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Grading Mac's performance thus far


CanadaSteve

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18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As I've brought up before, there are some positions that are the hardest &/or most expensive to find individual good, young starters. The importance of hitting paydirt on these players is obvious. As we enter his 3rd offseason, grade Maccagnan on filling these (previously-vacant) positions with younger players, through the draft or FA, that have a future longer than 1-2 years:

  1. QB
  2. Outside Pass Rushing DE-OLB
  3. CB1
  4. LT

The way GMs try to avoid paying the absolute highest, top dollar for an upcoming FA - and to avoid potentially losing a FA outright - is to lock up the player when there's still a year left on his rookie deal (or when he's playing under a 1 yr team option, RFA tag, or other expiring contract). Name all the players with whom this was done with great success. Here are some names to get you started:

  1. Snacks
  2. Mo (or Sheldon; take your pick)
  3. Winters
  4. Enunwa (it's only Jan 31, of course, but he's eligible for an extension this year)

Free agency is an exciting time for teams and its fans. For a rebuilding team with money, it's a chance to not just patch some immediate holes, but do so in a way that they won't become holes again for another 3-4 years or more (more than enough time for the full development of draft picks into starters). Since none of these players were signed for just 1 year (or signed with the intention of dumping them after only 1-2 years), as we enter year 3 please judge the 3+ year success/potential of these veteran signings:

  1. Revis
  2. Skrine
  3. Cromartie
  4. Gilchrist
  5. Harris
  6. Carpenter :) 
  7. Wilkerson (we declined undisclosed, but surely not low, pick(s) to re-sign him)
  8. B. Marshall (traded a pick to get him)
  9. Fitzpatrick '16, if Maccagnan had his way

Which of the following players are you now happy with the decision to retain instead of trading away or just cutting outright when a well-timed opportunity was there?

  1. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2015
  2. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2016
  3. Keeping Sheldon in mid-season 2016
  4. Keeping injured Giacomini in late Aug 2016
  5. Keeping Geno in late Aug 2016
  6. Re-signing Fitzpatrick in late July 2016

I agree that many of his decisions were questionable, but I can see how he got to where he got to.  

I also believe that both Woody and Bowles influenced him to make decisions that he would not have otherwise made.  If he was picking Leo, he should have unloaded one of the others.  The following players were available immediately after Devin Smith (a perceived need now pick):

2 37 New York Jets Devin Smith  WR Ohio State Big Ten  
  2 38 Washington Redskins Preston Smith  DE Mississippi State SEC  
  2 39 Chicago Bears Eddie Goldman  DT Florida State ACC  
  2 40 Tennessee Titans Dorial Green-Beckham  WR Missouri SEC from New York Giants  [R2 - 2]
  2 41 Carolina Panthers Devin Funchess  WR Michigan Big Ten from St. Louis [R2 - 3]
  2 42 Atlanta Falcons Jalen Collins  CB LSU SEC  
  2 43 Houston Texans Benardrick McKinney  ILB Mississippi State SEC from Cleveland [R2 - 4]
  2 44 New Orleans Saints Hau'oli Kikaha  OLB Washington Pac-12  
  2 45 Minnesota Vikings Eric Kendricks  ILB UCLA Pac-12 2014 Butkus Award and Lott Trophy winner
  2 46 San Francisco 49ers Jaquiski Tartt  S Samford SoCon  
  2 47 Philadelphia Eagles Eric Rowe  CB Utah Pac-12 from Miami [R2 - 5]
  2 48 San Diego Chargers Denzel Perryman  ILB Miami (FL) ACC  
  2 49 Kansas City Chiefs Mitch Morse  G Missouri SEC  
  2 50 Buffalo Bills Ronald Darby  CB Florida State ACC

I think by next Thanksgiving we will have a better idea of where this management team is going and what they learned.  I am really hoping that they can build on their experiences of the last 2 years.  I am neither optimistic or pessimistic-I am open-minded.

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I think alot of people underestimate the damage done by Idzik. Mac took over a team with high priced aging veterans and zero depth or young talent thanks to Idzik's  drafting. He had a million holes to fill and had to use middling free agents (Skrine, Gilchrist, McClendon, Jenkins) to fill holes in the roster. The smart thing he did here was construct contracts he could walk away from in two years. Most of these guys were ok to hold the fort (Skrine was fine in slot but blew when moved outside) but now hopefully we can see younger players step up.

I also think people overreact to the Jenkins contract. 2yrs/$7M for a veteran is nothing in todays NFL. Even getting nothing for that contract had minimal overall effect.

