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Dan Quinn


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4 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Unmmm no where in my post did I remotely imply that Quinn hasn't done a better job than Bowles this year and it isn't even close. 

What I was responding to was that we are deficient across the board in key positions.  

Now if you believe that if Quinn were here that Fitzpatrick would have turned into an MVP candidate than we have some debating to do. 

Bowles got the best of Fitz setting records in his first year against weak sched and we still couldn't make the playoffs.  I think if Quinn is our HC we make the playoffs year 1 and contend for playoffs this year.

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16 minutes ago, SMC said:

Plus, Falcons, by going 8-8 last year benefited from a .418 strength of schedule this yearand a QB having an MVP season, and an All-Pro WR

Jets, by going 10-6 last year, had a .518 strength of schedule this year and the worst QB play in the NFL, and the No.1 WR getting into a locker room feud with a guy who drives around high with a 12 year old boy in the back seat.

going 8-8 meant very little to their SOS, that only changes TWO games and they would have had to go undefeated to win the division in 2015.  the 2nd place finish meant they played Green Bay this year and Philadelphia.  

 

our 10-6 was a 2nd place finish just like Atlanta, whether we were 15-1 in 2nd place or 5-11 in 2nd place doesn't change anything.  Our 2 games determined by finishing in 2nd were the Colts and KC.  

 

when we had LR/off field issues under rex it was all rex's fault, why doesn't Bowles get blame for LR/off field issues?

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

don't know, he's a backup but I do know he won a division title in KC and couldn't get an undefeated team to the playoffs in NE.

oh that's the excuse now as if other coaches haven't come in and had some success year 1.  Heck, Adam gase just made the playoffs w/ a much worse franchise.  NE was going nowhere, BB was on the hot seat already and Brady rescued his HC career and that franchise and turned them into a dynasty.

they were 10-5 in games cassel started.  that's 5 more losses than the year before w/ the same team minus the QB against a much easier sched.  if we lose 5 more games next year we'll be 0-16, if NE loses 5 more games next year they will be 9-7, if Miami loses 5 more games next year they will be 5-11, If Atl loses 5 more they will be 6-10. 5 games is a HUGE difference.

Im sorry man but your making silly arguments trying to tell me Belichick somehow is a bad coach. The fact is Him AND Tom Brady make the best team as QB and HC in the history of this game and the only other tandem that's in the same spot were Walsh and Montana and no one else is even in the same zip code . So lets stop the Belichick debate because its a really stupid one and your DEAD WRONG with your... what If's

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Im sorry man but your making silly arguments trying to tell me Belichick somehow is a bad coach. The fact is Him AND Tom Brady make the best team as QB and HC in the history of this game and the only other tandem that's in the same spot were Walsh and Montana and no one else is even in the same zip code . So lets stop the Belichick debate because its a really stupid one and your DEAD WRONG with your... what If's

BB is a GREAT coach but he's a DC somewhere today if Brady doesn't emerge.  Brady gave him time to develop into a great HC, he was a terrible HC prior to Brady.  Brady is the biggest reason for that dynasty, just look at what he can do w/a  Chris Hogan type?  you and I could play WR and he'd win.

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10 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

No coach was choosing us over the Falcons a few years ago.  The prevailing thought when Mike Smith got fired was that the Falcons job was far and away the best job available.  Why? because they had a ton of talent and always seemed to under achieve.  In no way am I taking anything away from Dan Quinn because I do agree you need more than just a franchise QB to win but I think the idea that they didn't want to wait for Quinn was a little saving face.  I think the Jets knew the Falcons were offering him the job and that there was very little chance the Jets could compete with a loaded Falcons roster.  So in the end the Jets took a the sure thing who by all reports was considered just as good if not a better hire than Quinn anyway.

I'm not disagreeing here at all.  But there's too much emphasis being placed on the situation and not enough on the terms.  The Falcons situation is by far better than the Jets. But there is no salary cap for coaches.  Woody could have dealt with this by throwing more money and years on to the table if Quinn was his guy...

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Just now, nyjunc said:

BB is a GREAT coach but he's a DC somewhere today if Brady doesn't emerge.  Brady gave him time to develop into a great HC, he was a terrible HC prior to Brady.  Brady is the biggest reason for that dynasty, just look at what he can do w/a  Chris Hogan type?  you and I could play WR and he'd win.

