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We need the Jets to suck this year.


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1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

Tomlin has been blessed with the greatest general manager in football. He has cut better receivers than we have drafted over the past decade. He has David Decastro on his line whom he drafted. He has begun a rebuilt backfield to replace Polamalu and doesn't seem to have lost a beat. His linebacker corps is fast and tough. LeVeon Bell is out of his mind. 

Theyre just slightly more prepped than you give them credit for and they do it by finishing first or second in their division almost every year. 

Lastly I wouldn't trust this franchise if we had been given Andrew Luck. We would have ruined it. I'm not even kidding. 

agreed.  BUT Tomlin appears to be a solid coach. His players talk about him as a NOTHING but a win is acceptable coach.  

I cant help but think if we drafted Big Ben for example, he wouldnt be the QB he is. Parading Herm and Mangini around?

Who knows but  great players need great management to develop players around them. We have neither..... 

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13 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

2 time Super Bowl MVP and led two game winning drives in both of those Win's. The guy will be a Hall of Famer. Maybe not 1st ballot but he will be in Canton before its all over.

awesome job on those drives(one where a ball stuck to a helmet moments after throwing a ball that should have been an easy INT to seal the game) but those are just 2 games, HOF is based on career not if you win a SB.  SBs can help if you are a borderline candidate it can push you over the top but he's not a borderline candidate.  they let plenty of undeserving players in but they can't let a mediocre QB like Eli in.  we saw last week what happens to him when his D doesn't completely shut down an opponent and force a million TOs for him.

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1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

The only two quarterbacks that the Jets have actually developed properly were Joe Namath and Tom Brady. Namath because of Weeb and Brady because we gave him his chance to start and the. sucked balls for the last 20 years. 

and namath may be the most overrated QB in the history of the game.  it was mostly injury related but his career overall was mediocre at best.

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14 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Those two useless wins at the end of 2014 were fabulous, weren't they?!?!

You got to cheer away, right?!?!

Meanwhile... they cost the Jets Marcus Mariota.

Clearly, it was worth it so you could celebrate a meaningless win.

I didn't realize we have control over if the Jets win or not, maybe we should start rooting for them to win Sbs so they can actually do it?

12 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Eli is a compiler.  He never misses a game and will play into his 40s.  His compiled stats over 20 years plus 2 super bowl rings will get him in the Hall easily.

He absolutely is a compiler but the HOF is about greatness, Eli was never great for more than a game here or there.  one week he could look like a HOFer and the next he looks like a an undrafted rookie.  the HOF is about sustained greatness, you still have bad games here and there maybe even bad seasons every once in a while but overall you need to be great annually which is something he is not and never has been.  he's a modern day Jim Plunkett.  Nice QB who you can win with but not a HOFer.

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I didn't realize we have control over if the Jets win or not, maybe we should start rooting for them to win Sbs so they can actually do it?

He absolutely is a compiler but the HOF is about greatness, Eli was never great for more than a game here or there.  one week he could look like a HOFer and the next he looks like a an undrafted rookie.  the HOF is about sustained greatness, you still have bad games here and there maybe even bad seasons every once in a while but overall you need to be great annually which is something he is not and never has been.  he's a modern day Jim Plunkett.  Nice QB who you can win with but not a HOFer.

The Jets do have some control over wins and losses.  The Browns DELIBERATELY gutted their roster of veterans, composed half their team of players in their rookie or 2nd season, in order to have a try hard team that lost nearly every game.  Meanwhile, acquiring draft picks through trades and compensatory selections by letting free and gents walk.

Now they have set themselves up to finally build a winning team for 2019.  Unless Idziot is their GM, it will work.

The Jets should follow suit for 2020.

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I didn't realize we have control over if the Jets win or not, maybe we should start rooting for them to win Sbs so they can actually do it?

He absolutely is a compiler but the HOF is about greatness, Eli was never great for more than a game here or there.  one week he could look like a HOFer and the next he looks like a an undrafted rookie.  the HOF is about sustained greatness, you still have bad games here and there maybe even bad seasons every once in a while but overall you need to be great annually which is something he is not and never has been.  he's a modern day Jim Plunkett.  Nice QB who you can win with but not a HOFer.

