Reliving Dec. 30th, 2007 -- Kansas City Chiefs at New York Jets

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Yup.  I can admit when I'm wrong or make a mistake.  You always tell others to learn something.  Well, here... Learn from that.  Teachable moment.

lol, awesome... 

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Yup.  I can admit when I'm wrong or make a mistake.  You always tell others to learn something.  Well, here... Learn from that.  Teachable moment.

when you post something where I am wrong I will admit it, keep trying though.  it may happen some day.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

when you post something where I am wrong I will admit it, keep trying though.  it may happen some day.

http://forums.jetnation.com/profile/7322-nyjunc/content/

[RutgersJetFan]

I actually enjoy junc's posts. There is a real use-it-or-lose-it aspect to analyzing all the different types of logical fallacies because there's something like over 100. It's hard to remember every single one of them and his posts keep me on my toes in that regard.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I actually enjoy junc's posts. There is a real use-it-or-lose-it aspect to analyzing all the different types of logical fallacies because there's something like over 100. It's hard to remember every single one of them and his posts keep me on my toes in that regard.

Beyond the circular logic, there's a mehta circle that involves using a logical fallacy --> patting self on back --> using another logical fallacy.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Beyond the circular logic, there's a mehta circle that involves using a logical fallacy --> patting self on back --> using another logical fallacy.

I don't pay myself on the back, you just make me look much smarter than I actually am.

[ZachEY]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I don't pay myself on the back, you just make me look much smarter than I actually am.

You are literally the walking embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Matt Ryan would have been run out of town 5 years ago, 

this is so true 

Matt Ryan's playoff career before last season was atrocious 

There's no way he'd still be here. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

this is so true 

Matt Ryan's playoff career before last season was atrocious 

There's no way he'd still be here. 

Do you have any evidence we've run people out of town who put up near the top of the league passing numbers in the regular season and have not won in playoffs?  One example?

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, shawn306 said:

I soooooo disagree with this. Ryan would have been run out of town for not winning any playoff games on the road.

There were alot folks here laughing at Matt Ryan when the Jets went down there with Geno Smith and beat the Falcons.

He finally had his break through this year and will most llikely be the MVP of the league in what his 7th, 8th year in the league ? I don't think Jets fans would have put up with waiting that long. 

This just proves that fans do let a QB develop, my god Hackenberg is already a bust & he hasn't even played yet,lol. Actually, this gives me hope even if Hackenberg or a guy we take in 2018 struggles a bit. It takes time to be an expert at the position.

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is so true 

Matt Ryan's playoff career before last season was atrocious 

There's no way he'd still be here. 

The thread directly adjacent to this one involves people being legitimately, unironically wistful for Chad Pennington. This ******* fanbase would have put Matt Ryan in the Ring of Honor after his first preseason game.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The thread directly adjacent to this one involves people being legitimately, unironically wistful for Chad Pennington. This ******* fanbase would have put Matt Ryan in the Ring of Honor after his first preseason game.

Same fan base who referred to Ryan Fitzpatrick as a "Conquering Hero". 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Same fan base who referred to Ryan Fitzpatrick as a "Conquering Hero". 

In fairness, that was one guy... He just did it a lot.  Despite it not catching on.

 

@Jetsfan80

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Same fan base who referred to Ryan Fitzpatrick as a "Conquering Hero". 

until he choked w/ the playoffs on the line and then was hated.  Matt Ryan is obviously much better but if he went 9 years w/ 1 playoff win he wouldn't have had a chance at a 10th season here.

[SMC]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is so true 

Matt Ryan's playoff career before last season was atrocious 

There's no way he'd still be here. 

This has no basis in any reality, our own or in the multiverse.

[bitonti]

28 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Do you have any evidence we've run people out of town who put up near the top of the league passing numbers in the regular season and have not won in playoffs?  One example?

 

That's a very specific question. But I can give you an example of a quarterback who is the winningest playoff QB in franchise history who was run out of town. 

[David Harris]

5 minutes ago, SMC said:

This has no basis in any reality, our own or in the multiverse.

Agreed.  We pined for Ryan Fitzpatrick to get resigned because we got a faint wisp of stable QB play for like a minute and we wanted to sign him to a 3 year deal.

We'd have been just fine with Matt Ryan's career here.  We would have griped as Atlanta has questioning whether he could win big games.  That criticism was deserved until right now. But had we simply not won a meaningless OT game in 2007 against the Chiefs Matt Ryan would have been our answer at QB for a decade or two.

