Jump to content

Reliving Dec. 30th, 2007 -- Kansas City Chiefs at New York Jets


ZachEY

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, SMC said:

He was booed in 2007 when he got hurt because (1) he couldn't stay on the field and (2) the team was 1-7 when he was QB.

Again, that has nothing to do with Matt Ryan, because we're talking about him being healthy (which he has been) and not sucking (which he doesn't do).  If Matt Ryan was an "egg back there" and led the team to a 1-7 record as a 31 year old (Ryan's age this season BTW), he would've been booed too.

Think about that.  In Chad's 31st year, he got hurt again and was 1-7 as a starter.  In Ryan's 31st year, he led his team to the SB.  Understand the difference?

he was booed at HOME WEEK ONE so 1-7 had nothing to do w/ anything.

 

2 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

How do we know Jet fans run good QBs out of town? We dont ever have good QBs

we have run good coaches, GMs, OCs, QBs, etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 368
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not going to attempt to justifying any fans cheering any player's injury as being morally correct. The reason was likely not "hate" -- rather, that Mangini wouldn't take him off the field even though, in the absence of throwing TDs, he was throwing picks (if not pick-6's) every week for a month. He had become depressing to watch and we were going nowhere with him.

He was booed in WEE ONE, he had not thrown a pick 6 in that game and the only season he had issues w/ pick sixes was 2007 when the OL was in shambles and he was playing hurt.

we would have had a div title w/ him in 2008 but we needed to be entertained while we lost so er got Favre to hold us back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

#provablefacts

 

it's called logic and paying attention to this fanbase.  I was at every Ken O'brien game from 1990-1992, he was booed almost weekly and yet on Jets MBs he is treated like a god b/c there's a youtube clip of some of his nice deep passes.  I have a great understanding of this fanbase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

if namath had his exact same career in this social media era he would have been run out of town too.  

No QB has been "run out of town" by the Jets fans.  Seriously.  Where are you getting this?  Because of Chad?

Chad was hurt for the 4th time in 2007 and was 1-7.  He went to Miami and had 1 good season (because of the Wildcat) then immediately got HURT again.

Think about this.  You're pining for Chad, but it's only for 1 extra season and that's with the aid of Ricky Williams.  Guess what?  The Jets don't get Favre in 2008, but then Chad is IR'd in 2009, then again in 2010.  What's the use of that?  Chad literally only had 1 year left in his career after the Jets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, SMC said:

But the bolded simply is not reality.  The Jets switch QBs/OCs/HCs/GMs so often because they have all sucked at their respective jobs.  This is not a crazy concept.

If any of them were better at their jobs, they'd still be here. But it all starts with the QB.  Teams don't give up on good QBs because they are such a rare commodity.  Jets were never going to give up on Ryan because he would've been good year-in-year out.

With 1 playoff win in 9 years, what would Tanny do?  He'd draft more WRs and RBs and TEs for Ryan rather than a DL or CB every year.

And the measurables back this up.  Simply put, nyjunc's "alternative facts" do not back it up.  But, Jets fans have never run a QB out of town who's measurable performance wasn't in the bottom 1/3rd of the league.  Jets fans have certainly ran off players who a portion of the fanbase has done a lot of work to rationalize why they don't suck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SMC said:

No QB has been "run out of town" by the Jets fans.  Seriously.  Where are you getting this?  Because of Chad?

Chad was hurt for the 4th time in 2007 and was 1-7.  He went to Miami and had 1 good season (because of the Wildcat) then immediately got HURT again.

Think about this.  You're pining for Chad, but it's only for 1 extra season and that's with the aid of Ricky Williams.  Guess what?  The Jets don't get Favre in 2008, but then Chad is IR'd in 2009, then again in 2010.  What's the use of that?  Chad literally only had 1 year left in his career after the Jets.

it's not about what Chad did, I understand the frustration w/ him being hurt but there was a vocal part of the fanbase that hated him.  I like Woody but his biggest weakness is bowing down to fan pressure and the fans always need a scapegoat.  First it was Vinny then it was Hackett then it was Herm then it was Chad then it was Schottenheimer then it was Tannenbaum then it was Sanchez then it was Rex...  all run out of town.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

FWIW, the general board consensus was that it would be stupid to move up for Ryan.  IIRC, 124 and I liked the idea, most others didn't.  Main topic during the time period was how skinny legs would break and couldn't carry the load. I admit I liked Gholston.  I had only seen the Michigan game and immediately thought he was the kind of player the Jets never sucked enough to draft. 

