How bad do you guys miss Pennington right now?

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

I miss him. We would be getting another 2,000 posts a day if Penny was still on the team.

Yup....just  think about those thousands of orthopedic surgeons that would still be following him and reading here.  When he left, JN lost most of its medical community readers.

[JustInFudge]

Just took a poop.  Gave this some more thought.  

Still dont miss Chadwick. 

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Just took a poop.  Gave this some more thought.  

Still dont miss Chadwick. 

Keep the updates coming.... this is riveting!

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Was the next Joe Montana until the shoulder injury.

not even close.  Montana made decisions far more quickly and changed the play depending on how he read the defense far better than Chad.  Its not that Chad was dumb.... but Montana had brilliant vision and, like Brady, had an uncanny ability to do just the right thing based on what defensive formation he saw.  Chad was just OK (if at all) at this and often got himself killed by misreading defenses and not being ready for what was coming.  Similar arms?  Sure.  But that's about it.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Well... based on your posting here this morning, according to you every time Pennington or Sanchez lost a playoff game it was someone else's fault or it was too cold but every time Manning lost a playoff game it was completely his fault. 

I don't think its a leap in logic to come to the conclusion I came to regarding your ridiculous ranking of quarterbacks. 

I agree with you, I honestly wonder how some people function in real life and you are one of them.

not once have I said either guy was blameless and let me know when they are on Peyton's level so we can compare them fairly.  there are different standards for all time great QBs.

 

Weak rubber/glue retort. I'd say you were better than this but....

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, nyjunc said:

not once have I said either guy was blameless and let me know when they are on Peyton's level so we can compare them fairly.  there are different standards for all time great QBs.

 

Weak rubber/glue retort. I'd say you were better than this but....

You think you're clever but you're really not. You make dumb comments and attempt to back them up with nonsense and then act superior when in reality all you do is dodge when your folly is pointed out to you. 

I want to debate someone who challenges me. Where's PR37 these days? 

[Jet_Engine1]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

How much do u guys miss Suipeli Malamala let's hear it for the boy come on

Soup! 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

You think you're clever but you're really not. You make dumb comments and attempt to back them up with nonsense and then act superior when in reality all you do is dodge when your folly is pointed out to you. 

I want to debate someone who challenges me. Where's PR37 these days? 

challenges you? i destroy you, I am the one who needs the challenge.  all you do is hurl insults and make stuff up b/c your arguments are so weak,

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, nyjunc said:

challenges you? i destroy you, I am the one who needs the challenge.  all you do is hurl insults and make stuff up b/c your arguments are so weak,

Yawn. 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Yawn. 

the first thing you have said that actually makes sense.

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, nyjunc said:

the first thing you have said that actually makes sense.

And you're a last word junkie. Sad.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

And you're a last word junkie. Sad.

says the guy trying to get the last word in.

[southparkcpa]

27 minutes ago, JiF said:

Just took a poop.  Gave this some more thought.  

Still dont miss Chadwick. 

Agreed.  If you took the word "IF", "Could", "Should"  away from any analysis of Pennington, there's not much there.

Durability matters.  yet the paper tiger arguments continue by the 8th place trophy crowd.

[Klecko73isGod]

18 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

says the guy trying to get the last word in.

Seriously? Let it go, man.

[Jet_Engine1]

Pennington was an average to above average QB for multiple seasons for the Jets. He was solid when healthy, and good for 9-10 wins and a playoff spot when healthy. Do I think he was elite? I did for a while in 2002, but after that, no. But he was good enough to give you a shot at the playoffs when healthy.

 

And that's the problem. The injuries. Even if he wasn't elite, had things been different and he didn't have two shoulder injuries and his career had gone it's natural path, he would have given the Jets solid QB play and stability at the position for over a decade. That would have gone a long way to the Jets development as a team. Not having to worry about QB is a LUXURY in the NFL. We wouldn't be the sh*tshow of a team still trying to just figure out the basics of building a damn roster with that kind of stability, and I doubt in the Brady era it would have made a huge difference as far as winning championships, but at least we would have fielded an upper echelon AFC team for a solid 10-12 years instead of the absurdist rollercoaster ride we've been in since basically 2006. 

 

And the Jets wouldn't be the place coaching careers go to die. Maybe we would have a long time OC ready to take over, or a team coaches wouldn't be horrified to even interview with. LOL.

 

So, do I "miss" Pennington? No. I miss the optimism I had in 2002. I miss having a professional QB who actually knew how to play the position and give a crap about it. As opposed to the litany of jackasses we've watched since a Brett Favre that literally couldn't give a sh*t about New York and the Jets was our QB in 2008 and the depressing sh*tshow that soon followed, including the complete implosion of Sanchez.

 

And here we are. A guy we KNOW can't play (Petty), and a guy we're pretty sure can't play (Hack). And a soon to be named washed up has been or never was from some other teams dumpster. Because, Jets.

