New Kiper Mock has us taking.....

[T0mShane]

I woke up from a nap just now and had a premonition that the Jets will draft Tim Williams at #6.

[thadude]

On February 15, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Mike135 said:

Hack and Fournette.  2017's Dak and Zeke.

Eh no

[neckdemon]

On 2/15/2017 at 9:30 AM, JiF said:

Gross.  I really dont like a RB at #6.  Just doesnt make sense to me.

On a side note, I think it's interesting he has Adams ahead of Hooker.  I've been saying it here a lot lately but Hooker being a 1 year wonder is nerve racking taking him that high.  If S was the pick, I'd prefer Adams.  Adams has been balling for 3 years, playing twice the level of competition.  The dude has been compared to some really good safeties. 

if we pick another ******* defensive player not named myles garrett i am done with this ******* sh*t team. our offense is ******* terrible. we need offense, you have to score in this damn league and we are terrible at that. 30/32 in scoring. thats god damned pathetic!!!!! fournette is a great pick for us. 

[neckdemon]

On 2/16/2017 at 11:43 AM, RoadFan said:

I think you're missing the grey point between the black and white. The answer is not just a yes or no as to whether or not a RB can be taken in the top 10.

I also believe a team can take a RB that early if there is a strong O-Line and at least a serviceable QB. 

But for a bad team, a RB that high makes zero sense.

if there is a better player available at 6 then yeah. but you dont just take an inferior player because its a position you think you need. myles garrett would be the edge rusher to take but obviously he will be gone. you dont just reach then for an OL because you think a rb is not worth it unless your o-line is better. if fournette is the bpa you take him and then work on making your o-line better etc....you don't pass up superior talent because the rest of your team is crappy as well. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

if we pick another ******* defensive player not named myles garrett i am done with this ******* sh*t team. our offense is ******* terrible. we need offense, you have to score in this damn league and we are terrible at that. 30/32 in scoring. thats god damned pathetic!!!!! fournette is a great pick for us. 

Meh the Jets need players and the secondary is a nightmare. The same offense was top 10 the year before.  They just had terrible QB play.  Teams don't get better, they get better QB play.  If they're not going QB they better not go RB.  That's just stupid. 

 

[neckdemon]

49 minutes ago, JiF said:

Meh the Jets need players and the secondary is a nightmare. The same offense was top 10 the year before.  They just had terrible QB play.  Teams don't get better, they get better QB play.  If they're not going QB they better not go RB.  That's just stupid. 

 

the qbs in this draft suck and are not worth it. fournette on the other hand is projected to be an all-star rb. your argument makes little sense. take a crappy qb instead of rb who looks like he can be great? this is why the jets suck every year, they pick sh*tty players from need. And the jets offense was actually 11th in 2015 which isnt exactly impressive. and it took the best year for a jets qb ever and the best year marshall ever had to get to. with that said they were still middle of the road in yds per play and couldnt even win when it counted. also....their 2015 scoring defense was actually 9th in the league. were you particularly impressed with the 2015 defense? i wasn't but they were tied with the cardinals and the texans in pts per game allowed. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

the qbs in this draft suck and are not worth it. fournette on the other hand is projected to be an all-star rb. your argument makes little sense. take a crappy qb instead of rb who looks like he can be great? this is why the jets suck every year, they pick sh*tty players from need. And the jets offense was actually 11th in 2015 which isnt exactly impressive. and it took the best year for a jets qb ever and the best year marshall ever had to get to. with that said they were still middle of the road in yds per play and couldnt even win when it counted. also....their 2015 scoring defense was actually 9th in the league. were you particularly impressed with the 2015 defense? i wasn't but they were tied with the cardinals and the texans in pts per game allowed. 

Who said they are crappy?  I'd be very happy with Watson.  

You don't waste the 6th overall pick on the easiest position to fill in the roster. 

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

Meh the Jets need players and the secondary is a nightmare. The same offense was top 10 the year before.  They just had terrible QB play.  Teams don't get better, they get better QB play.  If they're not going QB they better not go RB.  That's just stupid. 

 

If they're going to get better QB plsy, it's gonna come from Hackenberg magically becoming good. If you're going to play Hackenberg, you need to draft him a left tackle and/or a mule RB because he's going to have a nervous breakdown before preseason is over if he's asked to carry the offense.

