Every throw from Mike Glennon

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

then tell me what you see in Glennon that I don't.  He's going to be a career back up most likely.  Probably the best option for him or a low level starter such as Fitzpatrick.  There's nothing I see there to get excited about.  Furthermore, if spending money on this likely future journeyman means we have to wait even longer for a franchise QB, then it would be a bad thing to waste time and money on him.  

There isn't much in any of the clips that Villain has posted to make his case as persuasive as he (and you) think it is.  Convince me.  He looks to be average.

I respect that you aren't convinced.......

But I think a simple recounting of Glennon's stats will tell you at least he will be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over what we have had to endure over the last decade at the QB position.

Indeed IMO Glennon would be an instant upgrade over Hack and Petty (whom I like) and would afford the Jets a chance to breathe on the field while upgrading at other key positions.  Glennon's acquisition doesn't mean we would have to stop developing the other QBs, Hack and Petty.  On the contrary his acquisition would mean that the Jets could develop the "dynamic duo" without the pressure of having to start them when they aren't ready.

I wont even begin to address or recount what we saw in the QB position last year, suffice it to say, it was historically bad play, historically bad and there have been articles pointing out this very fact.

Now is this gambit risk free?

Of course not!! 

The NFL is littered with great players who are acquired and end up disappointing their new team and nothing yet says Glennon is great!  No move is without its unknowns and inherent risks but one thing the move would do is it gives the team and more importantly the Jets fans, a chance to watch quality football even with average QB play.

I think that this is a far superior move than hoping that Petty or Hack turn into Joe Montanna next year, or reaching with or for yet ANOTHER QB to develop, or tapping into a Cutler who is one concussion away from retirement.

I think that the Jets should be targeting this off season Glennon and Tyrod Taylor in that order for the reasons stated above and there is plenty of room on the train for you to join us...  

[HessStation]

Who has the internet speed to deal with P1 of this ******* thread? 

[sourceworx]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Where's the part where Villain tells us what's happening on the throw - despite what we're actually seeing? That's my favorite part.

I know you're just trolling him, but so far I'm seeing a lot of what he's been talking about in his arguments. In the two games Villain has put up in this thread, Glennon has been under quite a bit of pressure, and his receivers have dropped some very catchable balls. I think Glennon looks pretty good in that Philly game.

Then again, he doesn't need to sell me on Glennon. I've been a fan since the guy was coming out college.

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I guess I just don't understand how this improves out franchise.

What does a .500 veteran journeyman QB do to help us get closer to a Super Bowl?

What does this guy bring that makes the QB position stable and filled?  Why don't need stop-gaps, we need a long term starter.

I suppose I will never understand the thinking process that ends with "bring in some sh*tty backup journeyman" to start as opposed to simply playing your own draft picks as you develop them.  

The idea of bringing in a guy like Hoyer is precisely to bring in stability and so that you can play your own draft picks as you develop them.  Hoyer can back up and be the floor.  I assume, based upon their reluctance to play either, that they are not convinced that Petty or Hackenberg was ready for meaningful playing time.   Hopefully, they will be in 2017, but until sure I think this is the stopgap vet I would look at. If you really want to go all in on young guys, maybe a super low deal for Yates.  

There is also the very simple fact that Hoyer is better than a ".500 sh*tty backup journeyman."  In fact, my honest expectation is that he would outperform Glennon in 2017.  Yes, his record is near .500, but look how the teams did with other QBs.  True he was 1-4 with the Bears, but they were 3-13 overall.  He was 5-4 with the Texans who were 9-7, but with the Browns in 2014?  He was 7-6 and the team was 7-9.  In 2013 he was 3-0 and the team was 4-12.  I don't think you can hold his record against him.  The big knock is durability.  

The main reason not to sign him is that we won't be able to get Darnold.  That is kind of silly IMO, especially when discussing Glennon. 

[Scott Dierking]

The good news is that Cimini reports today the Jets WILL NOT be in on Cutler, despite the connections.

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I know you're just trolling him

.

[thshadow]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The thinking process that ends with "bring in some sh*tty backup journeyman" to start as opposed to simply playing your own draft picks as you develop them.  

I totally agree with this.  So many people say "keep drafting a QB until you have one" - which is way too extreme IMO, because you don't have enough time to play more than a couple and evaluate them.

But you *have* to play the ones you have to figure out what they are!

