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Do we, at least, all agree we need a QB?


Pointdexter
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No one is ok going intonext season with Hack, Petty, Geno, and a Hoyer-esque retread, correct? 

Petty looks like a solid back up in the league, to me. And that's not an insult. 

Hack in all honesty is probably out of the league within 3 years.  From where he is now to being an NFL starter would be unprecedented growth and development. 

Geno is Geno. Tons of talent but we all know that's not enough in the NFL.

So can we all agree we should draft one of Watson, Trubisky, Kizer, or Mahomes? Glennon is intriguing at the right cost.

Just curious if there are any fans out there wanting to go into next year with a Petty/Hack/Geno/Hoyer situation. 

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1.  Geno

2.  Petty or random vet

3.  Hack

They can all battle, but my guess is Geno would win the starting gig.

No sense drafting another project QB.  Sure the idea of continuing to draft QBs until you find one sounds great, but there aren't enough reps to go around.  Any new young QB now would go to waste or prevent Hack from getting a fair shot.

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45 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

No one is ok going intonext season with Hack, Petty, Geno, and a Hoyer-esque retread, correct? 

Petty looks like a solid back up in the league, to me. And that's not an insult. 

Hack in all honesty is probably out of the league within 3 years.  From where he is now to being an NFL starter would be unprecedented growth and development. 

Geno is Geno. Tons of talent but we all know that's not enough in the NFL.

So can we all agree we should draft one of Watson, Trubisky, Kizer, or Mahomes? Glennon is intriguing at the right cost.

Just curious if there are any fans out there wanting to go into next year with a Petty/Hack/Geno/Hoyer situation. 

Nope.

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I'm all for giving hackenberg a chance. But I'm also opened to the idea of drafting someone if the jets think petty and hackenberg aren't the guys. 

I'm  not buying any manish Mehta reports or anything on the qbs. I think the jets actions will show how they really feel about the position. 

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First off Gino is no longer a Jet, he is a free agent.

I don't understand everybody giving up on Hack already because one spiteful, just fired coach anonymously said he sucks. None of us, or the media have seen enough of him to make a decision either way.

Lastly as far as the draft the unanimous opinion seems to be that none of these guys have first round grades even though three of the four mentioned will be gone early in first. My choice would be Watson,with the experience of two national championship games.  Don't like Kizer, didn't see much if any of Trubinsky(don't like the one season wonder factor) or Mahomes.

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Yes I think we all agree we need a QB.  I am not sure we are in agreement as to how to resolve this issue...  I do not think there is a QB that is worthy of the 6th pick.. As much as I like Watson, I am still not sure.  I want help for the 0-Line....but six is to high for that pick as well.   I am really stumped...If trading down is an option, I would do that.....

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Petty didn't look like a solid backup. He looked like a bad backup. He's still young yet, and can (and should) obviously get better still, but being honest rather than optimistic, that's what he looked like on the field in year 2. Actually Bowles said (in Oct) that Hackenberg wasn't that far behind Petty. He was clearly behind him (i.e. Petty was better last year) but the gap allegedly wasn't very far, and a significant factor was Petty's extra experience.

Also, as has been mentioned, as of today Geno is not due to be on the Jets any more than Glennon (or you or me) once the season officially begins in March. They're both unrestricted free agents.

I would expect something "big" (high cost) to occur at the position. Could be Glennon or another higher-priced veteran. Could be a high draft pick. But I'll give Maccagnan credit for knowing he's not on stable enough ground to go into the season with Petty, Hackenberg, and a low cost retread like Geno or Hoyer.

If he went with such a trio, and 2017 ended in another losing season behind poor QB play, he would definitely (and deservedly) get fired.

I do not think Petty looked all that bad considering his circumstances playing behind makeshift OL, no Decker, and a team that had already given up.   Playing against some teams trying to make playoffs.

I think even the write ups here on jetnation even showed how he was making all the correct reads.  For someone not even allowed to practice that was not a bad showing at all.  Hopefully he recovers in time for OTA 

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6 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I haven't given up on Hackenberg as our long term starter, but he won't be our starter in 2017. I am looking for a FA to be our starter. 

