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Mayock On The QB's


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21 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I still think the big test for the Jets will be with the 2nd rounder. One of these QBs is going to drop into that spot and it will be interesting to see if the jets have the nuts to draft another QB there,

Way too many holes to draft another project Qb plus Mac's track record in drafting qb's is scary bad

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9 minutes ago, NYDreamer said:

I remember an article that came out when the Jets had the first pick in the draft (Parcells was in charge).  Tennessee Volunteer QB Payton Manning a Junior at the time could not get Parcells to guarantee that the Jets would select him with the first pick in the draft. He elected to stay in school.  That same year, Orlando Pace was coming out in that draft.  Parcells elected to trade the first pick to the Rams who went on to select Pace, we moved down to their spot and selected LB James Farrior.

The only thing that Manning, Pace, and Farrior have in common was that they all won SuperBowls with other teams and Parcells made that decision. 

Parcells took a pass on Manning in 1997 and took another pass on Matt Ryan ten years later

 

 

 

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On 2/11/2017 at 8:12 AM, Gangrene said:

Understood, but success is relative, without that O line and the Jets runnning Mark S., would never have sniffed the playoffs.

A lot of people had questions over Sanchez as the high pick, some saying he should have stayed. Sure Carroll had his own interests in encouraging Sanchez to stay but who is to say he wasn't wrong ?

the run game was severely overrated.  year 1 they nudged him along but by year 2 it as the pass O that was leading our O.  

obviously Carroll was wrong or Mark wouldn't have had any success especially early success.

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On 2/10/2017 at 10:19 AM, Beerfish said:

I still think the big test for the Jets will be with the 2nd rounder. One of these QBs is going to drop into that spot and it will be interesting to see if the jets have the nuts to draft another QB there,

I'm sure whomever we take in the 2nd will be just fine. Our track record is pretty great in that round.

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19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I would much rather have 2 - 3's than 1 - 2 (which would make it 3 3rd rounders)

What's the value on that?  Is two 3rd rounders the market for 1 second rounder (assuming we're in the six spot)

An early 2nd rounder like we have would be worth two early 3rd rounders via the draft value chart. 

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jets fans can debate the wisdom of these QBs all day and night but the real question is, what Mac will do at 6? 

 

the answer is he will wait for value, for someone to fall into his lap. He won't reach at 6.

it's not clear that any of these Qbs are actually value at 6. Trubusky and Watson come the closest to value but they most likely have a higher grade on the LSU guys (Adams and Fournette) and probably some of these edge rushers/cbs too. Will Mac take a lower graded prospect because of need at 6? it doesn't sound like Mac

that plus the Hackenberg thing means don't get your hopes up for qb at 6, regardless if it is a good idea or not  

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es
2002 1 David Carr QB Fresno State First draft pick in franchise history. Agreed to contract before the draft.
2003 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami (FL) 7x Pro Bowl selection.
2x All-Pro first-team selection.
2004 10 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina  
2004 27 Jason Babin DE Western Michigan 2x Pro Bowl selection.[1]
2005 16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State [2]
2006 1 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State 4x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2007 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Youngest player ever taken in modern draft era.
2008 26 Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech 3x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2009 15 Brian Cushing OLB Southern California 1x Pro Bowl selection.
2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year.
2010 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama  
2011 11 J. J. Watt DE Wisconsin 4x Pro Bowl selection.
4x All-Pro first-team selection.
2014 Bert Bell Award.
3x Defensive Player of the Year.
2015 Pro Bowl Defensive MVP.
2012 26 Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois  
2013 27 DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson 1x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro second-team selection.
2014 1 Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina 1x Pro Bowl selection
2015 16 Kevin Johnson CB Wake Forest  
2016 21 Will Fuller WR Notre Dame [3]

Above are the players the Texans picked in he first round over the last 15 years.  I am not feeling a RB or S.  Edge or CB more likely.