I'm not someone who would ever say to tank a season.  That being said - what's so scary about starting Petty / Hack this season?  The worst thing that can happen is we're terrible, and get a better draft pick - which is what some people want to do on purpose.  While Hoyer is the way to 7-9 and the same questions leading into 2018.

 

[thshadow]

@Villain The Foe - one piece of constructive feedback if you're going to do more of these - you should put a simple label by each of them, just (1), (2), (3), etc.  So if someone wanted they could actually comment on a specific clip.

 

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, thshadow said:

@Villain The Foe - one piece of constructive feedback if you're going to do more of these - you should put a simple label by each of them, just (1), (2), (3), etc.  So if someone wanted they could actually comment on a specific clip.

 

Thanks, but all someone has to do is copy the address of the clip, make a comment and paste the clip in the comment section so I know what they're commenting on. 

 

 

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Where's the part where Villain tells us what's happening on the throw - despite what we're actually seeing? That's my favorite part.

I miss when he would credit theoretical completions to help along his argument. 

[Lupz27]

I was all in trading a 2nd rounder for him last year, but now I've moved on, would have been nice to see him start 1 year (for the Jets, playing in NY, and specifically being the starting QB for the Jets is a different animal then TB) before having to pay him big $$$$$.  That being said I wouldn't be upset if this is the route the Jets went either if that makes sense.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

I respect that you aren't convinced.......

But I think a simple recounting of Glennon's stats will tell you at least he will be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over what we have had to endure over the last decade at the QB position.

Indeed IMO Glennon would be an instant upgrade over Hack and Petty (whom I like) and would afford the Jets a chance to breathe on the field while upgrading at other key positions.  Glennon's acquisition doesn't mean we would have to stop developing the other QBs, Hack and Petty.  On the contrary his acquisition would mean that the Jets could develop the "dynamic duo" without the pressure of having to start them when they aren't ready.

I wont even begin to address or recount what we saw in the QB position last year, suffice it to say, it was historically bad play, historically bad and there have been articles pointing out this very fact.

Now is this gambit risk free?

Of course not!! 

The NFL is littered with great players who are acquired and end up disappointing their new team and nothing yet says Glennon is great!  No move is without its unknowns and inherent risks but one thing the move would do is it gives the team and more importantly the Jets fans, a chance to watch quality football even with average QB play.

I think that this is a far superior move than hoping that Petty or Hack turn into Joe Montanna next year, or reaching with or for yet ANOTHER QB to develop, or tapping into a Cutler who is one concussion away from retirement.

I think that the Jets should be targeting this off season Glennon and Tyrod Taylor in that order for the reasons stated above and there is plenty of room on the train for you to join us...  

thank you for a thoughtful response.  Label me shellshocked by this team so I don't trust them to make the right move no matter what.  I truly have no idea whether Glennon can ever be more than a JAG QB.  We agree on the following: Glennon is way better than Petty. No faith in Petty being anywhere near NFL ready. Ever.  One of these days can we finally hit on a QB? Sometime in my lifetime perhaps?

Edit: Cutler is a catastrophe in the making.  Pair him with his buddy, Marshall?  Cut Marshall to sign  <gulp> Jay Cutler?  Don't want Cutler anywhere near here.

[Jetsfan80]

A middle-of-the-road QB like Glennon is the absolute worst possible solution for this franchise.  Being just good enough to go 7-9 or 8-8 is what we've basically been shooting for for the last 15 years, and it's not working. 

The NFL is the NBA now.  In the NBA you can't win a title without one of the top 6-8 players in the world on your team.  In the NFL you can't win a Super Bowl without one of the top 6-8 QB's in the league on your team. 

Thus, if you don't have a franchise QB, suck until you get one.  Don't settle for Fitzpatrick's or Glennon's.

[Jetsfan80]

And yeah, people will now proceed to scream about Flacco in '12 and Peyton in '16 at me now.  But Flacco was good enough to get his team to the playoffs and PLAYED like a top 6-8 QB for 4 games when he got there.  Much like Eli Manning did for the Giants. 

And Peyton, for as bad as he was throwing the ball, was at least able to manage the offense, because he still made presnap reads like a boss, then let his defense do what it needed to do. 

And in both of those cases, Flacco and Peyton had awesome rosters surrounding them.  We don't have that.  Not even close.  So what would a Mike Glennon do for us?  You can't go on a run in the postseason if you don't make it there.  GET the stud QB, THEN build around him.  Glennon is simply not a QB you build around. 