I think what's more certain that he will be or he won't be, is that a much-criticized GM isn't going to bet his career on Hackenberg in 2017. He's taken quite enough heat for the pick without doubling down his career on that move.

If he signs or drafts someone else at great expense, and Hackenberg is the one that emerges as a good starting QB, Maccagnan will still come up smelling like bacon (and deservedly so) 

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petty could be a decent backup hopefully. He has to shake the injury bug though. Not ready to give up on hack yet. He looked amazing his first preseason series, so the talent is there. I would hope he will show progress this coming year. I think Hoyer will be signed as insurance. If they draft another qb then petty may be the odd man out.

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This team goes nowhere without a decent supporting cast around this said future "franchise QB". Also this guy can already be on the roster. Petty shows promise and we have yet to see Hack. Picking any of these top QBs in the 1st round is too big of a reach and too big of a risk with a roster that has a laundry list of needs. Just my .02 cents...

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23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think what's more certain that he will be or he won't be, is that a much-criticized GM isn't going to bet his career on Hackenberg in 2017. He's taken quite enough heat for the pick without doubling down his career on that move.

If he signs or drafts someone else at great expense, and Hackenberg is the one that emerges as a good starting QB, Maccagnan will still come up smelling like bacon (and deservedly so) 

Focusing on Hackenberg, he would seem to be the one certainty as far as the FO keeping him heading into the tests of the off season, and would have to really crap the bed to not make it onto the Opening Day roster.  Whatever questions there are about him and where they picked him, we haven't heard enough negative to cut him without giving him a shot.  No way this GM does that, so that's clear.

As for the rest, I could see them going either way with Petty.

That leaves the draft and FA, and once again the timing of them would argue the Jets will at least try to get a solid vet before the draft.  Doesn't mean they will get one.  How much do they have to give up for someone like Glennon who frankly does not seem like more than a hold the fort guy at best.  I don't see this team going all out to get a quality starter in the draft, meaning taking a chance on that.  maybe they surprise us.

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2 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

Seriously? ok, I'll play along

NO

We shouldnt give up on Hack and Petty already when we have seen so little of them. How about we try something different with this team like developing our own QB instead of waiting to draft "the cure"

Glennon at a reasonable price MIGHT be reasonable..but so far he is no more of a sure thing than Hoyer or Geno was. He is inaccurate and too stiff in the pocket. 

 

Where the heck are these statements coming from really? 

#1. Ability in the pocket. This doesnt look stiff to me...or inaccurate while on the run.

 

 Glennon%20TD%20atl.gif

2015-04-11%2017_38_01.gif

2015-04-11%2017_32_05.gif

4.gif

 

#2. Accuracy. 

2015-04-11%2017_41_18.gif

superb%201.gif

Glennon%20TD%20reversed.gif

6.gif

Evans%20catch.gif

Look at the throw above again from this angle below, this is a 45 yard pass in which he placed the ball in between the receiver and the bounds line effectively taking the defender out of the play. I can show numerous plays if you like of accurate ball placement where Glennon effectively leads the receiver with his pass to take the defender out of the play. Just ask if you'd like to see them. Trust me, this kid is more accurate than given credit. He actually moves his receivers to the locations he wants them to go with his passes. 

Evans%20catch%20v.2.gif

Great%20pass.gif

Lastly, this has to be one of the most impressive accurate throws I've seen from Glennon (Gif below), and its actually an incomplete pass. Glennon throws another ball that travels 45 yards in the air on a rope, however, he's unable to step into the pass because he has a defender rolling up on his legs yet he still has enough arm strength and accuracy to throw this ball 45 yards directly to the eyes of his receiver, though ever so slightly underthrown given the tightness of coverage. The pass is incomplete given just a phenomenal effort by the DB on this play. However, if Glennon would have been able to step into this throw maybe he would have been able to lead the receiver just a bit more to where the pass is out of the reach of the defender. More importantly, this shows that Glennon is able to deliver an accurate ball with alot of action around his feet yet still keep his eyes down the field. 

Nonetheless, for Glennon to be able to throw this ball half the distance of the field on a rope to the eyes of the receiver with a dlineman at his feet while not being able to step up into the pocket shows exactly how accurate this guy truly is, especially in a not so perfect situation. 