I wasn't high on Ryan at the time.  I also do something for a living that isn't involved in college scouting, and there's probably a reason for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, nyjunc said:

He was booed in WEE ONE, he had not thrown a pick 6 in that game and the only season he had issues w/ pick sixes was 2007 when the OL was in shambles and he was playing hurt.

we would have had a div title w/ him in 2008 but we needed to be entertained while we lost so er got Favre to hold us back.

more #provablefacts 

The Jets were right to move on from Pennington, just as they were wrong, at the time, to make him the 2nd highest paid NFL player in history as that '04 season began.  And Tannenbaum did that insane extension with Pennington coming off a pretty bad end of the prior season (a season that also began with him injured, of course). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's called logic and paying attention to this fanbase.  I was at every Ken O'brien game from 1990-1992, he was booed almost weekly and yet on Jets MBs he is treated like a god b/c there's a youtube clip of some of his nice deep passes.  I have a great understanding of this fanbase.

It's also called making things up that never actually happened, and treating them as though they were #provablefacts that did happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Finally, this is what this thread is about.  No one seems to want to talk about this great Jets win!

No attention span from some.

We need to discuss how ending the season on a high note carries over to the following season. It helps shape the upcoming offseason with the requisite optimism that a poor regular season so sorely needs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No attention span from some.

We need to discuss how ending the season on a high note carries over to the following season. It helps shape the upcoming offseason with the requisite optimism that a poor regular season so sorely needs. 

That victory really helped Kellen Clemens and Mike Nugent build their Jets careers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Things happen for a reason. If not for that win, we wouldn't have landed the upcoming draft's best pure pass rusher. He got 2 sacks despite going up against Jake Long, you know.

once in a lifetime athleticism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's not about what Chad did, I understand the frustration w/ him being hurt but there was a vocal part of the fanbase that hated him.  I like Woody but his biggest weakness is bowing down to fan pressure and the fans always need a scapegoat.  First it was Vinny then it was Hackett then it was Herm then it was Chad then it was Schottenheimer then it was Tannenbaum then it was Sanchez then it was Rex...  all run out of town.

Run out of town?  I think almost all those guys stayed longer than they should have and I am probably the most patient guy here.  Vinny was superfluous since your boy Chad was ready.  Herm outstayed his welcome by plenty and had the team fistfighting on the sideline his final season.  Schottenheimer should have gone with Mangini.  Tannenbaum probably should have too.  Rex should have gone with Tannenbaum.  Sanchez?  He certainly wasn't run out of town. 

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I wasn't high on Ryan at the time.  I also do something for a living that isn't involved in college scouting, and there's probably a reason for that.

That was the purpose of the FWIW. 

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

more #provablefacts 

The Jets were right to move on from Pennington, just as they were wrong, at the time, to make him the 2nd highest paid NFL player in history as that '04 season began.  And Tannenbaum did that insane extension with Pennington coming off a pretty bad end of the prior season (a season that also began with him injured, of course). 

I know he probably did the actual contract, but wasn't Bradway GM when that deal was made?

As for this thread?  Go Jets!  J-E-T-S Jets! Jets! Jets!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Run out of town?  I think almost all those guys stayed longer than they should have and I am probably the most patient guy here.  Vinny was superfluous since your boy Chad was ready.  Herm outstayed his welcome by plenty and had the team fistfighting on the sideline his final season.  Schottenheimer should have gone with Mangini.  Tannenbaum probably should have too.  Rex should have gone with Tannenbaum.  Sanchez?  He certainly wasn't run out of town. 

That was the purpose of the FWIW. 

