Suck for Sam in 17

[Pcola]

3 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Pssst, Hackenberg was also thought of in this same light a couple years back.

 

First, Hack's stats and game play during his freshman year were no where near what Darnold did last season.  Not even close.  The talk of Hack after his freshman year was that he could potentially develop into a franchise QB.  He didn't. 

Darnold would have been the #1 pick over Garrett Myles if he was eligible.  No matter who has the top pick in next year's draft won't trade the pick regardless of how many many #1 picks are offered.  Even teams like the Rams who just gave up the equivalent of 3#1s on Goff.

[Powpow]

On 3/4/2017 at 0:26 AM, jetscrazey said:

If Darnold really is that good next year and you have to sell the farm to get him, you sell the farm.  It's that simple.  Franchise QB is everything in this league.  You think the Giants miss those picks they gave up for Eli Manning?

No one will sell the farm for him unless they already have an option at QB in place like The Rams or Bears. Any other team that likely gets the #1 pick will not have a QB in place like The Browns who I believe are our biggest concern in the way of getting Darnold. It's hard to imagine anyone with a more watered down roster than us presently. 

[Powpow]

5 minutes ago, Pcola said:

First, Hack's stats and game play during his freshman year were no where near what Darnold did last season.  Not even close.  The talk of Hack after his freshman year was that he could potentially develop into a franchise QB.  He didn't. 

Darnold would have been the #1 pick over Garrett Myles if he was eligible.  No matter who has the top pick in next year's draft won't trade the pick regardless of how many many #1 picks are offered.  Even teams like the Rams who just gave up the equivalent of 3#1s on Goff.

Bears just sold out to get Trubisky. They would sell Darnold. Rams invested a ton in Goff. They ain't giving up on him. It's between Niners Browns and Jets as to who gets Darnold. 

[Pcola]

3 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Bears just sold out to get Trubisky. They would sell Darnold. Rams invested a ton in Goff. They ain't giving up on him. It's between Niners Browns and Jets as to who gets Darnold. 

If the Rams are bad enough to get the top pick next year, it will be obvious to everyone that Goff is not the answer.  And certainly not a solid enough bet to pass on a once in a generation QB talent who is a local star.

Heck, it wouldn't shock me if the NFL did everything they could to guarantee Darnold ends up with Tams or Chargers.

[Powpow]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:39 AM, Adoni Beast said:

We're gonna need the #1 pick to get Darnold or Rosen. If a team who doesnt really need a qb gets the #1 pick, the Browns have a boatload of picks to trade up for. 

 

But what team is going to have such a poor record to get the #1 pick? Either SF BRowns or Jets are the bottom dwellers. No one is going to be as bad as these 3 teams and neither will trade Darnold. Either we get #1 pick or we look elsewhere to Rosen or Allen.

[Powpow]

1 minute ago, Pcola said:

If the Rams are bad enough to get the top pick next year, it will be obvious to everyone that Goff is not the answer.  And certainly not a solid enough bet to pass on a once in a generation QB talent who is a local star.

Heck, it wouldn't shock me if the NFL did everything they could to guarantee Darnold ends up with Tams or Chargers.

Rams gave up a ton on Goff. They are not eating all those losses. And Goff is going to be great. He just needs time. Only way they take Darnold is to find a taker in Goff in a swap of picks but they won't reclaim their investment. Better for them to fleece however wants Darnold so in essence they get Goff for nothing!

[Ex-Rex]

On 2/28/2017 at 8:52 PM, nicg4360 said:

I don't get this suck for Sam blah blah blah...It's getting old. Every cut we made has not made us any worst.

By the way the FO is fighting for their jobs this year. If Sam is the be all and end all their will be several other teams sucking for Sam as well.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Too negative a topic for me. 

[Adoni Beast]

6 minutes ago, Powpow said:

But what team is going to have such a poor record to get the #1 pick? Either SF BRowns or Jets are the bottom dwellers. No one is going to be as bad as these 3 teams and neither will trade Darnold. Either we get #1 pick or we look elsewhere to Rosen or Allen.