45%20yard%20Incomp%20TD.gif

 

There should be a rule, if you talk down about Mike Glennon you need to provide some actual proof. Im getting tired of hearing people talk about how inaccurate Glennon is, how terrible he is in the pocket yet see no examples whatsoever. 

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One thing that stood out to me during the superbowl was the number of young players the Falcon's had. Now, of course they lost, but I couldn't help but think (be reminded really) that coaching is more important in the NFL than any other pro sport. Baseball is dominated by individual matches. A good manager will be that difference between the 5 wins and postseason or not, but not the difference between suck and good. Basketball, 9/10 coaches don't move the needle at all, one way or the other. Hockey, matching lines, how they train, it matters for sure, but not like Football either. Football, with everything from discipline, how hard they train so they execute individually and as a team  and  the offensive and defensive schemes they run is extremely coaching intensive.  (Note, when I'm talking about "coach" in football, I'm referring to the entire staff)

Point of my slight digression here? Certainly you need talent. You need the players who are at least JAG level at each position. Talent matters. But so often on playoff teams, what I see is a handful of truly talented players, then a coach getting the max out of JAG guys with schemes and system. 

And not to denigrate lovable Tom Brady, or the mighty Julian Edleman, but Belichik has done well in games without Brady, and constantly has a smurf slot player who suddenly does really well (Wes Welker, even Danny Woodhead filled that role some). Again, the guys have talent, but more than anything Belichik has a system on offense and defense and he finds players that fit, then plugs them in. I think he scouts talent well. I think he gets above average talent (Brady, Moss etc). I also think a lot of players get rated much higher than they should because Belichik makes them look good. 

I don't like the guy. He comes across like a miserable prick. But you can see this attribute and it shows in other coaches, both in Football and other sports at times. 

Jets need a quarterback, but it would help if the franchise had a real head coach, which they haven't had in forever. Not some overpromoted defensive coordinator. I mean a real coach, with a culture of accountability, discipline and actual system philosophies on both sides of the ball. Then, you need to have that coach and the GM be in sync so the GM provides those players to the coach. OCCASIONALLY, the coach should need to be flexible to fit a player with a different set of strengths into the system, but honestly, most of the time, the system should trade the player who doesn't fit, no matter how great, for more assets and players that do. 

Sure, the Jets will be better if and when they get a better QB. But as long as they retain yet another mediocre coach, what does it really matter? It doesn't. Great coach with average talent and average QB but good system would find a way to be in the playoff hunt yearly, if not a true contender. 

 

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1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

I do not think Petty looked all that bad considering his circumstances playing behind makeshift OL, no Decker, and a team that had already given up.   Playing against some teams trying to make playoffs.

I think even the write ups here on jetnation even showed how he was making all the correct reads.  For someone not even allowed to practice that was not a bad showing at all.  Hopefully he recovers in time for OTA 

There were a lot of elementary mistakes we went over at the time and he was not making "all the correct reads" nor assessing where the pressure was going to come from. Might that improve with time? Of course; it was his first live action. That doesn't mean he played like a solid backup in 2016, before such improvements occur.

Personally I would have liked to see him inserted a month or more earlier, but Bowles/Maccagnan instead wanted to bring back Geno as the #2 QB, which indirectly led to Petty's injury. Well, his first injury anyway. 

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1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

Focusing on Hackenberg, he would seem to be the one certainty as far as the FO keeping him heading into the tests of the off season, and would have to really crap the bed to not make it onto the Opening Day roster.  Whatever questions there are about him and where they picked him, we haven't heard enough negative to cut him without giving him a shot.  No way this GM does that, so that's clear.

As for the rest, I could see them going either way with Petty.

That leaves the draft and FA, and once again the timing of them would argue the Jets will at least try to get a solid vet before the draft.  Doesn't mean they will get one.  How much do they have to give up for someone like Glennon who frankly does not seem like more than a hold the fort guy at best.  I don't see this team going all out to get a quality starter in the draft, meaning taking a chance on that.  maybe they surprise us.