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imo before you look at only mac's perfromance you have to take into account the previous few seasons including a couple of tanny's along with idiotzik.  the last 3 rex seasons were not pretty. for the past 5 seasons they've been 6-10, 8-8, 4-12, 10-6, and 5-11.  after rex was launched the general concensus was that the jets were a 6-10 to 8-8 team.  they won 10.  after 2015 and given the "stronger" schedule the concensus was still 6-10 to 8-8 team and that's geno or fitz starting.  so over the past two seasons, the jets have actually performed about as well as expected.  now i know this is fairly simplistic.  i know i predicted a much better record based on last season's performance and, in truth, they were maybe 3 to 5 plays away from being 8-8 in spite of missing some pieces and having a porous secondary.

so what do i see?  i see a team that really only needs a few key pieces, qb being one of them, and some sound coaching to win more than 8.  and i would give mac a fairly high grade so far because he is finding players that have talent and can be used to build a really good team.  he can build this grade much higher is hack pans out or he grabs more than one impact player with this year's draft. and the whole notion of rebuild is overblown.  teams are in a perpetual state of rebuilding.  very few teams have the luxury of having their qb play well for 15 seasons.  historically, i don't think the jets have had any qb last more than 5 seasons in a row.

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As I've brought up before, there are some positions that are the hardest &/or most expensive to find individual good, young starters. The importance of hitting paydirt on these players is obvious. As we enter his 3rd offseason, grade Maccagnan on filling these (previously-vacant) positions with younger players, through the draft or FA, that have a future longer than 1-2 years:

  1. QB (D+)
  2. Outside Pass Rushing DE-OLB (B)
  3. CB1 (C)
  4. LT (D)

The way GMs try to avoid paying the absolute highest, top dollar for an upcoming FA - and to avoid potentially losing a FA outright - is to lock up the player when there's still a year left on his rookie deal (or when he's playing under a 1 yr team option, RFA tag, or other expiring contract). Name all the players with whom this was done with great success. Here are some names to get you started:

(And as I have said before, the problem with that is you don't have the maximum amount of data to decide whether to keep him. Suppose you lock him up with a year left and he decides to retire (as many young players are seeming to do these days). What then? Suppose he goes downwards after 3 seasons. 

Free agency is an exciting time for teams and its fans. For a rebuilding team with money, it's a chance to not just patch some immediate holes, but do so in a way that they won't become holes again for another 3-4 years or more(That depends on what the market is. If younger skilled players were on the market, like Janoris Jenkins, then it would be a different story (more than enough time for the full development of draft picks into starters). Since none of these players were signed for just 1 year (or signed with the intention of dumping them after only 1-2 years), as we enter year 3 please judge the 3+ year success/potential of these veteran signings:

  1. Revis (Best CB on the market that year)
  2. Skrine (Was playing out of position the whole year last year)
  3. Cromartie (Gone after 1 with minimal damage)
  4. Gilchrist (Played well his first year and regressed)
  5. Harris 
  6. Carpenter :) 
  7. Wilkerson (we declined undisclosed, but surely not low, pick(s) to re-sign him) (Keystone player for the future)
  8. B. Marshall (traded a pick to get him) 
  9. Fitzpatrick '16, if Maccagnan had his way (You have no proof of that)

Which of the following players are you now happy with the decision to retain instead of trading away or just cutting outright when a well-timed opportunity was there?

  1. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2015 (Yes)
  2. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2016  (Yes)
  3. Keeping Sheldon in mid-season 2016 (Cowboys may regret not trading for him, especially since their 1 was going to be low)
  4. Keeping injured Giacomini in late Aug 2016 (No)
  5. Keeping Geno in late Aug 2016 (Yes)
  6. Re-signing Fitzpatrick in late July 2016 (Yes, given the fact that he was coming off a career year.. He deserved a second year)

Here you go

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Why on earth would anyone consider Devin Smith a need now pick? The team had Decker and just traded for Marshall. They should have had a decent feel for Enunwa and Shaq Evans and were still carrying Jeremy Kerley. What on earth did they need Smith for? They went full on shotgun at WR also trading for DeVier Posey during the draft. They truly sad thing is that they traded their 5th for Marshall and a 7th which they promptly traded for Zac Stacey. When their Bears used that pick, Jay Ajayi and Stefon Diggs were both still on the board. Who would you rather have for your rebuilding team? The list of players available between when the Posey pick was on the board and when they took Mauldin is likewise something to consider, though I guess we'd all be killing him if he took Eli Harold. In addition to Posey, they also got the Jarvis Harrison pick and the pick they gave up to trade up one spot for Petty in the trade down, so there is that...

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Why on earth would anyone consider Devin Smith a need now pick? The team had Decker and just traded for Marshall. They should have had a decent feel for Enunwa and Shaq Evans and were still carrying Jeremy Kerley. What on earth did they need Smith for? They went full on shotgun at WR also trading for DeVier Posey during the draft. They truly sad thing is that they traded their 5th for Marshall and a 7th which they promptly traded for Zac Stacey. When their Bears used that pick, Jay Ajayi and Stefon Diggs were both still on the board. Who would you rather have for your rebuilding team? The list of players available between when the Posey pick was on the board and when they took Mauldin is likewise something to consider, though I guess we'd all be killing him if he took Eli Harold. In addition to Posey, they also got the Jarvis Harrison pick and the pick they gave up to trade up one spot for Petty in the trade down, so there is that...