 

 

[nyjunc]

Jet fans will tell me how great Ken O'Brien was and bash Chad Pennington.  you just can't make this stuff up.

[Jetsfan80]

Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez were actually both awesome, you guys.  Just look at all the trophies we have to show for it.  A 2002 tiebreaker 9-7 division title and....what else?

Patriots have dominated this division for 17 years and there's still somebody who thinks our QB's in this millenium haven't been a problem.  Unreal.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez were actually both awesome, you guys.  Just look at all the trophies we have to show for it. 

Patriots have dominated this division for 17 years and there's still somebody who thinks our QB's in this millenium haven't been a problem.  Unreal.

so you don't think facing the greatest QB of all time during this era has hurt us?  you don't think it was miraculous that we won the division in 2002 becoming the only non Pats team to do so when Brady has been NE's primary starter.  you don't think going into Foxboro and whipping Brady and the Pats in the div rd was a big deal?  Only SB titles for you!  so when UNCW lost rd 1 last year was it a failure that they didn't win the NCAA title?

 

we have the worst fans on the planet, we deserve the 2016 season.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I will play along:

Chad's teams w/ him vs. w/o in seasons he didn't play all 16 games:

 

w/ him: 44-37, 4 playoff apps, 2 div titles

w/o him: 24-39, zero playoff apps

 

looks almost identical!

 

 

So considering what you just wrote actually contains multiple lies, not to mention a serious misrepresentation of the information that isn't a lie, let's break down the facts of the split seasons after 2002, shall we:

2003:  Vinny 2-4 (33%), Chad 4-6 (40%)

2004:  Chad 9-6 (60%), Carter 2-1 (66.6%)

2005:  Chad 1-2 (33%), Vinny/Bollywood 3-10 (23%)

2007:  Chad 1-8 (11%), Clemens 3-4 (43%)

So yeah, the point of pure fact is that, in a given season, the team's performance was always quite comparable with or without Pennington.  The one most in Chad's favor was the slightly higher level of sh*ttiness he provided in 2005, while on the flip side, the team performed quite a bit better without Chad in 2007.

If we want to start counting his time in Miami, that only makes him look worse considering that in 2009 they went from 0-3 with him to 7-6 with Henne.  Once again showing that he seems to have provided little-to-no value above any of his backups.  2002 is the one and only exception to this his entire career, and from a purely statistical standpoint, evidence suggests that year was simply an outlier for his career.

[roscoeword]

will never forget the Jet game where he was knocked down on his shoulder again, writhing in pain, and you can hear Jet fans cheering in the crowd.

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So considering what you just wrote actually contains multiple lies, not to mention a serious misrepresentation of the information that isn't a lie, let's break down the facts of the split seasons after 2002, shall we:

2003:  Vinny 2-4 (33%), Chad 4-6 (40%)

2004:  Chad 9-6 (60%), Carter 2-1 (66.6%)

2005:  Chad 1-2 (33%), Vinny/Bollywood 3-10 (23%)

2007:  Chad 1-8 (11%), Clemens 3-4 (43%)

So yeah, the point of pure fact is that, in a given season, the team's performance was always quite comparable with or without Pennington.  The one most in Chad's favor was the slightly higher level of sh*ttiness he provided in 2005, while on the flip side, the team performed quite a bit better without Chad in 2007.

If we want to start counting his time in Miami, that only makes him look worse considering that in 2009 they went from 0-3 with him to 7-6 with Henne.  Once again showing that he seems to have provided little-to-no value above any of his backups.  2002 is the one and only exception to this his entire career, and from a purely statistical standpoint, evidence suggests that year was simply an outlier for his career.

It also didn't hurt that no one had a scouting report on him yet in '02. Once they did, boy did things change. 

[thadude]

12 hours ago, tfine said:

In 2009-2010 if he was our QB we win the Super Bowl.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

No

[thadude]

Chad had an ok career with the jets.  Made the playoffs a couple times.  Once Belichick put the book out on him it was over and the injuries were non stop with him

 

Would I take him over any qb we had last 5-6 years? Yes but all of our qb's have been horrible

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

It also didn't hurt that no one had a scouting report on him yet in '02. Once they did, boy did things change. 

He was also at his healthiest in '02.  He was more mobile in the pocket and capable of actually throwing downfield.  Then the wrist and shoulder injuries started happening

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So considering what you just wrote actually contains multiple lies, not to mention a serious misrepresentation of the information that isn't a lie, let's break down the facts of the split seasons after 2002, shall we:

2003:  Vinny 2-4 (33%), Chad 4-6 (40%)

2004:  Chad 9-6 (60%), Carter 2-1 (66.6%)

2005:  Chad 1-2 (33%), Vinny/Bollywood 3-10 (23%)

2007:  Chad 1-8 (11%), Clemens 3-4 (43%)

So yeah, the point of pure fact is that, in a given season, the team's performance was always quite comparable with or without Pennington.  The one most in Chad's favor was the slightly higher level of sh*ttiness he provided in 2005, while on the flip side, the team performed quite a bit better without Chad in 2007.