I don't disagree. What they do in the draft will obviously depend on what they do in FA beforehand. If they ink Glennon, they're pretty unlikely to draft a QB early, and will give Petty/Hackenberg a roster spot free ride for another season. The biggest roster spot risk for those two (in the event they sign Glennon or another veteran under 30) would be if a late round pick wows the team over the spring/summer.

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2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

My horse is Petty.....we will see if they give him s chance in preseason

My 2nd horse is Hack....we will see how he looks in preseason

My 3rd horse is a future draft pick

**** it, i am good with this unless mgmt feels that there is a cant miss prospect in this draft at QB.

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Well Geno is out of the picture.  that means we will have petty and hack.  Our coach doesn't like either of these guys imo.  So yes we will be getting another QB.  The coach is also in a prove it year or he will get canned imo.  I'd have no issue going with Petty, cheap jag vet and hackenburg sitting in his lazy boy with his ball cap on.  We'll win 3 games and have a shot at a QB next year.

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1 hour ago, thebuzzardman said:

One thing that stood out to me during the superbowl was the number of young players the Falcon's had. Now, of course they lost, but I couldn't help but think (be reminded really) that coaching is more important in the NFL than any other pro sport. Baseball is dominated by individual matches. A good manager will be that difference between the 5 wins and postseason or not, but not the difference between suck and good. Basketball, 9/10 coaches don't move the needle at all, one way or the other. Hockey, matching lines, how they train, it matters for sure, but not like Football either. Football, with everything from discipline, how hard they train so they execute individually and as a team  and  the offensive and defensive schemes they run is extremely coaching intensive.  (Note, when I'm talking about "coach" in football, I'm referring to the entire staff)

Point of my slight digression here? Certainly you need talent. You need the players who are at least JAG level at each position. Talent matters. But so often on playoff teams, what I see is a handful of truly talented players, then a coach getting the max out of JAG guys with schemes and system. 

And not to denigrate lovable Tom Brady, or the mighty Julian Edleman, but Belichik has done well in games without Brady, and constantly has a smurf slot player who suddenly does really well (Wes Welker, even Danny Woodhead filled that role some). Again, the guys have talent, but more than anything Belichik has a system on offense and defense and he finds players that fit, then plugs them in. I think he scouts talent well. I think he gets above average talent (Brady, Moss etc). I also think a lot of players get rated much higher than they should because Belichik makes them look good. 

I don't like the guy. He comes across like a miserable prick. But you can see this attribute and it shows in other coaches, both in Football and other sports at times. 

Jets need a quarterback, but it would help if the franchise had a real head coach, which they haven't had in forever. Not some overpromoted defensive coordinator. I mean a real coach, with a culture of accountability, discipline and actual system philosophies on both sides of the ball. Then, you need to have that coach and the GM be in sync so the GM provides those players to the coach. OCCASIONALLY, the coach should need to be flexible to fit a player with a different set of strengths into the system, but honestly, most of the time, the system should trade the player who doesn't fit, no matter how great, for more assets and players that do. 

Sure, the Jets will be better if and when they get a better QB. But as long as they retain yet another mediocre coach, what does it really matter? It doesn't. Great coach with average talent and average QB but good system would find a way to be in the playoff hunt yearly, if not a true contender. 

 

I agree 100%.  I will say though that I think a really talented QB can rise above a mediocre coach and/or OC. 

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14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There were a lot of elementary mistakes we went over at the time and he was not making "all the correct reads" nor assessing where the pressure was going to come from. Might that improve with time? Of course; it was his first live action. That doesn't mean he played like a solid backup in 2016, before such improvements occur.

Personally I would have liked to see him inserted a month or more earlier, but Bowles/Maccagnan instead wanted to bring back Geno as the #2 QB, which indirectly led to Petty's injury. Well, his first injury anyway. 

Far less mistakes than some of the 1st rounders that played behind good supporting casts.  Also some of the protection breakdowns were caused by missed assignments and a center who had trouble remembering snap counts.  Not to mention the Miami game where winters was thrown around like a ragdoll

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Just now, SickJetFan said:

Far less mistakes than some of the 1st rounders that played behind good supporting casts.  Also some of the protection breakdowns were caused by missed assignments and a center who had trouble remembering snap counts.  Not to mention the Miami game where winters was thrown around like a ragdoll

Meh. I don't know that you or anyone here painstakingly broke down film of all his peers to make such a statement.

