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Nick Mangold Released: MERGED


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4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Mangold was better than Harris last season. Harris could be replaced by an number of in house candidates. Wesley Johnson is not a suitable replacement, he's a downgrade. Mangold had nothing guaranteed in his contract either. No one is trading for Harris. He should be gone too. Accountability. So again, why is Harris still a Jet? 

A "number of in house candidates" don't exist at ILB.  Actually, none exist.  Henderson's option was declined, Carter is a FA, and the rest are complete unknowns off the scrap heap.  You may have a personal preference of Mangold over Harris, and that's certainly understandable enough, but Mangold was more expensive with an alternative already available on the roster.  There's a very good chance Harris will eventually be gone, but there's no incentive to do it so early.  If anything, it would be a rather idiotic business decision considering how clearly it would make ILB as a significant need, which at least from a negotiating standpoint it is not currently one, even if the Jets would prefer to get younger at the position.

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On February 26, 2017 at 5:57 AM, C Mart said:

They cleared $29.2 million in cap space by parting ways with Mangold, Folk, Giacomini, Clady and Erin Henderson, whose option wasn't exercised. This puts them close to $20 million under the cap.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/67142/nick-mangold-is-gone-and-the-rebuilding-of-the-jets-is-on

Cut Harris and Gilchrist we should be close to $35 mil under

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5 hours ago, slats said:

That would be better, but it's not the case. He has $6M in salary guaranteed. That $2M is a bonus on top of his salary - should the Jets decide to pay it. 

OK. I only saw that he has $6m guaranteed. So effectively, it's a total guaranteed amount of $41m with the RB, but only ("only, lol") $39m is fully guaranteed. If they keep him past March 10 or whenever it is, his guaranteed amount effectively jumps to $41m.

Great contract. For Revis, that is.

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2 minutes ago, Thor99 said:

How much cap room would we have if we just cut everyone?

We'll end up with the same record anyway. 

We don't need to cut everyone, we have a number fo young players who may still have careers and whose costs are negligible.

We should, however, cut old, worn out under-performers and/or problem children ho make large amounts of money.

Like Revis, Skrine, Forte and Sheldon.

Please tell me you're not arguing to retain these four?

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1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

A "number of in house candidates" don't exist at ILB.  Actually, none exist.  Henderson's option was declined, Carter is a FA, and the rest are complete unknowns off the scrap heap.  You may have a personal preference of Mangold over Harris, and that's certainly understandable enough, but Mangold was more expensive with an alternative already available on the roster.  There's a very good chance Harris will eventually be gone, but there's no incentive to do it so early.  If anything, it would be a rather idiotic business decision considering how clearly it would make ILB as a significant need, which at least from a negotiating standpoint it is not currently one, even if the Jets would prefer to get younger at the position.

I agree he's not likely to do that with Harris (or not yet, anyhow). It's what he did at LT last year (don't cut the overpriced incumbent until after you're done negotiating for a UFA). Nothing wrong with that thinking, but it's false security: he's not the only one bidding on the replacement (again, like at LT in 2016). The price doesn't rise because the new players' agents see we have a hole at the position. The price rises because there are other teams bidding on these players.

Say the desired replacement is a UFA and it's Minter. His price to us won't be higher if we still have Harris or if we've already cut him. His price will be based on the Jets submitting the top offer Minter receives.

 

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Sad but it had to be done, however anyone thinking Wesley Johnson is  fine replacement is living a dream world.

He's a spot filler (for now) till he either gets materially better (doubtful) or is replaced via the draft.  He was "ok" last year, but only ok.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We don't need to cut everyone, we have a number fo young players who may still have careers and whose costs are negligible.

We should, however, cut old, worn out under-performers and/or problem children ho make large amounts of money.

Like Revis, Skrine, Forte and Sheldon.

Please tell me you're not arguing to retain these four?

The way the past 2 years were structured, for most of our signings, it's like they were planning on dumping old farts going into year 3. I'd like to think it was at least partially something they set up. More chess, than checkers.

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Great.

Where are we then if we also cut Revis, Skrine, Sheldon and Forte?

Zero saved for cutting Forte. His $ is fully guaranteed this year (as is Powell's). 

Absent the intervention of others (league office, law enforcement, and another team then signing him), cutting Revis saves $9m.

Cutting/trading Sheldon saves $8m.

