We need the Jets to suck this year.

[Skeptable]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Another way to look at it is that no QB taken #1 overall since 1998, has won a super bowl for the team he was drafted by. 

Manning won a superbowl with Indy and His brother was basically drafted by the Giants... they traded picks before the draft was over.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

Manning won a superbowl with Indy and His brother was basically drafted by the Giants... they traded picks before the draft was over.

what he said was correct and Eli won 2 w/ NYG but both were led by their D.

[Skeptable]

Just now, nyjunc said:

what he said was correct and Eli won 2 w/ NYG but both were led by their D.

Eli won both of those Superbowls.... and got MVPs

[Scoop24]

5 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Darnold is not the same every year... This is 1983 draft coming up... this is Elway

They Said Hackenberg was the next Luck after his freshman year  .. be careful with these comparisons 

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

what he said was correct and Eli won 2 w/ NYG but both were led by their D.

Technically... yes he is correct... but saying Eli was drafted by San Diego is a bit of a farse since he was only there for a couple hours... and Eli's Defense got him to the Superbowl, but Eli won them the superbowl, Twice.... without Eli they lose.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Manning won a superbowl with Indy and His brother was basically drafted by the Giants... they traded picks before the draft was over.

Who cares when they traded?  Did the Giants have to tank for Eli?  Nope, they picked 4th.  Did the Broncos have to tank for Elway?  Nope, but the Jets HAVE to tank.  Or else.  There is no other option.  All other thoughts are stupid and wrong!  

[Skeptable]

Just now, Scoop24 said:

They Said Hackenberg was the next Luck after his freshman year  .. be careful with these comparisons 

Hackenberg still has a chance... he is young and hasn't had an off-season to work on his footwork... to give up on him so soon is a mistake... but he, even at best did not look near as talented as Darnold... All it takes is one look at how he commanded that team.

[Skeptable]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Who cares when they traded?  Did the Giants have to tank for Eli?  Nope, they picked 4th.  Did the Broncos have to tank for Elway?  Nope, but the Jets HAVE to tank.  Or else.  There is no other option.  All other thoughts are stupid and wrong!  

Giants picked fourth and thats not tanking... thats the 4th worst record... sure they traded from fourth to 1st because Eli said he would never play or sign in san diego... he held them ransom ... and I want a franchise QB yes... if it takes a whole year of losing to get him... why not... Sure there are other options but losing is the easiest.

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

We had the number 1 pick in 97 as well but the Tuna wouldn't commit to take Peyton if he came out so he didn't.. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, Savage69 said:

We had the number 1 pick in 97 as well but the Tuna would commit to take Peyton if he came out so he didn't.. 

Exactly!! Screwed us

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Eli won both of those Superbowls.... and got MVPs

didn't deserve either MVP.  they won both with defense, held all time great Os to 14 and 17 points- that's why they won

7 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Technically... yes he is correct... but saying Eli was drafted by San Diego is a bit of a farse since he was only there for a couple hours... and Eli's Defense got him to the Superbowl, but Eli won them the superbowl, Twice.... without Eli they lose.

depends who they had w/o eli.  if it was Kurt Warner like they had in '04 they win more reg season games and still win SB, if it was Rivers they probably don't make SB.

[jdeacon]

12 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Darnold is not the same every year... This is 1983 draft coming up... this is Elway

Hey I like Darnold as much as the next guy, how he feels pressure in the pocket and knows how to extend the play is extremely disreable. The kid also has a rocket for an arm and throws a beautiful spiral, seems to make the right reads and seems to have his head screwed on. He is still extremely young though and I would like to see another year of college tape on him before announcing him the must have guy of next years draft. If he repeats, or has a better performance than this year I am all for trading the farm for him if Hack and Petty do not work out. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Keep rooting for 8-8, "Dominator".

He's changing his name to "Denominator". 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

What if i say please?

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I dont think there is any correlation to high picks = long term success.  If anything, history probably says opposite.

As for the Jets needing to suck.  I'd be shocked if they win 3 games next year.

Thats the spirit!!!

[Skeptable]

Just now, nyjunc said:

didn't deserve either MVP.  they won both with defense, held all time great Os to 14 and 17 points- that's why they won

depends who they had w/o eli.  if it was Kurt Warner like they had in '04 they win more reg season games and still win SB, if it was Rivers they probably don't make SB.

Eli had 2 game winning td drives... they were well deserved... and he will be in the Hall of Fame

[j4jets]

What people continue to forget is, we have Bowles. We don't need to wish to tank. We will try our best and still be the worst. Lets Bowles help us get that first overall pick. Thats what he's worth. 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I dont think there is any correlation to high picks = long term success.  If anything, history probably says opposite.