I agree and hope for the same...but you never know with injuries how badly any team can be. 

[Il Mostro]

Only Bowles can make the Jets bad enough to be in the running for Sam.  Personnel-wise, the team is not #1 oversall bad. 

If they really wanted to suck in '17, they could have traded all the higher round picks for a boatload of picks in 2018.  That way there would no improvement this season plus plenty of ammo to move up for Sam and still have picks to reload at other positions.

 

[Powpow]

12 minutes ago, Pcola said:

If the Rams are bad enough to get the top pick next year, it will be obvious to everyone that Goff is not the answer.  And certainly not a solid enough bet to pass on a once in a generation QB talent who is a local star.

Heck, it wouldn't shock me if the NFL did everything they could to guarantee Darnold ends up with Tams or Chargers.

Hey New York plays second fiddle to no one! Joe Willie Namath!

[NoBowles]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

So much delusion in this concept, it's just sad.

Don't worry, when we get Sam and are perennial SB contenders, we will let you enjoy it with us, but we will remind you that you said we were delusional

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

So much delusion in this concept, it's just sad.

Not if you watched Darnold play last year

[nycdan]

The way things can change year to year in CFB, the name at the top could change.  We could find ourselves Hosin' for Rosen.  But regardless, hopefully enough of the top-3 guys will look great again this year to give us a clean shot at drafting one, even if it's not the first pick.  Because I think we are going to have some serious competition for that pick from teams every bit as inept as us.

[Pointdexter]

While I agree that Darnold is the real deal, the 2018 class as a whole is extremely overrated. 

I heard good posters stating that Watson and Trubisky were no better than 4th round draft picks in the '18 class. Lol

Trubisky and Watson are both better than anyone in the '18 class not named Darnold. Rosen is so overrated right now it's not funny. I am intrigued with the kid from Wyoming so we'll see there.

Still, all you guys pinning your hopes on '18 better pray we start Hack all season and go 1-15. Because if not, and we don't get Darnold, we will be adding another landmark moment in Jets history when we passed on a franchise QB, for a strong safety.

And one more tidbit for the masses, while I love Jamal Adams, those calling him a generational talent at safety should learn the name Derwin James. Yes, as good as Adams is, there's a better one coming out just next year.

 

[JETSfaninNE]

On 2/28/2017 at 8:32 PM, Thinker said:

sorry for my ignorance, but who is Sam..

 

On 2/28/2017 at 8:33 PM, Lupz27 said:

Darnold AKA next Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck college QB can't miss prospect, franchise set for 15 years.

He was a 2016 freshman who started 10 games...  He will be a sophmore this season and may not even declare for the draft and stay for his Senior year for all we know.  If he does declare it will be with only max 23 games experience and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if in 9 months he isn't even the consensus #1 overall QB let alone pick for next years draft.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Not if you watched Darnold play last year

Remind me, how many games did he play last year, or in his college career so far? (The answer is 10 starts btw, less than Trubisky).

He might be great, but equally it's possible he becomes DeShone Kizer by Draft day 2018.  We'll see.  

There is also history of USC QB's sucking in the Pros after a ton of hype in the draft.  Sanchez and Matt Leinart say hi.

In either case, the Jets aren't going 0-16, and won't be choosing #1 overall, so it's a moot point.

[D'Pez Poopsie]

It looks like it could be a strong QB class next year, but I do wish we would be able to put a rookie QB into an offense with a solid supporting cast. There could still be issues at every position around this rookie - which is concerning. If that's the investment - great - but we better spend the rest of the draft and free agency creating an offense around him.

[peebag]

18 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

While I agree that Darnold is the real deal, the 2018 class as a whole is extremely overrated. 

I heard good posters stating that Watson and Trubisky were no better than 4th round draft picks in the '18 class. Lol

Trubisky and Watson are both better than anyone in the '18 class not named Darnold. Rosen is so overrated right now it's not funny. I am intrigued with the kid from Wyoming so we'll see there.