Cutting Skrine saves his $6m salary (there would be $2.5m in dead cap next year, but that's a sunk cost whether he's kept or cut since the $ was already paid to him). Or they could just absorb that $2.5m this year if so desired, where he saves $3.5m this year but then there's no dead cap hit next year. Six in one, half dozen in the other.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Zero saved for cutting Forte. His $ is fully guaranteed this year (as is Powell's). 

So a pure "Addition via subtraction" on the field, if not on the ledger.  Sign me up.

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Absent the intervention of others (league office, law enforcement, and another team then signing him), cutting Revis saves $9m.

No brainer.

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cutting/trading Sheldon saves $8m.

No brainer.

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cutting Skrine saves his $6m salary (there would be $2.5m in dead cap next year, but that's a sunk cost whether he's kept or cut since the $ was already paid to him). Or they could just absorb that $2.5m this year if so desired, where he saves $3.5m this year but then there's no dead cap hit next year. Six in one, half dozen in the other.

No brainer.

Let the youth movement begin.

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9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree he's not likely to do that with Harris (or not yet, anyhow). It's what he did at LT last year (don't cut the overpriced incumbent until after you're done negotiating for a UFA). Nothing wrong with that thinking, but it's false security: he's not the only one bidding on the replacement (again, like at LT in 2016). The price doesn't rise because the new players' agents see we have a hole at the position. The price rises because there are other teams bidding on these players.

Say the desired replacement is a UFA and it's Minter. His price to us won't be higher if we still have Harris or if we've already cut him. His price will be based on the Jets submitting the top offer Minter receives.

 

Completely agree in regards to the FA market, with the sole exception if a player/agent is convinced they can bend the Jets over and get them to far overpay because they're desperate (see: Fitz, Revis).  Obviously the Jets could simply ignore the player/agent if they tried to do that, but history tells us that wouldn't go so well.  It could end up having more impact if the Jets look to play the trade market or how other teams might move around the Jets come draft time.  Neither are major game-changers of course, especially for a team with holes everywhere, but when you've got a total of 2 guys at a position you need 2 starters at, it's just another reason to wait and see.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He just turned 26 and was arguably at least as good last year as Winters was the year before that. 

Why are we comparing a Center to Winters?

He was a material fall off vs. Mangold.  We'll see if he continues to be, of if he improves.

But it's fine......as long as we keep cutting the old, expensive fat.  We retain overpaid underperforming bags like Revis, Skrine, Forte and Sheldon then wtf are we doing?  

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So a pure "Addition via subtraction" on the field, if not on the ledger.  Sign me up.

No brainer.

No brainer.

No brainer.

Let the youth movement begin.

Don't disagree with the rest, but Maccagnan's not cutting Forte. Bad enough he's got to answer for paying Revis $6m to be off the team. He's not doing that with Forte as well for another $4m (and a 2017 draft pick) worth of egg on his face.

I'm ok with waiting on cutting some - like Skrine in particular - as well. There's no additional benefit to cutting him early and I wouldn't want the error to be compounded by creating yet another DB hole, making him force his hand in the draft (or with another similarly ill-advised FA signing, like his big 4 were themselves).

Richardson should be dumped for the best offer he can get as early as he can get it. 

The other possibility, if they are such true believers in Deon Simon, is 31 yr old McLendon. He saves a bit less, at just over $3m. I tend to think they'll keep him, but even though he's not old-old at 31, he did break down as the season went on. He looked great in early September.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why are we comparing a Center to Winters?

He was a material fall off vs. Mangold.  We'll see if he continues to be, of if he improves.

But it's fine......as long as we keep cutting the old, expensive fat.  We retain overpaid underperforming bags like Revis, Skrine, Forte and Sheldon then wtf are we doing?  

While I understand we as Jets fans love to assume the worst, it's pretty laughable the fit being thrown by many about players who are being repeatedly identified as supposedly being kept when the league year hasn't even started yet.  There are plenty of guys who could still very easily be goners.  As far as Forte goes, despite your belief otherwise, there is no incentive whatsoever to get rid of him.  Even if it's simply a matter of letting Powell pass him on the depth chart, keeping Forte around is still to their benefit, with the only possible exception being if the Jets find themselves with 3 young/talented players on the team come the end of preseason.  Absolutely no reason to do it now out of spite.

