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Revis involved in Altercation; Criminal Charges Filed - MERGED


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1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Yeah if we need your help moderating you will get a message from me asking for it. Until such time, there is absolutely no need for you to tell people to leave this site because you don't agree with them.

I'm not playing the role of mod.  I am expressing my opinion.  There may not be "a need", but I sure as hell wanted to say it.  No regrets about saying it either.  It is well deserved, IMO.   

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I heard he backed up 10 yards immediately  when they approached.

He is accused of robbing millions from the NY Jets.

No man is an island. 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Not the same, we're talking about a player, his talents and how good a player he was.  Not the same thing as which Jet player benefitted from playing on a better team.  Just as it's not his fault that his opposite corner was thrown to in the last quarter because QBs knew beating Revis was next to impossible and even knowing the ball their way couldn't make a play.  What does that have to do with Revis?  

Think about it: 

If your best player can't be a playmaker, then is he your best player? 

Is the absence of making an impact play an impact? 

If the QB was forced to throw to the other side of the field and had success, was there even a point?

SAR I

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Namath part of 2 playoff wins

Klecko 3 playoff wins(and I think he was hurt for all the playoff wins in '82 and '86)

mawae 3 playoff wins

mangold 4 playoff wins

Revis 4 playoff wins

 

Jets Pass D's w/ revis:

2007: 5th in attempts, 9th in yds

2008: 29 and 29

2009: 7th and 1st

2010: 15th and 6th

2011: 8th and 5th

2015: 23 and 13

2016: 8 and 1

and he did this without and good pass rushers, imagine if he had a top pass rushers wreaking havoc on opposing QBs?

only twice in his career were our D's ranked lower in pass yds allowed than pass attempts- his rookie season and last season.  outside of '08 and '16 we averaged being ranked 12th in pass attempts and 7th in pass yds so we weren;t giving up a ton of yardage through the air as he was shutting down every teams best option.

Good analysis, I still don't see it.

Darelle Revis is the greatest player to have no impact in NFL history.  Sort of like having the greatest long snapper in NFL history.  It's great, better than having someone lousy, but in the end it doesn't translate much to W's and L's.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This is hysterical. Especially for those of us old enough to have lived through that era, you are embarrassing yourself. I honestly do not have the energy to argue with you as I deem it utterly useless. 

Please focus your attention on present day Jets football. However I will give you one piece of advice,  F*ck the stats. 

his own teammates wanted to tear him apart but please live in your childhood and ignore the facts.  he literally threw away the 1967 season and was literally throwing away the 1968 season.  Instead of hurling insults please try to counter it, tell me why they were struggling? give me some valid reasons other than Joe's poor play b/c, as we all know, Joe could do no wrong.

 

The funny thing is if Joe had the exact same career in this era w/ social media he'd be run out of town by Jet fans.

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2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

:-k

 Over the final four games of the season, he totalled 5 tackles, 4 passes defended and 1 interception. He looked strong at the line and fluid when turning to cover. Coming out of college he was considered a good press corner with a smooth backpedal and we definitely saw that over the final weeks.

Over the final four games of the season, he totalled 5 tackles, 4 passes defended and 1 interception, but he looked weak at the line and stiff when turning to cover. Coming out of college he was considered a poor athlete with marginal speed and we definitely saw that over the final weeks.

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Just now, SAR I said:

Think about it: 

If your best player can't be a playmaker, then is he your best player? 

Is the absence of making an impact play an impact? 

If the QB was forced to throw to the other side of the field and had success, was there even a point?

SAR I

Apples and oranges. Marino was a great, great QB.  No less so because his teams weren't that good.  

How can keeping the QB from throwing to his best WR not be the point?  How can making the QB go to plan be be a bad thing.  How can making Brady throw to the other side, cutting half of his field down not be impactful.  Never mind if for all these years you look at how drastically different a QBs rating is throwing to Revis vs to others.  That's the definition of impact.  

You make it sound like they didn't throw to Revis' side of the field by dumb luck and he just benefitted from it.  

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4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good analysis, I still don't see it.

Darelle Revis is the greatest player to have no impact in NFL history.  Sort of like having the greatest long snapper in NFL history.  It's great, better than having someone lousy, but in the end it doesn't translate much to W's and L's.