If we want to start counting his time in Miami, that only makes him look worse considering that in 2009 they went from 0-3 with him to 7-6 with Henne.  Once again showing that he seems to have provided little-to-no value above any of his backups.  2002 is the one and only exception to this his entire career, and from a purely statistical standpoint, evidence suggests that year was simply an outlier for his career.

My #s are correct, they were taken from games he starter and I used his the other QBs #s from seasons he missed games.

 

Chad's teams were 44-37 w/ him as starter which included 4 playoff apps and 2 div titles

his backups were 24-39 which included zero playoff apps

 

backups:

2002: Vinny 1-3

2003: Vinny 2-5

2004: Carter 2-1(in 2 wins the D allowed a TOTAL of 10 pts in 2 good weather games)

2005: others 3-10

2007: Clemens 3-5

2009: Henne 7-6

2010: others 6-9

 

1+2+2+3+3+7+6=24

3+5+1+10+5+6+9=39

 

therefore record w/o him was 24-39

 

the only lies posted here are by you.  Look it up.

 

 

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

It also didn't hurt that no one had a scouting report on him yet in '02. Once they did, boy did things change. 

yep,  so when he came back in 2003 and threw 9 TDs and 2 INTs in his first 3 games back did they not have scouting reports?  in 2004 going into that Buffalo game(game 8) where he tore his rotator cuff he had us at 6-1 and his #s were:

 

137-201, 1502 yds, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 99.1 rating

 

so did they not have scouting reports on him by then too?

[nyjunc]

24 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

will never forget the Jet game where he was knocked down on his shoulder again, writhing in pain, and you can hear Jet fans cheering in the crowd.

I think that was his foot in the 2007 opener but that is why we have the worst fanbase in sports.

19 minutes ago, thadude said:

Chad had an ok career with the jets.  Made the playoffs a couple times.  Once Belichick put the book out on him it was over and the injuries were non stop with him

 

Would I take him over any qb we had last 5-6 years? Yes but all of our qb's have been horrible

when did BB "put the book on him"?  b/c he led Miami to a div title his last healthy year of 2008 beating out NE.  he took over what was a 1 win team in 2007 and led them to 11 wins.  Just curious when this book came out.

[Bleedin Green]

9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

My #s are correct, they were taken from games he starter and I used his the other QBs #s from seasons he missed games.

 

Chad's teams were 44-37 w/ him as starter which included 4 playoff apps and 2 div titles

his backups were 24-39 which included zero playoff apps

 

backups:

2002: Vinny 1-3

2003: Vinny 2-5

2004: Carter 2-1(in 2 wins the D allowed a TOTAL of 10 pts in 2 good weather games)

2005: others 3-10

2007: Clemens 3-5

2009: Henne 7-6

2010: others 6-9

 

1+2+2+3+3+7+6=24

3+5+1+10+5+6+9=39

 

therefore record w/o him was 24-39

 

the only lies posted here are by you.  Look it up.

 

 

This is wrong on so many levels.  For starters, you're attempting to compare different seasons to each other, which has absolutely no legitimacy to it whatsoever.  The only matter of relevance that could actually show what value he provided over his backups is how the same team performed with different QBs, which has already been proven to be very comparable.  The Jets' record with him at QB in 2002 doesn't have any relevance to whether he was a better QB in 2009 than Henne, because that was quite definitively proven otherwise, and the 7 years apart on different teams could not possibly make those numbers any less relevant to each other, yet that's what you're trying to do anyway.

Secondly, you are crediting Chad for any success that was had by the teams in any seasons that he played at all, but then not counting them for other QBs who played in those same seasons, despite counting those games in their records.  That makes those statements 100% pure lies.  You are then laughably trying to use numbers when he was nothing but a backup in 2010.  By that logic, you should be counting the Jets 2000 and 2001 records and accomplishments for the "others", but that doesn't fit your agenda, so of course you didn't.

You're seriously all over the map with this, because over the course of the argument you're trying to make, which basis doesn't even have any validity to it to begin with, you are contradicting your own supposed "logic" by counting the same seasons completely differently from one moment to the next.  In the end, all you really did here is ignore the numbers that had already proved you wrong, because nothing you said actually disputed any of it even slightly.

