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Mayock On The QB's


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When you pull up some of the NFL drafts over the last 10 years, you get the sense that the elite talent pool sometimes dips even as you get to 6.

2 years ago the Redskins took Scherf at 5.  He is a Guard.  There are no Guards projected in the top 10 of this draft this year.

I only quasi-bedgrudge the Jets for picking Vernon Gholston, because in that draft, at 6, Gholston was the only potential elite athlete gamechanging player left.   The obvious pick there was to go for the real football player, Jarod Mayo.

In last year's draft, the first QB picked was Lynch, and I don't know how he compares to any of the three above.  Hack was second, in the second round.

I say all of this because sometimes the NFL draft is relatively thin at the top, but then gets between below.  But from everything I hear, it seems like the QBs are lackluster in this draft but there could be 10 potentially elite players at other positions-S, CB, RB, OLB, ILB-like once every 10 year players.  To miss on one of those because we are desperate for a QB seems like a shame and not in the best interests of the team.

Off the top of my head though, the closest comparison to Watson I can think of is Mariota-college game, great athlete, great character, doubts as to NFL ability.  Mariota showed people wrong.  KIzer is a wild card-almost another Hack actually.  Great frame, pro style.  Trubinksy-good skills, low expeience, medium arm, not high first round.

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He also scouted Hackenberg extensively.   The only qb i have slight interest in is Watson.  Hes played big in big time gamrs.  Seems to win games and i like that trait. Kizer and Trib dont e

I'm just not buying this nonsense. Deshaun Watson the last two years against Bama in the biggest stage: 66 - 103 (64%), 825 yds, 7 TD's v 1 int 116 rushing yds. 1 TD   This against

Vince Young, Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel were winners too in college

I don't want to see a QB in this draft.  First, there doesn't appear to be many, if any, standout QB's this year.

Secondly, I'd like to know what the two young QB's we already have on the roster can do before the Jets move on.  I know, a lot of fans have decided that they suck.  I'd kind of like to see it myself.  Give Petty 8 games behind an improved OL.  If he still sucks , warm Hack up in the bullpen.

If nothing else the 18 draft "might " have some QB's.

 

JMO 

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3 hours ago, TJ said:

And Mayock doesn't mention Mahomes II.   

You're right he didn't but they did a section on air raid qbs as a whole on the actual podcast which is worth listening to.  They said the problem with the air raid is that the qbs never huddled up, never called a play and generally don't do anything that an NFL QB is asked to do.

he also said the most noteable qb to ever play in the NFL from that system is case keenum.  They said air raid qbs are a who's who list of NFL busts.  Some guys they mentioned that came from that system and have busted include Tim couch, geno smith and Garred Goff although it's way to early to call Goff a bust.  It's worth noting that Bryce petty also ran a spread system that was a variation of the air raid.

mahomes and Davis webb are likely fools gold.

here is a list of some recent air raid qbs

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden

Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts

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4 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Lol, anyone comparing Vincent Young and Deshaun Watson either doesn't watch college football or doesn't understand it.

Too tired to list all the ways they are completely different prospects. 

This.  Vince Young threw side arm and was not all there upstairs.

Watson supposedly has a great head on his shoulders.

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If we take anyone BUT a QB at #6, I am officially, since 1988, at three years old, done with this franchise.  I can't watch another ******* season, not another ******* season with some shotty, 3rd round, 2nd round, retread, 40 year old rapist, Harvard educated journeyman piece of sh*t Quarterback play.

 

I'm out.

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3 hours ago, varjet said:

When you pull up some of the NFL drafts over the last 10 years, you get the sense that the elite talent pool sometimes dips even as you get to 6.

2 years ago the Redskins took Scherf at 5.  He is a Guard.  There are no Guards projected in the top 10 of this draft this year.

I only quasi-bedgrudge the Jets for picking Vernon Gholston, because in that draft, at 6, Gholston was the only potential elite athlete gamechanging player left.   The obvious pick there was to go for the real football player, Jarod Mayo.

In last year's draft, the first QB picked was Lynch, and I don't know how he compares to any of the three above.  Hack was second, in the second round.