Petty was not thrown into some no-win situation. It's not like every time he dropped back to pass he had people in his face within 1 second. He threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in 4 starts. That is not being a good backup by anyone's standards.

I've seen QBs look even worse, of course, but Petty didn't look good in his initial action. He could get better, and he also could get cut before the season starts. If he was clearly a good backup already last year the team would have already publicly gushed about his performance (all teams like to put positive spin on all their young players, unless there are disciplinary issues). 

We'll all see. I hope he turns out better than expected, and certainly better than he was.

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If we get Glennon he will destroy our chance to get Darnold. If Glennon turns out to be our guy for next ten years then fine. If he doesn't we are back to the every three to four year QB carousel. Personally I think forgetting Glennon, draft O line, play the two bodies we have and do everything you can to get Darnold. Everything! 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Where the heck are these statements coming from really? 

#1. Ability in the pocket. This doesnt look stiff to me...or inaccurate while on the run.

 

 Glennon%20TD%20atl.gif

2015-04-11%2017_38_01.gif

2015-04-11%2017_32_05.gif

4.gif

 

#2. Accuracy. 

2015-04-11%2017_41_18.gif

superb%201.gif

Glennon%20TD%20reversed.gif

6.gif

Evans%20catch.gif

Look at the throw above again from this angle below, this is a 45 yard pass in which he placed the ball in between the receiver and the bounds line effectively taking the defender out of the play. I can show numerous plays if you like of accurate ball placement where Glennon effectively leads the receiver with his pass to take the defender out of the play. Just ask if you'd like to see them. Trust me, this kid is more accurate than given credit. He actually moves his receivers to the locations he wants them to go with his passes. 

Evans%20catch%20v.2.gif

Great%20pass.gif

Lastly, this has to be one of the most impressive accurate throws I've seen from Glennon (Gif below), and its actually an incomplete pass. Glennon throws another ball that travels 45 yards in the air on a rope, however, he's unable to step into the pass because he has a defender rolling up on his legs yet he still has enough arm strength and accuracy to throw this ball 45 yards directly to the eyes of his receiver, though ever so slightly underthrown given the tightness of coverage. The pass is incomplete given just a phenomenal effort by the DB on this play. However, if Glennon would have been able to step into this throw maybe he would have been able to lead the receiver just a bit more to where the pass is out of the reach of the defender. More importantly, this shows that Glennon is able to deliver an accurate ball with alot of action around his feet yet still keep his eyes down the field. 

Nonetheless, for Glennon to be able to throw this ball half the distance of the field on a rope to the eyes of the receiver with a dlineman at his feet while not being able to step up into the pocket shows exactly how accurate this guy truly is, especially in a not so perfect situation. 

45%20yard%20Incomp%20TD.gif

 

There should be a rule, if you talk down about Mike Glennon you need to provide some actual proof. Im getting tired of hearing people talk about how inaccurate Glennon is, how terrible he is in the pocket yet see no examples whatsoever. 

hahahahaha we need a new rule just for Glennon? that my friend is laughable. You make some good points and I dont have right time now (at work) to dig up examples to show you what I'm referring to but lets not get crazy. Are you related or what? 

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

If we get Glennon he will destroy our chance to get Darnold. If Glennon turns out to be our guy for next ten years then fine. If he doesn't we are back to the every three to four year QB carousel. Personally I think forgetting Glennon, draft O line, play the two bodies we have and do everything you can to get Darnold. Everything! 

Problem is the GM already used up his mulligan in 2016. It's unlikely the team would end up with Darnold unless they end up with the #1 pick by merit. If they were so bad as to finish that poorly, the GM would be fired and his replacement would be the one making that pick (and getting the credit for it). Fine for the fans, but not fine for the current GM, so it's not likely to happen IMO.

I expect some type of splash at QB this year. Whether it's a veteran (Glennon, Taylor, Cutler, Romo, or some other 8-figure/yr veteran) or drafting one very early. No way he's going into the season with Petty, Hackenberg, and a cheap warm body or late round pick. Not after his embarrassing 2016 with Fitzpatrick/Hackenberg.

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