Im not doubting Brady is a big part of this but he's not all of it. There is a system in place. Belichick keeps pluging in no body players and young no body coaches and turning them into stars they they go elsewhere and fail miserably ever wonder why ?

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12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

they were 10-5 in games cassel started.  that's 5 more losses than the year before w/ the same team minus the QB against a much easier sched.  if we lose 5 more games next year we'll be 0-16, if NE loses 5 more games next year they will be 9-7, if Miami loses 5 more games next year they will be 5-11, If Atl loses 5 more they will be 6-10. 5 games is a HUGE difference.

This logic is so tortured that the ICC just convened a special session.

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11 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Im not doubting Brady is a big part of this but he's not all of it. There is a system in place. Belichick keeps pluging in no body players and young no body coaches and turning them into stars they they go elsewhere and fail miserably ever wonder why ?

that "system" did nothing until Brady became the starter.  That is my point, now the system works b/c they have 15 years of winning, at the time his system was about losing and they had just given Bledsoe a $100 mil extension after the 2000 season so he had no idea what he had in Brady, he won the lottery and was able to become a great HC b/c of it.

 

to answer that question- I know the reason why:  TOM BRADY

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Belichick's "system" is that bend but don't break D.  I don't give him a huge amount of credit for the O, but for the gameplanning, preparation and understanding that the goal is to outscore your opponent.  He knows when he needs a defensive stop or when he only needs to hold the other team to a FG because his team will put up a TD.  Many of these guys seem to fall in love with doing one thing and forget about the overall picture.  That is the headcoaches job.  I am firmly in the pro-Rex camp, but he seemed more worried about stopping the other team than outscoring them.  I understand that D was the way he knew to win, but you still need to score. Mangini never seemed to have anything but the attention to detail and the rules.  Bowles doesn't even seem to have that.

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42 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Denver Oakland Carolina 2x Tampa 2 x N.O. 2 x Arizona Seattle Philly ...the only weak teams on Atlants schedule were SD LA and San fran the other teams could beat anyone on any given day so what was so easy about that schedule ?

Also how people can bash Quinn for going 8-8 then Improving to the second seed in the NFC and heading to the SB is insane. His team Improved and he plugged holes and made changes and brought in players to fill spots for situational football. The Jets went 10-6 and dropped off the face of the earth tough schedule or not they played a lot of the same teams Atlanta did and looked like a High School team at times . Not sure how people whjo though the Jets would be terrible in Bowles first year would be screaming at and 8-8 record if Quinn was here.

I'm not bashing Quinn.  I think he's a good HC.  But the point is that he has the luxury of having Ryan and Julio, and the Jets don't.  That changes everything.

It's all about the QB.  Look what happened to Oakland when Carr went down.  That team wins 13 games with him.  He gets hurt, they win 12 and do nothing in playoffs.  Look at the Texans loss to Pats.  Oz is awful (whom they paid $18 mil to because good QBs are so hard to find so they gambled on him, and he sucks) and loses the game.

People are even talking about Alex Smith as a possible QB replacement?  Why?  Supply and demand.

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4 minutes ago, SMC said:

I'm not bashing Quinn.  I think he's a good HC.  But the point is that he has the luxury of having Ryan and Julio, and the Jets don't.  That changes everything.

It's all about the QB.  Look what happened to Oakland when Carr went down.  That team wins 13 games with him.  He gets hurt, they win 12 and do nothing in playoffs.  Look at the Texans loss to Pats.  Oz is awful (whom they paid $18 mil to because good QBs are so hard to find so they gambled on him, and he sucks) and loses the game.

People are even talking about Alex Smith as a possible QB replacement?  Why?  Supply and demand.

Teams dont get better, they get better QB play.

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1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

My point isn't that our roster has problems. We all know it's bad.  I am just saying that Woody had the choice to make to hire Bowles or take his chance he could entice Quinn to come here.  In hindsight it looks like he made the wrong choice.

And, while no particular fan of Bowles, I'm not sure he did, because I don't think that Quinn is really the difference maker.  Atlanta has been a good team for a while, yes, this year they've gone above where they've been, but it's not like he took a bad team and got them to the super bowl.  I think it's much more likely that Bowles takes Atlanta to the Super Bowl this year than that Quinn makes the Jets even decent this year.

