Reliving Dec. 30th, 2007 -- Kansas City Chiefs at New York Jets

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

go back and watch those games, watch how many balls he would just throw up for grabs.  

 

who was Mangini going to bring in? Clemens? and all favre cared about was his streak- he didn't want to sit.

The team was 8-3, in 1st place and in good shape for one of top 2 seeds coming off a week 12 Thursday night win in Foxboro. And Mangini was fired about 5 weeks later. Mangini himself probably replays what he could have done instead every day. Recall he was also supposedly told he had some job security what ever happened with Favre. Now Mangini was bad dealing with people, but out of all the wreckage of the coaches we have had here since  he was probably the most likely to have found his footing here. Not saying it's a given, but he is still way sharper about both sides of the ball than Rex or Bowles. Heck, he won 9 games and Rex did not win any more the next year, simply lucked into a better year for the wildcard slot. 

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

The team was 8-3, in 1st place and in good shape for one of top 2 seeds coming off a week 12 Thursday night win in Foxboro. And Mangini was fired about 5 weeks later. Mangini himself probably replays what he could have done instead every day. Recall he was also supposedly told he had some job security what ever happened with Favre. Now Mangini was bad dealing with people, but out of all the wreckage of the coaches we have had here since  he was probably the most likely to have found his footing here. Not saying it's a given, but he is still way sharper about both sides of the ball than Rex or Bowles. Heck, he won 9 games and Rex did not win any more the next year, simply lucked into a better year for the wildcard slot. 

Mangini tried to be Belichick, the BB acts works if you have Tom Brady and win SBs.  it doesn't if not.

I think Mangini could have been a great HC, he just didn't understand how to deal w/ people.

 

9 games against a MUCH weaker sched in 2008 w/ a HOF QB and no Brady, Rex won 9 w/ a rookie, tougher sched and Brady. 9 wins one season doesn't mean the same in another season.  we won 9 in 2002 and 10 in 2001- we were MUCH better in 2002.

his luck was winning enough games to make the playoffs, we had nothing bu easy teams outside of Miami late in 2008 and we couldn't beat them. I don't want to hear about luck.

[Bugg]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Mangini tried to be Belichick, the BB acts works if you have Tom Brady and win SBs.  it doesn't if not.

I think Mangini could have been a great HC, he just didn't understand how to deal w/ people.

 

9 games against a MUCH weaker sched in 2008 w/ a HOF QB and no Brady, Rex won 9 w/ a rookie, tougher sched and Brady. 9 wins one season doesn't mean the same in another season.  we won 9 in 2002 and 10 in 2001- we were MUCH better in 2002.

his luck was winning enough games to make the playoffs, we had nothing bu easy teams outside of Miami late in 2008 and we couldn't beat them. I don't want to hear about luck.

I dunno-beat #1 seed Titans on the road and smoked  the eventual NFC team Cards; Favre had 6 TDs that day. But you're right; Mangini needed to find some less dickish way of doing things with grown men. And his failure to do so gave Johnson a convenient excuse to dump him. 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Bugg said:

I dunno-beat #1 seed Titans on the road and smoked  the eventual NFC team Cards; Favre had 6 TDs that day. But you're right; Mangini needed to find some less dickish way of doing things with grown men. And his failure to do so gave Johnson a convenient excuse to dump him. 

the Cards got smoked 3 times in the NorthEast,

56-35 to us

48-20 to Philly

47-7 to NE

 

they were a different team in the playoffs.  Favre was great that day and he had a few other good games including NE, Buf, Ten but most of that year he was holding us back and he was atrocious down the stretch.  I don't care about his supposed injury, we bash Chad for nearly making a title game w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder but we give Favre, the ironman, an injury excuse?

 

 

[SAR I]

36 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Quite frankly you are making Kenny better than he really was. Did he throw a beautiful pass? Yes he did.  However, he also was a statue in the pocket who never scored a rushing TD because he had no football instincts. 

Lets not re-invent history, just because O'Brien had a great arm, he was far from a great QB.

Bingo.

Why is it that people need to puff up these lesser players?  And then refuse to accept the fact that Mark Sanchez was the second-greatest quarterback in Jets history?

It's bad enough the team doesn't know what it's doing.  The fans being equally blind is almost as maddening.

SAR I

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he's not though, I am not sure he is top 5 in Jets history.