[southparkcpa]

49 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So considering what you just wrote actually contains multiple lies, not to mention a serious misrepresentation of the information that isn't a lie, let's break down the facts of the split seasons after 2002, shall we:

2003:  Vinny 2-4 (33%), Chad 4-6 (40%)

2004:  Chad 9-6 (60%), Carter 2-1 (66.6%)

2005:  Chad 1-2 (33%), Vinny/Bollywood 3-10 (23%)

2007:  Chad 1-8 (11%), Clemens 3-4 (43%)

So yeah, the point of pure fact is that, in a given season, the team's performance was always quite comparable with or without Pennington.  The one most in Chad's favor was the slightly higher level of sh*ttiness he provided in 2005, while on the flip side, the team performed quite a bit better without Chad in 2007.

If we want to start counting his time in Miami, that only makes him look worse considering that in 2009 they went from 0-3 with him to 7-6 with Henne.  Once again showing that he seems to have provided little-to-no value above any of his backups.  2002 is the one and only exception to this his entire career, and from a purely statistical standpoint, evidence suggests that year was simply an outlier for his career.

How dare you use facts.....  

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

This is wrong on so many levels.  For starters, you're attempting to compare different seasons to each other, which has absolutely no legitimacy to it whatsoever.  The only matter of relevance that could actually show what value he provided over his backups is how the same team performed with different QBs, which has already been proven to be very comparable.  The Jets' record with him at QB in 2002 doesn't have any relevance to whether he was a better QB in 2009 than Henne, because that was quite definitively proven otherwise, and the 7 years apart on different teams could not possibly make those numbers any less relevant to each other, yet that's what you're trying to do anyway.

Secondly, you are crediting Chad for any success that was had by the teams in any seasons that he played at all, but then not counting them for other QBs who played in those same seasons, despite counting those games in their records.  That makes those statements 100% pure lies.  You are then laughably trying to use numbers when he was nothing but a backup in 2010.  By that logic, you should be counting the Jets 2000 and 2001 records and accomplishments for the "others", but that doesn't fit your agenda, so of course you didn't.

You're seriously all over the map with this, because over the course of the argument you're trying to make, which basis doesn't even have any validity to it to begin with, you are contradicting your own supposed "logic" by counting the same seasons completely differently from one moment to the next.  In the end, all you really did here is ignore the numbers that had already proved you wrong, because nothing you said actually disputed any of it even slightly.

I am comparing what his teams did w/ him compared to what they did w/ backups.  it's obvious to anyone being fair his teams were much better w/ him than w/o but b/c we went 2-1 in 2004 people are fooled.  those 2 wins we faced awful Cle and Ari, we barely won both despite the D allowing a TOTAL of 10 pts.

 

the only one all over the map is you trying to skew #s.  the facts are his teams were much better w/ him than w/o.  there is a reason that any season he had double digit starts his teams made the playoffs every time and any season he had less(once he became a starter) his teams flamed out and were terrible.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

How dare you use facts.....  

especially when they are NOT facts but how would you know that? you just want to whine and complain.

[JustInFudge]

I just had a delicious spicy octopus with cucumber roll and some seaweed salad for lunch.  It allowed me to give this thread some more thought.

And I still do not miss Chadwick Pennington. 

[Bleedin Green]

26 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

yep,  so when he came back in 2003 and threw 9 TDs and 2 INTs in his first 3 games back did they not have scouting reports?  in 2004 going into that Buffalo game(game 8) where he tore his rotator cuff he had us at 6-1 and his #s were:

 

137-201, 1502 yds, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 99.1 rating

 

so did they not have scouting reports on him by then too?

It's funny that you think one small portion of 2003 actually helps your point, when from there he then proceeded to finish the rest of the season with 4 TDs and 9 INTs, without any injury to blame it on.

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's funny that you think one small portion of 2003 actually helps your point, when from there he then proceeded to finish the rest of the season with 4 TDs and 9 INTs, without any injury to blame it on.

Not to mention his playoff appearance with the FINS where he single handed threw more picks than anyone can remember.

It was like a carnival game watching him throw pick after pick.

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I am comparing what his teams did w/ him compared to what they did w/ backups.  it's obvious to anyone being fair his teams were much better w/ him than w/o but b/c we went 2-1 in 2004 people are fooled.  those 2 wins we faced awful Cle and Ari, we barely won both despite the D allowing a TOTAL of 10 pts.

 

the only one all over the map is you trying to skew #s.  the facts are his teams were much better w/ him than w/o.  there is a reason that any season he had double digit starts his teams made the playoffs every time and any season he had less(once he became a starter) his teams flamed out and were terrible.

No, I compared what the same teams did with him vs their backups.  You compared what different teams did, which means absolutely nothing.  You also cherry picked which numbers and crediting you do or don't like to use, then try to blame the backups for seasons like Chad having a losing record for the season when he did actually play 10 games (2003), when he got benched for playing like sh*t and the team did better without him (2007), not being able to overcome his sh*tty start to the season he had before being carted off (2009), or being a backup the entire season (2010).