Yet Namath was the best in the game for a year or three and you call him the most overrated QB in the history of the game?  Maybe you are younger than I thought, but if you had seen him play even in 1972 you would bite your ******* tongue.  

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15 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

The Jets do have some control over wins and losses.  The Browns DELIBERATELY gutted their roster of veterans, composed half their team of players in their rookie or 2nd season, in order to have a try hard team that lost nearly every game.  Meanwhile, acquiring draft picks through trades and compensatory selections by letting free and gents walk.

Now they have set themselves up to finally build a winning team for 2019.  Unless Idziot is their GM, it will work.

The Jets should follow suit for 2020.

that's the Jets not us, whether I root for a win or not means nothing as far as wins and losses.  I can't root for my team to lose, if they do then fine but I can't root for it.

 

Cleveland has been top 5-10 in the draft most years since coming back in 1999, how has that worked for them?

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yet Namath was the best in the game for a year or three and you call him the most overrated QB in the history of the game?  Maybe you are younger than I thought, but if you had seen him play even in 1972 you would bite your ******* tongue.  

Namath had good moments, he wasn't the best for 3 years.  injuries derailed his career but durability counts.

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17 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

2 time Super Bowl MVP and led two game winning drives in both of those Win's. The guy will be a Hall of Famer. Maybe not 1st ballot but he will be in Canton before its all over.

I am glad somebody gets it... and all this does is take away from the initial intent of the comment.  Drafting number 1 overall next year will give the Jets an opportunity they have not had since Peyton Manning... and you see how that turned out.

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15 hours ago, EM31 said:

I hate this discussion.  The same tired argument on the other side.  Every year we do it their way and every year the same mediocrity or usually worse is the result.

I agree with the OP.  For once we need to go out and get the #1 overall and pray that there is a franchise QB out there to be had.  We have been down that other road and we KNOW where it leads.

Exactly... I am done with this losing formula... you need to start over... What Deposta is doing with the Browns... Give it 2 more years and Browns will be in the playoffs making a name

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19 hours ago, rangerous said:

that's just silliness. are you saying they should fold for darnold? just like the colts with their suck for luck?  what have the colts done lately?  yeah luck is a really good qb but that team is in such a mess otherwise they're not going to be doing much in the near future.  all that losing does is breed more losing.  the only way it's good is if they play as well as they can and still lose.

Just because the team isn't building up the offensive line to help luck is not luck's fault... that is just a bad GM... They still have a QB... better then the Jets have had in the last 40 years

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57 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

that's the Jets not us, whether I root for a win or not means nothing as far as wins and losses.  I can't root for my team to lose, if they do then fine but I can't root for it.

 

Cleveland has been top 5-10 in the draft most years since coming back in 1999, how has that worked for them?

Namath had good moments, he wasn't the best for 3 years.  injuries derailed his career but durability counts.

Deposta was just hired... this is a new regime ... give it time and Browns will compete... They are closer then they appear... They had 5 QBs play this year due to injury.... There is some bad luck mixed in there... and to tell you the truth, I think I would rather have the Browns GM, Roster, and coach with 12 draft picks then be the Jets.

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4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Deposta was just hired... this is a new regime ... give it time and Browns will compete... They are closer then they appear... They had 5 QBs play this year due to injury.... There is some bad luck mixed in there... and to tell you the truth, I think I would rather have the Browns GM, Roster, and coach with 12 draft picks then be the Jets.

the browns have some talent, they sucked but they competed this year.  they are not far off from being a decent team.

 

I would much rather have the Browns roster and coach.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

the browns have some talent, they sucked but they competed this year.  they are not far off from being a decent team.

 

I would much rather have the Browns roster and coach.

Since I take it that you don't work for the Jets organization, there's an easy way for you to acquire that situation . The same exact way you acquired the Jets roster and coaching staff is available to any and all who wish as you do . 

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This Jets team is going to look much different next year. I expect them to win a few more games...

Not saying if that's good or bad, but I do think when we look at this reconstructed team in late August, it's going to look better on paper than the one we watched this past season.

 

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3 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Just because the team isn't building up the offensive line to help luck is not luck's fault... that is just a bad GM... They still have a QB... better then the Jets have had in the last 40 years

my point is that when a team gets that kind of mentality, things have a way of going bad. call it bad karma if you will.  you're rihgt.  the colts haven't done what's needed to give luck the tools he needs and they do have a bad gm and front office and owner.