1. Namath

2. Vinny

3. Chad

4. Sanchez

I guess he is 5th? or would it be Richard Todd?

LOL, this is a joke, right?

Vinny Testaverde was a one-season wonder, got injured in 1999, blew our incredible 2000 open with an epic choke-job in December, and wasted our 2001 season before almost wasting our 2002 season.  Second best quarterback in team history?  Please.

Chad Pennington ruined as many seasons as he supported, hurt every other year, no playoff intensity, wasted 6 years.

In the end, the Jets have had 2 quarterbacks worth a damn.  Namath and Sanchez.  And that's it.  There is no Top 5 list.  There are only 2.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

LOL, this is a joke, right?

Vinny Testaverde was a one-season wonder, got injured in 1999, blew our incredible 2000 open with an epic choke-job in December, and wasted our 2001 season before almost wasting our 2002 season.  Second best quarterback in team history?  Please.

Chad Pennington ruined as many seasons as he supported, hurt every other year, no playoff intensity, wasted 6 years.

In the end, the Jets have had 2 quarterbacks worth a damn.  Namath and Sanchez.  And that's it.  There is no Top 5 list.  There are only 2.

SAR I

Vinny had the greatest individual season of any QB in NYJ history and we never had a losing record w/ him, won a div title, made a title game and made multiple postseason apps.

Chad made the playoffs 3 times(2nd most in team history), won a rare div title(the only non Brady of this era) and every time he started double digit games we made the playoffs.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Quite frankly you are making Kenny better than he really was. Did he throw a beautiful pass? Yes he did.  However, he also was a statue in the pocket who never scored a rushing TD because he had no football instincts.  On numerous times, once it almost cost us the playoffs in a December 1991 game against the Pats, on 4th down when no one was open in the endzone he could have walked in instead he chose to the throw the ball away.  He never won a post season game despite having incredible talent on offense (Toon, Walker, Shuler, Hector, McNeil, etc..).  The one playoff game we won during his tenure was won by Pat Ryan when Walton benched Kenny for poor play at the end of the 1986 season. Ryan defeated the Chiefs and we would have beaten the Browns the following week had he not gotten injured and replaced by O'Brien.

Lets not re-invent history, just because O'Brien had a great arm, he was far from a great QB.

Reinvent history?  Pat Ryan beat the Chiefs?  The Jets O scored 28 points?  That game was all D.  The Jets D outscored the Chiefs O 7-6.  The Chiefs ended up with 15, 2 on the intentional safety by Jennings and 7 on a fumble recovery.  MacArthur scored 7 on the INT return.  Russell got an INT too.  Joe Walton was a ******* moron and the problem with those teams, NOT Kenny O.  

[JetsFanatic]

Top 5 Based on talent & success as a Jet.

 

1. Namath - Played in an era that was much tougher to play QB and lead us to a Super Bowl. Put the Jets and the AFL on the map.

2. Sanchez - If winning matters his 4 road playoff victories in his first two years in the league should be weighted heavily.  Too bad the Jets didn't build an offense around him.  He has done nothing since leaving the Jets. Is he not that good? or did the Jets ruin him? We will never know.

3. Todd - An enigma.  He had it all. Great arm, mobile and built like a bull.  I think he was too psychologically fragile.  Once Walt Michaels was fired, he was never the same QB. Michaels truly nurtured him. Had a great playoff run in 1982.

4. Pennington - Even with a weak arm, I think he was a good solid QB. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay on the field. So no matter how talented he may have been, what good was it if he couldn't play?

5. Vinnie T.: Only had 1 great season as a Jet, but it was really great.

[Bleedin Green]

33 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the Cards got smoked 3 times in the NorthEast,

56-35 to us

48-20 to Philly

47-7 to NE

 

they were a different team in the playoffs.  Favre was great that day and he had a few other good games including NE, Buf, Ten but most of that year he was holding us back and he was atrocious down the stretch.  I don't care about his supposed injury, we bash Chad for nearly making a title game w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder but we give Favre, the ironman, an injury excuse?

 

 

So is an injury a valid excuse for every QB's sh*tty play, or is it never an excuse for a QB's sh*tty play?

To be clear, "an excuse for the QB I like and not an excuse for the QB I don't like" is not an available option.

Oh, and enough with the "nearly making a title game" bullsh*t already.  You've even admitted he had nothing positive to do with the game that they lost being a close one.