Long range targets.

Plus why would we draft a RB when we already had 2 in the backfield?

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They truly sad thing is that they traded their 5th for Marshall and a 7th which they promptly traded for Zac Stacey. When their Bears used that pick, Jay Ajayi and Stefon Diggs were both still on the board.

So you are saying that at the start of the 5th round in 2015 YOU KNEW Ajayi and Diggs were going to be starting caliber players?

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Long range targets.

Plus why would we draft a RB when we already had 2 in the backfield?

Hahahahahaahahahahahahahaha!

Why would would draft a RB when we had 2?  Why would we trade a draft pick for one when we already had 2 in the backfield?  Why would we sign Stevan Ridley (pre-draft) when we already had 2 in the backfield?  Long range targets are what a GM gets paid to find. It was a 5th round pick.  We used one on Jarvis Harrison, a sh*t pick with a sh*t attitude at a position where we already had a bunch of bodies. 

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9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Why on earth would anyone consider Devin Smith a need now pick? The team had Decker and just traded for Marshall. They should have had a decent feel for Enunwa and Shaq Evans and were still carrying Jeremy Kerley. What on earth did they need Smith for? They went full on shotgun at WR also trading for DeVier Posey during the draft. They truly sad thing is that they traded their 5th for Marshall and a 7th which they promptly traded for Zac Stacey. When their Bears used that pick, Jay Ajayi and Stefon Diggs were both still on the board. Who would you rather have for your rebuilding team? The list of players available between when the Posey pick was on the board and when they took Mauldin is likewise something to consider, though I guess we'd all be killing him if he took Eli Harold. In addition to Posey, they also got the Jarvis Harrison pick and the pick they gave up to trade up one spot for Petty in the trade down, so there is that...

Devin Smith was the DeSean Jackson/Brandin Cooks pick that we missed.

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Just now, 20andOut said:

So you are saying that at the start of the 5th round in 2015 YOU KNEW Ajayi and Diggs were going to be starting caliber players?

That is what the GM gets paid for, we aren't supposed to rate the draft in one year, but part of that is actually using the picks, not getting a bunch of vets.  I actually liked Diggs a lot.  Ajayi may have had some injury and character concerns, but plenty of people had him graded out high.  I think many rated him as a 2nd rounder.  That is what the GM gets paid for, not to pay tens of millions to aging malcontents that have been run out of several lockerrooms. 

Marshall was run out of Denver, Miami and Chicago and Stacey shot his way out of St Louis.  The 5th round pick Harrision was well advertised to be a knucklehead. I don't think this group is particularly worried about character and that may be a mistake. 

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Just now, varjet said:

I agree that many of his decisions were questionable, but I can see how he got to where he got to.  

I also believe that both Woody and Bowles influenced him to make decisions that he would not have otherwise made.  If he was picking Leo, he should have unloaded one of the others.  The following players were available immediately after Devin Smith (a perceived need now pick):

2 37 New York Jets Devin Smith  WR Ohio State Big Ten  
  2 38 Washington Redskins Preston Smith  DE Mississippi State SEC  
  2 39 Chicago Bears Eddie Goldman  DT Florida State ACC  
  2 40 Tennessee Titans Dorial Green-Beckham  WR Missouri SEC from New York Giants  [R2 - 2]
  2 41 Carolina Panthers Devin Funchess  WR Michigan Big Ten from St. Louis [R2 - 3]
  2 42 Atlanta Falcons Jalen Collins  CB LSU SEC  
  2 43 Houston Texans Benardrick McKinney  ILB Mississippi State SEC from Cleveland [R2 - 4]
  2 44 New Orleans Saints Hau'oli Kikaha  OLB Washington Pac-12  
  2 45 Minnesota Vikings Eric Kendricks  ILB UCLA Pac-12 2014 Butkus Award and Lott Trophy winner
  2 46 San Francisco 49ers Jaquiski Tartt  S Samford SoCon  
  2 47 Philadelphia Eagles Eric Rowe  CB Utah Pac-12 from Miami [R2 - 5]
  2 48 San Diego Chargers Denzel Perryman  ILB Miami (FL) ACC  
  2 49 Kansas City Chiefs Mitch Morse  G Missouri SEC  
  2 50 Buffalo Bills Ronald Darby  CB Florida State ACC

I think by next Thanksgiving we will have a better idea of where this management team is going and what they learned.  I am really hoping that they can build on their experiences of the last 2 years.  I am neither optimistic or pessimistic-I am open-minded.