I know he probably did the actual contract, but wasn't Bradway GM when that deal was made?

As for this thread?  Go Jets!  J-E-T-S Jets! Jets! Jets!

You're right. I think I was just in a 2007 mindset due to this thread starter. 

Tannenbaum was the capologist/contracts guy, though, much like what's-her-name is with the Jets right now. Still the boss's doing, so credit should go to Bradway not Tannenbaum for that one.

Go Jets!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, gEYno said:

please, base your opinion on more hypotheticals that are neither provable nor falsifiable.

sure it's hypothetical but it's logical knowing this fanbase.

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

more #provablefacts 

The Jets were right to move on from Pennington, just as they were wrong, at the time, to make him the 2nd highest paid NFL player in history as that '04 season began.  And Tannenbaum did that insane extension with Pennington coming off a pretty bad end of the prior season (a season that also began with him injured, of course). 

considering Miami was 1-15 in 2007 and Chad led them to 11-5 and Favre was the reason we tanked in 2008 I think it's reasonable to assume we win the division.

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's also called making things up that never actually happened, and treating them as though they were #provablefacts that did happen. 

 I have been a part of this fanbase for a long time, I know what I am talking about.  whether you choose to ignore it is on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Run out of town?  I think almost all those guys stayed longer than they should have and I am probably the most patient guy here.  Vinny was superfluous since your boy Chad was ready.  Herm outstayed his welcome by plenty and had the team fistfighting on the sideline his final season.  Schottenheimer should have gone with Mangini.  Tannenbaum probably should have too.  Rex should have gone with Tannenbaum.  Sanchez?  He certainly wasn't run out of town. 

That was the purpose of the FWIW. 

I know he probably did the actual contract, but wasn't Bradway GM when that deal was made?

As for this thread?  Go Jets!  J-E-T-S Jets! Jets! Jets!

None stayed as long as they should have w/ the exception of Vinny.

Herm started looking for new jobs since he knew what was going to happen.  

Schottenheimer did a good job here, the O quickly went downhill after he left.

Tannenbaum had a good plan but one terrible season and he got the boot and now we watch him rebuild Miami to a playoff team for the first time since Chad.

Rex and Tannenbaum should have stayed together many years, Rex as our coach in 2016 and we are contenders instead of missing the playoffs.

Sanchez had one bad season where he lost his OC, Sparano was his new OC, Tebow was brought in, his main weapons were chaz schilens, Stepehn Hill and Clyde gates.  a year later he badly outplayed Geno but b/c we got a new GM who picked Geno he wanted him to start which eventually led to sanchez injury and cost us playoff chance in 2013.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

sure it's hypothetical but it's logical knowing this fanbase.

considering Miami was 1-15 in 2007 and Chad led them to 11-5 and Favre was the reason we tanked in 2008 I think it's reasonable to assume we win the division.

 I have been a part of this fanbase for a long time, I know what I am talking about.  whether you choose to ignore it is on you.

You really don't at all.  You have proven this time and again.

Your biggest out of all your on going evaluation faults is taking one performance metric and applying it to a player or coach you favor and then using the exact same metric to make arguments against players or coaches you do not favor.  You literally do this in almost any ongoing discussion.  Your illogic and inconsistency knows no bounds when it comes to coaches and QBs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol and in 2008 both Matt Ryan, and Chaddy Cakes went 11-5.

Matt Ryan with the 2009, and 2010 Jets team (would have been coached by Mangini), would have been a very interesting thing.  Obviously the Jets still didn't have much WR help in 2009, and probably don't make a move for Braylon if Mangini is the HC, and def don't bring on Holmes in 2010, but I'd assume they would have gotten someone at WR to help Matty Ice out.  Well time to get back to reality, and start thinking about how the 2017 NY Jets will win a barn burner week 17 VS the Miami Dolphins who are resting starters for the playoffs to go 3-13 instead of 2-14 falling from 1st overall pick to 3rd overall pick missing out on the consensus top 2 QB prospects in the 2018 draft that will go 1,2.  Can't Wait!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

You really don't at all.  You have proven this time and again.