I say all of this because sometimes the NFL draft is relatively thin at the top, but then gets between below.  But from everything I hear, it seems like the QBs are lackluster in this draft but there could be 10 potentially elite players at other positions-S, CB, RB, OLB, ILB-like once every 10 year players.  To miss on one of those because we are desperate for a QB seems like a shame and not in the best interests of the team.

Off the top of my head though, the closest comparison to Watson I can think of is Mariota-college game, great athlete, great character, doubts as to NFL ability.  Mariota showed people wrong.  KIzer is a wild card-almost another Hack actually.  Great frame, pro style.  Trubinksy-good skills, low expeience, medium arm, not high first round.

what ?????

 

did you forgot the 1st and 2nd picks overall ?

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3 hours ago, southtown24th said:

If we take anyone BUT a QB at #6, I am officially, since 1988, at three years old, done with this franchise.  I can't watch another ******* season, not another ******* season with some shotty, 3rd round, 2nd round, retread, 40 year old rapist, Harvard educated journeyman piece of sh*t Quarterback play.

 

I'm out.

Ok.

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15 hours ago, legler82 said:

Mahomes beat out 2 excellent college QBs in Baker Mayfield and David Webb to the point they transferred out.

Well then, You really got me thinking on this one.  We have the answer! History tends to repeat itself and if we look carefully at all of the information presented regarding all of the great QB's who were beaten out at their first school, transferred and then went on to have SB winning careers the 2017 draft  has 2 guys that we need to look into extensively in the later rounds.  Davis Webb and Nathen Peterman:

While all our Jets fans are debating that we should look at Mike Glennon, lets remember, Glennon beat out Russel Wilson at NC State.  He was drafted 2 spots ahead of Wilson in the third round of the draft.  Wilson went on to play in 2 Super Bowls so far and won one:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/seahawks/2013/10/31/russell-wilson-mike-glennon-buccaneers-north-carolina-nc-state/3331785/

Well now look at this Draft:  Davis Webb was not given a fair chance and was beaten out by Patrick Mahommes II at Texas Tech.  Davis transferred to CAL and had a decent career. The one thing you notice about Webb is when he received NFL coaching during the Senior Bowl week he progressively got better as the week went on eventually winning MVP honors.  The arrow is pointing up for him:  http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/10/21/ex-texas-tech-qb-davis-webb-feels-get-fair-chance-compete-job-red-raiders

http://www.calbears.com/news/2017/1/28/football-senior-bowl-mvp-davis-webb-lifts-south-to-victor.aspx

 

The Other guy who is intriguing is Nathen Peterman from PITT:  Peterman transferred from Tenn Vols. after being beat out by Dobbs.  Both of these QB's also played in the Senior Bowl.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report--tennessee-qb-nathan-peterman-will-transfer-to-pitt-182049136.html

 

The point is:  Yes when you have an elite talent like Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, Luck etc. starring at you at the top of the first round you make the move.  In a draft like this you look to find that guy who has gone through the humility of being beaten out, embarrassed, but did not keep him from getting better and holding that little extra grudge.  That is what made a lot of those great NFL qb's that much better, the mindset to prove everyone wrong and thank the organization that took the chance on them!

 

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13 hours ago, rangerous said:

the talking heads are all fixated on the chuck and duck qb's not being able to adapt to the nfl.  can't say they're wrong but they also seem to overvalue the guys who come from the "pro" set schools.

Look at the QBs who were just in the playoffs. 

