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Reliving Dec. 30th, 2007 -- Kansas City Chiefs at New York Jets


ZachEY
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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

there's much more to playing QB than throwing the ball.  yes he had as pretty a deep ball as you will ever see but he also took way too many sacks always looking for the deep ball.  I value winning over pretty passes, despite being drafted to a young, talented team coming off a title game app he never started a single playoff win in his career yet his backup won one when Ken was benched.

if you watched Favre during that 8-3 stretch you'd understand he did very little and we probably should have been 10-1. he was outplayed by some bad QBs.

 

so a QB protecting the ball, leading his O, making good decisions has no impact on a defense? you know the Miami D was ranked 23rd in 2007 and 15th in 2008.  You also know that in 2007 that Miami turned the ball over 29 times while in 2008 they turned it over 13 times.  think that makes any difference?

 

let's look at the losses, shall we?

 

NE: lost 19-10, INT set up NE's only TD where they started at our 31 yd line in 19-10 loss.  Chad couldn't have made a difference?  we win w/ Chad.

at SD: scoreboard looks bad, how would we have scored 48 pts to keep up w/ SD?  except when you realize Favre/O was a major player in that score.we got a pick 6 of our own early to take a 7-0 lead, then D held SD to FG for 7-3 lead.  Thomas Jones fumbles to give SD ball at our 16 then we trail 10-7.  then Favre throws his own pick 6 and all of a sudden we are down 17-7.  Leon returned ensuing KO to SD 5 and we scored to make it 17-14. D gives up TD, 24-14 then favre throws another INT and the game was essentially over.  Chad could have kept us in that game but we probably lose that one.

 

at Oak: in 5 qtrs he leads our O to 13 points against a pitiful Oak team.  

Den: lost 34-17, 34 is a lot of points but 7 came on fumble return and INt set up another TD.

at SF: lost 24-14, Chad can't lead us to 25? another 0 TD 1 INT game for Favre, another fumble return for TD so D really only gave up 17.

at Sea: Favre led us to whopping 3 points w/ 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

at Miami: take Chad off Miami and give him to us and we win instantly but we lost 24-17 w/ another pick 6 as Favre threw 1 TD and 3 INTs.

 

 

Lolwut? Miami's D - more correctly, and more importantly, points against - was 30th in 2007 and 9th in 2008. Jesse Chatman was their lead ball carrier, as Ricky was out of football I think, and Ronnie Brown missed most of the season as well. There were so many changes on that team, and you simplistically reduce it to No Chad Then Chad. They even went with a gimmick offense with Brown/Ricky to hide Pennington as much as possible. It even worked for a bit, in part because it was so unconventional, not because of PenningtonProwess. 

Beyond that, you are still crediting Pennington with automatic wins for each win we did get, no matter how many points were required to secure those wins, as though it actually works like that.

Now that's what I call fantasy football. 

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23 minutes ago, SMC said:

  If Sanchez was as good as Matt Ryan he'd still be the Jets starter.

 

How many OC's have the Jets employed since 2007?  How many run first HC's? 

You guys want to live in this alternate reality where Matt Ryan is the Jets draft pick and everything else about his career was exactly the same. 

Let's be real there's a decent chance Matt Ryan gets ruined if he comes here. Cause pretty much everything gets ruined here. Matt Ryan wouldn't make everything about Jets better. Maybe the Jets would weigh on his career like a pair of concrete boots. 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

How many OC's have the Jets employed since 2007?  How many run first HC's? 

You guys want to live in this alternate reality where Matt Ryan is the Jets draft pick and everything else about his career was exactly the same. 

Let's be real there's a decent chance Matt Ryan gets ruined if he comes here. Cause pretty much everything gets ruined here. Matt Ryan wouldn't make everything about Jets better. Maybe the Jets would weigh on his career like a pair of concrete boots. 

Or, maybe it's just that the things that have come here, have sucked to begin with.