Still, all you guys pinning your hopes on '18 better pray we start Hack all season and go 1-15. Because if not, and we don't get Darnold, we will be adding another landmark moment in Jets history when we passed on a franchise QB, for a strong safety.

And one more tidbit for the masses, while I love Jamal Adams, those calling him a generational talent at safety should learn the name Derwin James. Yes, as good as Adams is, there's a better one coming out just next year.

 

Josh Rosen is not over rated

[Pointdexter]

19 minutes ago, peebag said:

Josh Rosen is not over rated

Let's see...

Career completion % under 60%

Whopping 11-8 career record as starter

Only a 2:1 td vs int career ratio in QB friendly league

 

I'm pretty sure these metrics are the very definition of overrated, considering where he's projected in the draft. And these numbers aren't exactly coming from playing in the AFC North; the PAC 12 is an extremely QB friendly environment. Just look at the #'s from Luke Faulk of Wash St, or Darnold, or Davis Webb from Cal, or Jake Browning from UW. Every other QB is putting up video game #'s.

Until his production comes anywhere close to his potential, Rosen is the definition of overrated, and should be thought of in the EJ Manuel/Christian Hackenberg category.

[ChuckkieB]

It would be so very Jetsian for the Jets to go 1-15 and secure the #1 pick only to have next cant miss QB prospect decide to stay in school for another year.  This would be so profoundly devastating to the franchise that it's almost certain to happen.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, ChuckkieB said:

It would be so very Jetsian for the Jets to go 1-15 and secure the #1 pick only to have next cant miss QB prospect decide to stay in school for another year.  This would be so profoundly devastating to the franchise that it's almost certain to happen.

Considering our history of landing franchise QBs, nothing would surprise me. But you still need to do what you can to land a guy like Darnold. If he sucks, gets hurt or doesn't come out we can always draft a different QB or edge rusher or LT. 

It's not like this team has a chance to make the playoffs anyway. 

[jetrider]

3 hours ago, Pcola said:

If the Rams are bad enough to get the top pick next year, it will be obvious to everyone that Goff is not the answer.  And certainly not a solid enough bet to pass on a once in a generation QB talent who is a local star.

Heck, it wouldn't shock me if the NFL did everything they could to guarantee Darnold ends up with Tams or Chargers.

I see SF and Chargers in our way. Browns have Kizer, the new Kosar. Elway might pull something if Lynch doesn't progress..

[NYs Stepchild]

6 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

It would be so very Jetsian for the Jets to go 1-15 and secure the #1 pick only to have next cant miss QB prospect decide to stay in school for another year.  This would be so profoundly devastating to the franchise that it's almost certain to happen.

It's a good thing there should be more than 1 very good prospect next year.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, D'Pez Poopsie said:

It looks like it could be a strong QB class next year, but I do wish we would be able to put a rookie QB into an offense with a solid supporting cast. There could still be issues at every position around this rookie - which is concerning. If that's the investment - great - but we better spend the rest of the draft and free agency creating an offense around him.

Are you not aware of the many ways in which a safety tandem helps a young quarterback 

[Pcola]

3 hours ago, Il Mostro said:

Only Bowles can make the Jets bad enough to be in the running for Sam.  Personnel-wise, the team is not #1 oversall bad. 

If they really wanted to suck in '17, they could have traded all the higher round picks for a boatload of picks in 2018.  That way there would no improvement this season plus plenty of ammo to move up for Sam and still have picks to reload at other positions.

 

Well arguably, the four most critical positions in the NFL are QB, LT, Pass Rusher, and CB.

And we have McCown, Ijalana, Mauldin, and Claiborne/Skrine.

If that's not #1 pick material, I have no idea what is.

[Pcola]

29 minutes ago, jetrider said:

I see SF and Chargers in our way. Browns have Kizer, the new Kosar. Elway might pull something if Lynch doesn't progress..