SAR I

how do you shut down the opponents best player week after week after week and not have any impact?

 

as far as wins and losses.  1987-2006 we had a total of 3 playoff wins while 2007-2011, 2015-16 we won 4.  20 seasons vs. 7 seasons.

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

you don't have to like him but he's the best player we have ever had so he should be appreciated. it's sad how we tear down our ex players and coaches that have had success here.

Being beloved an appreciated are both emotional terms.  As such, they come with an emotional context.  I appreciate Revis's play early in his career for the Jets.  But, I will not celebrate the career of a guy, who was for a short period, the best there is, but forced our hand to trade him because he was headed towards his 3rd hold out.  Has shown up out of shape more than once.  Won a Super Bowl with a division rival.  Then, came back on a huge contract that he significantly under performed, and ultimately, quit on the field.  That's Revis's full body of work.  He's no Champ Bailey and He's no Charles Woodson, even if at his best, he was better than them.

Ultimately, we are Jets fans, we are not Darrell Revis's bank account fans.  The way he handles himself with regard to the team, who we care about far more than him, and his full body of work, matters.  As such, most people respect his window of greatness, but still won't consider him an all time great Jet.  Because, being an all-time great Jet is more than having a couple of outstanding seasons.

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29 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we bash him b/c he was a brilliant negotiator? did you hate namath for qutting the Jets for months over a nightclub? did you hate gastineau for walking out on us? did you hate Chrebet for holding the Jets hostage in 2002?

 

Never said I hated him. I said I used to love the guy and have no sympathy for him now. Big difference. I also said that his contract negotiation is fine...can't blame the man for trying to make as much dough as possible. But I don't have to like him as much after he holds the team hostage, as he had done multiple times. 

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5 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This is hysterical. Especially for those of us old enough to have lived through that era, you are embarrassing yourself. I honestly do not have the energy to argue with you as I deem it utterly useless. 

Please focus your attention on present day Jets football. However I will give you one piece of advice,  F*ck the stats. 

He's 100% wrong about present day Jets football as well.  In fact, he may be even more inaccurate with the current.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Over the final four games of the season, he totalled 5 tackles, 4 passes defended and 1 interception, but he looked weak at the line and stiff when turning to cover. Coming out of college he was considered a poor athlete with marginal speed and we definitely saw that over the final weeks.

How could he total the stats if he was a poor athlete? The stats disprove you

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2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Part of being beloved an appreciated are both emotional terms.  As such, they come with an emotional context.  I appreciate Revis's play early in his career for the Jets.  But, I will not celebrate the career of a guy, who was for a short period, the best there is, but forced our hand to trade him because he was headed towards his 3rd hold out.  Has shown up out of shape more than once.  Won a Super Bowl with a division rival.  Then, came back on a huge contract that he significantly under performed, and ultimately, quit on the field.  That's Revis's full body of work.  He's no Champ Bailey and He's no Charles Woodson, even if at his best, he was better than them.

Ultimately, we are Jets fans, we are not Darrell Revis's bank account fans.  The way he handles himself with regard to the team, who we care about far more than him, and his full body of work, matters.  As such, most people respect his window of greatness, but still won't consider him an all time great Jet.  Because, being an all-time great Jet is more than having a couple of outstanding seasons.

he didn't force anything, he wanted what he was worth.  we didn't have to trade him and if Tannenbaum is still around I don't believe we do trade him.

 

He was a million times better than Champ and Woodson, those 2 weren't half the cover corners Revis was.  

 

Ultimately we have so few great players in our history and in a rare instance we have a drafted one yet we want to bash him.  LT was literally a bad human being, as bad as you can be and is beloved b/c of his greatness.  Revis isn't LT but he's the closest we have.

2 minutes ago, shevys said:

Never said I hated him. I said I used to love the guy and have no sympathy for him now. Big difference. I also said that his contract negotiation is fine...can't blame the man for trying to make as much dough as possible. But I don't have to like him as much after he holds the team hostage, as he had done multiple times. 

that's fair.

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We don't make it to two AFC Championship games without Revis. I am not fan of Revis the person, but as a player he made our defense great. Was our defense perfect? No, but in this day and age of guys like Dalton passing for 4200 yards a year, we couldn't have asked for more from a CB. He would shut down guys that no one else could stop and he did it every single week and he did it despite our defense not having an elite pass rush.  