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So is an injury a valid excuse for every QB's sh*tty play, or is it never an excuse for a QB's sh*tty play?

To be clear, "an excuse for the QB I like and not an excuse for the QB I don't like" is not an available option.

Oh, and enough with the "nearly making a title game" bullsh*t already.  You've even admitted he had nothing positive to do with the game that they lost being a close one.

you can't not give me Chad or mark's injury and then tell me Brett the ironman favre was bad b/c of an injury.  

I din't say he had nothing positive to do w/ that game  I said he had a bad game.  those are different statements.

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Reinvent history?  Pat Ryan beat the Chiefs?  The Jets O scored 28 points?  That game was all D.  The Jets D outscored the Chiefs O 7-6.  The Chiefs ended up with 15, 2 on the intentional safety by Jennings and 7 on a fumble recovery.  MacArthur scored 7 on the INT return.  Russell got an INT too.  Joe Walton was a ******* moron and the problem with those teams, NOT Kenny O.  

so it was pure coincidence that we lost 5 straight averaging less than 10 PPG w/ Kenny and all of sudden win big vs. KC w/ Ryan?

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

so it was pure coincidence that we lost 5 straight averaging less than 10 PPG w/ Kenny and all of sudden win big vs. KC w/ Ryan?

#notafact

They lost 5 straight, but only scored less than 10 the first two games of that stretch and averaged more than 10, even if you subtract the TD Ryan threw which you probably shouldn't since it took away a possession.  The way I remember it, O'Brien got was dinged and kept playing and Walton was an idiot. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

sometimes we have to use common sense.  I don't think there is any doubt IF Chad stays healthy(that is a big if but he stayed healthy in Miami so let's assume he stays healthy here) we win the division in 2008.

That was how football was back then, it was a league wide, sport wide thing. although we did have that crooked Dr on our payroll it happened everywhere.

Watch old clips of Toon taking shots over the middle.  Kenny set him up, not intentionally but he played a major role in his concussions.

In reality I didn't have a problem moving on from Chad based on his durability issues, what I didn't like(and I said this at the time) was bringing in favre a month before the season.  if you couldn't get a deal done in the offseason we shouldn't have made it and rolled the dice w/ Chad for one more year.

You may not think so, because of your own bias (we all have our own), but there is always doubt. You don't know if we would've ended up 8-8. You really just don't.

There is no assumption that we automatically win the division in 2008 with Pennington instead of Favre. No matter how strongly you personally believe it, in reality that changes nothing.

[nyjunc]

28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

#notafact

They lost 5 straight, but only scored less than 10 the first two games of that stretch and averaged more than 10, even if you subtract the TD Ryan threw which you probably shouldn't since it took away a possession.  The way I remember it, O'Brien got was dinged and kept playing and Walton was an idiot. 

that actually is a fact, they AVERAGED less than 10 PPG.

at Miami 3 points

vs. LA Rams 3 points

at SF 10 pts(TD was w/ team trailing 21-3 in 4th)

Pitt 17- looking it up it was actually 10 w/ O'Brien as Ryan threw a late, meaningless TD to give our offense 17 pts so it's really 10.

at Cin 14

so the most pts he led his O to in any game was 14 pts.  Impressive.

 

you can blame Walton all you want, Walton was Ryan's coach too and they won.

In 3 career postseason games(2 starts and playing 5 qtrs vs. Cleveland) he led his O's to:

14 pts

13 pts

10 pts

it's hard to win in postseason scoring a little over 10 PPG

 

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You may not think so, because of your own bias (we all have our own), but there is always doubt. You don't know if we would've ended up 8-8. You really just don't.

There is no assumption that we automatically win the division in 2008 with Pennington instead of Favre. No matter how strongly you personally believe it, in reality that changes nothing.

we'll never know about Chad in 2008 unfortunately but what we do know is Favre ruined our season.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

the Cards got smoked 3 times in the NorthEast,

56-35 to us

48-20 to Philly

47-7 to NE

 

they were a different team in the playoffs.  Favre was great that day and he had a few other good games including NE, Buf, Ten but most of that year he was holding us back and he was atrocious down the stretch.  I don't care about his supposed injury, we bash Chad for nearly making a title game w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder but we give Favre, the ironman, an injury excuse?