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8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The arguments are tired.  I can see having this discussion at the end of a season when things are going wrong.  For instance from the bye (or maybe as far as the Cards game) onward this past year.  The season is already lost and you should see what you have in your young kids rather than scrapping to get every last win when it will only hurt draft position.  Tanking from before the draft?  Among the dumbest ideas I have heard.  Some of us have been down this road.  Twice.  In a row.  It didn't solve sh*t. 

If you do not believe there is any difference between the #1 or #2 overall and #5 to #8 then yes we have been down that road.

But we have never actually been down this road.  Or at least not for 20 years.  We know franchise QBs are to be had at the very top of the draft or realistically they are not to be had at all.  More often not at all.   If 2018 is a really banner year for QBs then we ought to be thinking in those terms and get one. Sorry if that offends.

I have yet to hear another plan.

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9 hours ago, nyjunc said:

awesome job on those drives(one where a ball stuck to a helmet moments after throwing a ball that should have been an easy INT to seal the game) but those are just 2 games, HOF is based on career not if you win a SB.  SBs can help if you are a borderline candidate it can push you over the top but he's not a borderline candidate.  they let plenty of undeserving players in but they can't let a mediocre QB like Eli in.  we saw last week what happens to him when his D doesn't completely shut down an opponent and force a million TOs for him.

Please he has 2 rings and in his prime was as good as any guy out there. He was not throwing the ball to Rice or anyone of that caliber. You don't like the guy. Fine. It does not change the fact that Eli Manning IS a HOF QB. Christ Almighty I can't believe I'm defending a friggin Giants QB. I HATE THE FRIGGIN GIANTS but I am rational enough to know a HOF QB when I see one.

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16 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Please he has 2 rings and in his prime was as good as any guy out there. He was not throwing the ball to Rice or anyone of that caliber. You don't like the guy. Fine. It does not change the fact that Eli Manning IS a HOF QB. Christ Almighty I can't believe I'm defending a friggin Giants QB. I HATE THE FRIGGIN GIANTS but I am rational enough to know a HOF QB when I see one.

as good as who? he was never a top QB.  Jim Plunkett hs 2 rings too except he led his O's to 26 PPg in SBs while Eli led his O's to 18.  he laso had playoff wins in 3 different postseasons compared to just 2 for Eli.  Eli is not even a borderline candidate.

 

you clearly don't know a HOF QB when you see one.  how can a guy w/ ZERO all pro teams and only 2 PBs(legit, where he wasn't 4th injury replacement) be considered one of the greatest of all time?  you are confusing his compiled #s playing in this pass happy era w/ greatness.

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44 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

as good as who? he was never a top QB.  Jim Plunkett hs 2 rings too except he led his O's to 26 PPg in SBs while Eli led his O's to 18.  he laso had playoff wins in 3 different postseasons compared to just 2 for Eli.  Eli is not even a borderline candidate.

 

you clearly don't know a HOF QB when you see one.  how can a guy w/ ZERO all pro teams and only 2 PBs(legit, where he wasn't 4th injury replacement) be considered one of the greatest of all time?  you are confusing his compiled #s playing in this pass happy era w/ greatness.

 You have to be kidding me? Plunkett? Who was on that team with Plunkett? Eli never had a strong cast around him in those Super Bowl wins yet he still pulled out victories. Name one all-pro on offense besides Tiki that played with Eli.You forget he beat a Patriot team that was undefeated and considered one of the best teams of all time. Regardless of what you think or believe Eli has the stats, rings, and career pedigree to be a HOF'er. As I said in a previous post he may not be a 1st ballot hall of famer but when is all said and done he will be in Canton.