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Just now, gEYno said:

And, while no particular fan of Bowles, I'm not sure he did, because I don't think that Quinn is really the difference maker.  Atlanta has been a good team for a while, yes, this year they've gone above where they've been, but it's not like he took a bad team and got them to the super bowl.  I think it's much more likely that Bowles takes Atlanta to the Super Bowl this year than that Quinn makes the Jets even decent this year.

Yep. Quinn went to a microwave team. Just pop it in and it's ready. 

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1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm not disagreeing here at all.  But there's too much emphasis being placed on the situation and not enough on the terms.  The Falcons situation is by far better than the Jets. But there is no salary cap for coaches.  Woody could have dealt with this by throwing more money and years on to the table if Quinn was his guy...

ehh it's always easy to blame Woody for being cheap, hindsight is 20/20 none of us were in the room for the interview process, not like Quinn had a history of success they were both highly regarded d-coordinators that were pretty much on the same level as far as past success is concerned.  At least Bowles had experience as a HC in the past.  Quinn seemed to just be coming off a couple of years in Seattle where the thought was he was just maintaining what was already a good defense.

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26 minutes ago, gEYno said:

And, while no particular fan of Bowles, I'm not sure he did, because I don't think that Quinn is really the difference maker.  Atlanta has been a good team for a while, yes, this year they've gone above where they've been, but it's not like he took a bad team and got them to the super bowl.  I think it's much more likely that Bowles takes Atlanta to the Super Bowl this year than that Quinn makes the Jets even decent this year.

NO FUKKIN WAY!   Bowles cant get a teenage boy excited about going to a strip club.  My desk top has more enthusiasm than Bubba Gump.

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1 hour ago, SMC said:

I'm not bashing Quinn.  I think he's a good HC.  But the point is that he has the luxury of having Ryan and Julio, and the Jets don't.  That changes everything.

It's all about the QB.  Look what happened to Oakland when Carr went down.  That team wins 13 games with him.  He gets hurt, they win 12 and do nothing in playoffs.  Look at the Texans loss to Pats.  Oz is awful (whom they paid $18 mil to because good QBs are so hard to find so they gambled on him, and he sucks) and loses the game.

People are even talking about Alex Smith as a possible QB replacement?  Why?  Supply and demand.

SMC I agree, a lot of it is about the QB because if you don't have one its difficult to win in this league no matter how good a team you have. That does not however mean its ALL about the QB even though he is the most important player on the field . There are times when your QB simply gets shut down hell we did it to Brady and Manning in consecutive games in the playoffs no less. Yesterday Aaron Rodgers was getting hammered he was doing all he could but his defense could not stop the bleeding to give the offense time to get in sync and his WR"s could not hold onto the football and his OL forgot how to pass protect. Certainly that was not Rodgers fault but sometimes other players on the team need to step up. We saw this first hand when our team made the AFCCG 2 years in a row with bad QB play during the season the team stepped up and our QB played decent in the playoffs. Certainly its why Peyton Manning didn't win 5 SB's with Indy he didn't have particularly good coaches and he had no defense to speak of but he was good enough to beat all the teams he was supposed to beat to get to the playoffs... when things drastically change. The one year he did win the SB in Indy the Defense finally decided to defend the run in the playoffs or they would have faltered there as well and his SB in Denver was 100 % defense because Peyton was MIA as was most of the offense.

FWIW I didn't mean to insinuate you were bashing Quinn I was pointing to others when I mentioned that :)

 

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47 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

All the"genius" coaches coincidentally have hall of fame QBs. I'm sure bellichick would have a bunch of super bowl wins with Fitzpatrick and Geno....

Phil Jackson is a genius also until he is stuck with Carmelo instead of Jordan, pippen, Kobe and Shaq.. 

Belichick was not handed Brady he actually drafted and developed Brady. He instilled into Brady the Parcells philosophy of not turning the ball over and making stupid plays that cost your team. What he got in return was a very patient Brady who would rather throw the ball away then risk damaging interceptions. Brady is one of the most selfless QB's I have ever seen and that's why he wins and that's why the Pats are the best team in football for what amounts to a decade and a half.