Yeah I know. You have always had this conspiracy theory going on in your head where Woody was the one really telling his GM which players to sign & draft, how much to spend on each, and which to stay away from. In your world, all bad moves trace back to Woody, and all good moves are done without his knowledge despite his overbearing input & meddling. Convenient position to take, if also a silly one even you have to realize is untrue.

To your above post/chart, I've seen this tactic before. To that I say there are always moves a GM can make. He can move up to take a better player, if he sees how the board is shaping up, or he can trade down if he doesn't believe the player is worthy of selecting there. For example:

  • the Giants picked at #40 (3 picks after us) yet they ended up with Landon Collins.
  • the Rams picked at #41 (4 picks after us) yet they decided to trade down to #57 and picked an extra 3rd & 6th round pick. At #57 they drafted Havenstein, who isn't Damien Woody II at RT, but he's a hell of a lot better than Breno Giacomini has been these past 2 years and cost a good amount less.
  • Cleveland picked at #43 (6 picks after us) and dropped down 8 slots, picking up extra 4th & 5th round picks in the process.

Or outside the draft, consider Maccagnan went into the season with Ryan Clady at LT, yet Ryan Clady was not a free agent in 2016. How could this happen?

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31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As I've brought up before, there are some positions that are the hardest &/or most expensive to find individual good, young starters. The importance of hitting paydirt on these players is obvious. As we enter his 3rd offseason, grade Maccagnan on filling these (previously-vacant) positions with younger players, through the draft or FA, that have a future longer than 1-2 years:

  1. QB
  2. Outside Pass Rushing DE-OLB
  3. CB1
  4. LT

The way GMs try to avoid paying the absolute highest, top dollar for an upcoming FA - and to avoid potentially losing a FA outright - is to lock up the player when there's still a year left on his rookie deal (or when he's playing under a 1 yr team option, RFA tag, or other expiring contract). Name all the players with whom this was done with great success. Here are some names to get you started:

  1. Snacks
  2. Mo (or Sheldon; take your pick)
  3. Winters
  4. Enunwa (it's only Jan 31, of course, but he's eligible for an extension this year)

Free agency is an exciting time for teams and its fans. For a rebuilding team with money, it's a chance to not just patch some immediate holes, but do so in a way that they won't become holes again for another 3-4 years or more (more than enough time for the full development of draft picks into starters). Since none of these players were signed for just 1 year (or signed with the intention of dumping them after only 1-2 years), as we enter year 3 please judge the 3+ year success/potential of these veteran signings:

  1. Revis
  2. Skrine
  3. Cromartie
  4. Gilchrist
  5. Harris
  6. Carpenter :) 
  7. Wilkerson (we declined undisclosed, but surely not low, pick(s) to re-sign him)
  8. B. Marshall (traded a pick to get him)
  9. Fitzpatrick '16, if Maccagnan had his way

Which of the following players are you now happy with the decision to retain instead of trading away or just cutting outright when a well-timed opportunity was there?

  1. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2015
  2. Keeping Mo in Spring of 2016
  3. Keeping Sheldon in mid-season 2016
  4. Keeping injured Giacomini in late Aug 2016
  5. Keeping Geno in late Aug 2016
  6. Re-signing Fitzpatrick in late July 2016

okay except in the case of a guy like enunwa, his agent is reading the papers too.  yes he could advise enunwa to take a contract now (if he was that set he could also approach the jets as opposed to the jets making an offer) but he could wait until the end of the season and try the open market. no telling which way it will go until it gets there.  they also have to properly assess the player.  winters performed well this past season but he also knocked himself out of a couple of games with that stupid head butt.  he's not worth anything while he's under concussion protocol.

as for the free agent, i think cromartie was the biggest question mark with regard to you 3 year planning.  he was off and on during his last seasons with the jets and made a nice come back with the cards.  revis is going into year 3 coming off a bad season.  i don't think anyone expected it even though it was clear in 2015 that he had declined a bit.  it remains to be seen if they keep him on for 2017.  it's really up to revis to come back with a better attitude and be in shape. skrine has some talent and needs to be put in win situations.  wilk may have been injured and that would've hampered his play.  marshall is still viable although a little over priced. gilchrist is an average free safety.  the jets have been running through safeties so theirs no reason he was going to be around for a long time. fitz? he was supposed to be the vet on the bench.  based on his 2015 performance he got a good pay bump.  in hindsight resigning fitz was a mistake because the team was already settled with geno until training camp.  the same goes for sheldon.  giacomini? they probably should have cut him.  he was no use sitting in the whirl pool.  fitz? the record doesn't belong to fitz.  every part of the team underacheived and stopped making plays.  fitz had a good season in 2014 until injured and then backed it up with a jet best season in 2015.  there was no reason to think he wouldn't have done equally as well.

as for the trades, it's all about what the trades actually were.  if someone who knows says mac could've traded wilk for a 1 and a 3 and didn't then you just have to wonder what he was thinking.  if the trade was for a 3rd or below then mac is right for keeping the guy.  by many accounts wilk was one of the top 5 linemen in 2015.