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6 minutes ago, varjet said:
es
2002 1 David Carr QB Fresno State First draft pick in franchise history. Agreed to contract before the draft.
2003 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami (FL) 7x Pro Bowl selection.
2x All-Pro first-team selection.
2004 10 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina  
2004 27 Jason Babin DE Western Michigan 2x Pro Bowl selection.[1]
2005 16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State [2]
2006 1 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State 4x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2007 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Youngest player ever taken in modern draft era.
2008 26 Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech 3x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2009 15 Brian Cushing OLB Southern California 1x Pro Bowl selection.
2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year.
2010 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama  
2011 11 J. J. Watt DE Wisconsin 4x Pro Bowl selection.
4x All-Pro first-team selection.
2014 Bert Bell Award.
3x Defensive Player of the Year.
2015 Pro Bowl Defensive MVP.
2012 26 Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois  
2013 27 DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson 1x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro second-team selection.
2014 1 Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina 1x Pro Bowl selection
2015 16 Kevin Johnson CB Wake Forest  
2016 21 Will Fuller WR Notre Dame [3]

Above are the players the Texans picked in he first round over the last 15 years.  I am not feeling a RB or S.  Edge or CB more likely.

and their offense continues to suck like ours.

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10 minutes ago, varjet said:
es
2002 1 David Carr QB Fresno State First draft pick in franchise history. Agreed to contract before the draft.
2003 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami (FL) 7x Pro Bowl selection.
2x All-Pro first-team selection.
2004 10 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina  
2004 27 Jason Babin DE Western Michigan 2x Pro Bowl selection.[1]
2005 16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State [2]
2006 1 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State 4x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2007 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Youngest player ever taken in modern draft era.
2008 26 Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech 3x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro first-team selection.
2009 15 Brian Cushing OLB Southern California 1x Pro Bowl selection.
2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year.
2010 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama  
2011 11 J. J. Watt DE Wisconsin 4x Pro Bowl selection.
4x All-Pro first-team selection.
2014 Bert Bell Award.
3x Defensive Player of the Year.
2015 Pro Bowl Defensive MVP.
2012 26 Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois  
2013 27 DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson 1x Pro Bowl selection.
1x All-Pro second-team selection.
2014 1 Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina 1x Pro Bowl selection
2015 16 Kevin Johnson CB Wake Forest  
2016 21 Will Fuller WR Notre Dame [3]

Above are the players the Texans picked in he first round over the last 15 years.  I am not feeling a RB or S.  Edge or CB more likely.

4 people sit in a room on draft day .  The owner, the GM, the HC and the Player personal director  .  A player is decided upon and drafted . The person who gets blame by the fans is the personal director when the player bust ..

To my knowledge, this is the 1st time Mike Mccagnan  has been a GM, so how do we know who he recommended and who was drafted based on his recommendations .

 

Yes, I realize that more than 4 people sit in the war room on draft day .

Of those players listed how many fall into the Leo Williams category .

In 2016, Mike Maccagnan was the GM of the Jets and had absolutely nothing to do with the draft of the Texans .   

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This is the way I see the draft:

The Jets are a void now at CB-they basically have Justin Burris.  They can save $9mm from the cap by cutting Revis.  Skrine is the most penalized player in the league, and Marcus Williams is what he is.  A CB at 6 could provide great financial and strategic value.

The Jets are in transition at S.  Pryor, who is a mixed bag, is in his last year, with an option year.  They should be thinking about not taking the option year and getting the comp pick.  Gilcrist could be replaced.  Adams or Hooker could be a great building block there.

Marshall and Decker are getting older, and one is a nut, the other likely not at 100% in 2017.  A blue chip WR would go great with the WR2-WR5 guys with great potential they have.

The Jets to not have a line that will make a RB look good, and should not draft a RB high before they have a QB.

Deshaun Watson will be a successful NFL QB, but if that is believed there is no way on this Earth that he is there at 6.  If he is there, I think the Jets could pick him.  Remember that 1st round picks can be kept for 5 years, 2 and below 4.  Hack is already on year 2, Petty 3.  That is the Cousins problem in DC-they had to franchise him in year 5.  IF the Jets hit on a QB in round 1, they get to keep him for 5 years.  For that reason Dallas will be particularly dangerous, as they can use their cap room now on defense while Prescott plays cheap (at some point he revolts).

So I see a S, CB or WR.  Could be worse.  its up to Macc to pick the guy who really is the best player.  He will be under alot of pressure to not have someone picked below his pick end up being a star.