The Chargers still have Rivers and then used this draft (smart or not) to support him.  Not the best move long term, but they will win enough games to be out of the running.

SF could be bad enough.  I just hope that Shanahan will coach up their QBs enough.  Plus they play the Rams twice.  

[Powpow]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

The way things can change year to year in CFB, the name at the top could change.  We could find ourselves Hosin' for Rosen.  But regardless, hopefully enough of the top-3 guys will look great again this year to give us a clean shot at drafting one, even if it's not the first pick.  Because I think we are going to have some serious competition for that pick from teams every bit as inept as us.

Impossible. There are no other teams as inept as us. 

[DMan77]

2 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

While I agree that Darnold is the real deal, the 2018 class as a whole is extremely overrated. 

I heard good posters stating that Watson and Trubisky were no better than 4th round draft picks in the '18 class. Lol

Trubisky and Watson are both better than anyone in the '18 class not named Darnold. Rosen is so overrated right now it's not funny. I am intrigued with the kid from Wyoming so we'll see there.

Still, all you guys pinning your hopes on '18 better pray we start Hack all season and go 1-15. Because if not, and we don't get Darnold, we will be adding another landmark moment in Jets history when we passed on a franchise QB, for a strong safety.

And one more tidbit for the masses, while I love Jamal Adams, those calling him a generational talent at safety should learn the name Derwin James. Yes, as good as Adams is, there's a better one coming out just next year.

 

I don't fully agree or disagree with your scouting reports on the 18 class at the moment, but I totally agree with your sentiment about pinning hopes on a draft class that's a year away.

Things change SO much between now and then. So much. I think we easily forget, but if people follow prospects at all you'll remember that 1-2 year look aheads are fairly fruitless. Players move up and down so much... If you went and looked at a draft preview in 2015 about the 2016 draft you would see them ranking plays way differently than the draft actually shook out... It's very rare you have a generational talent that you know is a sure fire #1 2 or 3 years in advance.

It's dangerous to get attached to any one prospect. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

9 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

I don't fully agree or disagree with your scouting reports on the 18 class at the moment, but I totally agree with your sentiment about pinning hopes on a draft class that's a year away.

Things change SO much between now and then. So much. I think we easily forget, but if people follow prospects at all you'll remember that 1-2 year look aheads are fairly fruitless. Players move up and down so much... If you went and looked at a draft preview in 2015 about the 2016 draft you would see them ranking plays way differently than the draft actually shook out... It's very rare you have a generational talent that you know is a sure fire #1 2 or 3 years in advance.

It's dangerous to get attached to any one prospect. 

No one is suggesting we lock in Darnold. All we're saying is that if we're going to be bad, which we will be whether we try to or not, we might as well be really bad and secure the top pick.

Whether Darnold is the man or a different QB emerges, no one really cares. But it's safe to assume it will be Darnold or maybe a different QB that emerges as an elite option ( not a trubisky type prospect). But if we end up with a franchise tackle or elite edge rusher that's fine too. 

[D'Pez Poopsie]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Are you not aware of the many ways in which a safety tandem helps a young quarterback 

I get it, but defense also has holes and this wasn't going to be fixed in an off-season. More so pointing out that if we do take a QB high next year, we better not put him behind this offensive line and give him these weapons. It's not necessarily too late - there will be, what, $60 million in free agency and 7 more draft picks.

Ideally, we'd put a rookie QB into an offense with a strong supporting cast like we did with Sanchez (right approach, just a wrong guy and we STILL almost made it to the Super Bowl twice). But I also understand as it stands right now, the Jets just could not justify passing on one of these QB's with a top 3 pick. Again, which is why there needs to be a commitment in free agency and then in nearly every pick after the first round to address the supporting cast.

The whole "competitive rebuild" was a house of cards. Was nice for a season, but then caved in last season. Should we have taken that approach? I don't know. But obviously, it's not a good look when you're in year 3 of a GM/coach regime and you're just now starting the rebuild in earnest. 