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14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Why on earth would anyone consider Devin Smith a need now pick? The team had Decker and just traded for Marshall. They should have had a decent feel for Enunwa and Shaq Evans and were still carrying Jeremy Kerley. What on earth did they need Smith for? They went full on shotgun at WR also trading for DeVier Posey during the draft. They truly sad thing is that they traded their 5th for Marshall and a 7th which they promptly traded for Zac Stacey. When their Bears used that pick, Jay Ajayi and Stefon Diggs were both still on the board. Who would you rather have for your rebuilding team? The list of players available between when the Posey pick was on the board and when they took Mauldin is likewise something to consider, though I guess we'd all be killing him if he took Eli Harold. In addition to Posey, they also got the Jarvis Harrison pick and the pick they gave up to trade up one spot for Petty in the trade down, so there is that...

Come on. Maccagnan doesn't draft for need. I've only read that 5000x here. He's cemented as a pure "best available player regardless of position" because he once took Leonard Williams. Pay attention.

As far as Marshall, I was fine with doing that move, for a rebuilding team, if he's going to be used to further the development of a young QB (better wepponz than Chaz Schillens et al). To waste it on Ryan Fitzpatrick (twice) and 2 draft projects that were each 2+ years away from being field-worthy (to the extent they'll ever be such) was criminal.

If you're going to do that with him, then don't bother. Save the pick on a low-percentage draftee, and save the $15-20M in cap room to use on someone who'll be here for more than 2 years.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I know. You have always had this conspiracy theory going on in your head where Woody was the one really telling his GM which players to sign & draft, how much to spend on each, and which to stay away from. In your world, all bad moves trace back to Woody, and all good moves are done without his knowledge despite his overbearing input & meddling. Convenient position to take, if also a silly one even you have to realize is untrue.

To your above post/chart, I've seen this tactic before. To that I say there are always moves a GM can make. He can move up to take a better player, if he sees how the board is shaping up, or he can trade down if he doesn't believe the player is worthy of selecting there. For example:

  • the Giants picked at #40 (3 picks after us) yet they ended up with Landon Collins.
  • the Rams picked at #41 (4 picks after us) yet they decided to trade down to #57 and picked an extra 3rd & 6th round pick. At #57 they drafted Havenstein, who isn't Damien Woody II at RT, but he's a hell of a lot better than Breno Giacomini has been these past 2 years and cost a good amount less.
  • Cleveland picked at #43 (6 picks after us) and dropped down 8 slots, picking up extra 4th & 5th round picks in the process.

Or outside the draft, consider Maccagnan went into the season with Ryan Clady at LT, yet Ryan Clady was not a free agent in 2016. How could this happen?

I went to where I said I was not going to go.

Through the 2015 and 2016 seasons, the Jets (all that they are) were trying to be competitive.  It was pretty good in 2015 and crashed in 2016.

We all have our theories as to whose fault was what.

Very few people on this board, which collectively is pretty astute, think the Jets could practically put together a playoff team that is long term successful in 2017.

Over the next 11 or so months we will know what the Jets Braintrust (if that is the right term) is up to.

I am open-minded, but I will find it tough to believe that paying big money for a Romo, Cutler or Kaepernick is the right move to build a sustainable winner.

Game on.

 

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Come on. Maccagnan doesn't draft for need. I've only read that 5000x here. He's cemented as a pure "best available player regardless of position" because he once took Leonard Williams. Pay attention.

As far as Marshall, I was fine with doing that move, for a rebuilding team, if he's going to be used to further the development of a young QB (better wepponz than Chaz Schillens et al). To waste it on Ryan Fitzpatrick (twice) and 2 draft projects that were each 2+ years away from being field-worthy (to the extent they'll ever be such) was criminal.

If you're going to do that with him, then don't bother. Save the pick on a low-percentage draftee, and save the $15-20M in cap room to use on someone who'll be here for more than 2 years.

IIRC, some of the money had to be spent because Idzik spent so little. 

People act like these moves were made in a vacuum.  He didn't get Clady to fill a need.  He traded D'Brick and a 5th for 1/2 a season of Clady, a 7th and some amount of money ($2-4M).  Was it worth it? I thought it was worse, because I thought Clady was getting $10M for 2016 and 2017, but it looks like 2016 was in the $6M range.