If anyone on this forum thinks the same outcome would have happened for Brady if he was drafted by the Browns in the 6th round they are lying or nuts.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Teams dont get better, they get better QB play.

This is true when you talk about getting a Better QB not just better QB play from the same guy. My point is its not all about the QB . I mean with your logic Atlanta should have never dropped out of contention last year but the fact was their defense stunk while this year it has improved and that's important as well. Aaron Rodgers is the best QB I have ever seen play but yesterday his team fell apart and were out classed certainly not Aarons fault. Green Bays defense stunk and Atlanta's defense stopped the hottest QB in the NFL who was calling all those relentless blitz's and coverages on Rodgers ?  Dan Quinn. Fantastic game plan vs a fantastic QB kind of like ours in 2010 vs Brady and Manning

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9 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

This is true when you talk about getting a Better QB not just better QB play from the same guy. My point is its not all about the QB . I mean with your logic Atlanta should have never dropped out of contention last year but the fact was their defense stunk while this year it has improved and that's important as well. Aaron Rodgers is the best QB I have ever seen play but yesterday his team fell apart and were out classed certainly not Aarons fault. Green Bays defense stunk and Atlanta's defense stopped the hottest QB in the NFL who was calling all those relentless blitz's and coverages on Rodgers ?  Dan Quinn. Fantastic game plan vs a fantastic QB kind of like ours in 2010 vs Brady and Manning

Matt Ryan in 2015 - 66%, 4300, 21 TD's, 16 INT's. 3.4 TD/INT ratio. 7.5 per completion 

Matt Ryan in 2016 - 69%, 4900, 36 TD's, 7 INT's. 7.1 TD/INT ratio. 9.3 per completion

Teams dont get better, they get better QB play. 

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32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Belichick was not handed Brady he actually drafted and developed Brady. He instilled into Brady the Parcells philosophy of not turning the ball over and making stupid plays that cost your team. What he got in return was a very patient Brady who would rather throw the ball away then risk damaging interceptions. Brady is one of the most selfless QB's I have ever seen and that's why he wins and that's why the Pats are the best team in football for what amounts to a decade and a half.

If anyone on this forum thinks the same outcome would have happened for Brady if he was drafted by the Browns in the 6th round they are lying or nuts.

Brady played game 2 in his 2nd year, he didn't develop anything. Brady was underrated based on Mich having to play Drew henson.

Brady would have become great anywhere, BB would be a DC today if not for Brady.

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33 minutes ago, JiF said:

Matt Ryan in 2015 - 66%, 4300, 21 TD's, 16 INT's. 3.4 TD/INT ratio. 7.5 per completion 

Matt Ryan in 2016 - 69%, 4900, 36 TD's, 7 INT's. 7.1 TD/INT ratio. 9.3 per completion

Teams dont get better, they get better QB play. 

That's actually 9.3 yards per attempt, which is ******* insane.

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4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Hoe did Belichick do with Cassel ? Please lets not talk Browns football here or the first year he coached the Pats. Belichick developed Tom Brady and he continues to field a good football team every year,

Matt Cassel is shot now, but he wasn't some scrub.  He made a Pro Bowl with the Chiefs and led them to the playoffs.

 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Belichick was not handed Brady he actually drafted and developed Brady. He instilled into Brady the Parcells philosophy of not turning the ball over and making stupid plays that cost your team. What he got in return was a very patient Brady who would rather throw the ball away then risk damaging interceptions. Brady is one of the most selfless QB's I have ever seen and that's why he wins and that's why the Pats are the best team in football for what amounts to a decade and a half.

If anyone on this forum thinks the same outcome would have happened for Brady if he was drafted by the Browns in the 6th round they are lying or nuts.

 Bellichick coached the browns for like 5 years and failed to develop another Brady or even another Pennington. But all of you guys have amnesia for that half decade of failure.

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Bowles biggest coaching mistake was canceling his Atlanta interview and accepting the jet job.

Look at the drafts. Atlanta GM deserves a ton of credit. So much young talent.  

Better  team, nicer, fans, a really genuine nice person for an owner, a new Stadium and way less media to make up stuff and stir up your fan base .

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