Lesson I wish everybody would get, it's good to tank when you suck.

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, SMC said:

This has no basis in any reality, our own or in the multiverse.

it's the Ed Reed/Bryan Thomas thing all over again 

but what people don't want to face is that the Jets would have ruined Ed Reed. 

Matt Ryan would have been crucified in the NY media after his 3rd playoff loss. they lost 24-2 to the NY Giants and didn't score an offensive point. 

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, JiF said:

Same fan base who referred to Ryan Fitzpatrick as a "Conquering Hero". 

 

27 minutes ago, gEYno said:

In fairness, that was one guy... He just did it a lot.  Despite it not catching on.

 

@Jetsfan80

 

[David Harris]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's the Ed Reed/Bryan Thomas thing all over again 

but what people don't want to face is that the Jets would have ruined Ed Reed. 

Matt Ryan would have been crucified in the NY media after his 3rd playoff loss. they lost 24-2 to the NY Giants and didn't score an offensive point. 

Lol, so every single NFL player could not succeed here so there is absolutely zero hope. If you really feel this way then you should honestly stop being a fan.

i get we eat our own and have a self defeating culture but you're taking this to an extreme

[bitonti]

Just now, David Harris said:

Lol, so every single NFL player could not succeed here so there is absolutely zero hope. If you really feel this way then you should honestly stop being a fan.

i get we eat our own and have a self defeating culture but you're taking this to an extreme

 

That's not what I said. What I said was very specific after the 3rd playoff loss, when the only points Atlanta mustered was a Safety, we'd have run Matt Ryan out of town on a spit. 

[SMC]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's the Ed Reed/Bryan Thomas thing all over again 

but what people don't want to face is that the Jets would have ruined Ed Reed. 

Matt Ryan would have been crucified in the NY media after his 3rd playoff loss. they lost 24-2 to the NY Giants and didn't score an offensive point. 

Again, your take has no basis in fact.  It's pure conjecture based on a false narrative.

Matt Ryan might have been criticized in the media for playoff losses, but that does not mean he would have been "run out of town", which is absurd.  The Jets have never run a good QB out of town because they haven't had one for a sustained period of time, which Ryan's 9 years.

As mentioned, the way the likes of Vinny and Chad are deified by some Jet fans, there would be a statue outside of Metlife Stadium of Matt Ryan.  Heck, if the media tried to criticize him for the playoffs, there would be Jet fans sending angry tweets, calling radio stations, etc. complaining about the negative press.

Lastly, as to your Ed Reed/Bryan Thomas point--Thomas sucked.  End of story.  Reed's talent wins out.  The same as Revis's talent won out and the Jets didn't "ruin him".  The Jets didn't "ruin" Brick or Mangold.  Talent wins out.

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

That's a very specific question. But I can give you an example of a quarterback who is the winningest playoff QB in franchise history who was run out of town. 

And that Quarterback was the league leader in turnovers per game, and in the bottom of the league in just about every measurable both advanced and standard.  If you want to make a pro-Sanchez argument, fine.  But, you should also acknowledge that the majority of the data suggests he was a very bad QB, despite having a positive post season record.  His NFL career post-Jets has done very little to demonstrate that the Jets (or the fans) were wrong.

Now, as for my opinion, I think, alternatively, Jets fans would kill literally everyone else, from coaches to towel boys, and continue to suggest that Ryan needed more help.  We've seen it with much worse QBs than him.

[SMC]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

That's not what I said. What I said was very specific after the 3rd playoff loss, when the only points Atlanta mustered was a Safety, we'd have run Matt Ryan out of town on a spit. 

After 3 playoff losses the narrative would be "Matt Ryan needs more weapons to get over the hump."

Seriously, Bit.  You're being ridiculous.  Ryan is a 4 time pro bowler (3 prior to this season).  The Jets haven't had a a QB make the pro bowl this century.

For a team that hasn't won a SB in nearly 50 years and a good QB for a sustained period for just as long, it's stupid to claim that the Jets would've gotten rid of a multi-pro bowl QB because he lost 3 playoff games.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

 Matt Ryan might have been criticized in the media for playoff losses, but that does not mean he would have been "run out of town", which is absurd.  The Jets have never run a good QB out of town because they haven't had one for a sustained period of time, which Ryan's 9 years. 