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Well then, You really got me thinking on this one.  We have the answer! History tends to repeat itself and if we look carefully at all of the information presented regarding all of the great QB's who were beaten out at their first school, transferred and then went on to have SB winning careers the 2017 draft  has 2 guys that we need to look into extensively in the later rounds.  Davis Webb and Nathen Peterman:
While all our Jets fans are debating that we should look at Mike Glennon, lets remember, Glennon beat out Russel Wilson at NC State.  He was drafted 2 spots ahead of Wilson in the third round of the draft.  Wilson went on to play in 2 Super Bowls so far and won one:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/seahawks/2013/10/31/russell-wilson-mike-glennon-buccaneers-north-carolina-nc-state/3331785/
Well now look at this Draft:  Davis Webb was not given a fair chance and was beaten out by Patrick Mahommes II at Texas Tech.  Davis transferred to CAL and had a decent career. The one thing you notice about Webb is when he received NFL coaching during the Senior Bowl week he progressively got better as the week went on eventually winning MVP honors.  The arrow is pointing up for him:  http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/10/21/ex-texas-tech-qb-davis-webb-feels-get-fair-chance-compete-job-red-raiders
http://www.calbears.com/news/2017/1/28/football-senior-bowl-mvp-davis-webb-lifts-south-to-victor.aspx
 
The Other guy who is intriguing is Nathen Peterman from PITT:  Peterman transferred from Tenn Vols. after being beat out by Dobbs.  Both of these QB's also played in the Senior Bowl.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report--tennessee-qb-nathan-peterman-will-transfer-to-pitt-182049136.html
 
The point is:  Yes when you have an elite talent like Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, Luck etc. starring at you at the top of the first round you make the move.  In a draft like this you look to find that guy who has gone through the humility of being beaten out, embarrassed, but did not keep him from getting better and holding that little extra grudge.  That is what made a lot of those great NFL qb's that much better, the mindset to prove everyone wrong and thank the organization that took the chance on them!
 


isn't that what Hackenberg is or was coming out of college ?


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Well then, You really got me thinking on this one.  We have the answer! History tends to repeat itself and if we look carefully at all of the information presented regarding all of the great QB's who were beaten out at their first school, transferred and then went on to have SB winning careers the 2017 draft  has 2 guys that we need to look into extensively in the later rounds.  Davis Webb and Nathen Peterman:
While all our Jets fans are debating that we should look at Mike Glennon, lets remember, Glennon beat out Russel Wilson at NC State.  He was drafted 2 spots ahead of Wilson in the third round of the draft.  Wilson went on to play in 2 Super Bowls so far and won one:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/seahawks/2013/10/31/russell-wilson-mike-glennon-buccaneers-north-carolina-nc-state/3331785/
Well now look at this Draft:  Davis Webb was not given a fair chance and was beaten out by Patrick Mahommes II at Texas Tech.  Davis transferred to CAL and had a decent career. The one thing you notice about Webb is when he received NFL coaching during the Senior Bowl week he progressively got better as the week went on eventually winning MVP honors.  The arrow is pointing up for him:  http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/10/21/ex-texas-tech-qb-davis-webb-feels-get-fair-chance-compete-job-red-raiders
http://www.calbears.com/news/2017/1/28/football-senior-bowl-mvp-davis-webb-lifts-south-to-victor.aspx
 
The Other guy who is intriguing is Nathen Peterman from PITT:  Peterman transferred from Tenn Vols. after being beat out by Dobbs.  Both of these QB's also played in the Senior Bowl.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report--tennessee-qb-nathan-peterman-will-transfer-to-pitt-182049136.html
 
The point is:  Yes when you have an elite talent like Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, Luck etc. starring at you at the top of the first round you make the move.  In a draft like this you look to find that guy who has gone through the humility of being beaten out, embarrassed, but did not keep him from getting better and holding that little extra grudge.  That is what made a lot of those great NFL qb's that much better, the mindset to prove everyone wrong and thank the organization that took the chance on them!
 


isn't that what Hackenberg is or was coming out of college ?


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6 minutes ago, YouPlay2Win said:

 


isn't that what Hackenberg is or was coming out of college ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

For this debate purpose looking at QB's who transferred schools and then went on to have successful NFL careers after being written off by first school.  Hackenberg did not transfer and there was a coaching change at Penn State.  I believe in Hackenberg and want to see him come in and see what he has as a starter this year to be honest with you.

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18 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

The top-end is crap this year.  I think we all agree on that.  The question is: Is there a Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott diamond in the rough type in the mid round pool?