 

 

Uh, Miami got smoked by Arizona, 31-10 (and it was 31-3 when they finally took Pennington out of the game). That's the other side of what Pennington brought to the table.

This is why you can't just automatically count wins with others as also being sure wins with Pennington.

Since you're so big on game results, with Pennington starting games in Miami, they were 1-8 if the opponent scored 20+ points. 1 and freaking 8. I have no love for Favre, but in such games in 2008, we were 4-4 with (and 3 of those 4 losses came after he was injured). 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

with Pennington starting games in Miami, they were 1-8 if the opponent scored 20+ points. 1 and freaking 8.

But, what was the barometric pressure on those days?

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, gEYno said:

But, what was the barometric pressure on those days?

Ooh, I forgot to account for weather! 

 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Uh, Miami got smoked by Arizona, 31-10 (and it was 31-3 when they finally took Pennington out of the game). That's the other side of what Pennington brought to the table.

This is why you can't just automatically count wins with others as also being sure wins with Pennington.

Since you're so big on game results, with Pennington starting games in Miami, they were 1-8 if the opponent scored 20+ points. 1 and freaking 8. I have no love for Favre, but in such games in 2008, we were 4-4 with (and 3 of those 4 losses came after he was injured). 

Miami played them AT Arizona, that is a HUGE difference.  AZ was 8-2 overall at home in 2008, they were 5-4 overall on the road and in the NE they were 0-3 losing by an average of 30 PPG.

 

who cares? we won 3 games when opposing O's scored 20 or more that year:

56-35 over AZ where they scored nothing but garbage time pts

34-31 over NE after jumping out to huge lead

31-27 over Buffalo when the Bills were trying to run out the clock and fumnbled and our DEFENSE scored the game winning TD w/ 2 mins left

 

losses:

lost 48-29 at SD, never had a chance

lost 34-17 to Den, never had a chance

lost 24-14 to SF

Chad's losses:

31-10 to Ari, never had a chance

29-28 to Houston, gave Mia 28-23 lead w/ under 2 mins to play.  lost at gun

27-13 to bal, never had a chance

48-28 to NE, never had a chance

at least he gave his team a chance to win another one.

 

by the way, Chad and Miami were 1-4 when opps scored 20 pts not 1-8(1-5 if you count playoff game)

 

 

 

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, gEYno said:

But, what was the barometric pressure on those days?

there you go again clown.

[nyjunc]

19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Uh, Miami got smoked by Arizona, 31-10 (and it was 31-3 when they finally took Pennington out of the game). That's the other side of what Pennington brought to the table.

This is why you can't just automatically count wins with others as also being sure wins with Pennington.

Since you're so big on game results, with Pennington starting games in Miami, they were 1-8 if the opponent scored 20+ points. 1 and freaking 8. I have no love for Favre, but in such games in 2008, we were 4-4 with (and 3 of those 4 losses came after he was injured). 

please bold that it was 1-4 not 1-8 and you just assume Favre got hurt w/ the Denver game, we don't know exactly when and actually there were repots it happened back in october around KC/Oak and even if you go by the Den game he was 2-1 pre"injury".  KC doesn't get credit for returning a Favre TD for a score and AZ scored a bunch of garbage time pts.  not really a big deal either way.

 

common opps:

 

AZ BF 1-0 CP 0-1

NE both 1-1

SD BF 0-1 CP 1-0

Buf both 2-0

Den BF 0-1 CP 1-0

Sea BF 0-1 CP 1-0

Oak BF 0-1 CP 1-0

SL both 1-0

SF BF 0-1 CP 1-0

KC both 1-0

 

against common opponents:

Favre: 6-6

Pennington: 10-2

 

 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

there you go again clown.

Once again, mocking a football post draws name-calling.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

you can't not give me Chad or mark's injury and then tell me Brett the ironman favre was bad b/c of an injury.  

I din't say he had nothing positive to do w/ that game  I said he had a bad game.  those are different statements.

To be clear, I think it's a bullsh*t excuse to use for any quarterback.  You're the one who seems to have interest in picking and choosing when it qualifies as some sort of excuse, or worse yet, reason to give extra credit.  The point being given how much you like to beat your drum about Chad being better than evidence suggests, because of injuries, you're certainly in a rush to dismiss it when it doesn't fit your agenda.