So I guess this begs the question-  was he a great CB but not a great Jet?

If he were, say, a New England Patriot his entire career, do the Patriots beat the Giants twice and not come close against the Seahawks?  If he were on a team that could better appreciate his specific skills, would he then be an NFL immortal?

On the Jets, what did he really do?  Take away the #1 WR.  Okay.  Well most games the #2 and the #3 ate us alive on the other side of the field.  He allowed our safety to blitz more often?  Okay.  Well most games the TE ate us alive over the middle or we were beaten by a draw.  4th quarter crunch time holding a slight lead, he didn't have much impact as the spread offense would put 6 receivers into zones.

If the guy didn't have a lot of interceptions, didn't cause a lot of fumbles, didn't have many pick-sixes, and if the opposing OC could work around him, what did he really accomplish in New York?  Great player on a team that didn't need him that much?  Or overrated player on a secondary of weak talent allowing him to be avoided?

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This is hysterical. Especially for those of us old enough to have lived through that era, you are embarrassing yourself. I honestly do not have the energy to argue with you as I deem it utterly useless. 

Please focus your attention on present day Jets football. However I will give you one piece of advice,  F*ck the stats. 

You're wasting your time.  He argued with me on end that the SB team was lucky, Raiders played an extra playoff game, the team was carried by the defense and Sanchez had 4 playoff wins, more than Joe.  He has no understanding of how the game was played back then, the differences in the game and how stats were different for those reasons.  Yes, the Jets had the number 1 defense, but they also had a great offense.  

And never a mention that they also had a season where they played a road playoff game for no apparent reason after winning the division and having a top record. 

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he didn't force anything, he wanted what he was worth.  we didn't have to trade him and if Tannenbaum is still around I don't believe we do trade him.

 

He was a million times better than Champ and Woodson, those 2 weren't half the cover corners Revis was.  

 

Ultimately we have so few great players in our history and in a rare instance we have a drafted one yet we want to bash him.  LT was literally a bad human being, as bad as you can be and is beloved b/c of his greatness.  Revis isn't LT but he's the closest we have.

that's fair.

I seem to remember Woodson beating him out for DPOY.

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13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Think about it: 

If your best player can't be a playmaker, then is he your best player? 

Is the absence of making an impact play an impact? 

If the QB was forced to throw to the other side of the field and had success, was there even a point?

SAR I

This is an old argument, but a really good one, when we were debating whether revis should be traded or not.  Taking away 1 WR when you can successfully run 4 WR sets and have big TEs with great hands is a luxury that is not nearly as beneficial as it seems.

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good analysis, I still don't see it.

Darelle Revis is the greatest player to have no impact in NFL history.  Sort of like having the greatest long snapper in NFL history.  It's great, better than having someone lousy, but in the end it doesn't translate much to W's and L's.

SAR I

Right.  Changing how a team plays offense is being an impact player.  In that 2010 playoff game against the Bengals, Carson Palmer realized he was ****ed when he couldn't throw the ball to Chad Johnson.  Holding the Colts to 16 points in Lucas Oil Stadium of all places was mostly because of Revis.  Peyton Manning wouldn't even look at Reggie Wayne.  

The guy was voted the best defensive player in the NFL in 2012 by fellow players.  Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez was busy running into Brandon Moore's ass.

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This is an old argument, but a really good one, when we were debating whether revis should be traded or not.  Taking away 1 WR when you can successfully run 4 WR sets and have big TEs with great hands is a luxury that is not nearly as beneficial as it seems.

in the end its better to spread the money around the secondary 

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3 minutes ago, section314 said:

I seem to remember Woodson beating him out for DPOY.

he did but we all know he didn't deserve it.  He got b/c he scored a few TDs and impressed on the highlights while Revis was having the best season EVER for a corner shutting down Moss, Wayne, Andre Johnson, Colston, Steve Smith, TO, Roddy White, Chad Johnson, ...

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

With your argumentation, you would meet your match arguing with a door knob.

You are good at this.

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5 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Right.  Changing how a team plays offense is being an impact player.  In that 2010 playoff game against the Bengals, Carson Palmer realized he was ****ed when he couldn't throw the ball to Chad Johnson.  Holding the Colts to 16 points in Lucas Oil Stadium of all places was mostly because of Revis.  Peyton Manning wouldn't even look at Reggie Wayne.  