 

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8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

the run game was severely overrated.  year 1 they nudged him along but by year 2 it as the pass O that was leading our O.  

obviously Carroll was wrong or Mark wouldn't have had any success especially early success.

I understand your point of view but I  disagree that Carroll was wrong. I believe Mark Sanchez was in a perfect situation and went as far as his limited talent and experience took him. We will never know if that extra year would have helped or not.

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On 2/9/2017 at 0:34 PM, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree. He may have accuracy/mechanical issues that need to be figured out but the guy has the arm, the moxie, the leadership, the drive. He's an athlete. He's a baller. He's a winner. I would roll the dice with him -- he feels like he could be a poor man's Russell Wilson.

Up until the "He's a winner." statement, and that is more a function of the program than the athlete, it sounds as if you're describing Christian Hackenberg.

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12 hours ago, Gangrene said:

I understand your point of view but I  disagree that Carroll was wrong. I believe Mark Sanchez was in a perfect situation and went as far as his limited talent and experience took him. We will never know if that extra year would have helped or not.

we are allowed to disagree.  I don't think any of Mark's problems came from not being ready, if you are ready to handle January as a rookie then you are ready for anything.  his career went down when we took away all of the talent around him.  every QB(besides Brady) needs talent to win.

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On 2/8/2017 at 3:19 PM, Adoni Beast said:

Also, once upon a time a guy named Tom Brady lost his starting job and was splitting reps in games with Drew Henson. What happens in college isn't always indicative of what will happen in the pros.

yes but that is a little overblown.  check out henson vs brady for 98 and 99.  brady clearly was getting the game time.  brady led 618 to 134 in passing attempts and 23-16 in game appearances.  i get your point though.

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23 hours ago, varjet said:

This is the way I see the draft:

The Jets are a void now at CB-they basically have Justin Burris.  They can save $9mm from the cap by cutting Revis.  Skrine is the most penalized player in the league, and Marcus Williams is what he is.  A CB at 6 could provide great financial and strategic value.

The Jets are in transition at S.  Pryor, who is a mixed bag, is in his last year, with an option year.  They should be thinking about not taking the option year and getting the comp pick.  Gilcrist could be replaced.  Adams or Hooker could be a great building block there.

Marshall and Decker are getting older, and one is a nut, the other likely not at 100% in 2017.  A blue chip WR would go great with the WR2-WR5 guys with great potential they have.

The Jets to not have a line that will make a RB look good, and should not draft a RB high before they have a QB.

Deshaun Watson will be a successful NFL QB, but if that is believed there is no way on this Earth that he is there at 6.  If he is there, I think the Jets could pick him.  Remember that 1st round picks can be kept for 5 years, 2 and below 4.  Hack is already on year 2, Petty 3.  That is the Cousins problem in DC-they had to franchise him in year 5.  IF the Jets hit on a QB in round 1, they get to keep him for 5 years.  For that reason Dallas will be particularly dangerous, as they can use their cap room now on defense while Prescott plays cheap (at some point he revolts).

So I see a S, CB or WR.  Could be worse.  its up to Macc to pick the guy who really is the best player.  He will be under alot of pressure to not have someone picked below his pick end up being a star.

 

prettymuch agree.  jets need a top flight corner from the draft.  gilchrist is probably not going to be ready from his injury and will probably be cut.  pryor looked like he was getting it together and then fell back.  maybe launching sheldo will help his attitude.  i like marshall but at a lower price.  decker is fine where he is and he will have a pretty high cap hit is cut.  i think the oline is a lot better than it seems.  powell was able to run pretty well behind it and shell was coming on at right tackle.  johnson should be tendered.  that just leaves left tackle and even there iajalana needs some experience to get better. one place the jets also need improvement is in the lb's.  they need outside and inside since harris is probably going to be cut.  as for watson, i just don't know.  they could take a qb and let petty/hack/the draftee fight it out. hopefully hack or petty have picked up enough to be effective starters.

so i can see cb in rd 1 followed by Lt, lb, qb, ctr, cb, depth.

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On 2/13/2017 at 3:07 PM, Tinstar said:

In 2016, Mike Maccagnan was the GM of the Jets and had absolutely nothing to do with the draft of the Texans .   