Your biggest out of all your on going evaluation faults is taking one performance metric and applying it to a player or coach you favor and then using the exact same metric to make arguments against players or coaches you do not favor.  You literally do this in almost any ongoing discussion.  Your illogic and inconsistency knows no bounds when it comes to coaches and QBs.

I know better than most and certainly better than you.  again, just look at Ken O'Brien.  he took a beating from the fans on a weekly basis yet now he is thought of fondly b/c of some meaningless #s and youtube clips.  

 

I am very consistent actually, it's not my fault some folks aren't smart enough to realize there is a different standard for a Mark Sanchez compared to a Peyton Manning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I know better than most and certainly better than you.  again, just look at Ken O'Brien.  he took a beating from the fans on a weekly basis yet now he is thought of fondly b/c of some meaningless #s and youtube clips.  

 

I am very consistent actually, it's not my fault some folks aren't smart enough to realize there is a different standard for a Mark Sanchez compared to a Peyton Manning.

For a guy that loves the eye test, you are sure hard on Kenny O.  If you watched him throw the ball, you would know why people remember him fondly.  On their best days Chad and Sanchez couldn't throw like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

sure it's hypothetical but it's logical knowing this fanbase.

considering Miami was 1-15 in 2007 and Chad led them to 11-5 and Favre was the reason we tanked in 2008 I think it's reasonable to assume we win the division.

 I have been a part of this fanbase for a long time, I know what I am talking about.  whether you choose to ignore it is on you.

No, it is not reasonable. I can play that game, too. The Jets went 1-7 with a healthy Pennington starting football games in '07. Then in '08 they replaced him with Favre and, prior to his and Jenkins' injuries, started out 8-3 even with Favre just going through the motions so he could eventually get to Minnesota. See how easy/lazy that is to copy the logic you're employing?

Miami went from 1 win to 11 because the defense went from surrendering 27-28 ppg to just under 20 ppg. FFS even the post-Pennington, Kellen Clemens Jets put up 40 points on that '07 Miami defense. The only time the '08 Miami team leaned on Pennington to really put points on the board was against Herm's 2-14 Chiefs (yay!). Every other game Miami surrendered 20 points ended in a Miami loss (sound familiar?). I'll grant you he was much better than Chet Lemon.

It's mighty convenient for you to award Pennington wins for the 2008 Jets' 4 wins when the opponent scored 24-35 points, because that was such the norm with Pennington. Therefore it's totally fair to say we would've still won all those, as well as at least 2 others on top of that.

#provablefacts strikes again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, gEYno said:

Jets Fans -- I thought today would be a good day to relive a great victory in Jets history.

On December 30th, 2007, sitting at 3-12, the New York Jets came in to Kansas City to face the 4-11 Chiefs.

The Jets struck first, early in the second quarter, with a Kellen Clemens pass to Thomas Jones for a 15 yard TD score!

The Chiefs came back with a FG and just before the half, the Jets answered with a field goal of their own, ending the first half at 10-3.

The third quarter was scoreless, as was most of the 4th, until with 3 minutes left, Brodie Croyle hits Jeff Webb for a 26-yard TD score...

The game would head to overtime, when with 9:47 left in the sudden death period, Jets Kicker Mike Nugent lined up for a 43-yard FG for the win.

And here it is, the game winner:

And just like that, the Jets would end their season on a win, finishing at 4-12.

I'm hoping other people can share their memories of this important win in Jets history!!!!!

The Jets did not come into to KC, it was a home game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

sure it's hypothetical but it's logical knowing this fanbase.

The evidence pretty strongly suggests you don't know this fanbase at all.  This fanbase made heroes at of Brett Ratliff and Matt Simms and didn't run out anyone who, by objective measures, wasn't terrible.  The people who you're defending, you're doing so by interjecting your opinion (right or wrong), but the #proveablefacts describe them poorly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

For a guy that loves the eye test, you are sure hard on Kenny O.  If you watched him throw the ball, you would know why people remember him fondly.  On their best days Chad and Sanchez couldn't throw like that.

there's much more to playing QB than throwing the ball.  yes he had as pretty a deep ball as you will ever see but he also took way too many sacks always looking for the deep ball.  I value winning over pretty passes, despite being drafted to a young, talented team coming off a title game app he never started a single playoff win in his career yet his backup won one when Ken was benched.

