster. 

I'm not going to pretend like I know what Brian Winters value would be on the open market.  You're pretty good at this cap stuff, so I'll take your word we could have got him for millions less.  

I think Mac can do a lot of cleaning up this offseason which should open up a lot of cash.  We'll see.  I'm not particular bent out of shape over this.  I think it's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things as long as Mac can correct some of his mistakes.

[smaxor5]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fitz made 7 million last season. Try again. 

The player Winters was would probably take a second contract considering it had looked as if he might not get one at the time. And maybe his agent tells him not to sign it maybe he doesn't. You're talking in a lot of hypotheticals. You can also put incentives in that deal where if he makes a certain number of starts or if he makes a pro bowl, etc. 

I wouldn't ridicule signing a young player capable of getting better to a low money contract with lots of incentives. No one would. 

So we're just gonna pretend that no one on this board hated Brian Winters?  That's some magical revisionist history.  Hell I hated Brian Winters before this year started!

[BigRy56]

Maccagnan made the right move here, 100%. With the way Shell played at RT, the OL could be in great shape if we can find a LT whether it's in the draft or with the millions we'll have freed up in free agency.

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fitz made 7 million last season. Try again.