 

The key phrase is "good QB" he's considered that now but there was a time when Matt Ryan was considered fools gold 

We aren't a fanbase that has multi-year faith in players or coaches. We demand someone get fired every damn year.

 

had the JEts drafted him, Matt Ryan would have not made it to this point as a Jets player the whole time. We'd  have turned on him, it's completely predictable. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, SMC said:

After 3 playoff losses the narrative would be "Matt Ryan needs more weapons to get over the hump." 

1

the narrative would have been this a$$hole couldn't score a single offensive point, he's lost 3 playoff games, get rid of him 

Perhaps you are imagining a different, more understanding fanbase. 

[CanadaSteve]

God these posts get annoying.

Yeah, we won a game 5 years ago that cost us the potential in drafting a player who you now have the luxury of seeing 9 years of his work.

 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Now, as for my opinion, I think, alternatively, Jets fans would kill literally everyone else, from coaches to towel boys, and continue to suggest that Ryan needed more help.  We've seen it with much worse QBs than him.

 

Along those lines, Matt Ryan wasn't truly dominant until they acquired Julio Jones.

but that only raises more questions, like would this franchise be ballsy enough to trade up to get Julio Jones? 
 

[SMC]

Just now, bitonti said:

The key phrase is "good QB" he's considered that now but there was a time when Matt Ryan was considered fools gold 

We aren't a fanbase that has multi-year faith in players or coaches. We demand someone get fired every damn year.

 

had the JEts drafted him, Matt Ryan would have not made it to this point as a Jets player the whole time. We'd  have turned on him, it's completely predictable. 

The bolded sentence is 100% untrue.  Ryan made the pro bowl in his 3rd season, 5th, 7th and 9th seasons.  He's ALWAYS been considered good.  It's now that he is considered great and is the likely MVP.

Jets' aren't a fanbase with multi-year faith in players or coaches?  WTF are you talking about?  Chad hasn't been on the Jets for nearly 10 years and there is a thread about him!

I'm flabbergasted by statements.  Look at reality and the Jets having to draft a QB every year.  And you say the Jets fan would have turned on essentially a perennial pro-bowl QB?  Insane.

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Matt Ryan would have been run out of town 5 years ago, Jet fans only settle for the best and would never have been able to wait 10 years for his first SB appearance.

Your pussyhat is showing, snowflake.

SAR I

[SMC]

34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

That's a very specific question. But I can give you an example of a quarterback who is the winningest playoff QB in franchise history who was run out of town. 

I'm the biggest Sanchez fan out there, hence this picture

But Sanchez was a turnover machine.  That's why he was no longer with the Jets.  And when he went to the perfect situation in Philly?  He turned the ball over a ton.  And with Dallas?  He turned it over when he got a chance as well.  Sanchez stopped winning games and continued to turn the ball over.  That's why he not with the Jets and not starting anywhere else.  If Sanchez was as good as Matt Ryan he'd still be the Jets starter.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Along those lines, Matt Ryan wasn't truly dominant until they acquired Julio Jones.

but that only raises more questions, like would this franchise be ballsy enough to trade up to get Julio Jones? 
 

While true, even pre-Jones, he was better than anyone we've trotted out there at the position in recent history, and maybe ever.

I mean, didn't we Julio Jones trade our way up to your favorite bowling ball with butcher knives?

[shawn306]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Crying Jordan always funny

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

FWIW - I remember 90% of the board hating Matt Ryan as a prospect and openly mocking Mike Mayock for his ties to Boston College when he was the loudest analyst pounding the table for Ryan.  I can also remember many people saying that the only reason why the Falcons were interested in Ryan was because he was squeaky clean white kid from a Catholic School and the Falcons needed to remove the stain that Vick left on the organization.

I also recall this board openly and almost unanimously blasting Matty Ice over years for being a big game choking pusswah. 

That said, it is fun to look back and reflect on how we won a meaningless game in Dec. keeping us from a prospect nobody wanted. 

 

Yep, Hindsight is all 20/20 and stuff.

[Bleedin Green]

I make tongue in cheek comment that Ryan would have failed here, because Jets suck, and therefore he would be required to suck as well. Ya know... just because.  A real argument then somehow ensues on that topic.  So... yeah.

I also bet Gholston would have been a dominant pass rusher that broke records and changed NFL defenses league-wide if he were not drafted by the Jets.  Why not, right?