So if you want to use 2012 and 2016 to negate the argument I'm making, even though every other Super Bowl since 2004 has had at least one stud QB in it, have at it.  I won't be able to convince you otherwise.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A middle-of-the-road QB like Glennon is the absolute worst possible solution for this franchise.  Being just good enough to go 7-9 or 8-8 is what we've basically been shooting for for the last 15 years, and it's not working. 

The NFL is the NBA now.  In the NBA you can't win a title without one of the top 6-8 players in the world on your team.  In the NFL you can't win a Super Bowl without one of the top 6-8 QB's in the league on your team. 

Thus, if you don't have a franchise QB, suck until you get one.  Don't settle for Fitzpatrick's or Glennon's.

Interesting you say this now when this was my entire angle during our heated "conquering hero" debates. 

 

[Charlie Brown]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A middle-of-the-road QB like Glennon is the absolute worst possible solution for this franchise.  Being just good enough to go 7-9 or 8-8 is what we've basically been shooting for for the last 15 years, and it's not working. 

The NFL is the NBA now.  In the NBA you can't win a title without one of the top 6-8 players in the world on your team.  In the NFL you can't win a Super Bowl without one of the top 6-8 QB's in the league on your team. 

Thus, if you don't have a franchise QB, suck until you get one.  Don't settle for Fitzpatrick's or Glennon's.

You keep posting this!!!

Pray tell which NFL franchise QB are we overlooking for next year?????

Who is this great player we are all overlooking?

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You keep posting this!!!

Pray tell which NFL franchise QB are we overlooking for next year?????

 

When there are only 6-8 truly elite QB's on the planet, the scarcity necessitates patience rather than jumping at the next FA QB that comes available.  I don't know what the 2018 QB rookie market will bring.  That's not up to me to evaluate.  But Mike Glennon (and QB's like him) is not a good fix, either for the short term or long term. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Interesting you say this now when this was my entire angle during our heated "conquering hero" debates. 

 

Your philosophy was always strong.  I just thought Fitzpatrick was better than he was.  And I was enamored by the possibility of not having the worst QB play in the league for once.  It had been 8 years since we could say that. 

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Your philosophy was always strong.  I just thought Fitzpatrick was better than he was.  And I was enamored by the possibility of not having the worst QB play in the league for once.  It had been 8 years since we could say that. 

Let me get this right you were one of the posters BEGGING us to keep Fitzpatrick.........

And you now have the actual Chutzpah to suggest we shouldn't get Glennon a CLEAR upgrade to the trash that you and others like you lobbied for!!

You can't make it up!!!

[AFJF]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

Let me get this right you were one of the posters BEGGING us to keep Fitzpatrick.........

And you now have the actual Chutzpah to suggest we shouldn't get Glennon a CLEAR upgrade to the trash that you and others like you lobbied for!!

You can't make it up!!!

I supported Fitz all offseason, but it was because it was Fitz vs. Geno.  I said a million times over that I'd take Glennon over both.  

Hopefully it happens this off season.  Better late than never.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

Let me get this right you were one of the posters BEGGING us to keep Fitzpatrick.........

And you now have the actual Chutzpah to suggest we shouldn't get Glennon a CLEAR upgrade to the trash that you and others like you lobbied for!!

You can't make it up!!!

 

Those who don't learn the lessons from history are doomed to repeat them.  Shooting for mediocrity is no way to run a franchise.  We've been doing that for 15 years.  It doesn't work.  Trying to build a competent roster thru costly free agent signings while you have a stopgap QB at the helm just doesn't cut it. 

I used to be Saul and became Paul.  I saw the light.  You should be giving me credit here. 

[Beerfish]

[BRONX DUDE]

14 hours ago, prime21 said:

God Bless you Villian the Foe!

i appreciate your hard work putting that together. 

ditto

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Those who don't learn the lessons from history are doomed to repeat them.  Shooting for mediocrity is no way to run a franchise.  We've been doing that for 15 years.  It doesn't work.  Trying to build a competent roster thru costly free agent signings while you have a stopgap QB at the helm just doesn't cut it. 

I used to be Saul and became Paul.  I saw the light.  You should be giving me credit here. 

Clever my friend clever....  

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I supported Fitz all offseason, but it was because it was Fitz vs. Geno.   

Yeah, this. 

And when we brought in Fitz we got him for a 7th round pick and, at least at the time, he was very cost-friendly.  Even when we signed him to an extension it was very much on the low-end of QB deals.  Only Nick Foles was making less amongst the "stopgap" types.