Revis, Mangold, D'Brick, and Harris all didn't get ruined by being Jets.

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26 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I mean, didn't we Julio Jones trade our way up to your favorite bowling ball with butcher knives?

 

that's kind of my point. When the Falcons make that deal it works. But when the Jets make that deal it turns out to be Drob. 

Matt Ryan wouldn't have saved the Jets. The Jets would have ruined Matt Ryan. 

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Just now, gEYno said:

Or, maybe it's just that the things that have come here, have sucked to begin with.

20 year old rookies rarely are great right away. They need to be developed.  

The way this franchise develops players is corrupt and it starts at the top with ownership. 

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Just now, bitonti said:

that's kind of my point. When the Falcons make that deal it works. But when the Jets make that deal it turns out to be Drob. 

Matt Ryan wouldn't have saved the Jets. The Jets would have ruined Matt Ryan. 

So, as was pointed out before, why turn the game on?  There's one, and only one thing, that keeps most of us coming back season after season.  The hope that it can be better.  You obviously think there's some kind of voodoo curse on this franchise, and good players are not possible, so, why bother?

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4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, as was pointed out before, why turn the game on?  

 

There's a big gap between being so jaded to not even watch and being so optimistic to think any year could be a Super Bowl win.  

Or that this team is one different draft pick away 9 years ago from going to the Super Bowl this year. 

The expectations in this town are huge, but the team sucks. It's a bad combo. The team can't just suck and develop, guys get fired every year and the whole thing starts again. 

here we are after firing the OC and no one wants this OC job. No one gets out of Florham alive. 

I'll say it again after that third playoff loss we all would have turned on Matt Ryan. Because that's what we do, we turn on the franchise after they lose. And they always lose. 

To be honest dude, I don't watch like I used to. I watch them when they are on prime time (even when they are getting blown out) but I don't go out of my way to buy the ticket or redzone.

Lately I'm believing that the Pats are the Globetrotters and the Jets are the Generals. Teams like the Jets and Cleveland exist so that the league can sell Tom Brady or Big Ben jerseys in Dubai. 

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5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's a big gap between being so jaded to not even watch and being so optimistic to think any year could be a Super Bowl win, despite no evidence to the contrary. 

The expectations in this town are huge, but the team sucks. It's a bad combo. The team can't just suck and develop, guys get fired every year and the whole thing starts again. 

To be honest dude, I don't watch like I used to. I'm fairly sure that the Pats are teh Globetrotters and the Jets are the Generals. We exist so that the league can sell Tom Brady jerseys in Dubai. 

I don't watch like I used to either, but that's just a function of life.  When I first started on these boards I was in college.  I've got a wife and a daughter and a real adult job now, things change.

But, I don't think there's something so ominous about the Jets that it can't be fixed.  I think the last time we invested in a QB, we took a guy who's college coach (now a super bowl winning coach) was jumping up and down, yelling and screaming that he wasn't ready.  We've taken a terrible prospect in Hack, a complete project in Petty, second rounders in Geno Smith and Kellen Clemens.  The last time we invested in a QB prior to Sanchez was Pennington, and that was a late first rounder with an inadequate arm, which, interestingly enough, was a huge part of the reason Jets fans were afraid of Ryan.  There's no reason to think that if we actually draft a legitimate prospect at the position, we won't have success with him.

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16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lolwut? Miami's D - more correctly, and more importantly, points against - was 30th in 2007 and 9th in 2008. Jesse Chatman was their lead ball carrier, as Ricky was out of football I think, and Ronnie Brown missed most of the season as well. There were so many changes on that team, and you simplistically reduce it to No Chad Then Chad. They even went with a gimmick offense with Brown/Ricky to hide Pennington as much as possible. It even worked for a bit, in part because it was so unconventional, not because of PenningtonProwess. 

Beyond that, you are still crediting Pennington with automatic wins for each win we did get, no matter how many points were required to secure those wins, as though it actually works like that.