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25 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

 You have to be kidding me? Plunkett? Who was on that team with Plunkett? Eli never had a strong cast around him in those Super Bowl wins yet he still pulled out victories. Name one all-pro on offense besides Tiki that played with Eli.You forget he beat a Patriot team that was undefeated and considered one of the best teams of all time. Regardless of what you think or believe Eli has the stats, rings, and career pedigree to be a HOF'er. As I said in a previous post he may not be a 1st ballot hall of famer but when is all said and done he will be in Canton.

oh boy.  he" beat" that patriot team scoring 17 and 19 pts, he didn't lead some incredible offense and since you asked:

 

on 2007 team:

Plaxico Burress

Amani Toomer

Brandon jacobs

Ahmad Bradshaw

Steve Smith(before he got hurt)

Jeremy Shockey(in reg season)

excellent OL

and in that season HOF Eli w/ SB talent around him threw 20 INTs

 

2011:

Victor Cruz

Hakeem Nicks

Bradshaw

Jacobs

Manngingham

excellent OL

led them to 9 wins

 

 

stop, he had tons of talent  not as much as he had this year when he led them to a 1st rd exit but still had tons of talent- SB talent.  The D and STs led both of those runs, Eli played well but he's not close toa  HOFer.

 

Eli has what stats? please share?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

oh boy.  he" beat" that patriot team scoring 17 and 19 pts, he didn't lead some incredible offense and since you asked:

 

on 2007 team:

Plaxico Burress

Amani Toomer

Brandon jacobs

Ahmad Bradshaw

Steve Smith(before he got hurt)

Jeremy Shockey(in reg season)

excellent OL

and in that season HOF Eli w/ SB talent around him threw 20 INTs

 

2011:

Victor Cruz

Hakeem Nicks

Bradshaw

Jacobs

Manngingham

excellent OL

led them to 9 wins

 

 

stop, he had tons of talent  not as much as he had this year when he led them to a 1st rd exit but still had tons of talent- SB talent.  The D and STs led both of those runs, Eli played well but he's not close toa  HOFer.

 

Eli has what stats? please share?

 

 

 

You are going to disagree no matter what I say or come up with. Eli will be a HOF'er. Eventually he will be in Canton. Whether you like it or not. We agree to disagree.

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Sanchez and Rex, legends for getting to two afc titles.

Manning and Coughlin, lucky bums for winning two super bowls.

Seems about right.

there wasn't much difference btw the 2 teams.  2010 title game Sanchez throws pass they call it a fumble, 2011 title game Bradshaw fumbles and they whistle it dead.  

28 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

You are going to disagree no matter what I say or come up with. Eli will be a HOF'er. Eventually he will be in Canton. Whether you like it or not. We agree to disagree.

I will disagree b/c the  info doesn't support him being a HOFer, literally the only reason is 2 SB MVPs but he led SB caliber talent to 10 and 9 wins, led his O's to 17 and 10 pts in those wins against great O's that his Ds shut down.  He's a good QB you can win with.  he's not a HOFer.  it would be nice if you tried to present a case rather than just tell me he's a lock.

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On 1/18/2017 at 1:33 PM, #27TheDominator said:

Trading and drafting good talent is not luck. Roethisberger went #11 overall.  We draft that early all the time.  Flacco went #18. Just look at the teams that have won the super bowl and how they obtained their QBs and you will see that drafting #1 overall is not as great as you are hyping it. Broncos won with a FA. NE with a 6th rounder, Seahawks a 3rd rounder, Ravens #18 overall, Giants #1 overall obtained through trade, GB #24 overall, Saints FA, Steelers #11 overall, Colts #1 overall, TB FA 9th rounder, Ravens FA #6 overall, Rams UDFA, Broncos #1 overall acquired via trade.  We are getting to ancient history near the end there, but it is both more fun and more sensible to hope for proper management than to suck for draft position. 

Hell, Parcells supposedly wanted Mirer over Bledsoe and the Colts agonized over Manning vs. Leaf. Brains beat luck damn near every time.

Other consensus #1 QBs, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, JaMarcus Russell, David Carr, Tim Couch, etc, etc.  Even the once in a generation guys don't always pan out - I'm looking at you Jeff George.  The Colts have lucked into 3 of the all-time greatest prospects and have won exactly one super bowl during that era.  Whoo-dee-damn-doo. 

THIS! 

It's not about having the top pick (ALTHOUGH THAT HELPS). 

It's about drafting well, developing players and signing the right players. Putting together a good team- PERIOD. 

This is VERY hard to do and involves THE WHOLE TEAM doing the right thing and making tough decisions. From the players to management to coaching to ownership.

Tanking and getting the top pick in 2018 will, indeed, get us the top QB prospect (Darnold?) but that does not mean we will win anything.  

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