But with Glennon, people are talking about signing him to the type of contract that would likely require at LEAST a 2-year commitment, both financially and on the field. 

It's hard to go after a franchise QB thru the draft when you bring in a guy to be your starter, and a guy capable of moving you out of top-10 pick range (but not good enough to make you a playoff team) at that. 

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Being on a forum and all, I'd agree. 

was bowles the dc for the cards when those clips were filmed?

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

was bowles the dc for the cards when those clips were filmed?

Yes...when Arizona was a top 10 defense in the NFL.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

The idea of bringing in a guy like Hoyer is precisely to bring in stability and so that you can play your own draft picks as you develop them. 

[Villain The Foe]

30 minutes ago, rangerous said:

was bowles the dc for the cards when those clips were filmed?

I believe so

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The idea of bringing in a guy like Hoyer is precisely to bring in stability and so that you can play your own draft picks as you develop them.

Except Hoyer does not personify stability.  At most he would be a 1 year starter taking reps from other players, then a back-up or gone.  He's a gap filler in a lague where there is nothing to be gained from filling gaps with sub-par talent.

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I assume, based upon their reluctance to play either, that they are not convinced that Petty or Hackenberg was ready for meaningful playing time.   Hopefully, they will be in 2017, but until sure I think this is the stopgap vet I would look at. If you really want to go all in on young guys, maybe a super low deal for Yates.

If they indeed lack faith in both Petty and Hackenberg, then the answer is to draft a QB #1 and play him.  Let him learn on the job.  Playing Hoyer in such a circumstance serves what purpose, takes snaps away from the draft pick and coddles him "till he's ready", the very same argument that Hack is operating under right now.

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

There is also the very simple fact that Hoyer is better than a ".500 sh*tty backup journeyman."  In fact, my honest expectation is that he would outperform Glennon in 2017.

Hoyer is not a good QB, I'm sorry.  There is a reason he is where he is right now.

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The big knock is durability.  

Which is a big knock to have if you're only purpose is gap-filler till someone better is ready to play.

[#27TheDominator]

It is very simple.  $2M is backup QB money.  Therefore, he can backup.  $9-12M is starter money.  You are not playing anybody else until after he sh*ts the bed.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, thshadow said:

I totally agree with this.  So many people say "keep drafting a QB until you have one" - which is way too extreme IMO, because you don't have enough time to play more than a couple and evaluate them.

But you *have* to play the ones you have to figure out what they are!

I'm not someone who would ever say to tank a season.  That being said - what's so scary about starting Petty / Hack this season?  The worst thing that can happen is we're terrible, and get a better draft pick - which is what some people want to do on purpose.  While Hoyer is the way to 7-9 and the same questions leading into 2018.

 

This is perhaps ideal, actually.

Petty and Hack and some other Practice Squad QB or mid-round draft pick, or even a QB at #6.

Winner of Hack v. Petty starts.  

If they fail, the other starts the rest of year.

If both fail, both are gone next year.

This plan is exceptionally cheap (cap wise).  

It gives unquestionably opportunity to OUR guys, the guys OUR GM picked and wanted.  

And it makes certain, once and for all, if Petty or Hack are worth keeping and developing going forward.

Bringing in a Hoyer does absolutely nothing beyond perhaps going 8-8 instead of 6-10.  Pointless for the franchise, and a minor boon, if that, to fans.

Hoyer does not inspire (nor do players similar to him).  He will not win a Super Bowl, ever.  He does not advance your franchise, at all.  He effectively serves only to waste an entire season where nothing is gained, and no young QB's are truly evaluated by playing, where it counts. 

Petty and Hack will keep fans interested, if for no other reason than to see how they do.

And at years end, clearing the deck and trying again is as easy as humanly possible.

Recylced journeyman veterans are something the NFL does that simply isn't needed.

[Integrity28]

Trade Sheldon Richardson to Cincy for AJ Mccarron and a 6th rounder. 

Cincy loves the edgey, troublesome players. Jets need a QB that was picked and "developed", and Mccarron fits that bill. Then let him duke it out with the other two we have on the roster.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

"Mike Glennon literally throws ball backwards in loss to Panthers."

 

Yep.  Exactly the right guy for NY.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is very simple.  $2M is backup QB money.  Therefore, he can backup.  $9-12M is starter money.  You are not playing anybody else until after he sh*ts the bed.

starter money for guys not on their rookie deal is $12 to $20 million, and osweiller set the market at $16.5 for young guys