As for the Jets needing to suck.  I'd be shocked if they win 3 games next year.

No maybe not... but I have watched this team for 40 years never win anything and Not have a good QB... at some point you have to change the formula.

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, j4jets said:

What people continue to forget is, we have Bowles. We don't need to wish to tank. We will try our best and still be the worst. Lets Bowles help us get that first overall pick. Thats what he's worth. 

 

Unfortunately I think that they are going to try to formulate some free agency plan to compete again and end up 5-11 or 6-10 again next year.

 

[nyjbuddy]

Breakdown by pick of super bowl winning QBs since the 1978 Super Bowl.  Draft data from 1970-2015.

Everyone loves a Kurt Warner or Russell Wilson story because they are uncommon and they have a "anything could happen" feel to them.  It makes for a good story if you can find that non first round gem that can win you a super bowl. 

Overall Pick	Count	Number of players	Chances
1	6	21	28.6%
2-5	2	23	8.7%
6-10	0	13	0.0%
11-15	1	12	8.3%
16-20	2	8	25.0%
21-25	1	12	8.3%
26-32	1	10	10.0%
33-64	2	57	3.5%
65-92	2	57	3.5%
93-128	1	57	1.8%
128+	4	254	1.6%

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Giants picked fourth and thats not tanking... thats the 4th worst record... sure they traded from fourth to 1st because Eli said he would never play or sign in san diego... he held them ransom ... and I want a franchise QB yes... if it takes a whole year of losing to get him... why not... Sure there are other options but losing is the easiest.

You repped yourself for this response to a fact?  That is seriously poor form.  The Giants got Eli without the worst overall record.  The Broncos got Elway without the worst overall record.  The Browns got Tim Couch with the worst record.  The Raiders got JaMarcus Russell with the worst record.  These are facts, but you plot out a method for obtaining a roster, coaching staff and front office that will not try to win and then you and Darnold can try to figure out what to do going forward.  Of course, if he doesn't like the situation he can hold you up and demand to be traded or simply stay in school another year.  Then what?  Tank again?

[j4jets]

2 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Breakdown by pick of super bowl winning QBs since the 1978 Super Bowl.  Draft data from 1970-2015.

Everyone loves a Kurt Warner or Russell Wilson story because they are uncommon and they have a "anything could happen" feel to them.  It makes for a good story if you can find that non first round gem that can win you a super bowl. 

Overall Pick	Count	Number of players	Chances
1	6	21	28.6%
2-5	2	23	8.7%
6-10	0	13	0.0%
11-15	1	12	8.3%
16-20	2	8	25.0%
21-25	1	12	8.3%
26-32	1	10	10.0%
33-64	2	57	3.5%
65-92	2	57	3.5%
93-128	1	57	1.8%
128+	4	254	1.6%

So you're saying theres more than a 1/3rd of a chance to win the SB if we draft a QB in the first 5 picks? Almost 50 years and no SB appearance, let along a victory, I think I like the odds. 

[Skeptable]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You repped yourself for this response to a fact?  That is seriously poor form.  The Giants got Eli without the worst overall record.  The Broncos got Elway without the worst overall record.  The Browns got Tim Couch with the worst record.  The Raiders got JaMarcus Russell with the worst record.  These are facts, but you plot out a method for obtaining a roster, coaching staff and front office that will not try to win and then you and Darnold can try to figure out what to do going forward.  Of course, if he doesn't like the situation he can hold you up and demand to be traded or simply stay in school another year.  Then what?  Tank again?

Was Eli drafted #1 overall?? Period Stop...  Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, Smith, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Manning, Bledsoe, George, Aikman, Testaverde, Elway, Bartkowski, Plunkett, Bradshaw,.... Since 1970 - 21 QBs drafted #1 overall... 5 are complete disasters... the rest... played in the NFL a LONG time... I will take those odds anyday...

[nyjunc]

22 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Eli had 2 game winning td drives... they were well deserved... and he will be in the Hall of Fame

he's nowhere near a Hall of famer.  he has 1-2 HOF caliber seasons, never made an all pro team, only made a PB team 2x legitimately(w/o being 7th injury replacement) and he derailed a potential SB season this year despite having the best WR in the league to throw to.

he played well in both SB runs but the D is why they got to and won both SBs and he didn't deserve either SB MVP.  his best quality is durability but that alone doesn't get you to the Hall.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Was Eli drafted #1 overall?? Period Stop...  Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, Smith, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, Manning, Bledsoe, George, Aikman, Testaverde, Elway, Bartkowski, Plunkett, Bradshaw,.... Since 1970 - 21 QBs drafted #1 overall... 5 are complete disasters... the rest... played in the NFL a LONG time... I will take those odds anyday...