Also, for every other year in that spreadsheet... Mike MacCagnan was not the GM of the Texans. So, the whole exercise of trying to predict his tendencies based on the draft picks of the Texans is absurd. It ignores Texan team needs at the time, it ignores positional strength of draft class for each year, and most of all it ignores the influence of the owner, head coach and the actual GM for each year. 

So, yea.

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On 2/13/2017 at 11:39 AM, nyjunc said:

the run game was severely overrated.  year 1 they nudged him along but by year 2 it as the pass O that was leading our O.  

obviously Carroll was wrong or Mark wouldn't have had any success especially early success.

Uh, no, this is factually incorrect.

In 2010 we were 4th in rushing yards per game, 8th in rushing yards per attempt and 9th in rushing touchdowns. We were 22nd in passing yards per game, 25th in passing yards per attempt and 23rd in passing touchdowns.

Any type of revisionist history that we were not a run first team in 2010 is simply nonsense, as is the idea that Sanchez was ever an average QB. He generally stunk, and has never had an above average season in the NFL. He was put into the perfect situation to succeed and failed. 

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7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Uh, no, this is factually incorrect.

In 2010 we were 4th in rushing yards per game, 8th in rushing yards per attempt and 9th in rushing touchdowns. We were 22nd in passing yards per game, 25th in passing yards per attempt and 23rd in passing touchdowns.

Any type of revisionist history that we were not a run first team in 2010 is simply nonsense, as is the idea that Sanchez was ever an average QB. He generally stunk, and has never had an above average season in the NFL. He was put into the perfect situation to succeed and failed. 

we ran the ball well the first month as LT was great, he was terrible 3/4 of the season. we also had WC runs in the rush total,s we did NOT have a very good run game in year 2 and the Pass game pulled out numerous games late and was responsible for most of our wins.  accumulated #s look nice on paper but it doesn't match reality, even in 2009 we weren't as good as the #s showed b/c we had a few ridiculous games that skewed #s.

LT weeks 1-5: 76 carries, 435 yds, 5.7 YPC, 3 TDs

LT weeks 6-16: 143-479, 3.3 YPC, 3 TDs

#s are a guide, our run game was 4th in yards b/c we were 2nd in attempts and our top 2 RBs averaged barely over 4 YPC which is good not great.  

actually he succeeded, he he;lped 2 teams reach conf title games and got us closer to a SB than at any time since SB III.  the reason we didn't make it was b/c our Ds were very good but not great, if we had NYG D/STs of '07/'11 in '09/'10 we win 2 SBs.

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19 hours ago, tuffhand said:

Up until the "He's a winner." statement, and that is more a function of the program than the athlete, it sounds as if you're describing Christian Hackenberg.

 

6 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Not really. Christian Hackenberg sucked in college. DeShaun Watson was legendary.

Your statement:

"He may have accuracy/mechanical issues that need to be figured out but the guy has the arm, the moxie, the leadership, the drive. He's an athlete. He's a baller."

 didn't factor in what he did in college, it's a synopsis of the player.

 

 

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18 hours ago, tuffhand said:

 

Your statement:

"He may have accuracy/mechanical issues that need to be figured out but the guy has the arm, the moxie, the leadership, the drive. He's an athlete. He's a baller."

 didn't factor in what he did in college, it's a synopsis of the player.

 

 

I mean intrinsically it does since that's the entire basis for evaluation. Who would describe someone who never won as a leader with great moxie? Who would describe someone who sucked in college as a baller? And how is Hackenberg an athlete? The only similar characteristics are bad mechanics/accuracy issues and a strong arm.

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20 hours ago, nyjunc said:

we ran the ball well the first month as LT was great, he was terrible 3/4 of the season. we also had WC runs in the rush total,s we did NOT have a very good run game in year 2 and the Pass game pulled out numerous games late and was responsible for most of our wins.  accumulated #s look nice on paper but it doesn't match reality, even in 2009 we weren't as good as the #s showed b/c we had a few ridiculous games that skewed #s.

LT weeks 1-5: 76 carries, 435 yds, 5.7 YPC, 3 TDs

LT weeks 6-16: 143-479, 3.3 YPC, 3 TDs

#s are a guide, our run game was 4th in yards b/c we were 2nd in attempts and our top 2 RBs averaged barely over 4 YPC which is good not great.  

actually he succeeded, he he;lped 2 teams reach conf title games and got us closer to a SB than at any time since SB III.  the reason we didn't make it was b/c our Ds were very good but not great, if we had NYG D/STs of '07/'11 in '09/'10 we win 2 SBs.

