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We need the Jets to suck this year.


Jet_Engine1
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20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he's a solid starting QB who in most years is barely a top 10 QB.  he's not a HOFer unless he has some big #s seasons these next few years, he blew a golden chance this year and will be a year older.  he doesn't belong in the discussions.

 

the man has won playoff games in only 2 of his 13 seasons, never made an all pro team, 2 legit PBs, led league in INts multiple times, in SB winning years led teams w/ SB talent in weak division to 9 and 10 wins.  Sorry.

I'd take him as the Jets QB anyday

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54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he's nowhere near a Hall of famer.  he has 1-2 HOF caliber seasons, never made an all pro team, only made a PB team 2x legitimately(w/o being 7th injury replacement) and he derailed a potential SB season this year despite having the best WR in the league to throw to.

he played well in both SB runs but the D is why they got to and won both SBs and he didn't deserve either SB MVP.  his best quality is durability but that alone doesn't get you to the Hall.

Eli MANNING won 2 Rings for the NEW YORK GIANTS. You know, owned by the family whos patriarchs nickname is on the goddamned ball...

 

LOL.  

 

He goes in 5 years after he retires. 

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3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

Go away

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3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

The last thing we need is to suck. Let's win and stop with the idiocy.

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28 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I'd take him as the Jets QB anyday

I would too but he's not a HOFer.  He's a solid QB you can win with, I wish we had a guy like that.

19 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Eli MANNING won 2 Rings for the NEW YORK GIANTS. You know, owned by the family whos patriarchs nickname is on the goddamned ball...

 

LOL.  

 

He goes in 5 years after he retires. 

he won 2 rings as part of a team, the D won both of those SBs.

 

2007 NE averaged 37 PPG, NYG held them to 14

2011 NE averaged 32 PPG, NYG held them to 17

 

Eli played well but this is a man who:

-has never made ANY all pro team

-made 2 real PBs(which isn't a big honor anyway)

-highest he ever finished in pass TDs was 4th

-only finished in top 10(7th) in passer rating once

-led NFL in INTs THREE times including 2 seasons w/ 35 or more INTs(top 5 in INTs 6 times)

-highest he ever finished in pass yards was 4th

-won playoff games in only TWO of his 13 seasons

-missed playoffs 6 of 7 years w/ SB caliber talent most of those years

 

he's not a HOFer, not even in the discussion.

 

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It's not sucking every year.  It's not sucking for Watson or Geno types.  This is a one time thing and the timing is perfect.  Elite, can't miss QB available and perfect roster to suck. 

Play the kid QB's.  Trade this year's draft picks for next year.  Don't sign free agents.  Roll over cap space.  It's perfect timing for ONE year.

Once we get our franchise QB, lets go back to 5-11 and 8-8 and build the rest of the team from there.  

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5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

that's just silliness. are you saying they should fold for darnold? just like the colts with their suck for luck?  what have the colts done lately?  yeah luck is a really good qb but that team is in such a mess otherwise they're not going to be doing much in the near future.  all that losing does is breed more losing.  the only way it's good is if they play as well as they can and still lose.

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2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

The last thing we need is to suck. Let's win and stop with the idiocy.

When you don't know who the worst poker player at the table is...

It's you. 

After the overdue housecleaning, the Jets are a bottom 4 team in the league.  If you can't see that, you're the worst player.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

that's just silliness. are you saying they should fold for darnold? just like the colts with their suck for luck?  what have the colts done lately?  yeah luck is a really good qb but that team is in such a mess otherwise they're not going to be doing much in the near future.  all that losing does is breed more losing.  the only way it's good is if they play as well as they can and still lose.

What the Colts are doing with Luck is criminal. But Irsay deserves it. 

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6 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

 

There are many that know you are correct.  That the 8-8 crap is counterproductive and pointless.

The ones that don't get it... let them "rah rah" away for a 4-12 season instead of the 2-14 we hope for.

Their already crap roster is about to be gutted.  I think we are going to get what we want... without emotionally investing anything.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

that's just silliness. are you saying they should fold for darnold? just like the colts with their suck for luck?  what have the colts done lately?  yeah luck is a really good qb but that team is in such a mess otherwise they're not going to be doing much in the near future.  all that losing does is breed more losing.  the only way it's good is if they play as well as they can and still lose.