The other question would be, if there is, are we at a point where we should be taking them instead of dedicating the resources, practice time and effort to further develop the QB prospects we already have on the roster.  Every late round QB we take is another special teams guy or developmental offensive or defensive player that gets drafted by someone else.

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I would be suprised if he is there at 6 but I would take Watson. I like Mahomes also. I also don't like QB's who only started one year. We here the same sh*t every year from scouts and the Mayock types and there is usually a QB or two who surprises. I have no problem taking a chance on a QB at least it gives us some hope, or it could set us back several years. We are in a tough spot this year, FA is key to see what we will do at QB. 

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11 hours ago, southtown24th said:

If we take anyone BUT a QB at #6, I am officially, since 1988, at three years old, done with this franchise.  I can't watch another ******* season, not another ******* season with some shotty, 3rd round, 2nd round, retread, 40 year old rapist, Harvard educated journeyman piece of sh*t Quarterback play.

 

I'm out.

This is my favorite post in the thread. Spot on.

Too many fans want to complain all year that we don't have a successful franchise, but then are unwilling to make the moves necessary in the offseason to change that.

Going into 2017 with some combo of Hack, Petty, Geno, and Hoyer/Cutler/Romo is football suicide. 

The vet bandaid only gets us to 8-8, thus keeping the team in nfl purgatory for the foreseeable future. 

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5 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

This is my favorite post in the thread. Spot on.

Too many fans want to complain all year that we don't have a successful franchise, but then are unwilling to make the moves necessary in the offseason to change that.

Going into 2017 with some combo of Hack, Petty, Geno, and Hoyer/Cutler/Romo is football suicide. 

The vet bandaid only gets us to 8-8, thus keeping the team in nfl purgatory for the foreseeable future. 

I understand that and I agree with the premise but you have to understand that many people looking at this draft see the top qbs as less than stellar prospects. Do you really want to take a Blaine gabbert, jake locker, Christian ponder type instead of taking a blue chip prospect at another position?

I'm all for taking a QB but honestly I don't know if this is the right year. It would certainly appease the fan base that wants a name at QB but if the experts are right and these guys aren't top 10 talents then drafting one really is just about making people feel better instead of actually making your team better.

i know it hurts but we might have to sit through another year with a veteran scrub to compete with petty and Hackenberg in order to get to a year where we can select an actual top QB. Sometimes you have to be able to see the opportunity in being bad for a couple of seasons.  With no left tackle, no qb, no pass rusher and no cornerback we are not ready to win.  We could be in the top 10 again next year and I don't want to pass on Sam darnold because we took Watson this year.

even with all of that said I am a "give Hackenberg a chance" guy.  We'll see what happens. 

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They need to balance finding a QB and throwing a high draft pick away.

if teams think that those three QBs can be an answer, at least 2 of them will not be there at 6.

Macc needs to figure this out.

To ask a question another way, how does Watson, Kizer or Trubiskey play on the Cowboys last year?  If think at least Watson could have performed similarly.  

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18 minutes ago, varjet said:

They need to balance finding a QB and throwing a high draft pick away.

if teams think that those three QBs can be an answer, at least 2 of them will not be there at 6.

Macc needs to figure this out.

To ask a question another way, how does Watson, Kizer or Trubiskey play on the Cowboys last year?  If think at least Watson could have performed similarly.  

Good point. But ,also, one advantage of being down at 6 and not higher, the draft scenario, plus FA, sometimes gives you your answer.

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18 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

Check out Vince Young's Rose Bowl games and tell me he wasnt destined for greatness.  IMO, he single handedly won those games.

Vince Young had personal problems, which had a lot to do with why he didn't fulfill his talent. He played really well for a bit. Watson has none of those issues and is really focused on football and a good guy to have in your locker room. I'm not saying we should take him, but the comparison is a bit off for me. Maturity of a person goes a long way on whether he can be a great QB or not, and that seems to be a strong suit with Watson. I bet he could deal with the agenda driven NY media.