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If they're going to get better QB plsy, it's gonna come from Hackenberg magically becoming good. 

You keep saying things like this. If Maccagnan passes on a legit QB prospect at 6 because of Hackenberg, then he's dumber than even I thought.

[section314]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

You keep saying things like this. If Maccagnan passes on a legit QB prospect at 6 because of Hackenberg, then he's dumber than even I thought.

Hackenberg is way better than any QB in this draft, and Macc knows it. 

[T0mShane]

35 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

You keep saying things like this. If Maccagnan passes on a legit QB prospect at 6 because of Hackenberg, then he's dumber than even I thought.

Who is this legit QB prospect you speak of? 

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Who is this legit QB prospect you speak of? 

I don't see anything wrong with Watson.

[BurnleyJet]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't see anything wrong with Watson.

I will take the Running Back.

We are tanking any way

[Tinstar]

47 minutes ago, section314 said:

Hackenberg is way better than any QB in this draft, and Macc knows it. 

That would be nice to find out, but until proven, you should never pass on a solid prospect . After Trubisky and Watson, you could take Towles after the draft or with a 7th round pick and have just as much chance 0f striking gold as picking Kizer in the 2nd .

[dbatesman]

50 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't see anything wrong with Watson.

I want to add something before people jump in to yap about pro-style offenses and arm talent and progressions and next year's QB class is so much better: please don't. I am completely done with "scouting" conversations in re: QB prospects. They're clearly just a big game of ookie cookie for draft nerds, and absolutely none of us, myself included, has even the slightest ******* idea what we're talking about. From now on, my criteria are as follows: 1. Did he start a bunch of games? 2. Did he complete a bunch of passes? If the answer to both is yes, just draft the guy. I'm done trying to suss out more than that from Youtube cutups and Mayock quotes.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Hackenberg is way better than any QB in this draft, and Macc knows it. 

Haha. No. 

[SenorGato]

17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I want to add something before people jump in to yap about pro-style offenses and arm talent and progressions and next year's QB class is so much better: please don't. I am completely done with "scouting" conversations in re: QB prospects. They're clearly just a big game of ookie cookie for draft nerds, and absolutely none of us, myself included, has even the slightest ******* idea what we're talking about. From now on, my criteria are as follows: 1. Did he start a bunch of games? 2. Did he complete a bunch of passes? If the answer to both is yes, just draft the guy. I'm done trying to suss out more than that from Youtube cutups and Mayock quotes.

Pretty much. That Watson also happened to win a ton is a nice too

[neckdemon]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

Who said they are crappy?  I'd be very happy with Watson.  

You don't waste the 6th overall pick on the easiest position to fill in the roster. 

Big difference between just filling a spot and getting a rb who looks like he has the ability to be the best in the league

[neckdemon]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

Who said they are crappy?  I'd be very happy with Watson.  

You don't waste the 6th overall pick on the easiest position to fill in the roster. 

Big difference between just filling a spot and getting a rb who looks like he has the ability to be the best in the league

[CrazyCarl40]

26 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I want to add something before people jump in to yap about pro-style offenses and arm talent and progressions and next year's QB class is so much better: please don't. I am completely done with "scouting" conversations in re: QB prospects. They're clearly just a big game of ookie cookie for draft nerds, and absolutely none of us, myself included, has even the slightest ******* idea what we're talking about. From now on, my criteria are as follows: 1. Did he start a bunch of games? 2. Did he complete a bunch of passes? If the answer to both is yes, just draft the guy. I'm done trying to suss out more than that from Youtube cutups and Mayock quotes.

If he's the best QB in the class, he won't be there at 6. There are at least two teams ahead of the Jets that will want him or another team trading up. 

[Jetsmanjb]

On February 15, 2017 at 10:11 AM, T0mShane said:

What if Fournette is really good? 

We can't risk not taking him if he's there at 6.  I think he barely manages to squeak by Jacksonville at 4.   

[InstantClassic]

On 2/16/2017 at 7:43 AM, jamesr said:

Where teams are tied on record, strength of schedule is used as a tie-breaker. However, those tied teams then rotate in later rounds. So if you have 2 5-11 teams like this year, the team with the weaker SoS picks first in Rd 1 / 3 / 5 / 7, but second in 2 / 4 / 6 (and we already traded our 4).

Thank you!