Those two useless wins at the end of 2014 were fabulous, weren't they?!?!

You got to cheer away, right?!?!

Meanwhile... they cost the Jets Marcus Mariota.

Clearly, it was worth it so you could celebrate a meaningless win.

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5 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Those two useless wins at the end of 2014 were fabulous, weren't they?!?!

You got to cheer away, right?!?!

Meanwhile... they cost the Jets Marcus Mariota.

Clearly, it was worth it so you could celebrate a meaningless win.

fwiw, mariota broke his leg this past season and while it looks like he's going to be more than just good, he's not in canton yet.  and the titans probably aren't going anywhere either.

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I would too but he's not a HOFer.  He's a solid QB you can win with, I wish we had a guy like that.

he won 2 rings as part of a team, the D won both of those SBs.

 

2007 NE averaged 37 PPG, NYG held them to 14

2011 NE averaged 32 PPG, NYG held them to 17

 

Eli played well but this is a man who:

-has never made ANY all pro team

-made 2 real PBs(which isn't a big honor anyway)

-highest he ever finished in pass TDs was 4th

-only finished in top 10(7th) in passer rating once

-led NFL in INTs THREE times including 2 seasons w/ 35 or more INTs(top 5 in INTs 6 times)

-highest he ever finished in pass yards was 4th

-won playoff games in only TWO of his 13 seasons

-missed playoffs 6 of 7 years w/ SB caliber talent most of those years

 

he's not a HOFer, not even in the discussion.

 

2 time Super Bowl MVP and led two game winning drives in both of those Win's. The guy will be a Hall of Famer. Maybe not 1st ballot but he will be in Canton before its all over.

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2 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Breakdown by pick of super bowl winning QBs since the 1978 Super Bowl.  Draft data from 1970-2015.

Everyone loves a Kurt Warner or Russell Wilson story because they are uncommon and they have a "anything could happen" feel to them.  It makes for a good story if you can find that non first round gem that can win you a super bowl. 

Overall Pick Count Number of players Chances
1 6 21 28.6%
2-5 2 23 8.7%
6-10 0 13 0.0%
11-15 1 12 8.3%
16-20 2 8 25.0%
21-25 1 12 8.3%
26-32 1 10 10.0%
33-64 2 57 3.5%
65-92 2 57 3.5%
93-128 1 57 1.8%
128+ 4 254 1.6%

This is flawed analysis but it fits my agenda... so good job!

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11 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

2 time Super Bowl MVP and led two game winning drives in both of those Win's. The guy will be a Hall of Famer. Maybe not 1st ballot but he will be in Canton before its all over.

Eli is a compiler.  He never misses a game and will play into his 40s.  His compiled stats over 20 years plus 2 super bowl rings will get him in the Hall easily.

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4 minutes ago, dcJet said:

This is flawed analysis but it fits my agenda... so good job!

Out of curiosity, what is the flaw in the analysis?  Was not trying to prove one way or the other.  Was just trying to provide statistics behind where QBs are drafted that win super bowls.  Nothing to do with QBs that have sustained successful or future hall of famers.

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32 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Out of curiosity, what is the flaw in the analysis?  Was not trying to prove one way or the other.  Was just trying to provide statistics behind where QBs are drafted that win super bowls.  Nothing to do with QBs that have sustained successful or future hall of famers.

After further review... my call is reversed.

I was thinking 6 total super bowl wins by players, not the actual and amazing 14 wins by 6 players out of 21 drafted number one. 

I'm doubling down on the suck. 

It's perfect next year as I posted because we can play kids, but even better when you consider Woody out of the country gives him perfect cover for the shenanigans.   Can perfect timing be even more perfect?