And fair enough about the divisional round, we can simply say he had a bad game, but that on it's own is reason enough to stop your endless celebration of something that ultimately did not happen, and particularly attempting to credit that failure being close to the person you admit had a "bad game".  To be clear, I don't think any Jets player deserves to get praised for losing in the divisional round, but certainly not those who had bad games.  Should we praise Doug Brien for being just one kick away from bringing them to the AFC championship?  I would think not.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

To be clear, I think it's a bullsh*t excuse to use for any quarterback.  You're the one who seems to have interest in picking and choosing when it qualifies as some sort of excuse, or worse yet, reason to give extra credit.  The point being given how much you like to beat your drum about Chad being better than evidence suggests, because of injuries, you're certainly in a rush to dismiss it when it doesn't fit your agenda.

And fair enough about the divisional round, we can simply say he had a bad game, but that on it's own is reason enough to stop your endless celebration of something that ultimately did not happen, and particularly attempting to credit that failure being close to the person you admit had a "bad game".  To be clear, I don't think any Jets player deserves to get praised for losing in the divisional round, but certainly not those who had bad games.  Should we praise Doug Brien for being just one kick away from bringing them to the AFC championship?  I would think not.

The only time I even mentioned it as a potential excuse was giving a fact.  Chad is not a strong armed QB when healthy, he had a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder on the road against the #1 D.  it's not crazy to assume he would struggle.

doug had 2 chances to send us there, for as poorly as Chad and the O played Brien need to make one of two kicks.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Miami played them AT Arizona, that is a HUGE difference.  AZ was 8-2 overall at home in 2008, they were 5-4 overall on the road and in the NE they were 0-3 losing by an average of 30 PPG.

 

losses:

lost 48-29 at SD, never had a chance

lost 34-17 to Den, never had a chance

lost 24-14 to SF

Chad's losses:

31-10 to Ari, never had a chance

29-28 to Houston, gave Mia 28-23 lead w/ under 2 mins to play.  lost at gun

27-13 to bal, never had a chance

48-28 to NE, never had a chance

at least he gave his team a chance to win another one.

 

by the way, Chad and Miami were 1-4 when opps scored 20 pts not 1-8(1-5 if you count playoff game)

 

 

 

Holy crap. 

Now he's excused for the Dolphins only scoring 3 points because they were in Arizona? With that easy win vs. Miami, they were 8-2 there, not 33-2 as you're making it seem. They scored 31 against Miami and won. They scored 35 against the Jets and lost. This is what I'm trying to communicate to you. They still put up a bunch of points whethger home or away. One resulted in an easy win and the other they got socked in the mouth (quite literally, at the end, from Eric Smith).

Arizona was 5-4 on the road in part because the Jets scored 50+ points on them, aiding in their lesser record, just as spanking Miami aided in their 8-2 record at home (I noticed you included the playoffs since it makes it look better, even though neither of our games was in the playoffs). Remove the Jets/Miami common games and they're 4-3 on the road and 5-2 at home in the regular season, when we both played them, with the difference in disparity ultimately coming down to a fluke blocked punt that was returned for a TD in OT vs Dallas. Really not such a huge difference as you make it out.

 

And what the hell do things like "27-13 to bal, never had a chance" mean? Of course they had a chance: they could have scored more than 27 points and won. Pennington maybe could've not thrown a pick-6 in the 1st half; maybe that would have helped. It was 20-13 in the 3rd Q and 7 of Baltimore's points came from Chad Pennington. That "never had a chance" 48-28 loss to NE was a 3-point game in the 4th quarter. Never had a chance, lol. Are you serious with this?

We beat NE in OT 34-31. Why, for some reason, do I think that if Pennington was our QB, and if we'd then lost 31-10 instead, you'd write "never had a chance" as the reason we lost? 

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Vinny had the greatest individual season of any QB in NYJ history and we never had a losing record w/ him, won a div title, made a title game and made multiple postseason apps.

Chad made the playoffs 3 times(2nd most in team history), won a rare div title(the only non Brady of this era) and every time he started double digit games we made the playoffs.

Vinny Testaverde was on the Jets for 6 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 1-2 in the postseason.  In 2000, his lousy play made the Jets the only NFL team to open a season 6-1 and miss the playoffs, throwing 25 interceptions [We ran Fitzpatrick out of town for throwing 17].

Chad Pennington sucked.  Averaged 7 starts a year in an 8 year career.  2-3 in the postseason.  Pathetic.