The optics would be better if we missed the playoffs three straight years, but were improving the roster each year. Instead, we had a solid, yet ultimately disappointing first year, followed by two dismal years. Is everyone wanting to give Bowles/Maccagnan 4-5 years? Doesn't sound like you do and you very well may be in the majority.

 

[Il Mostro]

4 hours ago, Pcola said:

Well arguably, the four most critical positions in the NFL are QB, LT, Pass Rusher, and CB.

And we have McCown, Ijalana, Mauldin, and Claiborne/Skrine.

If that's not #1 pick material, I have no idea what is.

Zeroing in on five players is awfully simplistic.  It's the sum of the parts and how they are used.  While they won't be contending for a playoff spot, between new additions and guys already on the roster there is no way the Jets are #1 in the 2018 draft.  Additions to the coaching staff on both sides of the ball is another factor that will keep this team from being bottom of the barrel.   The defense could be outstanding.

[bigalbarracuda]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

No one is suggesting we lock in Darnold. All we're saying is that if we're going to be bad, which we will be whether we try to or not, we might as well be really bad and secure the top pick.

Whether Darnold is the man or a different QB emerges, no one really cares. But it's safe to assume it will be Darnold or maybe a different QB that emerges as an elite option ( not a trubisky type prospect). But if we end up with a franchise tackle or elite edge rusher that's fine too. 

Agreed. I honestly think next year is going to be a QB/OL/Offensive Weapon draft... or at least that's what I see when I close my eyes at night.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

Zeroing in on five players is awfully simplistic.  It's the sum of the parts and how they are used.  While they won't be contending for a playoff spot, between new additions and guys already on the roster there is no way the Jets are #1 in the 2018 draft.  Additions to the coaching staff on both sides of the ball is another factor that will keep this team from being bottom of the barrel.  

The talent on the line is, at best, average. 

The WRs are up and comers, but no clear #1. 

The RBs are solid. 

On defense, our line is very good with a chance to be great if MO spends less time counting his money and spends more time getting in shape. 

The Lbers are below average. 

The CBs are below average and the safeties are rookies. 

Add that all up and mix in, possibly the worst QB unit in the NFL and we can easily be the worst team in the NFL. Even if we get better than expected production from a couple of those units (Anderson tuns into a stud/Mauldin wakes up/the safeties play like vets) we are still behind the 8 ball with either Mccown or Hack at the helm. Mccown is Mccown and Hack, even if he emerges, is still going to be a rookie QB. 

I hope we win the super bowl, but I think the more likely scenario is the 1st overall pick. We shall see..

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, bigalbarracuda said:

Agreed. I honestly think next year is going to be a QB/OL/Offensive Weapon draft... or at least that's what I see when I close my eyes at night.

Darnold/Rosen/Allen at QB. Saquon Barkley at RB, Kirk at WR and Mclinchey/Hyatt/Rankin at LT. 

We all know that the projections today are rarely the guys taken a year from now, but Darnold and Barkley are no brainers from what I've seen. 

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

While I agree that Darnold is the real deal, the 2018 class as a whole is extremely overrated. 

I heard good posters stating that Watson and Trubisky were no better than 4th round draft picks in the '18 class. Lol

Trubisky and Watson are both better than anyone in the '18 class not named Darnold. Rosen is so overrated right now it's not funny. I am intrigued with the kid from Wyoming so we'll see there.

Still, all you guys pinning your hopes on '18 better pray we start Hack all season and go 1-15. Because if not, and we don't get Darnold, we will be adding another landmark moment in Jets history when we passed on a franchise QB, for a strong safety.

And one more tidbit for the masses, while I love Jamal Adams, those calling him a generational talent at safety should learn the name Derwin James. Yes, as good as Adams is, there's a better one coming out just next year.

 

Watson may have some limited success because of OBrien but Watson is FAR from franchise QB material.