Even if the run game was overrated, you failed to illustrate how the passing game carried the day. You can't, of course, because it didn't.

And if you want to continue to spin that he "helped" two teams make the AFCCG two years in a row that's your prerogative but obviously his poor statistical performance indicates that's simply not in touch with reality. He held back two potential championship teams from reaching their potential with poor play -- again your only evidence he succeeded is listing team success and arbitrarily claiming he is the reason for that success even though all numbers (and anyone with a set of eyes) would indicate he was the weak link.

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16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Even if the run game was overrated, you failed to illustrate how the passing game carried the day. You can't, of course, because it didn't.

And if you want to continue to spin that he "helped" two teams make the AFCCG two years in a row that's your prerogative but obviously his poor statistical performance indicates that's simply not in touch with reality. He held back two potential championship teams from reaching their potential with poor play -- again your only evidence he succeeded is listing team success and arbitrarily claiming he is the reason for that success even though all numbers (and anyone with a set of eyes) would indicate he was the weak link.

of course I can.  Let's look at the wins:

 

vs. NE: sanchez throws 3 TDs(w/o Holmes)

at Miami: sanchez throws another 3 TDs(w/ Holmes and w/o Braylon for 1st qtr)

at Buf: we ran all over them

vs. Min- mix

at Den: Trailing late it was the pass game that set up the comeback

at Det: 74 yd TD to end 1st half, trailing 20-10 w/ under 4 mins pass game tied it up and big pass play in OT set up GW FG

at Cle: Pass game won it in OT in a game that never should have got to OT but our K missed a bunch of Kicks and our overrated D blew another late lead.

vs. Hou: D blew another lead, pass game saved us w/ one of greatest drives in Jets history to win it late.

vs. Hou: more STs/D won this game

at Pitt: sanchez was sensational, D almost belw another lead

Indy playoffs: run game set us up, pass game won it.  

NE playoffs: 3 more TDs as pass game carried the day.

 

he elevated those teams, we had a HALL OF FAMER against weaker sched and no Brady in 2008 and couldn't even make the playoffs. Better QBs w/ better teams around them than Mark couldn't beat Mark in those 2 postseasons and we lost both title games b/c our D/STs fell flat not b/c of the QB. the QB gave us a chance at Pitt.

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26 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

of course I can.  Let's look at the wins:

 

vs. NE: sanchez throws 3 TDs(w/o Holmes)

at Miami: sanchez throws another 3 TDs(w/ Holmes and w/o Braylon for 1st qtr)

at Buf: we ran all over them

vs. Min- mix

at Den: Trailing late it was the pass game that set up the comeback

at Det: 74 yd TD to end 1st half, trailing 20-10 w/ under 4 mins pass game tied it up and big pass play in OT set up GW FG

at Cle: Pass game won it in OT in a game that never should have got to OT but our K missed a bunch of Kicks and our overrated D blew another late lead.

vs. Hou: D blew another lead, pass game saved us w/ one of greatest drives in Jets history to win it late.

vs. Hou: more STs/D won this game

at Pitt: sanchez was sensational, D almost belw another lead

Indy playoffs: run game set us up, pass game won it.  

NE playoffs: 3 more TDs as pass game carried the day.

 

he elevated those teams, we had a HALL OF FAMER against weaker sched and no Brady in 2008 and couldn't even make the playoffs. Better QBs w/ better teams around them than Mark couldn't beat Mark in those 2 postseasons and we lost both title games b/c our D/STs fell flat not b/c of the QB. the QB gave us a chance at Pitt.

You're crazy. The big difference between the 08 and 09-10 Jets was the DEFENSE. Rex has his faults but he took a team that was middle of the pack (16th in YPG, 18th in PPG) and made them elite the following year (1st in PPG, 1st in YPG) in 2009 -- and you know what? The team didn't even improve in wins. Why? Because they had a rookie QB who sucked and threw 20 INTs to his 12 TDs.