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1 minute ago, Greensleeves said:

Vince Young had personal problems, which had a lot to do with why he didn't fulfill his talent. He played really well for a bit. Watson has none of those issues and is really focused on football and a good guy to have in your locker room. I'm not saying we should take him, but the comparison is a bit off for me. Maturity of a person goes a long way on whether he can be a great QB or not, and that seems to be a strong suit with Watson. I bet he could deal with the agenda driven NY media.

Absolutely. The kid graduated early from Clemson. Pretty impressive for any student, but even more so for the starting QB on a "de-facto" pro football program. The kid oozes leadership, just wonder if his total game translates to successful pro QB. 

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I agree with the idea of not wanting to draft a Blaine Gabbert but Watson is no Blaine Gabbert. He lit up an NFL quality defense (Bama) for 400+ yards two years in a row on the nation's largest stage. Any draft pick is some degree of risk, but a kid like that is certainly a risk worth taking. 

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4 hours ago, NYDreamer said:

Well then, You really got me thinking on this one.  We have the answer! History tends to repeat itself and if we look carefully at all of the information presented regarding all of the great QB's who were beaten out at their first school, transferred and then went on to have SB winning careers the 2017 draft  has 2 guys that we need to look into extensively in the later rounds.  Davis Webb and Nathen Peterman:

While all our Jets fans are debating that we should look at Mike Glennon, lets remember, Glennon beat out Russel Wilson at NC State.  He was drafted 2 spots ahead of Wilson in the third round of the draft.  Wilson went on to play in 2 Super Bowls so far and won one:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/seahawks/2013/10/31/russell-wilson-mike-glennon-buccaneers-north-carolina-nc-state/3331785/

Well now look at this Draft:  Davis Webb was not given a fair chance and was beaten out by Patrick Mahommes II at Texas Tech.  Davis transferred to CAL and had a decent career. The one thing you notice about Webb is when he received NFL coaching during the Senior Bowl week he progressively got better as the week went on eventually winning MVP honors.  The arrow is pointing up for him:  http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/10/21/ex-texas-tech-qb-davis-webb-feels-get-fair-chance-compete-job-red-raiders

http://www.calbears.com/news/2017/1/28/football-senior-bowl-mvp-davis-webb-lifts-south-to-victor.aspx

 

The Other guy who is intriguing is Nathen Peterman from PITT:  Peterman transferred from Tenn Vols. after being beat out by Dobbs.  Both of these QB's also played in the Senior Bowl.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report--tennessee-qb-nathan-peterman-will-transfer-to-pitt-182049136.html

 

The point is:  Yes when you have an elite talent like Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, Luck etc. starring at you at the top of the first round you make the move.  In a draft like this you look to find that guy who has gone through the humility of being beaten out, embarrassed, but did not keep him from getting better and holding that little extra grudge.  That is what made a lot of those great NFL qb's that much better, the mindset to prove everyone wrong and thank the organization that took the chance on them!

 

Don't know how we got off on this tangent on the careers of QBs that transferred but I'll join in but at the angle I initially wanted.  What does history tell us about the QB who won the battle for the starting job forcing the lose to transfer?  Is Pat Mahomes the Drew Henson to Webb's Brady simply because it's been pre-written by history?

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21 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm just not buying this nonsense. Deshaun Watson the last two years against Bama in the biggest stage:

66 - 103 (64%), 825 yds, 7 TD's v 1 int

116 rushing yds. 1 TD

 

This against what ppl were calling the best college defense of all time. Bama has NFL players on that D from top to bottom.  Not bad for a kid who struggles with accuracy from the pocket, lol.

Give me a winner like this on my team every day of the week. 

I agree. He may have accuracy/mechanical issues that need to be figured out but the guy has the arm, the moxie, the leadership, the drive. He's an athlete. He's a baller. He's a winner. I would roll the dice with him -- he feels like he could be a poor man's Russell Wilson.

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21 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm just not buying this nonsense. Deshaun Watson the last two years against Bama in the biggest stage:

66 - 103 (64%), 825 yds, 7 TD's v 1 int

116 rushing yds. 1 TD

 

This against what ppl were calling the best college defense of all time. Bama has NFL players on that D from top to bottom.  Not bad for a kid who struggles with accuracy from the pocket, lol.