Now that's what I call fantasy football. 

you don't think having a competent offense that doesn't turn it over helps a scoring D?

how did they do in 2010 w/o Chad for most of the season? how about 2006 w/ healthy Brown?

Chad was better for our team than favre who had no interest in playing here. there's no question about that.

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6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

But, I don't think there's something so ominous about the Jets that it can't be fixed.  I think the last time we invested in a QB, we took a guy who's college coach (now a super bowl winning coach) was jumping up and down, yelling and screaming that he wasn't ready.  We've taken a terrible prospect in Hack, a complete project in Petty, second rounders in Geno Smith and Kellen Clemens.  The last time we invested in a QB prior to Sanchez was Pennington, and that was a late first rounder with an inadequate arm, which, interestingly enough, was a huge part of the reason Jets fans were afraid of Ryan.  There's no reason to think that if we actually draft a legitimate prospect at the position, we won't have success with him.

 

Ok so let's go down this road, the Jets drafted Matt Ryan, and he's had 2 playoff losses, bad. Then he loses his 3rd playoff game, which is basically a shut out. 

are you telling me that Jets fans would be understanding and not only start this player for another 6 seasons but give him giant 2nd contract? 

it's like what alternate reality are we living in? The alternate Reality where Matt Ryan wins more playoff games when he's younger? Yeah that might have worked. 

this reality where Matt Ryan loses 2-24 in his 3rd playoff game would have been the last time we would have seen him in this uniform. 

No fanbase likes crushing defeat but we really hate crushing defeats followed by 6 years of the same. Jets fans demand action and Matty Ice would have been a target, well before we got to this point. 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok so let's go down this road, the Jets drafted Matt Ryan, and he's had 2 playoff losses, bad. Then he loses his 3rd playoff game, which is basically a shut out. 

are you telling me that Jets fans would be understanding and not only start this player for another 6 seasons but give him giant 2nd contract? 

it's like what alternate reality are we living in? The alternate Reality where Matt Ryan wins more playoff games when he's younger? Yeah that might have worked. 

this reality where Matt Ryan loses 2-24 in his 3rd playoff game would have been the last time we would have seen him in this uniform. 

No fanbase likes crushing defeat but we really hate crushing defeats followed by 6 years of the same. Jets fans demand action and Matty Ice would have been a target, well before we got to this point. 

Wait.  So Geno Smith might actually be good?

SAR I

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37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok so let's go down this road, the Jets drafted Matt Ryan, and he's had 2 playoff losses, bad. Then he loses his 3rd playoff game, which is basically a shut out. 

are you telling me that Jets fans would be understanding and not only start this player for another 6 seasons but give him giant 2nd contract? 

it's like what alternate reality are we living in? The alternate Reality where Matt Ryan wins more playoff games when he's younger? Yeah that might have worked. 

this reality where Matt Ryan loses 2-24 in his 3rd playoff game would have been the last time we would have seen him in this uniform. 

No fanbase likes crushing defeat but we really hate crushing defeats followed by 6 years of the same. Jets fans demand action and Matty Ice would have been a target, well before we got to this point. 

We gave terribly conceived extensions to Sanchez and Pennington.  I think we'd be disappointed with his playoff performance, but still fans of his.

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29 minutes ago, tfine said:

If your the QB of the Jets you have to deliver a Super bowl within 2 years or else your labeled a bust. Unless your name is Christian Hackenberg then you don't even have to play to be called a bust. The media said so.

So we stash Hackenberg for 7 years, let him start in his 8th.

If he sucks, we're lucky we didn't start him and waste all that time.  If he's great, we waited just the right amount of time to let him mature.

Genius.

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

We gave terribly conceived extensions to Sanchez and Pennington.  I think we'd be disappointed with his playoff performance, but still fans of his.