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11 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Completely agree in regards to the FA market, with the sole exception if a player/agent is convinced they can bend the Jets over and get them to far overpay because they're desperate (see: Fitz, Revis).  Obviously the Jets could simply ignore the player/agent if they tried to do that, but history tells us that wouldn't go so well.  It could end up having more impact if the Jets look to play the trade market or how other teams might move around the Jets come draft time.  Neither are major game-changers of course, especially for a team with holes everywhere, but when you've got a total of 2 guys at a position you need 2 starters at, it's just another reason to wait and see.

The "we have no one else therefore the next player's pricetag goes up" IMO really only applies to players already on the team, like a RFA we'd be locking up a year early.

As a RFA that might be a backup or marginal starter - like Wesley Johnson now - whose long-term price can only go up now after cutting Mangold. It would have been cheaper to get him signed for longer than the RFA year if it was done before cutting Mangold (assuming they even want him for more than a 1 yr as a backup again). But that way, absent a decent draft investment in a center in April, WJ wouldn't have been more or less assured of starting in his final season before becoming a UFA in 2018. So again, if there's any desire to keep WJ long term, from a negotiating standpoint this was again handled backwards (like with Winters a year prior). 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The "we have no one else therefore the next player's pricetag goes up" IMO really only applies to players already on the team, like a RFA we'd be locking up a year early.

As a RFA that might be a backup or marginal starter - like Wesley Johnson now - whose long-term price can only go up now after cutting Mangold. It would have been cheaper to get him signed for longer than the RFA year if it was done before cutting Mangold (assuming they even want him for more than a 1 yr as a backup again). But that way, absent a decent draft investment in a center in April, WJ wouldn't have been more or less assured of starting in his final season before becoming a UFA in 2018. So again, if there's any desire to keep WJ long term, from a negotiating standpoint this was again handled backwards (like with Winters a year prior). 

That is a fair point, and I am curious to see what they do with Johnson.  If they can get him to sign an even remotely reasonable deal (i.e., low end starter money), you do it now, as worst case scenario it's still always good to have at least one insurance policy for your OL, and I can't imagine anything he gets now being too heavy on guarantees.  If they are really unsure about him, then I could see a lack of interest in even discussing it, but I completely agree that the worst thing they could do at this point is replicate the Winters situation if they believe him to have any potential for a future with this team.

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9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

That is a fair point, and I am curious to see what they do with Johnson.  If they can get him to sign an even remotely reasonable deal (i.e., low end starter money), you do it now, as worst case scenario it's still always good to have at least one insurance policy for your OL, and I can't imagine anything he gets now being too heavy on guarantees.  If they are really unsure about him, then I could see a lack of interest in even discussing it, but I completely agree that the worst thing they could do at this point is replicate the Winters situation if they believe him to have any potential for a future with this team.

They have seen enough of him by now - more than we see - to know whether or not they want to keep him (like Winters, heading into 2016). If they're going to keep him - and again, they may not want to - now, or sometime before the draft, would be the time to lock him up in the $3m or so range that veteran backup/spot-starters get. You can't keep waiting until they've shown they're even better to then lock up the player. The price doubles (if not more). Do it while you have the option of looking elsewhere with a draft coming up. They had such leverage with Winters for an extension at this time last year, it was mindless to let it get to the point it did. 

Like with Winters, I'm fine if they decide to move on from WJ altogether, and either sign another veteran or draft a replacement this year. I'm fine if they decide he's their guy (if they have reason to believe he'll be ok enough to keep as starter) and extend him at an amount that takes into account the leverage the team now possesses. I'm not ok with letting him play out the year again and then sign him to a new $7-8m contract extension at this time in 2018 because they painted themselves into another predictable corner.

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On 2/26/2017 at 10:48 AM, slats said:

I'd imagine that if they do want to release Revis, they're going to wait to see how his legal troubles play out first, and see if they can't recoup his guaranteed $6M. Remember when the Pats released a murderer too soon and then owed him millions of dollars? Good times! 

I think there is a window, march 1st-4th where they can release revis without paying any extra money.  I believe he is due a $2M roster bonus on the 5th?  His court appearance was pushed back so I dont think it will have a bearing.  I do think he gets released on the 1st of March.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Zero saved for cutting Forte. His $ is fully guaranteed this year (as is Powell's). 

Absent the intervention of others (league office, law enforcement, and another team then signing him), cutting Revis saves $9m.

Cutting/trading Sheldon saves $8m.

Cutting Skrine saves his $6m salary (there would be $2.5m in dead cap next year, but that's a sunk cost whether he's kept or cut since the $ was already paid to him). Or they could just absorb that $2.5m this year if so desired, where he saves $3.5m this year but then there's no dead cap hit next year. Six in one, half dozen in the other.