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1 minute ago, rangerous said:

okay except in the case of a guy like enunwa, his agent is reading the papers too.  yes he could advise enunwa to take a contract now (if he was that set he could also approach the jets as opposed to the jets making an offer) but he could wait until the end of the season and try the open market. no telling which way it will go until it gets there.  they also have to properly assess the player.  winters performed well this past season but he also knocked himself out of a couple of games with that stupid head butt.  he's not worth anything while he's under concussion protocol.

as for the free agent, i think cromartie was the biggest question mark with regard to you 3 year planning.  he was off and on during his last seasons with the jets and made a nice come back with the cards.  revis is going into year 3 coming off a bad season.  i don't think anyone expected it even though it was clear in 2015 that he had declined a bit.  it remains to be seen if they keep him on for 2017.  it's really up to revis to come back with a better attitude and be in shape. skrine has some talent and needs to be put in win situations.  wilk may have been injured and that would've hampered his play.  marshall is still viable although a little over priced. gilchrist is an average free safety.  the jets have been running through safeties so theirs no reason he was going to be around for a long time. fitz? he was supposed to be the vet on the bench.  based on his 2015 performance he got a good pay bump.  in hindsight resigning fitz was a mistake because the team was already settled with geno until training camp.  the same goes for sheldon.  giacomini? they probably should have cut him.  he was no use sitting in the whirl pool.  fitz? the record doesn't belong to fitz.  every part of the team underacheived and stopped making plays.  fitz had a good season in 2014 until injured and then backed it up with a jet best season in 2015.  there was no reason to think he wouldn't have done equally as well.

as for the trades, it's all about what the trades actually were.  if someone who knows says mac could've traded wilk for a 1 and a 3 and didn't then you just have to wonder what he was thinking.  if the trade was for a 3rd or below then mac is right for keeping the guy.  by many accounts wilk was one of the top 5 linemen in 2015.

Re Enunwa, this is nothing new. Yet other players do get locked up early as well. What Enunwa's agent also knows is that his client can have a major step back, or career-altering injury, and end up with nothing. Agents and players didn't go through some awakening in the last year or two. It's always been like this. 

Re Cromartie, he made the pro bowl on name recognition. He was beaten often with Arizona, and that's with Peterson on the other side.

Revis is not coming back with a better attitude, except that it may be impossible to come back with a worse one.

Skrine having some talent is irrelevant. They all have talent, even the bad ones.

Wilk was hampered by his crappy attitude. And if he's that injured, then don't pay him nearly $20M for an injured season. Otherwise this year is a waste, the team is effectively paying him $30M next year, and he ain't worth anywhere near that.

Marshall is going to be off the team.

Gilchrist is going to be off the team. Past Jets history is not an excuse for screwing up by signing current and future players that are regrettable.

Fitz was fine in 2015, stupid to re-sign in 2016 unless you were fooled by stats that hid so much of his ineptitude. He made so many bad throws that were rescued by receivers, rescued by defenders that let him off the hook, and by playing bad opponents in general. But even for 2015, whether him or Geno, what kind of an asshat goes and spends like $200M on old FAs when the only QB on the roster is Geno Smith, and your big move is trading a conditional 7th rounder for Ryan Fitzpatrick. A fool does this.

"By many accounts" lots of things happen that aren't repeatable. He was coming off a broken leg and apparently the team knew he had a sh*tty attitude that the public was shielded from knowing about. It's not just the draft pick that the team could have gotten. It's the cheap ~2nd draft pick (give or take) plus the $17M not-injured, superstar player elsewhere the team could have gotten.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

IIRC, some of the money had to be spent because Idzik spent so little. 

People act like these moves were made in a vacuum.  He didn't get Clady to fill a need.  He traded D'Brick and a 5th for 1/2 a season of Clady, a 7th and some amount of money ($2-4M).  Was it worth it? I thought it was worse, because I thought Clady was getting $10M for 2016 and 2017, but it looks like 2016 was in the $6M range.

I never said not to spend any money. It's that spending money on guys who clearly weren't going to be here past 1-3 years was stewpid.

Had he used money to lock up young players - whether it was Mo at a couple million less than he got a year later, Snacks, or other teams' FAs - rather than the thirtysomething players he went all-in on, as though he had a QB and the Jets were a win-now-or-bust team.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I never said not to spend any money. It's that spending money on guys who clearly weren't going to be here past 1-3 years was stewpid.

Had he used money to lock up young players - whether it was Mo at a couple million less than he got a year later, Snacks, or other teams' FAs - rather than the thirtysomething players he went all-in on, as though he had a QB and the Jets were a win-now-or-bust team.

While I agree with you in principle, the fanbase and market makes it hard to do that

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10 minutes ago, varjet said:

I went to where I said I was not going to go.

Through the 2015 and 2016 seasons, the Jets (all that they are) were trying to be competitive.  It was pretty good in 2015 and crashed in 2016.

We all have our theories as to whose fault was what.

Very few people on this board, which collectively is pretty astute, think the Jets could practically put together a playoff team that is long term successful in 2017.

Over the next 11 or so months we will know what the Jets Braintrust (if that is the right term) is up to.

I am open-minded, but I will find it tough to believe that paying big money for a Romo, Cutler or Kaepernick is the right move to build a sustainable winner.

Game on.