If Matt Ryan were on the Jets, the fans would be arguing tooth-and-nail that he was better than Brady and the only reason Ryan hadn't won a SB or playoff game was because (1) Brady/Pats cheated, (2) Ryan needed more weapons and that was the fault of Tanny or whomever was the GM (we wouldn't have gotten to Idzik) and (3) bad Jets luck.

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1 hour ago, gEYno said:

Or, maybe it's just that the things that have come here, have sucked to begin with.

Revis, Mangold, D'Brick, and Harris all didn't get ruined by being Jets.

I wrote something about this a week ago. What would one say, using this same line of thinking, if Maccagnan drafted [whomever] at #6 in'15, and someone else drafted Leonard Williams (who still turned out just as good)? Gee, might it resemble, "Yeah, he's great but he wouldn't have been if he was on the Jets. Hell, he wouldn't even be playing. Stewpid Bowles would just have him backing up Mo & Sheldon."

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

you don't think having a competent offense that doesn't turn it over helps a scoring D?

how did they do in 2010 w/o Chad for most of the season? how about 2006 w/ healthy Brown?

Chad was better for our team than favre who had no interest in playing here. there's no question about that.

You don't bother looking at other things that changed on their team, from coaching to scheduling to other position changes, though you're quick to outline such hardships and disadvantages for Pennington on the Jets." I don't think you can credibly play the game of, "Swap out Favre and insert Pennington, and all the good results with Favre remain while some/most of the bad things would have been rectified." And you should know better. 

For all you know Pennington would have gotten injured week 2 in 2008 (again) -- or even in the preseason (again). Even Ironman Favre got injured week 10 (or whatever happened). 

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34 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't bother looking at other things that changed on their team, from coaching to scheduling to other position changes, though you're quick to outline such hardships and disadvantages for Pennington on the Jets." I don't think you can credibly play the game of, "Swap out Favre and insert Pennington, and all the good results with Favre remain while some/most of the bad things would have been rectified." And you should know better. 

For all you know Pennington would have gotten injured week 2 in 2008 (again) -- or even in the preseason (again). Even Ironman Favre got injured week 10 (or whatever happened). 

ok so how many other winning records/playoff apps did they have w/ that coaching staff, management team and the other players around him?

if you think Miami was going 11-5 w/o Chad I don't know what to tell you.

the biggest reason they made the move was b/c they couldn't trust him to stay healthy, I understood on that level but it wasn't worth the Favre risk.

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the biggest reason they made the move was b/c they couldn't trust him to stay healthy, I understood on that level but it wasn't worth the Favre risk.

No, the biggest reason they made the move is because the fanbase was done with Chad Pennington.

Every other year he sucked in crunch time, every other year he was injured and cost us the entire season.

After 6 years of Chad, we'd had enough.  He was Geno Smith, only cuter.

SAR I

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9 hours ago, gEYno said:

Jets Fans -- I thought today would be a good day to relive a great victory in Jets history.

On December 30th, 2007, sitting at 3-12, the New York Jets played host to the 4-11 Kansas City Chiefs.

The Jets struck first, early in the second quarter, with a Kellen Clemens pass to Thomas Jones for a 15 yard TD score!

The Chiefs came back with a FG and just before the half, the Jets answered with a field goal of their own, ending the first half at 10-3.

The third quarter was scoreless, as was most of the 4th, until with 3 minutes left, Brodie Croyle hits Jeff Webb for a 26-yard TD score...

The game would head to overtime, when with 9:47 left in the sudden death period, Jets Kicker Mike Nugent lined up for a 43-yard FG for the win.

And here it is, the game winner:

And just like that, the Jets would end their season on a win, finishing at 4-12.

I'm hoping other people can share their memories of this important win in Jets history!!!!!

Remember that it's important to win these games!  We must do whatever we can to improve our draft position and NOT get a QB like Matt Ryan.

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

No, the biggest reason they made the move is because the fanbase was done with Chad Pennington.

