CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, smaxor5 said: So we're just gonna pretend that no one on this board hated Brian Winters? That's some magical revisionist history. Hell I hated Brian Winters before this year started! Who cares if the board hated Brian Winters? If the GM is basing his decisions on what we think, we're in worse shape than we thought. He should base it on feedback from coaches and game tape. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Fitz made 7 million last season. Try again. are you sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: How do you BEGIN to seriously upgrade an OLine? Does cohesion, continuity, veteran leadership factor in at all when people speak of the elite OLines around the league? You begin by replacing underperforming assets with assets you believe will perform better. Yes, continuity is good, but continuing with underperforming assets (Bowles for example) is nothing to brag about simply because it's "continuity". 9 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: Because The Winters re-signing is the beginning of this overhaul and a key aspect to achieve what you and so many others are crying for. I'm open to that possibility, but I don't recall the consensus here being he was an above-average O-lineman. Quite the contrary, he seems to have been in rather low regard here amongst most fans. Hence why I asked, "is he the best we can do?" 9 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: Winters is young and has shown improvement. Assuming, and the FO SHOULD do it, Mangold is cut, Winters would be the Elder and LONGEST Tenured OLine starter for the Jets. I would not presume that Mangold will be cut. His deal renge'd perhaps. But I remain hopeful Mangold will be back, as he is by far and without question the best O-lineman we have. He's likely no longer elite, but he's still well above average by my eyeball test. 9 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: I balked at the initial number as well for a CONVERTED OT from Kent St. who was a NIGHTMARE starting as a rookie in 2013. Well, it's 2017 and in those four years he's shown to yield AT LEAST 1 holding penalty or Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty per game, but he also brings a mean streak and attitude, that I believe, is necessary for an OLine to have. He's NOT the BEST RG and his numbers are commensurate of an ascending young player who is SERVICEABLE at his position and who's salary will moreso than not, will be mid-range within 2-3 years as the salary cap continue to rise and force higher, and sometimes unmerited, salaries for players. The salary seems high for "serviceable" with "might get better" upside. But if he's the best available in FA, and the salary is average for the position, and he was better than the other bad players last year on our O-line, then the move makes sense I suppose. Lets hope he omproves and does not regress, because if he regresses he's going to be pretty damn bad frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaxor5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, CrazyCarl40 said: Who cares if the board hated Brian Winters? If the GM is basing his decisions on what we think, we're in worse shape than we thought. He should base it on feedback from coaches and game tape. Period. Jesus, that's not what I'm saying, don't Trump me. You claimed that no one would ridicule extending a "young player". I called bullsh*t, you changed the subject to the GM listening to the fans for some reason. Oh and btw, you have no ******* idea what the coaches are telling Macc so stop just assuming that Macc ignored praises from them...you don't know sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike135 said: Blasphemy. Pick up a stud LT in free agency. Draft Fournette Trim the overpaid vets (doesn't include Marshall) We'll have a good oline, insane RB and one of the top WR corps. An extremely friendly environment for any QB. The dline and LBs will be improved, if only because of removing talent. Sadly it seems Sheldon is the odd man out, but at least it'll stop them from playing guys out of position. Granted the secondary is a concern, but that's what the rest of the draft and Free agency is for. Average QB play and we're a playoff team. The pathway to a couple 8-8 seasons. No!! Trade back to collect picks if possible. If not get the left tackle and possibly the center of the future. Get a jag QB who can't play and call him a mentor. Let Petty and Hack humiliate themselves all season. If one of them surprises us then bingo we have a young back up going forward. Cut old crappy guys, cut or trade Sheldon. With Bowles coaching we win between 2-3 games. Using the antidotal formula of him only winning about half the games he won the previous year. Do a Skins RG III type deal for Sam "I am" Donarld. Profit!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: are you sure about that? Yes. 7 million in 2016 and 5 million in 2017 as far as cap charges. While he probably got paid all 12 million in 2016, that's not how the contract was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, The Crusher said: Get a jag QB who can't play and call him a mentor. Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, smaxor5 said: Jesus, that's not what I'm saying, don't Trump me. You claimed that no one would ridicule extending a "young player". I called bullsh*t, you changed the subject to the GM listening to the fans for some reason. Oh and btw, you have no ******* idea what the coaches are telling Macc so stop just assuming that Macc ignored praises from them...you don't know sh*t. It's way too early in the morning to be this angry because you're wrong. No reason to be less than civil. I didn't change the course of the conversation, you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaxor5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said: It's way too early in the morning to be this angry because you're wrong. No reason to be less than civil. I didn't change the course of the conversation, you did. You're resorting to "no YOU'RE wrong, YOU changed the conversation" with zero points to back it up. Are you Donald Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Warfish said: Absolutely not. Fine. Keep Fitz for vet minimum, call him a mentor and never let him play. Im not sure how to get there but I know I want to draft Sam Darnold. Feel free to chose how we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, smaxor5 said: So we're just gonna pretend that no one on this board hated Brian Winters? That's some magical revisionist history. Hell I hated Brian Winters before this year started! Happy to admit when I'm wrong. I thought the guy might get beat out by Dozier or Watts and didn't look very good during the PS. I'm sure at one point I thought he might not make the roster. I know most weren't very big fans of his, but not hearing much of that now that he's an improved player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Mike135 said: Ha sorry. I still have the occasional night-terror of $hitz and it sticks with me. My grief counselor says I'm getting better though. You need a better counselor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Crusher said: The pathway to a couple 8-8 seasons. No!! Trade back to collect picks if possible. If not get the left tackle and possibly the center of the future. Get a jag QB who can't play and call him a mentor. Let Petty and Hack humiliate themselves all season. If one of them surprises us then bingo we have a young back up going forward. Cut old crappy guys, cut or trade Sheldon. With Bowles coaching we win between 2-3 games. Using the antidotal formula of him only winning about half the games he won the previous year. Do a Skins RG III type deal for Sam "I am" Donarld. Profit!!!! Doesn't sound like we're that far apart, but maybe I think this team is in better shape than you do as it currently sits. I'm not saying to go out and sign big name, flashy FAs. Just a LT. Then draft a potential once in a decade RB. Use the rest of the draft and free agency to "rebuild". With that team, any one of our young QBs (including Geno) could do very well. To make this team a loser, Macc would have to try to make them lose. Aka, re-sign Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, smaxor5 said: You're resorting to "no YOU'RE wrong, YOU changed the conversation" with zero points to back it up. Are you Donald Trump? Have you ever posted here before? No politics. This thread has been a royal pain the ass with reported post after reported post. I will lock it if need be. But I'm holding out hope that people can calm down and discuss this like semi rational adults. So everyone: Calm the hell down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, The Crusher said: I don't like it but I'm going to wait to see what the market brings similar players before I start insulting people in this thread. I suggest those of you who are already insulting one another for disagreeing to stop now. Jets suck, this year sucked, next year will probably suck and in the mean time let's discuss it without insulting one another. Thanks. Good looking out. I'm not reading the thread, because it's likely a bunch of people whining that $8m / year is "too much" and then other folks saying "you're stupid". Meanwhile, the "too much" crowd is also bitching that the team has no good players, and that the GM is doing a lousy job, and that we can't draft... but they don't want us to pay a guard we drafted and developed to stay. I'm sure the thread makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, The Crusher said: Have you ever posted here before? No politics. This thread has been a royal pain the ass with reported post after reported post. I will lock it if need be. But I'm holding out hope that people can calm down and discuss this like semi rational adults. So everyone: Calm the hell down! People are reporting posts in a thread about resigning a guard? JN isn't the JN it used to be. Re-open JI, send the derps back to where they came from!