[T0mShane]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I want to add something before people jump in to yap about pro-style offenses and arm talent and progressions and next year's QB class is so much better: please don't. I am completely done with "scouting" conversations in re: QB prospects. They're clearly just a big game of ookie cookie for draft nerds, and absolutely none of us, myself included, has even the slightest ******* idea what we're talking about. From now on, my criteria are as follows: 1. Did he start a bunch of games? 2. Did he complete a bunch of passes? If the answer to both is yes, just draft the guy. I'm done trying to suss out more than that from Youtube cutups and Mayock quotes.

He throws the ball like it's covered in baby oil.

[T0mShane]

On 2/16/2017 at 8:16 AM, jamesr said:

I think so far there's a compelling reason for us to NOT draft anyone at all at 6 :

QB - no value, need to give Hack a chance

RB - too high, you can find good RBs later, we already have Forte and Powell

WR - we're already stacked, it'd be a luxury pick

TE - too high, not a premium position

OT - no value, mid first round at best

OG / C - not a premium position, can be found in later rounds

DL - we're already stacked, it'd be a wasted pick

OLB - no value at 6

ILB - too high, just took Lee last year

CB - "not again!!!!" Draft is really deep, can get a good player later

S - not a premium position

Personally I'd expect us to go either CB or S ... I can already hear the objections about another CB, but the past is just that - we have nothing to show for it. It could be argued we should "double dip" at CB this draft, especially with the depth this year. S may not be "value" but the chance to draft an elite player at a non-elite position appeals to me more than drafting a non-elite player at an elite position (Ed Reed vs. Bryan Thomas - enough said!). I'd be happy enough with a WR or RB, as we do need playmakers and a lot of our established guys are nearing the end (will Forte, BM or Decker still be here in 2018??). I wouldn't even be too upset if we reached a bit for an OLB / pass rusher.

Whatever we do, I'm sure there'll be enough controversy to keep these boards busy all summer.  

They'll go DB two out of their first three picks guaranteed. The other pick will be an non-pass rushing OLB.

[House Jet]

Fournette is a f**king beast. Hes a man amongst boys. If the jets drafted him i would be beyond happy short shelf life and value be damned. We at the very least deserve to watch an exciting player. He'll be the best friend of any qb we trot out there.

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Big difference between just filling a spot and getting a rb who looks like he has the ability to be the best in the league

Not really.  Todd Gurley was terrible this season.  Do you not think the Rams thought they were drafting the potential best RB in the league?

Do you think the Chargers thought they were getting a potential ProBowl RB when they took Melvin Gordon and his 3.7 per carry?

What about David Wilson, Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, Mark Ingram, Jahvid Best, Ryan Matthews, CJ Spiller, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown, Knoshown Mareno, Rahsard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, Darren McFadden - because those guys were all amazing in college and 1st round RB's who were supposed to ProBowlers.  They also happen to serve as a perfect example of why you dont waste a 1st round pick, let a lone 6th overall on a RB.

I like this one too because it's fun.  Of the top 10 RB's in the NFL from a yard perspective this season, 1 player was a 1st round pick and he plays behind the best OL in Football.

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

14 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I don't see anything wrong with Watson.

 

13 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I want to add something before people jump in to yap about pro-style offenses and arm talent and progressions and next year's QB class is so much better: please don't. I am completely done with "scouting" conversations in re: QB prospects. They're clearly just a big game of ookie cookie for draft nerds, and absolutely none of us, myself included, has even the slightest ******* idea what we're talking about. From now on, my criteria are as follows: 1. Did he start a bunch of games? 2. Did he complete a bunch of passes? If the answer to both is yes, just draft the guy. I'm done trying to suss out more than that from Youtube cutups and Mayock quotes.

haha - pretty much.  It's by far the toughest position to evaluate in all of sports, even for the guys who do this all the time.  There is no measurable statistic or athletic measurement (combine stuff) that can be used to evaluate QB's.  It's complete and utter crap shoot.  That said, I think your criteria is strong. haha

I like playing this game, who would you rather have all things equal and they came out the same year?  Carson Wentz, Jared Goff or Deshaun Watson?  I'm not thinking twice about it and those 2 nobodies when 1st and 2nd overall.