Mark Sanchez was on the Jets for 4 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 4-2 in the postseason.  Has the highest QBR in Jets postseason history.  Was the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Played well enough to lead us to the Super Bowl.  Twice.

Add it all up, it's Namath and Sanchez, no other Jets quarterback was worth a damn.  Vinny may have played the "local hero" and Chad may have played the "cuddly leader" but neither was any good.  If you want to look at single seasons, perhaps '98 and '02 are on the Jets Mount Rushmore along with '09 and '10, but their collective careers were massive turds and time wasters.  Sanchez too, by the way.  But he was the best of the 3 of them, if that matters.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

But, what was the barometric pressure on those days?

SAR I

[SMC]

I blame Chad's mom for not giving him enough milk as a child to build strong muscles and bones.

[nyjunc]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Holy crap. 

Now he's excused for the Dolphins only scoring 3 points because they were in Arizona? With that easy win vs. Miami, they were 8-2 there, not 33-2 as you're making it seem. They scored 31 against Miami and won. They scored 35 against the Jets and lost. This is what I'm trying to communicate to you. They still put up a bunch of points whethger home or away. One resulted in an easy win and the other they got socked in the mouth (quite literally, at the end, from Eric Smith).

Arizona was 5-4 on the road in part because the Jets scored 50+ points on them, aiding in their lesser record, just as spanking Miami aided in their 8-2 record at home (I noticed you included the playoffs since it makes it look better, even though neither of our games was in the playoffs). Remove the Jets/Miami common games and they're 4-3 on the road and 5-2 at home in the regular season, when we both played them, with the difference in disparity ultimately coming down to a fluke blocked punt that was returned for a TD in OT vs Dallas. Really not such a huge difference as you make it out.

 

And what the hell do things like "27-13 to bal, never had a chance" mean? Of course they had a chance: they could have scored more than 27 points and won. Pennington maybe could've not thrown a pick-6 in the 1st half; maybe that would have helped. It was 20-13 in the 3rd Q and 7 of Baltimore's points came from Chad Pennington. That "never had a chance" 48-28 loss to NE was a 3-point game in the 4th quarter. Never had a chance, lol. Are you serious with this?

We beat NE in OT 34-31. Why, for some reason, do I think that if Pennington was our QB, and if we'd then lost 31-10 instead, you'd write "never had a chance" as the reason we lost? 

where did I excuse him? I simply stated a fact that AZ was a much better home team.  their 35 against the Jets was after falling behind 34-0.

again, in 3 trips to the NE they lost all 3 by an average of 30 PPG.

 

in 2 games against NE Chad and Miami's O scored 66 pts, Favre and the Jets O scored 37.

 

 

12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Vinny Testaverde was on the Jets for 6 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 1-2 in the postseason.  In 2000, his lousy play made the Jets the only NFL team to open a season 6-1 and miss the playoffs, throwing 25 interceptions [We ran Fitzpatrick out of town for throwing 17].

Chad Pennington sucked.  Averaged 7 starts a year in an 8 year career.  2-3 in the postseason.  Pathetic.

Mark Sanchez was on the Jets for 4 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 4-2 in the postseason.  Has the highest QBR in Jets postseason history.  Was the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Played well enough to lead us to the Super Bowl.  Twice.

Add it all up, it's Namath and Sanchez, no other Jets quarterback was worth a damn.  Vinny may have played the "local hero" and Chad may have played the "cuddly leader" but neither was any good.  If you want to look at single seasons, perhaps '98 and '02 are on the Jets Mount Rushmore along with '09 and '10, but their collective careers were massive turds and time wasters.  Sanchez too, by the way.  But he was the best of the 3 of them, if that matters.

SAR I

Vinny was primary starter in 1998, 2000 and 2001.  we made the playoffs 2 of those 3 years and the one year we missed we were 9-7. Vinny threw away 2000 but that was on coaching, why did they allow him to do that? a year later Herm & co limited his throws and we made the playoffs.  Vinny wasn't the same after the achilles injury and if you are going to bash Vinny for making 2 POs in 3 years as starter then what about Joe making 2 POs in 8 almost full seasons?  and he was 2-1 instead of 1-2.

when Chad started at least 10 games we made playoffs each time

Mark was vastly underrated by Jet fans

 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Vinny Testaverde was on the Jets for 6 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 1-2 in the postseason.  In 2000, his lousy play made the Jets the only NFL team to open a season 6-1 and miss the playoffs, throwing 25 interceptions [We ran Fitzpatrick out of town for throwing 17].