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaxor5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, AFJF said: Happy to admit when I'm wrong. I thought the guy might get beat out by Dozier or Watts and didn't look very good during the PS. I'm sure at one point I thought he might not make the roster. I know most weren't very big fans of his, but not hearing much of that now that he's an improved player. Me too man, i'm thrilled to be wrong about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Integrity28 said: People are reporting posts in a thread about resigning a guard? JN isn't the JN it used to be. Re-open JI, send the derps back to where they came from!!!! Amazing isn't it? Next we'll need a "safe space" forum when no one is allowed to reply directly to another poster, only on-topic, non-specific replies of a general nature will be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaxor5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Have you ever posted here before? No politics. This thread has been a royal pain the ass with reported post after reported post. I will lock it if need be. But I'm holding out hope that people can calm down and discuss this like semi rational adults. So everyone: Calm the hell down! Cause that's exactly how you diffuse tension... I apologize all the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike135 said: Doesn't sound like we're that far apart, but maybe I think this team is in better shape than you do as it currently sits. I'm not saying to go out and sign big name, flashy FAs. Just a LT. Then draft a potential once in a decade RB. Use the rest of the draft and free agency to "rebuild". With that team, any one of our young QBs (including Geno) could do very well. To make this team a loser, Macc would have to try to make them lose. Aka, re-sign Fitz. We are certainly close. If it seems like I think we are farther away, then I fell into the trap of feeling like every player sucks because the team played terrible. With the lack of effort and the resulting record I most certainly have . I really think retaining Todd Bowles was the one thing that makes it a real possibility we could suck enough next year to get Sam. Just don't want to see the Jets have a coach, coach to keep his job as usual, rather than the long term good of the team. I may come off silly and stupid but I would really like to have us finally get a high end young QB that honestly has more of a chance to be a franchise guy for 10-15 years rather than continue the revolving door of mediocrity we have had at the position. After watching the Rose Bowl I really think Sam Darnold is that kid. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. It may be irrational but I just would like us to be the ones to land the QB future of the league. We are kinda due. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRy56 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 How many offensive linemen have we let go/refused to sign, only to watch them go on and find success with another team while we try to replace them? Slauson - had to replace him with Carpenter Austin Howard - had to replace him with Giacomini/everybody else that has been at the RT revolving door since then That's 2 right off the top of my head. We let those guys go and had to then allocate extra time/resources to replace them while they are quality offensive linemen for other teams. Eventually, you need to start locking down home-grown talent instead of chasing your tail over and over again. Maccagnan made the right move locking down Winters (who's 25 and gets better every year) to a reasonable contract so we can focus on filling the other holes on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, smaxor5 said: Cause that's exactly how you diffuse tension... I apologize all the same though. Oh so I can't be a little frustrated that people can't remember the basic rules of the site? I'm not allowed to get annoyed that somebody is crying about another poster in the reports every time I log in? 30 reports in 3 days! Truly amazing. I apologize as well. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 hours ago, shuler82 said: I don't know. Home grown talent. 25 years old. Ascending play. Market value contract. Can someone remind me why people are complaining again? Because we are Jets fans, you know. It's what we do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I'm not reading the thread, because it's likely a bunch of people whining that $8m / year is "too much" and then other folks saying "you're stupid". Meanwhile, the "too much" crowd is also bitching that the team has no good players, and that the GM is doing a lousy job, and that we can't draft... but they don't want us to pay a guard we drafted and developed to stay. I'm sure the thread makes a lot of sense. You actually summarized it without readin it. You truly are the evolved future of this kind planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Yes. 7 million in 2016 and 5 million in 2017 as far as cap charges. While he probably got paid all 12 million in 2016, that's not how the contract was written. But he was paid 12 mil. Thats the only way he was signing what is essentially a one year deal. That is the deal you should be complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Crusher said: You actually summarized it without readin it. You truly are the evolved future of this kind planet. He thinks he's Dr Zaeus but he is really Binky the chimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Here's my take. Yes, it was a need. Yes, he is young and improving. No, there were not many great option in FA. Having said that, this is a position- particularly on the right side- that can be pretty easily addressed via the draft (or even temporarily via some of the depth). If we were going to invest on the o-line it needed to be at LT or RT or C (if Mangold gets cut) even LG (although that position is solidified by Carpenter) RG is probably the least critical position on the O-line. So unless I'm missing something (and I could be) or Macc thinks Winters has a much higher ceiling (which I doubt) or Macc thinks he got a discount (which it does not appear like he did), than this was not a good signing- IMHO. The only way this looks like a solid deal is the fact that the Jets need to fix the O-line -period- so this is a move in that direction AND there are not many options in FA for good young O-linemen (so maybe Macc re-signs Winters and W.Johnson, cuts Clady and goes early an OT in the draft). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 This is a terrible contract, no two ways about it. I wouldn't have cared so much that we're paying Brian Winters top 5 guard money if we had gotten something in return, meaning more years on the contract. But as it stands right now, Winters will be hitting free agency again at 29 years old and god knows he'll be looking for one final payday before head-butting his way into retirement. The Jets should have gotten an extra year, at least, on the deal if they were willing to pay him $8 million/year. Brian Winters is good, but we're paying him like he's a superstar at his position, which is a common theme with this team. If they were so hell bent on paying him top 5 guard money, they might as well have used the franchise tag on him. For a guy who's already tore his ACL, maybe this would have motivated him to sign a 5 or 6 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 hours ago, greenwave81 said: Hell, FL has NO state income tax, as does TN. What's the state income tax in NJ? enough to grocery shop for Chris Christie for the next 50 years. And that's a lot of food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Good, now don't wait to extend Enunwa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, The Crusher said: We are certainly close. If it seems like I think we are farther away, then I fell into the trap of feeling like every player sucks because the team played terrible. With the lack of effort and the resulting record I most certainly have Can't blame ya. This team played like $hit and gave up. I just think it was an avalanche though, starting at one very particular point (a certain player who will remain nameless) early in the season and continued to make the team worse as the season progressed. No way is this team that bad. 31 minutes ago, The Crusher said: . I really think retaining Todd Bowles was the one thing that makes it a real possibility we could suck enough next year to get Sam. Just don't want to see the Jets have a coach, coach to keep his job as usual, rather than the long term good of the team. Sure. While I'm pretty sure the team isn't as bad as last season would suggest, I'm not that sure about Bowles. I'm just hoping he doesn't suck. 31 minutes ago, The Crusher said: I may come off silly and stupid but I would really like to have us finally get a high end young QB that honestly has more of a chance to be a franchise guy for 10-15 years rather than continue the revolving door of mediocrity we have had at the position. After watching the Rose Bowl I really think Sam Darnold is that kid. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. It may be irrational but I just would like us to be the ones to land the QB future of the league. We are kinda due. No? I'd love that, but really don't see how we can finish next season as the NFL's worst team to get the #1 pick unless this team purposely tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 53 minutes ago, Mike135 said: Blasphemy. Pick up a stud LT in free agency. Draft Fournette Trim the overpaid vets (doesn't include Marshall) We'll have a good oline, insane RB and one of the top WR corps. An extremely friendly environment for any QB. The dline and LBs will be improved, if only because of removing talent. Sadly it seems Sheldon is the odd man out, but at least it'll stop them from playing guys out of position. Granted the secondary is a concern, but that's what the rest of the draft and Free agency is for. Average QB play and we're a playoff team. my god Mike, don't you know good posts and optimism are not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Improve this offensive line . RT - B Shell RT - B Winters C - ? LG - J Carpenter LT - ? Trade down from 6 and draft Ryan Ramczyk and put him at LT for the next few years . Resign W Johnson and let him and D Dozier battle for the Center and backup OG position . Use a 4th round pick to add another OT and another OC/OG and continue to build the OL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, Beerfish said: He thinks he's Dr Zaeus but he is really Binky the chimp. Simply a matter of a hundred years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Mike135 said: Can't blame ya. This team played like $hit and gave up. I just think it was an avalanche though, starting at one very particular point (a certain player who will remain nameless) early in the season and continued to make the team worse as the season progressed. No way is this team that bad. Sure. While I'm pretty sure the team isn't as bad as last season would suggest, I'm not that sure about Bowles. I'm just hoping he doesn't suck. I'd love that, but really don't see how we can finish next season as the NFL's worst team to get the #1 pick unless this team purposely tanks. Keeping Todd Bowles as the head coach in my opinion is the closest thing a franchise can do to purposefully tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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