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

haha - pretty much.  It's by far the toughest position to evaluate in all of sports, even for the guys who do this all the time.  There is no measurable statistic or athletic measurement (combine stuff) that can be used to evaluate QB's.  It's complete and utter crap shoot.  That said, I think your criteria is strong. haha

I like playing this game, who would you rather have all things equal and they came out the same year?  Carson Wentz, Jared Goff or Deshaun Watson?  I'm not thinking twice about it and those 2 nobodies when 1st and 2nd overall.

This is actually a good example of what I mean. I was all about trading up for Goff, because Wentz didn't start a lot of games. Then Wentz was an OROY candidate and Goff looked like Kyle Boller. So what the hell do I know?

[section314]

14 hours ago, Tinstar said:

That would be nice to find out, but until proven, you should never pass on a solid prospect . After Trubisky and Watson, you could take Towles after the draft or with a 7th round pick and have just as much chance 0f striking gold as picking Kizer in the 2nd .

Agree 100%

[neckdemon]

10 hours ago, JiF said:

Not really.  Todd Gurley was terrible this season.  Do you not think the Rams thought they were drafting the potential best RB in the league?

Do you think the Chargers thought they were getting a potential ProBowl RB when they took Melvin Gordon and his 3.7 per carry?

What about David Wilson, Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, Mark Ingram, Jahvid Best, Ryan Matthews, CJ Spiller, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown, Knoshown Mareno, Rahsard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, Darren McFadden - because those guys were all amazing in college and 1st round RB's who were supposed to ProBowlers.  They also happen to serve as a perfect example of why you dont waste a 1st round pick, let a lone 6th overall on a RB.

I like this one too because it's fun.  Of the top 10 RB's in the NFL from a yard perspective this season, 1 player was a 1st round pick and he plays behind the best OL in Football.

 

 

 

Fournette is better than every rb on this list. Only one close is probably Gurley (who I would also take on this team in a heartbeat) and Fournette is still a better prospect. Listen I know we don't agree, but Fournette is a ******* monster

As far as Watson goes.....we already have a prospect with accuracy issues.

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Fournette is better than every rb on this list. Only one close is probably Gurley (who I would also take on this team in a heartbeat) and Fournette is still a better prospect. Listen I know we don't agree, but Fournette is a ******* monster

As far as Watson goes.....we already have a prospect with accuracy issues.

That's very debatable.  Those guys were all "monsters" in college.  A couple were Heisman winners.  Many of them were/are much more versatile than Fournette.  And none of them had a chronic ankle injury that I recall. 

Tell me more about the accuracy issues of the most accurate QB in the history of the ACC.

[section314]

23 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is actually a good example of what I mean. I was all about trading up for Goff, because Wentz didn't start a lot of games. Then Wentz was an OROY candidate and Goff looked like Kyle Boller. So what the hell do I know?

That's way too high praise. This guy has Rick Mirer stamped on his forehead.

[thadude]

We're not drafting Fournette

[thadude]

On February 20, 2017 at 7:55 AM, JiF said:

Not really.  Todd Gurley was terrible this season.  Do you not think the Rams thought they were drafting the potential best RB in the league?

Do you think the Chargers thought they were getting a potential ProBowl RB when they took Melvin Gordon and his 3.7 per carry?

What about David Wilson, Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, Mark Ingram, Jahvid Best, Ryan Matthews, CJ Spiller, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown, Knoshown Mareno, Rahsard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, Darren McFadden - because those guys were all amazing in college and 1st round RB's who were supposed to ProBowlers.  They also happen to serve as a perfect example of why you dont waste a 1st round pick, let a lone 6th overall on a RB.

I like this one too because it's fun.  Of the top 10 RB's in the NFL from a yard perspective this season, 1 player was a 1st round pick and he plays behind the best OL in Football.

 

 

 

Gurley with no blocking and horrible Qb play couldn't even get 1,000 yards this year as a fulltime running back

 

And people here were drooling over this guy two years ago same way they are salivating over Fournette and Cook

 

[neckdemon]

10 hours ago, JiF said:

That's very debatable.  Those guys were all "monsters" in college.  A couple were Heisman winners.  Many of them were/are much more versatile than Fournette.  And none of them had a chronic ankle injury that I recall. 

Tell me more about the accuracy issues of the most accurate QB in the history of the ACC.

30 interceptions in 2 years. I personally don't like the "dual threat" style qbs. They don't seem to transfer well to the nfl game.