Every other year he sucked in crunch time, every other year he was injured and cost us the entire season.

After 6 years of Chad, we'd had enough.  He was Geno Smith, only cuter.

SAR I

LMAO!

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

that's kind of my point. When the Falcons make that deal it works. But when the Jets make that deal it turns out to be Drob. 

Matt Ryan wouldn't have saved the Jets. The Jets would have ruined Matt Ryan. 

This is very SOJF attitude.  So basically no matter who we get, they won't succeed because SOJ.

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6 hours ago, gEYno said:

The evidence pretty strongly suggests you don't know this fanbase at all.  This fanbase made heroes at of Brett Ratliff and Matt Simms and didn't run out anyone who, by objective measures, wasn't terrible.  The people who you're defending, you're doing so by interjecting your opinion (right or wrong), but the #proveablefacts describe them poorly.

Matt Simms would've been one of the great ones.

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7 hours ago, SMC said:

He was booed in 2007 when he got hurt because (1) he couldn't stay on the field and (2) the team was 1-7 when he was QB.

Again, that has nothing to do with Matt Ryan, because we're talking about him being healthy (which he has been) and not sucking (which he doesn't do).  If Matt Ryan was an "egg back there" and led the team to a 1-7 record as a 31 year old (Ryan's age this season BTW), he would've been booed too.

Think about that.  In Chad's 31st year, he got hurt again and was 1-7 as a starter.  In Ryan's 31st year, he led his team to the SB.  Understand the difference?

"It was all Dan Quinn"

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Ok so let's go down this road, the Jets drafted Matt Ryan, and he's had 2 playoff losses, bad. Then he loses his 3rd playoff game, which is basically a shut out. 

are you telling me that Jets fans would be understanding and not only start this player for another 6 seasons but give him giant 2nd contract? 

it's like what alternate reality are we living in? The alternate Reality where Matt Ryan wins more playoff games when he's younger? Yeah that might have worked. 

this reality where Matt Ryan loses 2-24 in his 3rd playoff game would have been the last time we would have seen him in this uniform. 

No fanbase likes crushing defeat but we really hate crushing defeats followed by 6 years of the same. Jets fans demand action and Matty Ice would have been a target, well before we got to this point. 

Not faulting Bit or anyone else. But for anyone to say if they drafted Ryan, x, y and then z happens almost the same way, it's rampant speculation. It's fun, and we all do it here. May be it plays out in a good way or a mediocre way or a great way. Too many variables to say how things would have happened. Personally can remember badmouthing Ryan. And while he will probably be the MVP, still hasn't won anything-yet. He's got a chance to rewrite a few things in 2 weeks. 

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2 hours ago, Larz said:

remember when the jets traded for the NFL's ultimate iron man QB?

what happened?

Injuries are always possible in the NFL.  If nothing we ever do will be right then why bother rooting in the first place?  Btw, who won the World Series this year?

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23 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Injuries are always possible in the NFL.  If nothing we ever do will be right then why bother rooting in the first place?  Btw, who won the World Series this year?

Remember when the owner was going to finally give us our own stadium?

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11 hours ago, nyjunc said:

it's called logic and paying attention to this fanbase.  I was at every Ken O'brien game from 1990-1992, he was booed almost weekly and yet on Jets MBs he is treated like a god b/c there's a youtube clip of some of his nice deep passes.  I have a great understanding of this fanbase.

Kenny was not boo'd almost weekly. 

 Not even close to being true

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This is tiring. Forget the past!!! Who looks like they can be special in this draft or on this team????

 

no negative just tell me your opinion of who looks like they CAN be elite 1 day. I think if hack is going to be special he must be a genius like Peyton because physically he doesn't look special. 

Mitch and kizer though,,, I'm not sold but have to admit it's possible. But kizer can be McNair or josh freeman to me. And Mitch can't sell me on 1 year. 

 

Thoughts??????

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