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8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

1-15 por favor

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What we need is an OC and a CS that can develop a damn qb. I may be the only one who thinks this way but Hack not touching the field is a damn joke how is playing against 3rd string players in closed practices going to help this kid?!?!?!!!? You don't spend the 51st pick on a kid who's not even good enough to play when we're 4-10!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Hacks got talent but we keep waiting for the next Andrew Luck prospect to come out and it might not be for a while before one does but in the mean time having a coach who knows wtf he's doing with these qbs could help

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I hate this discussion.  The same tired argument on the other side.  Every year we do it their way and every year the same mediocrity or usually worse is the result.

I agree with the OP.  For once we need to go out and get the #1 overall and pray that there is a franchise QB out there to be had.  We have been down that other road and we KNOW where it leads.

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5 hours ago, SMC said:

It's not just sucking.  It's sucking in the right year when a franchise altering QB is available 1st overall.  

Otherwise, just keep on playing to win and if things go badly, you get the 2016-17 Jets.

Exactly.  Sucking this year does nothing at all. Sucking the year before Sam Donarld comes out gives us a chance, just a chance, but a chance, to see how it feels to have a franchise QB rather than the fifty years plus of having not. It's a QB is riches league and I would like to hit the freaking lottery one damn time! Probably won't happen but a fat bastard can dream. Can't he? 

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1 hour ago, dcJet said:

Also, this past year was unwatchable.  Give us a reason to watch.   If we play all the kids, we'll see effort.  Every loss will be tempered with watching the kids progress and knowledge that a franchise qb is probably on the way.

Agree 100%. The Browns are doing exactly this.

It is the correct model.

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1 hour ago, SR24 said:

What we need is an OC and a CS that can develop a damn qb. I may be the only one who thinks this way but Hack not touching the field is a damn joke how is playing against 3rd string players in closed practices going to help this kid?!?!?!!!? You don't spend the 51st pick on a kid who's not even good enough to play when we're 4-10!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Hacks got talent but we keep waiting for the next Andrew Luck prospect to come out and it might not be for a while before one does but in the mean time having a coach who knows wtf he's doing with these qbs could help

 

"Developing" QBs is a nonsensical notion.  QBs are born, not made.

A coach can tweak a QB here, and teach him something there.  Maybe adjust the system to suit a skill set.

But a QB is either a canvas awaiting a beautiful oil painting?  Or a piece of paper with color by numbers that a kid-friendly restaurant has for a place mat...

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, RoadFan said:

 

"Developing" QBs is a nonsensical notion.  QBs are born, not made.

A coach can tweak a QB here, and teach him something there.  Maybe adjust the system to suit a skill set.

But a QB is either a canvas awaiting a beautiful oil painting?  Or a piece of paper with color by numbers that a kid-friendly restaurant has for a place mat...

 

 

 

Qb's can be developed. Steve Young and Brett Favre both we're looking like major busts early in their career, but with a good coaching staff to develop them they become HOFers. On the other side, you have qbs like RG3 and Blake Bortles to show how a coaching staff can ruin a talented qb.

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18 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

This really should not be a problem. 

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Tomlin has been blessed with the greatest general manager in football. He has cut better receivers than we have drafted over the past decade. He has David Decastro on his line whom he drafted. He has begun a rebuilt backfield to replace Polamalu and doesn't seem to have lost a beat. His linebacker corps is fast and tough. LeVeon Bell is out of his mind. 

Theyre just slightly more prepped than you give them credit for and they do it by finishing first or second in their division almost every year. 

Lastly I wouldn't trust this franchise if we had been given Andrew Luck. We would have ruined it. I'm not even kidding. 

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11 hours ago, EM31 said:

I hate this discussion.  The same tired argument on the other side.  Every year we do it their way and every year the same mediocrity or usually worse is the result.

I agree with the OP.  For once we need to go out and get the #1 overall and pray that there is a franchise QB out there to be had.  We have been down that other road and we KNOW where it leads.

The arguments are tired.  I can see having this discussion at the end of a season when things are going wrong.  For instance from the bye (or maybe as far as the Cards game) onward this past year.  The season is already lost and you should see what you have in your young kids rather than scrapping to get every last win when it will only hurt draft position.  Tanking from before the draft?  Among the dumbest ideas I have heard.  Some of us have been down this road.  Twice.  In a row.  It didn't solve sh*t. 

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