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How bad do you guys miss Pennington right now?


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12 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's funny that you think one small portion of 2003 actually helps your point, when from there he then proceeded to finish the rest of the season with 4 TDs and 9 INTs, without any injury to blame it on.

it actually does make the point, if they all of a sudden had the scouting report based on that oak PO game then how could he ever have had any more success? his career was based on health, when healthy he was good.  he just wasn't durable enough.

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10 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Not to mention his playoff appearance with the FINS where he single handed threw more picks than anyone can remember.

It was like a carnival game watching him throw pick after pick.

go check and see who he had to throw to in that game against a really good Baltimore D.  let me know what you find.

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7 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

No, I compared what the same teams did with him vs their backups.  You compared what different teams did, which means absolutely nothing.  You also cherry picked which numbers and crediting you do or don't like to use, then try to blame the backups for seasons like Chad having a losing record for the season when he did actually play 10 games (2003), when he got benched for playing like sh*t and the team did better without him (2007), not being able to overcome his sh*tty start to the season he had before being carted off (2009), or being a backup the entire season (2010).

I compared overall which is all that matters.  is someone really dumb enough to argue that 2002 or 2003 Vinny was as good as Chad? or that Quincy Carter 2004 was as good as Chad?  seriously, look at what you are trying to say.

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Chad was a smart but physically limited game manager whose career was knocked off the rails by injuries. He never performed in big games against great defenses, but was a good, above average QB for most of his career. Had he been more physically durable (and not "like an egg" back there) he would have had a pretty good career even if he never won it all.

I don't yearn for Chad but he's still probably the second best Jets QB of my lifetime.

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47 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

This is wrong on so many levels.  For starters, you're attempting to compare different seasons to each other, which has absolutely no legitimacy to it whatsoever.  The only matter of relevance that could actually show what value he provided over his backups is how the same team performed with different QBs, which has already been proven to be very comparable.  The Jets' record with him at QB in 2002 doesn't have any relevance to whether he was a better QB in 2009 than Henne, because that was quite definitively proven otherwise, and the 7 years apart on different teams could not possibly make those numbers any less relevant to each other, yet that's what you're trying to do anyway.

Secondly, you are crediting Chad for any success that was had by the teams in any seasons that he played at all, but then not counting them for other QBs who played in those same seasons, despite counting those games in their records.  That makes those statements 100% pure lies.  You are then laughably trying to use numbers when he was nothing but a backup in 2010.  By that logic, you should be counting the Jets 2000 and 2001 records and accomplishments for the "others", but that doesn't fit your agenda, so of course you didn't.

You're seriously all over the map with this, because over the course of the argument you're trying to make, which basis doesn't even have any validity to it to begin with, you are contradicting your own supposed "logic" by counting the same seasons completely differently from one moment to the next.  In the end, all you really did here is ignore the numbers that had already proved you wrong, because nothing you said actually disputed any of it even slightly.

You do realize when you argue with him, you're just reenacting the poker scene from Big Daddy and hoping for a different result.

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You do realize when you argue with him, you're just reenacting the poker scene from Big Daddy and hoping for a different result.

What can I say, it's been kind of an unusually slow day at work.  Besides, these things still pretty much just write themselves even after all those years.  A little trip down memory lane.

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47 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You do realize when you argue with him, you're just reenacting the poker scene from Big Daddy and hoping for a different result.

I love when others chime in despite the post they are talking about being so spectacularly wrong.  You guys believe what you want to believe, clearly Vinny '02/'03/'05 was better than Chad, Quincy was better than Chad, Bollinger was better, Clemens, etc...

 

you guys do crack me up though.  if you paid attention rather than try to insult you might learn something so your future arguments won't be so moronic.

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I love when others chime in despite the post they are talking about being so spectacularly wrong.  You guys believe what you want to believe, clearly Vinny '02/'03/'05 was better than Chad, Quincy was better than Chad, Bollinger was better, Clemens, etc...

 

you guys do crack me up though.  if you paid attention rather than try to insult you might learn something so your future arguments won't be so moronic.

I'm not sure anyone ever said better.  The initial argument was that within seasons where Chad got hurt, he was really no better than his replacement.  And, I'm not talking about one specific post.  We've been through this before, your entire argumentative strategy is based on circular logic and generally that you're right because you say you are.  Just like the kid in Big Daddy, "I WIN!!!"

No one's learning from you, because you don't actually make points that follow any logic.  You assume a conclusion, then you manipulate the data to support it, and ignore the mountains of data that contradict your conclusions.

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46 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nothing gets the juices flowing like a good old Chadwick debate, am i right @Bleedin Green and @gEYno?

The good old days...