Give me a winner like this on my team every day of the week. 

POTY .

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On 2/8/2017 at 7:22 PM, Gangrene said:

I remember how Parcells felt about qbs who have played less than three years as a starter in college.. so I looked to see if there was any modern day qb with as little starting experience in college as Trubisky has had and still have a very good NFL career.

Struggled to find any but this does not mean Trubisky won't make it.

As @nyjunc referred to, Trubisky played well in spot duty his sophmore year.

The NFL has it's share of qb failures  (both of the variety of those who left school early, and those who stayed in school) but would the likes of Mark Sanchez be successful if he (took Pete Carroll's advise) stayed in school for that final year ? I expect he would still be a dissapointment today.

I doubt Jets fans have the stomach to see another kid redshirting, which is what Trubisky may need.

mark didn't ultimately fail b/c of college experience.  Pete wanted Mark back for selfish reason not to help Mark.  they would have been a title contender w// mark. it's hard to argue he should have stayed when he was having so much success his first few years.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

I s

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I still think the big test for the Jets will be with the 2nd rounder. One of these QBs is going to drop into that spot and it will be interesting to see if the jets have the nuts to draft another QB there,

If they do, Macc should include his letter or resignation along with card draft card brought up to the podium.

 

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I still think the big test for the Jets will be with the 2nd rounder. One of these QBs is going to drop into that spot and it will be interesting to see if the jets have the nuts to draft another QB there,

i tend to agree.  the jets will not go qb at 6, mccags  can get a real good player who can play right away.  

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:
  On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 7:22 PM, Gangrene said:

I remember how Parcells felt about qbs who have played less than three years as a starter in college.. so I looked to see if there was any modern day qb with as little starting experience in college as Trubisky has had and still have a very good NFL career.

Struggled to find any but this does not mean Trubisky won't make it.

As @nyjunc referred to, Trubisky played well in spot duty his sophmore year.

The NFL has it's share of qb failures  (both of the variety of those who left school early, and those who stayed in school) but would the likes of Mark Sanchez be successful if he (took Pete Carroll's advise) stayed in school for that final year ? I expect he would still be a dissapointment today.

I doubt Jets fans have the stomach to see another kid redshirting, which is what Trubisky may need

The 1 who makes the most sense is Tom Brady .

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20 hours ago, nyjunc said:

mark didn't ultimately fail b/c of college experience.  Pete wanted Mark back for selfish reason not to help Mark.  they would have been a title contender w// mark. it's hard to argue he should have stayed when he was having so much success his first few years.

Understood, but success is relative, without that O line and the Jets runnning Mark S., would never have sniffed the playoffs.

A lot of people had questions over Sanchez as the high pick, some saying he should have stayed. Sure Carroll had his own interests in encouraging Sanchez to stay but who is to say he wasn't wrong ?

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On 2/8/2017 at 7:22 PM, Gangrene said:

I remember how Parcells felt about qbs who have played less than three years as a starter in college.. so I looked to see if there was any modern day qb with as little starting experience in college as Trubisky has had and still have a very good NFL career.

Struggled to find any but this does not mean Trubisky won't make it.

As @nyjunc referred to, Trubisky played well in spot duty his sophmore year.

The NFL has it's share of qb failures  (both of the variety of those who left school early, and those who stayed in school) but would the likes of Mark Sanchez be successful if he (took Pete Carroll's advise) stayed in school for that final year ? I expect he would still be a dissapointment today.

I doubt Jets fans have the stomach to see another kid redshirting, which is what Trubisky may need.

I remember an article that came out when the Jets had the first pick in the draft (Parcells was in charge).  Tennessee Volunteer QB Payton Manning a Junior at the time could not get Parcells to guarantee that the Jets would select him with the first pick in the draft. He elected to stay in school.  That same year, Orlando Pace was coming out in that draft.  Parcells elected to trade the first pick to the Rams who went on to select Pace, we moved down to their spot and selected LB James Farrior.

The only thing that Manning, Pace, and Farrior have in common was that they all won SuperBowls with other teams and Parcells made that decision. 

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