Only thing we save by cutting Forte is our dignity

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49 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

I think there is a window, march 1st-4th where they can release revis without paying any extra money.  I believe he is due a $2M roster bonus on the 5th?  His court appearance was pushed back so I dont think it will have a bearing.  I do think he gets released on the 1st of March.

Even if we cut Revis and save the money all that will happen is w sign another expensive corner who disappoints us because we have zero pass rush

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Jets to Release Center Nick Mangold

The Jets look to be in full rebuilding mode as they will be releasing arguably their best player of the past decade, Nick Manold. Mangold thanked the Jets organization and the fans of the team for all their support through the years which would seem to indicate that he was informed of the move today.  Mangold was fifth on my list of possible cuts along the interior offensive line and his release will save the Jets $9.075 million in cap space.

As a Jets fan the move is somewhat bittersweet. While most of us understand the shape that the Jets are in with their roster and the need to go younger and create cap room down the line, there has been no better Jet to cheer for than Mangold. You don’t often say that about an offensive lineman, but from day 1 Mangold has really been the heart of a Jets team that has seen many ups and downs. I think it really says something that when his release came down on Twitter not one person asked me about how much cap room the move creates or how much space the Jets have now to spend. It more of a sad reality that the Jets best player won’t be on the team next season.

 

Mangold was drafted in the first round in 2006 using a draft pick acquired for John Abraham. The drafting of Mangold and left tackle D’Brickashaw Ferguson were the official building blocks of what became the most successful period for the Jets since the late 90’s run. Mangold immediately got the starting center job and made it easy to forget Kevin Mawae, who was a potential Hall of Famer at the position. He was exceptional as a rookie and it did not take him long to start making Pro Bowls and nail down the honor of being considered one of the best at the position.

Mangold was one of those guys that everyone loves as a player. He played hard every week. If he got injured he found a way to play through it. He was accessible to fans as one of the early adopters of social media but never in a way that was a distraction to the team.  He was always willing to take responsibility postgame for a loss and I don’t recall there ever being a time when he ran from the press or was short with them whenever he was asked about something. Mangold spent half of the season on the sidelines this year (ironically similar to how Mawae’s Jets career ended), but even in an awful year seemed itching to get healthy and back in the games. Most veterans would not even think of doing that.

While I had hoped the Jets could have reached an agreement with Mangold to reduce his salary and keep him here for the rest of his career, there is little need for a moderately priced 33 year old center on a rebuilding team. It was nice to see that the Jets front office did learn from their mistakes of the way they treated Ferguson on his way out because that would have been met with a much more vocal reaction had they done the same here. Giving him his release before the combine should give him a good chance to catch on with a contending team in need of a center before free agency starts.  I would be surprised if he sat on the sidelines for too long.

I’d say that this release signals what we have talked about a lot on this site of the direction the Jets are going this year. Mangold was one of the people who many thought would not be released, but his release should seem to indicate that the futures of players like Marshall, Revis, Decker, Harris, and other veterans is likely not going to be on the Jets.

https://overthecap.com/jets-release-center-nick-mangold/

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2 hours ago, thadude said:

If we draft a running back at 6 we deserve to go 0-16 next year

Seeing as how a stud young RB often only gives you 3-4 good years, I think it would be a waste to draft Fournette without a franchise QB in place.  I'd rather draft o-line, where we have a chance at a 10 year starter, someone who might hang around past Brady's retirement

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Drafting Fournette scares me has great potential just not sure of his heart for the game. In 2015 he as was a beast pre injury. I admit I did not see many of his games in 2016 but the ones I did he appeared under whealming. Yes he was coming off the injury and it could take 2 years to fully come back. Just my opinion but he seemed to be mentally timed and not sure if he is capable of getting that aspect of his game turned back on. Could be totally off base on this but if I am not for a team with so many needs to have a #6 pick bust is a set back. Yes the draft is such a crap shoot to have this mental image of him and still draft him that high is throwing the door wide open for the inevitable Monday morning QB's.

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57 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Seeing as how a stud young RB often only gives you 3-4 good years, I think it would be a waste to draft Fournette without a franchise QB in place.  I'd rather draft o-line, where we have a chance at a 10 year starter, someone who might hang around past Brady's retirement

Even if Fournette is the next Adrian Peterson how many playoff wins does that guy have?

 

 

It's not 1995 guys

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