All this wonderful reminiscing and I still dont want Chadwick, if you're keeping notes. 

For a brief moment I was looking to dig back up some of the old ACM logos, as it just seemed appropriate, but after about 30 seconds of that I gave up.

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17 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not sure anyone ever said better.  The initial argument was that within seasons where Chad got hurt, he was really no better than his replacement.  And, I'm not talking about one specific post.  We've been through this before, your entire argumentative strategy is based on circular logic and generally that you're right because you say you are.  Just like the kid in Big Daddy, "I WIN!!!"

No one's learning from you, because you don't actually make points that follow any logic.  You assume a conclusion, then you manipulate the data to support it, and ignore the mountains of data that contradict your conclusions.

you can think what you want to think, if you really think there was no difference that says it all about you.

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5 hours ago, gEYno said:

The shoulder injury was the greatest thing that ever happened to Chad's legacy.  Because of it, you have a handful of people remembering him fondly, thinking about what only could have been, and making outlandish claims like he's the "next Joe Montana."  Had he never gotten hurt, there's no reason to believe that the last game we saw him healthy, at Oakland, wasn't his future, and any defense that was good enough to shut down the middle of the field would stop him in his tracks.

In 2004, the Jets started 6-1 and were the best teamin the nfl.  They had some monster offensive games scoring 31, 34, 41 points in 3 of those games.

In the 8th game the shoulder blew out and he was never the same.

But this nonsense of "oakland figured him out" is the dumbest thing i ever heard.  The 1st half of 2004 proves that.  He had a bad game, on the road, against a super bowl team.  He wasnt "figured out".

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22 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you can think what you want to think, if you really think there was no difference that says it all about you.

It's not a matter of what I think... It's a matter of what the records actually indicate, as BG pointed out.  You claim victory in arguments because you value your subjective opinion over facts.  The facts simply don't agree with you opinion in this, and many other cases.

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13 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

In 2004, the Jets started 6-1 and were the best teamin the nfl.  They had some monster offensive games scoring 31, 34, 41 points in 3 of those games.

In the 8th game the shoulder blew out and he was never the same.

But this nonsense of "oakland figured him out" is the dumbest thing i ever heard.  The 1st half of 2004 proves that.  He had a bad game, on the road, against a super bowl team.  He wasnt "figured out".

In 2004, the Jets were 22nd in Passing and 3rd in Rushing (4th in YPA) and 4th in total defense and PPG.

Tell me more about how it was the quarterback?

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Chad had an ok career with the jets.  Made the playoffs a couple times.  Once Belichick put the book out on him it was over and the injuries were non stop with him
 
Would I take him over any qb we had last 5-6 years? Yes but all of our qb's have been horrible


Yep. Not being the ugliest girl at the dance amongst a bunch of other ugly girls does not make the least ugly one pretty.
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17 minutes ago, gEYno said:

It's not a matter of what I think... It's a matter of what the records actually indicate, as BG pointed out.  You claim victory in arguments because you value your subjective opinion over facts.  The facts simply don't agree with you opinion in this, and many other cases.

but the records don't indicate that, you tried to manipulate it to say that but again everything isn't black and white.  Just look at 2004, yeah we were 2-1 w/o him.

 

we lost to Baltimore when Carter couldn't execute down the stretch and one of our 2 TD drives began at the Baltimore 12 in 20-17 OT loss.

 

we then faced 3-6 Cleveland(who would end up 4-12).  we would win 10-7

 

we then went to Arizona to face the 4-6 cards(who would end up 6-10).  we would win 13-3

 

in 3 games w/o him we scored a total of 43 points and we allowed a total of 30 points.  you can win a lot of games allowing 10 PPG, it would be hard to win many averaging 14 PPG.

 

But yeah this proves Chad was meaningless to our success.

 

2002 we were 1-3 w/o him, finished winning the division but it was all coincidence.  By the way, we scored 37 points TOTAL in those 4 games.  In one game at SD we scored 37 points w/ Chad but again all coincidence.

 

2005 he barely played but we were 1-1 in his 2 healthy games and had a chance to win the 3rd game where he came BACK into the game w/ a torn rotator cuff and got us to OT.

 

2007 we were horrible all the way around but it shows how we didn't need Chad!

 

how about 2008?  we let Chad go and he takes 1 win team to div title while we get the great Brett favre and can't even make the playoffs w/ our creampuff sched.