The guy was voted the best defensive player in the NFL in 2012 by fellow players.  Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez was busy running into Brandon Moore's ass.

20102 is when he got hurt in week 3 and mark had Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill and Clyde gates to throw to rather than running into a lineman's ass- he chose the better path.

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Just now, nyjunc said:

20102 is when he got hurt in week 3 and mark had Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill and Clyde gates to throw to rather than running into a lineman's ass- he chose the better path.

Okay.  But he was still voted the best defensive player in the NFL by other players in 2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Top_100_Players_of_2012).  Clearly, he was making an impact if players on other teams recognized him as the best defensive player in the NFL.  

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17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Apples and oranges. Marino was a great, great QB.  No less so because his teams weren't that good.  

How can keeping the QB from throwing to his best WR not be the point?  How can making the QB go to plan be be a bad thing.  How can making Brady throw to the other side, cutting half of his field down not be impactful.  Never mind if for all these years you look at how drastically different a QBs rating is throwing to Revis vs to others.  That's the definition of impact.  

You make it sound like they didn't throw to Revis' side of the field by dumb luck and he just benefitted from it.  

Sort of.

What I'm saying is that in New York, Darrelle Revis isn't in the Mount Rushmore of Jets.  There are tackles who don't miss an assignment or allow a single sack all year for years at a time.  They aren't beloved by their fans, no one wears their jerseys, they don't get much recognition.  In a very focal position in the NFL, Darrelle Revis needed to be (still needs to be) "talked up" for others to understand his supposed greatness. 

Most great players are self-evident by their play.  Making plays.  Creating turnovers.  Scoring.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Sort of.

What I'm saying is that in New York, Darrelle Revis isn't in the Mount Rushmore of Jets.  There are tackles who don't miss an assignment or allow a single sack all year for years at a time.  They aren't beloved by their fans, no one wears their jerseys, they don't get much recognition.  In a very focal position in the NFL, Darrelle Revis needed to be (still needs to be) "talked up" for others to understand his supposed greatness. 

Most great players are self-evident by their play.  Making plays.  Creating turnovers.  Scoring.

SAR I

Here's making something happen:

 

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6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

You are good at this.

When arguing with you, one does not need to be "good".  All one needs is a pulse, common sense and to recognize that one is arguing with a troll.  Nothing more.  

I've been reading your absurd posts for way too long.  You are a drain on common sense, intelligence and logic.  

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6 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Okay.  But he was still voted the best defensive player in the NFL by other players in 2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Top_100_Players_of_2012).  Clearly, he was making an impact if players on other teams recognized him as the best defensive player in the NFL.  

that was probably based on 2011 heading into 2012.  He was the best defensive player in the league for 3 years, we've never had anyone like that in our history.

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20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

how do you shut down the opponents best player week after week after week and not have any impact?

as far as wins and losses.  1987-2006 we had a total of 3 playoff wins while 2007-2011, 2015-16 we won 4.  20 seasons vs. 7 seasons.

That's where you're wrong and make my point:  Darrelle Revis didn't take away the opponents best player, he took away their best receiver

Plenty of teams we faced had quarterbacks as their best player or running backs as their best player, and Darrelle Revis didn't prevent them from having big days.  And when your #2 and #3 and TE are having field days against the Jets secondary, did it even matter that your #1 was blanketed?

I agree that Darrelle Revis was a strong component on some decent Jets teams, but if you could go back in time and trade him for Ray Lewis or Rod Woodson you wouldn't?

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Sort of.

What I'm saying is that in New York, Darrelle Revis isn't in the Mount Rushmore of Jets.  There are tackles who don't miss an assignment or allow a single sack all year for years at a time.  They aren't beloved by their fans, no one wears their jerseys, they don't get much recognition.  In a very focal position in the NFL, Darrelle Revis needed to be (still needs to be) "talked up" for others to understand his supposed greatness. 

Most great players are self-evident by their play.  Making plays.  Creating turnovers.  Scoring.

SAR I

we don't have the brightest football fans but stevie wonder could see the impact Revis had on a weekly basis.  it was a joy to watch this man play at his peak.

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