If you're going to do a breakdown of Sanchez's 2010 performance why are you leaving out the losses?

Baltimore -- Was dreadful and is the direct reason we lost a game where our defense only allowed 10 points.

NE -- Played great, one of his best games as a pro.

@ Miami -- Game buoyed by a few big plays, but a very good game. At this point it was looking like he was taking the next step.

@ Buf -- Was a serviceable game manager, wasn't asked to do much. Played fine given the circumstances.

Min -- Played poorly. Couldn't complete many passes, couldn't move the ball. Bailed out by defense and running game.

Denver -- Terrible game we should have lost, Sanchez threw two picks and generally sucked. We won a prayer.

GB -- Shut out at home. Awful game by Sanchez, lost 10-0 in a pathetic game by the whole offense.

@ Detroit -- Losing to a bad team on the road where the defense played fine -- Sanchez sucked for 3Q then pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

@ Cle -- Ditto to the above.

Hou -- Good game by Sanchez. 

Cin -- Solid game by Sanchez -- wasn't asked to do much but played fine.

@ NE -- Dreadful game by Sanchez, forgiven slightly because the entire offense and entire defense sucked. One of the worst all around performances in NYJ history.

Mia -- Another awful performance by Sanchez against a bad team. Lost 10-6, couldn't' get anything going, 0 TDs, 1 INT.

@ Pitt -- Sanchez was efficient but not great. No touchdowns, only 170 yards but didn't make the mistake. Special teams were huge in this game.

@ Chi -- Played mediocre. Defense let us down.

Bills -- Didn't throw a pass in a Jets blowout win.

@ IND Playoffs -- Sucked for 3 quarters, threw 0 TDs and 1 INT in a game where the defense was outstanding holding Peyton to 16 points.

@ NE Playoffs -- He was great, best game of his career IMO.

@ PIT Playoffs -- Sucked and did nothing in the first half other than get strip sacked for a score that put us in a really tough spot. Mounted a respectable comeback attempt. Poor performance by the team all around so I won't kill him.

 

So yeah, that's it. If you think he was a huge factor in that success, more power to you, but he had as many games with a passer rating under 60 as he did with a passer rating over 100 which is simply terrible. With an above average QB we're 13-3 or better.

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8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So yeah, that's it. If you think he was a huge factor in that success, more power to you, but he had as many games with a passer rating under 60 as he did with a passer rating over 100 which is simply terrible. With an above average QB we're 13-3 or better.

I'd go as far as saying that we had to win 4 road playoff games those years instead of something much better because we had a suspect young Qb in the fold.  That team with a solid vet QB could have easily had at least one home game in those years or win div titles.

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9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're crazy. The big difference between the 08 and 09-10 Jets was the DEFENSE. Rex has his faults but he took a team that was middle of the pack (16th in YPG, 18th in PPG) and made them elite the following year (1st in PPG, 1st in YPG) in 2009 -- and you know what? The team didn't even improve in wins. Why? Because they had a rookie QB who sucked and threw 20 INTs to his 12 TDs.

If you're going to do a breakdown of Sanchez's 2010 performance why are you leaving out the losses?

Baltimore -- Was dreadful and is the direct reason we lost a game where our defense only allowed 10 points.

NE -- Played great, one of his best games as a pro.

@ Miami -- Game buoyed by a few big plays, but a very good game. At this point it was looking like he was taking the next step.

@ Buf -- Was a serviceable game manager, wasn't asked to do much. Played fine given the circumstances.

Min -- Played poorly. Couldn't complete many passes, couldn't move the ball. Bailed out by defense and running game.

Denver -- Terrible game we should have lost, Sanchez threw two picks and generally sucked. We won a prayer.

GB -- Shut out at home. Awful game by Sanchez, lost 10-0 in a pathetic game by the whole offense.

@ Detroit -- Losing to a bad team on the road where the defense played fine -- Sanchez sucked for 3Q then pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

@ Cle -- Ditto to the above.

Hou -- Good game by Sanchez. 

Cin -- Solid game by Sanchez -- wasn't asked to do much but played fine.

@ NE -- Dreadful game by Sanchez, forgiven slightly because the entire offense and entire defense sucked. One of the worst all around performances in NYJ history.