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This is wrong on so many levels.  For starters, you're attempting to compare different seasons to each other, which has absolutely no legitimacy to it whatsoever.  The only matter of relevance that could actually show what value he provided over his backups is how the same team performed with different QBs, which has already been proven to be very comparable.  The Jets' record with him at QB in 2002 doesn't have any relevance to whether he was a better QB in 2009 than Henne, because that was quite definitively proven otherwise, and the 7 years apart on different teams could not possibly make those numbers any less relevant to each other, yet that's what you're trying to do anyway.
Secondly, you are crediting Chad for any success that was had by the teams in any seasons that he played at all, but then not counting them for other QBs who played in those same seasons, despite counting those games in their records.  That makes those statements 100% pure lies.  You are then laughably trying to use numbers when he was nothing but a backup in 2010.  By that logic, you should be counting the Jets 2000 and 2001 records and accomplishments for the "others", but that doesn't fit your agenda, so of course you didn't.
You're seriously all over the map with this, because over the course of the argument you're trying to make, which basis doesn't even have any validity to it to begin with, you are contradicting your own supposed "logic" by counting the same seasons completely differently from one moment to the next.  In the end, all you really did here is ignore the numbers that had already proved you wrong, because nothing you said actually disputed any of it even slightly.


A simple "GFY" would have sufficed here. But I admire you for trying to talk some sense into this brick wall that is nyjunc.
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15 minutes ago, gEYno said:

In 2004, the Jets were 22nd in Passing and 3rd in Rushing (4th in YPA) and 4th in total defense and PPG.

Tell me more about how it was the quarterback?

you like out of context rankings, don't you?

10 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Didn't we also have an historically easy early schedule that year?

we had historically easy sched in 2015, how did that playoff run work out?  we had historically easy sched in 2008, how did that playoff run work out?

 

by the way, we did face 12-4 SD week 2 on the road and beat them and our only lose was a very close loss at Foxboro against the eventual champs.  NE wouldn't lose another game at home until 2005, their last loss before that?  when Chad and the Jets whooped them week 16 of '02 to essentially determine the div champ that year.

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What can I say, it's been kind of an unusually slow day at work.  Besides, these things still pretty much just write themselves even after all those years.  A little trip down memory lane.

I've never known you to take time out of your day to write verbose, vitriolic diatribes about Chad Pennington. That seems so out of character for you.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


A simple "GFY" would have sufficed here. But I admire you for trying to talk some sense into this brick wall that is nyjunc.

 

pay attention and learn son rather than hurl insults.  I know it's hard for you and again I guess UNCW's 2016 season was a complete failure since they didn't win the NCAA title, right?  gutless punk.

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3 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

It also didn't hurt that no one had a scouting report on him yet in '02. Once they did, boy did things change. 

Imo you often see with new Qb's that somehow succeed in the short run that it only lasts until opposing DC's get enough game film and time to figure out his weaknesses.

My recollection was that moment occurred against Oakland, which shut him down by clogging the middle of the field and daring him to throw the out pattern 20 or more yards downfield.  Which he couldn't do.

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42 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

In 2004, the Jets started 6-1 and were the best teamin the nfl.  They had some monster offensive games scoring 31, 34, 41 points in 3 of those games.

In the 8th game the shoulder blew out and he was never the same.

But this nonsense of "oakland figured him out" is the dumbest thing i ever heard.  The 1st half of 2004 proves that.  He had a bad game, on the road, against a super bowl team.  He wasnt "figured out".

Meh.  It's one thing to know how to play an opponent.  It's another to have the right people to play the opponent.

Not everybody had the ability to play the right kind of D against Chad.  But those who did...

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we had historically easy sched in 2015, how did that playoff run work out?  we had historically easy sched in 2008, how did that playoff run work out?

What does any of that have to do with the fact that Pennington wasn't any good? Not that it matters but in '08 we had a one-armed Brett Farve down the stretch. I really don't think Pennington would have won more than 5 games with that roster. In 15 we had that worthless piece of garbage Fitz. 

Would you like to at least attempt to make a valid point?

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you like out of context rankings, don't you?

Looking at an entire season in totality is not "out of context."  It's doubtful, at this point, you even know what context means.

But, we've been through this exercise before.  You scrutinize the Jets to make a point about them, and then call the stats "out of context" and make whatever claim you want to make, but you don't scrutinize the other teams to that degree.  So, in reality, you're the one who's doing things out of context.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Remember when we traded for Favre and cut Chad, and then he signed with the Dolphins, and then they won the division and we missed the playoffs entirely, and jock-sniffers like nyjunc were all "THIS IS WHAT THE JETS GET FOR CUTTING A TRU WARRIER LIKE CHAD PENNINGTON, WATCH THE FINS WIN THE SB NOW, AND I WILL BE ROOTING FOR THEM ALL THE WAY, GO CHAD," and then the Ravens blew into Miami and bent Chad over and rogered him silly for three hours? That was awesome.

nyjunc has posted here that long? wow, i never noticed him until recently... has his content always been absurd?

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