 

Obvious: you don't go all-in on mega-expensive 30+ yr old players, and others' younger + overpriced garbage, when you don't have a QB. I will not be happy if they pay big money for any of those 3 you mention. I can't see any of them are bringing a SB to the Jets.

A GM can spend when he's still looking for a solution at QB. It had better be all on offense, though, if they're older players. Just don't then waste the pickup by trotting out Ryan Fitzpatrick (or the above 3) for the duration of that older veteran's usefulness.

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18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Obvious: you don't go all-in on mega-expensive 30+ yr old players, and others' younger + overpriced garbage, when you don't have a QB. I will not be happy if they pay big money for any of those 3 you mention. I can't see any of them are bringing a SB to the Jets.

A GM can spend when he's still looking for a solution at QB. It had better be all on offense, though, if they're older players. Just don't then waste the pickup by trotting out Ryan Fitzpatrick (or the above 3) for the duration of that older veteran's usefulness.

It's not the sh*tty older vet QB that I have the problem with.  It's the sh*tty older vet QB that isn't a bargain.  The problem is the price.  You win by having value.  Fitzpatrick at $3M is value, at $12M? Not so much. 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

His team just won 5 games, they have no identity, a defense of mismatched assholes, a moron head coach, the inmates run the asylum, they have 1 star, no QB and is in a rebuild 2 years after a rebuild.

He deserves an A+ damn it!!!!!

 

I feel the same way!!!!!

Image result for standing ovation gifs

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The team is 15-17 under him. They are absurdly thin on young talent and he's drafted one guy that's even above average, and he honestly lucked into that. We are no closer to finding a franchise quarterback and the two that he has drafted with moderately high picks don't look like they are going to pan out. His coach is probably getting fired at the end of the year, we just scapegoated yet another offensive coordinator, and it's hard to find much to like in any of his free agent signings. Barring a miracle in 2017, it's probably also safe to say that the Jets will have missed the playoffs for all 3 years of his tenure.

I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't want him to succeed, but going on anything empirical it's hard to judge his tenure so far as anything but pretty bad. If he can't find a quarterback within a year or two I don't think there is any doubt that we'll be looking at the gazillionth regime change this century.

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B+?? For real? If A and B+ were the only two answer choices, I would leave the grade blank. 

Enough of sucking up to a GM who inherited a boatload of cap and some high draft picks. He did less than expected. When you miss a bunch of highly paid players via FA or from your own team, you need to look at the GM and be like "this isn't a draft. Its the FA and you picked the top of the line players and still failed. Why?"

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6 hours ago, JiF said:

His team just won 5 games, they have no identity, a defense of mismatched assholes, a moron head coach, the inmates run the asylum, they have 1 star, no QB and is in a rebuild 2 years after a rebuild.

He deserves an A+ damn it!!!!!

 

It's the coffee

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We can't judge him based off the Hack pick yet because the Hack situation is going exactly how most draft experts figured and hoped it would. Hacks got some raw talent, good size and a rocket arm. However his footwork needs work and he needs time to adjust to the game, We need to see how Hack does this year before we truly give Mac a grade.

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Im not sure how anyone could give a grade better than a C for Mac. At best the Jets are in the same spot where they were with Idzik and Idzik was terrible. Hes not as bad with the media or anything like that as Idzik was, but from a roster standpoint the Jets are one of the oldest and slowest teams in the NFL. The goal was to use all this cap room to build a competitive team while the young players developed underneath expect the draft picks pretty much all stink as did Idziks junk. Two years and one starter is never going to lead to a successful run. How crazy is it that the Jets best 2nd round draft pick since 2012 is Stephen Hill who was a complete bust, but its been even worse since then.  If this doesnt change the front office will be changed over again next season.

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8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You lumped in things to make a bad move look better. Take Fitzpatrick. There were 2 transactions: the move to trade for him in the first place (which clearly worked out, relative to what was surrendered to get him); then there was the move to re-sign him, including some 5 months of chasing after him prior to that, which was an epic SOJ blunder. Not to mention his amateurish, petty, public "demand" that Fitz show up by such-and-such time of day right after Fitz had already agreed to the contract. It's not like he agreed to it and then stayed home & stalled for the next week, or had given any indication that he'd do so. Fitz agreed to it and 5 minutes later the GM announces - to the media - the next-day ultimatum deadline for actually signing it, in a feeble attempt to hide how he was the one who'd given in & caved. A secure professional doesn't do that to his chased-after player; an insecure child behaves that way.

Same thing with lumping together Leonard Williams with retaining both Sheldon & Mo. The attempt here - consciously or otherwise - is to show on balance there was no all-bad move. 