Mia -- Another awful performance by Sanchez against a bad team. Lost 10-6, couldn't' get anything going, 0 TDs, 1 INT.

@ Pitt -- Sanchez was efficient but not great. No touchdowns, only 170 yards but didn't make the mistake. Special teams were huge in this game.

@ Chi -- Played mediocre. Defense let us down.

Bills -- Didn't throw a pass in a Jets blowout win.

@ IND Playoffs -- Sucked for 3 quarters, threw 0 TDs and 1 INT in a game where the defense was outstanding holding Peyton to 16 points.

@ NE Playoffs -- He was great, best game of his career IMO.

@ PIT Playoffs -- Sucked and did nothing in the first half other than get strip sacked for a score that put us in a really tough spot. Mounted a respectable comeback attempt. Poor performance by the team all around so I won't kill him.

 

So yeah, that's it. If you think he was a huge factor in that success, more power to you, but he had as many games with a passer rating under 60 as he did with a passer rating over 100 which is simply terrible. With an above average QB we're 13-3 or better.

The team didn't improve in wins. why?  B/c the schedule was harder, b/c Brady was back.  the 2009 team wins 12 games in 2008.  and yes the D was ranked #1 but how many leads did they blow? at Miami, vs. Jax, vs. Atl and the biggest one of all- a double digit lead in the AFC Championship Game against a legendary choker.

 

You clearly don't remember that baltimore game.  Obviously he and the O played poorly BUT that the D was equally as awful and rex being scared of the Bal D and not allowing the O to play killed them too.  How many 3rd and longs did we give up that night?

Baltimore held the ball for nearly 40 minutes, why? Our D allowed conversions on:

3rd and 9

3rd and 13

3rd and 28

3rd and 9

3rd and 9

3rd and 10

3rd and 7

3rd and 10

3rd and 10

The O was terrible but the D was terrible as well, they allowed Baltimore to sustain drives all night long and control the clock.  somehow this was Mark Sanchez's fault.

 

the Minnesota game was in a MONSOON and he didn't turn it over(unlike his counterpart, HOFer Brett Favre).  he kept putting points on the board in difficult conditions and didn't turn it over.  he not only didn't play poorly he actually played very well.

101013-jets-vikings-sanchez-wallpaper-49

 

at Denver: had his first INTs of the year but battled back. led a TD drive to tie w/ over 8 mins left then the D gave it right back before he l;ed the final scoring drive to win it.

 

GB: he wasn't good, bad weather day affected both offenses.  the real score was 3-0 though, they credited him w/ 2 INts which, if anything, were fumbles by the receivers and each guy was down.

 

at Det: it's hard to win down 10 w/ under 4 mins to play no matter who it is against.  he was great down the stretch in leading us to victory.  it's amazing how you can bash him for doing that against bad team but not bash the D for allowing 20 pts to bad O especially when their starting QB was knocked out.  for your info, the last 3 drives(TD and FG to tie then FG to win in OT) he was 10 of 12, 144 yds, 1 rush TD.

 

at Cleveland, again you bash mark for beating bad team but give D a pass for getting gashed by bad team?  and oh by the way Cle had just beat No and NE(handing Pats 1 of only 2 reg season losses that year along w/ the sanchez led Jets). Mark was outstanding and the D/STs almost blew it but he and the pass O saved us.

 

at NE- everybody sucked

at Pitt- he was outstanding that day, the #s don't tell the story especially coming back after the NE/Mia disasters, he was playing hurt and made good throws, good decisions, big plays and led us to our first(and only) win ever at Pitt.

at Chi: he wasn't great but again our D blew a double digit lead and they allowed 38 pts.  can't expect anyone to win when D allows 38.

at Ind playoffs: did not suck for 3 qtrs, struggled in 1st half.  Got ground game going to start 2nd and made big plays on key 3rd downs.  he was excellent in the 2nd half and led GW drive setting up chip shot FG to win it on the road. Peyton in playoff losses led his O's to an average of 14 PPG.

at Pitt: our "big time" D allowed Pitt to take opening KO and hold ball for 9 minutes while scoring a TD, it was almost 2nd qtr before Mark touched ball.  he got blindsided on that hit where we never should have been throwing in that situation anyway and despite that play he led us right back for a FG to end the half and a TD to start 2nd to make it 23-10 early in 3rd and he gave us a chance.  pulled us w/in 5 w/ plenty of time left and our D couldn't get a stop.