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, it is not reasonable. I can play that game, too. The Jets went 1-7 with a healthy Pennington starting football games in '07. Then in '08 they replaced him with Favre and, prior to his and Jenkins' injuries, started out 8-3 even with Favre just going through the motions so he could eventually get to Minnesota. See how easy/lazy that is to copy the logic you're employing?

They went from 1 win to 11 because the defense went from surrendering 27-28 ppg to just under 20 ppg. FFS even the post-Pennington, Kellen Clemens Jets put up 40 points on that '07 Miami defense. The only time the '08 Miami team leaned on Pennington to really put points on the board was against Herm's 2-14 Chiefs (yay!). Every other game Miami surrendered 20 points ended in a Miami loss (sound familiar?).

It's mighty convenient for you to award Pennington wins for the 2008 Jets' 4 wins when the opponent scored 24-35 points, because that was such the norm with Pennington. Therefore it's totally fair to say we would've still won all those, as well as at least 2 others on top of that.

#provablefacts strikes again!

if you watched Favre during that 8-3 stretch you'd understand he did very little and we probably should have been 10-1. he was outplayed by some bad QBs.

 

so a QB protecting the ball, leading his O, making good decisions has no impact on a defense? you know the Miami D was ranked 23rd in 2007 and 15th in 2008.  You also know that in 2007 that Miami turned the ball over 29 times while in 2008 they turned it over 13 times.  think that makes any difference?

 

let's look at the losses, shall we?

 

NE: lost 19-10, INT set up NE's only TD where they started at our 31 yd line in 19-10 loss.  Chad couldn't have made a difference?  we win w/ Chad.

at SD: scoreboard looks bad, how would we have scored 48 pts to keep up w/ SD?  except when you realize Favre/O was a major player in that score.we got a pick 6 of our own early to take a 7-0 lead, then D held SD to FG for 7-3 lead.  Thomas Jones fumbles to give SD ball at our 16 then we trail 10-7.  then Favre throws his own pick 6 and all of a sudden we are down 17-7.  Leon returned ensuing KO to SD 5 and we scored to make it 17-14. D gives up TD, 24-14 then favre throws another INT and the game was essentially over.  Chad could have kept us in that game but we probably lose that one.

 

at Oak: in 5 qtrs he leads our O to 13 points against a pitiful Oak team.  

Den: lost 34-17, 34 is a lot of points but 7 came on fumble return and INt set up another TD.

at SF: lost 24-14, Chad can't lead us to 25? another 0 TD 1 INT game for Favre, another fumble return for TD so D really only gave up 17.

at Sea: Favre led us to whopping 3 points w/ 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

at Miami: take Chad off Miami and give him to us and we win instantly but we lost 24-17 w/ another pick 6 as Favre threw 1 TD and 3 INTs.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The evidence pretty strongly suggests you don't know this fanbase at all.  This fanbase made heroes at of Brett Ratliff and Matt Simms and didn't run out anyone who, by objective measures, wasn't terrible.  The people who you're defending, you're doing so by interjecting your opinion (right or wrong), but the #proveablefacts describe them poorly.

heroes for 5 minutes, every fanbase loves the backup QB when they are struggling. remember Matt Simms, Kellen Clemens, Ray Lucas, etc... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW - I remember 90% of the board hating Matt Ryan as a prospect and openly mocking Mike Mayock for his ties to Boston College when he was the loudest analyst pounding the table for Ryan.  I can also remember many people saying that the only reason why the Falcons were interested in Ryan was because he was squeaky clean white kid from a Catholic School and the Falcons needed to remove the stain that Vick left on the organization.

I also recall this board openly and almost unanimously blasting Matty Ice over years for being a big game choking pusswah. 

That said, it is fun to look back and reflect on how we won a meaningless game in Dec. keeping us from a prospect nobody wanted. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...