It's also intellectually dishonest to declare obvious high pick letdowns/busts as otherwise with a "jury is out" excuse, like with Devon Smith, while declaring others already to be successes even though they haven't played very much. I mean really, Deon Simon = Snacks now? Simon didn't play as a rookie (he was released before October, but no one else wanted him), and then was in on under 20% of the defensive snaps in year 2. Snacks played in 5 games as a rookie (sparingly, but the team had both Pouha & Ellis, and that's far from getting cut) before starting all 16 games in his sophomore season. They are not on par, as Simon isn't nearly on Harrison's level. Simon was fine (not great) in 2016, and BTW he's already going to be 27 this summer (he's only 1.5 yrs younger than Snacks). So, "jury is still" out if a draftee is bad/useless for 1-2 seasons. But if they have a few good games in 1-2 years then they're "great picks" -- gotcha.

You tout "re-signing" Snacks among his 2015 accomplishments. As opposed to what -- inexplicably letting him go for no reason at all, while we retained his rights as a RFA and didn't have another NT on the roster? That was an F-minus move, to only tag him and then let him go a year later, while we had so much leverage to extend him. You glossed over it like he was some forgettable player -- actually worse than that: you mentioned it as some sort of "good" move. It was a good move in comparison to what?

The Jarvis Jenkins acquisition was just "meh"? If he's "meh" what does someone have to do to be horrendous, other than maybe a center blood-diarrhea-ing onto his QB's hands on MNF? The Jenkins contract/signing was legitimately one of the worst in all of football in 2016. Even worse than embarrassingly bad deals for Fitzpatrick and Mo. "Meh" lol. Why not go into the reason for his acquisition? It's skipped over as though it never happened.

For the 1000000th time, Brick did not "suddenly retire" and thus leave Maccagnan with "no choice" -- Maccagnan lost that excuse when he'd just approached said player with a "take a $6m pay cut or we're releasing you" ultimatum. That Brick chose to retire is irrelevant. The end result was no different than if Brick, without retiring, had merely said 'no' to the pay cut demand.

I'm stopping there. For now, lol.

Talk about playing it extra Charmin-soft on Maccagnan to forward an obvious agenda to paint him as competent. Wow.

I did address the first two things.  I said the Fitzpatrick fiasco of the second year, which might very well have been brought about by Bowles declaring Fitz a starter.  I see Woody all over that decision, and even though Mac is the GM, he has a boss.  I also said right off the start once Williams was drafted, Mo or Sheldon should have been moved for assets, and I did not like the move. 

We get it Sperm, you hate the guy.

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3 hours ago, j4jets said:

B+?? For real? If A and B+ were the only two answer choices, I would leave the grade blank. 

Enough of sucking up to a GM who inherited a boatload of cap and some high draft picks. He did less than expected. When you miss a bunch of highly paid players via FA or from your own team, you need to look at the GM and be like "this isn't a draft. Its the FA and you picked the top of the line players and still failed. Why?"

Sorry, my judgement.  I don't base it on a bad season after Jet fans drank the Kool-Aid and believed we were going anywhere this year.  I will see another draft and where the first draft players are (you know, being judged after three seasons, like the guys who actually work in this industry all agree is when a draft should be evaluated).

Contrary to popular belief, I am not making excuses for Mac.  I think he has done a decent job.  And for the record, I did not agree with him getting Exec of the Year.  To me, Steven Keim was ahead of him.  But, I guess it isn't popular right now stating that making is doing a decent job.

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Decent is a good description. His performance has to be evaluated within the reality of his situation. He came into a team that had very little organization and a roster that had virtually nothing working for it. The roster didn't just lack playmakers, it lacked years of drafting serviceable depth. Even with the draft picks and cap space the first year he had fewer resources than what was necessary to put together a team that even vaguely resembled a pro team. Truthfully it may take years more to completely shed the damage caused by Tannenbaum's last few years and Idzik. Then add on all the other problems we've had over the past two years that he's had to deal with (e.g. Geno, Fitz, Brick, Bowles, Bowles, Bowles). He has had to dig out of a deep hole and has not done it perfectly.

Mac has IMO had generally good ideas for how to improve the roster but execution has fallen short. For example, he realized right away we needed help in the worst way at WR and has thrown a lot of resources at that position. But then we burned good picks on guys like Devin Smith. 

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16 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Uhhhhhh.....no.

I remember I gave him a B for drafting and went into detail why.

FA's is interesting. Some of his FA decisions have been questionable (Jenkins, Forte to an extent). Fitz and Revis given the situation AT THE TIME, are not really bothering to me.

 Yet you also have to include UDFAs with FAs. And that he has done really well in.

So I would give him a C+-B- for FAs.

Meaning that his overall grade is probably a B-

You giving him a B for drafting is not really a meaningful measure of success.

He, thus far has 1 good pick in his top 4, and that was when the best player in the draft fell to him.  Otherwise, he's drafted a linebacker who is under performing, a QB not good enough to make 3rd string, and a WR who can't get on the field.

He has added some adequate players in later rounds, but that's all they are.  Adequate.  I know we all want to get fired up about Robby Anderson, but the guy's upside appears to be a #3 WR.

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