 

I don't THINK he was a huge factor I KNOW he was.  he was vital to both runs, he became a bad QB when his main weapons were chaz schilens, stephen hill and clyde gates.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'd go as far as saying that we had to win 4 road playoff games those years instead of something much better because we had a suspect young Qb in the fold.  That team with a solid vet QB could have easily had at least one home game in those years or win div titles.

we had a pretty sold vet against easier sched and no Brady in 2008, how many home playoff games did we host?  you do know NE was 14-2 in 2010, right?  who, other than Brady, would have had the 2010 Jets at 14-2?

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26 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'd go as far as saying that we had to win 4 road playoff games those years instead of something much better because we had a suspect young Qb in the fold.  That team with a solid vet QB could have easily had at least one home game in those years or win div titles.

let's look at the losses and who deserve most of the blame:

 

2009: 

at NO: Sanchez

at Mia: D

vs. Buf: sanchez

vs. Mia: D

vs. jax: D

at NE: team

vs. atl: team

so w/ better QB play we could have won 2 more but w/ better D we could have won 3 more. w/ 2 more wins we finish at 11-5, NE was at 10-6 but they also rested guys week 17, if they needed it they would have won and still won division.

 

2010:

vs. Bal: team

vs GB: sanchez

at NE: team

vs. Miami: team

at Chi: D

 

so w/ better QB play we win 1 more, w/ better D we win 1 more.  NE was 14-2.  Please explain where all these div titles and home playoff games should have come from?

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On 2/8/2017 at 2:14 PM, nyjunc said:

awesome, Troy Aikman transferred from Oklahoma.  he did ok.  didn't Newton transfer out of Florida?  Mitch may suck, I just don't think it's fair to say b/c he couldn't beat our Marquise or that b/c he only played one year(+) that he won't succeed in the NFL.

Aikman transfered because he wasn't a "wish-bone" QB! Mahomes flat out forced these guys to transfer to other schools because they weren't good enough to beat him out. And he's younger. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Greg Cosell of NFL Films examines top combine prospects at quarterback

Sam FarmerContact Reporter

Greg Cosell, a senior producer for NFL Films, spends much of his life breaking down game footage and evaluating college football players. The nephew of legendary broadcaster Howard Cosell, he’s widely respected in NFL circles for his knowledge of the game. Here, he weighs in on the four top quarterback prospects at the NFL combine:

DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame:  “He looks the part. He’s got the size you want, a really good arm. When you watch Kizer there’s a lot of things that you really like. But then there’s an issue when you watch him on tape that he has what we call ‘slow eyes.’ He tends to be a beat late on a lot of throws. If you’re a beat late in college, that just gets exacerbated at the NFL level. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to draft him, but it’s something you need to be aware of and work on. As you build your offense with DeShone Kizer, you have to be aware of certain route concepts and play calls that might make that problem worse.”

Patrick Mahomes, Texas Tech:  “He’s got a very good arm. He’s a loose thrower. But he played in the Air Raid offense for Kliff Kingsbury. It’s an offense built on timing and structure and rhythm, and he played with almost no timing and structure and rhythm. He’s really gifted in a lot of areas. But buried under a lot of NFL-type talent is an alarming lack of any refinement for the position at this moment. He’s someone who’s going to need to be coached hard, harnessed. He’s going to have to be receptive to the principles of being a nuanced, disciplined NFL quarterback. The playmaking mentality that he thrived on in college is going to have to be channeled and almost re-trained. He needs to be receptive to that.”

Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina:  “There’s a toughness and competitiveness to the way he plays that’s very appealing. For the most part he was safe with the football. But he has a flaw that you have to be careful about. When he throws the ball, he locks his front leg. When you do that, you can’t really drive the ball. So there’s a lot of throws with Trubisky that at the intermediate and deep-intermediate level where the ball loses energy. A lot of those throws in college were successful, they were touchdowns, but they were not throws that will work in the NFL. Normally, guys that are locked-front-leg throwers, that doesn’t change through coaching. It’s just something you have to be aware of.”

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-combine-qb-prospects-20170302-story.html

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