Chad Pennington sucked.  Averaged 7 starts a year in an 8 year career.  2-3 in the postseason.  Pathetic.

Mark Sanchez was on the Jets for 4 years, made 2 playoff appearances, was 4-2 in the postseason.  Has the highest QBR in Jets postseason history.  Was the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Played well enough to lead us to the Super Bowl.  Twice.

Add it all up, it's Namath and Sanchez, no other Jets quarterback was worth a damn.  Vinny may have played the "local hero" and Chad may have played the "cuddly leader" but neither was any good.  If you want to look at single seasons, perhaps '98 and '02 are on the Jets Mount Rushmore along with '09 and '10, but their collective careers were massive turds and time wasters.  Sanchez too, by the way.  But he was the best of the 3 of them, if that matters.

SAR I

Sanchez was carried by Rex Ryan.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez was carried by Rex Ryan.

but Rex was a terrible HC so how could that be?  amazingly we won 4 road playoff games w/ a terrible HC, terrible QB, terrible GM, terrible OC.  we were so lucky.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

where did I excuse him? I simply stated a fact that AZ was a much better home team.  their 35 against the Jets was after falling behind 34-0.

again, in 3 trips to the NE they lost all 3 by an average of 30 PPG.

 

in 2 games against NE Chad and Miami's O scored 66 pts, Favre and the Jets O scored 37.

BFD. In 1 game vs Arizona the Jets scored 56 and Miami scored 3 (the other 7 they scored only after they took Pennington out of the game).

AZ was a marginally better home team. A coin-toss win against Dallas in OT doesn't make them MUCH better. They were a little better at home, as are most teams. Fact is they put up more points on the road against the Jets than they did at home against Miami. Lost to the Jets and smoked Miami, much to the delight of all Jets fans. Well, almost all, it would seem.

3 trips to the northeast. What the hell is that nonsense? You are really reaching at straws, attempting to qualify any win or loss with your special rationalizations. We beat them on a gorgeous day in NJ. They didn't lose because of some horrible nor'easter. There is nothing special that happens in the northeast vs the southeast or whatever. There are home and away games, and they weren't such a dominant home team in the regular season. 5-3 outside of the Dolphins, and their other reg season opponents with a winning record - except the Dolphins - crushed them at home (Giants, Minnesota).

So **** Chad Pennington, and especially **** Miami Chad Pennington. Why any Jets fan would attempt to take victory laps for Miami Dolphins wins is beyond me. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

but Rex was a terrible HC so how could that be?  amazingly we won 4 road playoff games w/ a terrible HC, terrible QB, terrible GM, terrible OC.  we were so lucky.

Would you keep quiet for 15 minutes so I can wait for his head to explode? You are being a 1st class fun vacuum here.

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

BFD. In 1 game vs Arizona the Jets scored 56 and Miami scored 3 (the other 7 they scored only after they took Pennington out of the game).

AZ was a marginally better home team. A coin-toss win against Dallas in OT doesn't make them MUCH better. They were a little better at home, as are most teams. Fact is they put up more points on the road against the Jets than they did at home against Miami. Lost to the Jets and smoked Miami, much to the delight of all Jets fans. Well, almost all, it would seem.

3 trips to the northeast. What the hell is that nonsense? You are really reaching at straws, attempting to qualify any win or loss with your special rationalizations. We beat them on a gorgeous day in NJ. They didn't lose because of some horrible nor'easter. There is nothing special that happens in the northeast vs the southeast or whatever. There are home and away games, and they weren't such a dominant home team in the regular season. 5-3 outside of the Dolphins, and their other reg season opponents with a winning record - except the Dolphins - crushed them at home (Giants, Minnesota).

So **** Chad Pennington, and especially **** Miami Chad Pennington. Why any Jets fan would attempt to take victory laps for Miami Dolphins wins is beyond me. 

again:

 

records vs. common opponents:

Favre 6-6

Chad 10-2

 

and Chad led Miami O to 33 PPG against NE  while favre led his O to 18.5 PPG against NE.

[nyjunc]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would you keep quiet for 15 minutes so I can wait for his head to explode? You are being a 1st class fun vacuum here.

sorry, I get defensive about Mark