...but you still don't get it.  You don't need the worst record to get the first QB.  Eli was drafted #1 by the Chargers.  The Giants traded for him.  Why can't we do the same?  

As for the names you list, George played a long time in the NFL and he was a disaster.  Plunkett was kind of a disaster for the Patriots, as Testicles certainly was for the Bucs.  Check how those guys did with the teams that drafted them vs. otherwise.      

[Skeptable]

Just now, nyjunc said:

he's nowhere near a Hall of famer.  he has 1-2 HOF caliber seasons, never made an all pro team, only made a PB team 2x legitimately(w/o being 7th injury replacement) and he derailed a potential SB season this year despite having the best WR in the league to throw to.

he played well in both SB runs but the D is why they got to and won both SBs and he didn't deserve either SB MVP.  his best quality is durability but that alone doesn't get you to the Hall.

You or I don't make that decision, but if I was a betting man I would put all my money on Eli going to the Hall of Fame.

[Skeptable]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

...but you still don't get it.  You don't need the worst record to get the first QB.  Eli was drafted #1 by the Chargers.  The Giants traded for him.  Why can't we do the same?  

As for the names you list, George played a long time in the NFL and he was a disaster.  Plunkett was kind of a disaster for the Patriots, as Testicles certainly was for the Bucs.  Check how those guys did with the teams that drafted them vs. otherwise.      

He was still drafted #1 overall... sure... we can try to mortgage the next 3 drafts to move from 6th or 10th or where-ever we land next year... but why not get there the easy way... That's the point... Jets have no structure and not a good enough GM right now... It won't take much for them to lose every game next year anyway,.

And why are you arguing semantics so hard... why is it so important to win a few games next year... They have nothing in place to win a superbowl so what's the point... they need to rebuild.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Skeptable said:

He was still drafted #1 overall... sure... we can try to mortgage the next 3 drafts to move from 6th or 10th or where-ever we land next year... but why not get there the easy way... That's the point... Jets have no structure and not a good enough GM right now... It won't take much for them to lose every game next year anyway,.

And why are you arguing semantics so hard... why is it so important to win a few games next year... They have nothing in place to win a superbowl so what's the point... they need to rebuild.

Your plan is to keep a GM, coach and players on board pulling for the same goal, to win as few games as possible?   Seems plausible. I'm sure people will be lining up to play with your new stud in 2018.

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You or I don't make that decision, but if I was a betting man I would put all my money on Eli going to the Hall of Fame.

I know they let in too many players that don't deserve it but it would be the ultimate slap in the face to HOFers if Eli was even seriously discussed.  he's not even a borderline candidate at this point.

[Skeptable]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Your plan is to keep a GM, coach and players on board pulling for the same goal, to win as few games as possible?   Seems plausible. I'm sure people will be lining up to play with your new stud in 2018.

Hence why you offer Harbaugh the full monty next year... full control and 15 Mill a year... then its simple... people would love to play for harbaugh, a great new QB and a chance to play in NY.

[Skeptable]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I know they let in too many players that don't deserve it but it would be the ultimate slap in the face to HOFers if Eli was even seriously discussed.  he's not even a borderline candidate at this point.

I disagree and we will see in about 10 years. Other than that I couldn't care less if he makes it or not.. Since I don't own a Deloran I will have to wait like normal folk to find out.

[Rangers9]

Nope. I want to win. As many games as possible. 

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I disagree and we will see in about 10 years. Other than that I couldn't care less if he makes it or not.. Since I don't own a Deloran I will have to wait like normal folk to find out.

he's a solid starting QB who in most years is barely a top 10 QB.  he's not a HOFer unless he has some big #s seasons these next few years, he blew a golden chance this year and will be a year older.  he doesn't belong in the discussions.

 

the man has won playoff games in only 2 of his 13 seasons, never made an all pro team, 2 legit PBs, led league in INts multiple times, in SB winning years led teams w/ SB talent in weak division to 9 and 10 wins.  Sorry.

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

 

every team had an opportunity to draft both of these players.

[Jet_Engine1]

9 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

 

every team had an opportunity to draft both of these players.

Once. Carr was the first or second pick of the second round. Can't remember off hand. But yes, all the teams had the opportunity to draft him once but let paralysis by analysis let them think he was his brother somehow or something. The Raiders were in a position to run to the podium and grab a first round talent very early in the second round.

 

And whoever it was that said, "remember when people wanted to tank for Geno Smith?".

 

No. I don't. Neither do you, because it never happened. Ever. In any reality. Not is anyone tanking for Mitch Trubisky. Nice player, maybe. That's it. And no, nobody was tanking for DeShaun Watson. Because as good a kid he is, and as good as some of his NCAA moments were, scouts see a gifted COLLEGE QB who isn't an elite NFL Talent.