Report: Jets management doesn't expect to be good for a couple years

[LWC611]

5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Last year the Jets motto was something like faster stronger and greener what will it be this year. 

Laying the foundation for sustained success

[LWC611]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

I think the obvious answer is that it's not sustainable. You can't consistently be good that way -- you can buy a decent team for a few years but then you can't afford to keep them because of the salary cap, because they get old, because those types of players often have attitude issues, etc. Those types of teams never last and often fall apart in an ugly manner. 

The Jets have obviously experienced this first hand -- as recently as Macc's first year we went on a spending spree trading for guys like Marshall and signing Revis. It almost (should have) gotten us to the playoffs. And honestly, that was nice after years and years of failure under Rex where we were often a targeted laughing stock of the league. But as it always does it fell apart. 

I don't necessarily blame fans (particularly older fans or season ticket holders who have been going through this much longer than I have and have literally been paying for it) for wanting to win now, for thinking it's insane or unfair to intentionally lose. But if you take a step back and consider the long game I think this could work out great.

In my opinion there's only two ways to be consistently successful in the league. The first is to acquire an excellent QB. The second is to draft extremely well. Most teams that have had long runs of success (Pats, Steelers, Packers) have done both.

The best thing a team can do is completely suck the year before a great QB class. It worked out Great for the Giants, Chargers, and Steelers. They each had an bad year in 2003 right before the famed 2004 draft class.  Each landed their franchise QB for 15 years and never looked back.

That is the move in 2017. Next year's QB class is going to be great, and we want to have the pick of the litter. If that means watching Christian Hackenberg suck beyond belief during a 1-15 campaign sign me up. Don't let short sighted frustrations get in the way of what we need to do to take the mantle from the Pats as the perennial contender in this division once Brady retires.

The Dolphins had Marino. The Bills had Kelly. The Pats had Brady. It's our turn.

We had Namath before they had their franchise QBs.  So I would say It is our turn... again.

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, LWC611 said:

We had Namath before they had their franchise QBs.  So I would say It is our turn... again.

Namath retired ten years before I was born. Doesn't count.

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, LWC611 said:

Laying the foundation for sustained success

Actually I'm sticking with "there's always next year"

[LWC611]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

Namath retired ten years before I was born. Doesn't count.

That's a joke right?

[UntouchableCrew]

16 minutes ago, LWC611 said:

That's a joke right?

No. Why would that be a joke? Success I didn't experience is irrelevant to me.

[LWC611]

8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

No. Why would that be a joke? Success I didn't experience is irrelevant to me.

Well for some of us it counts...

[SAR I]

53 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Sadly this may be true I'm so not ready for this I wanted them to win a Super Bowl while I still could attend and enjoy it drinking a beer without a straw and not in a diaper.

My fear is that what Woody pioneered with massive FA investment up against Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger is being discarded as foolish when, in fact, it may be exactly the right strategy in the post-Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger world.  There are no great quarterbacks in the AFC anymore. 

Might we have gone to the Super Bowl if Elway, Manning, Roethlisberger, and Brady weren't in our way?  Those '98 and '09/'10 teams were very good except for the vast separation at quarterback.

SAR I

[SAR I]

48 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

I think the obvious answer is that it's not sustainable. You can't consistently be good that way -- you can buy a decent team for a few years but then you can't afford to keep them because of the salary cap, because they get old, because those types of players often have attitude issues, etc. Those types of teams never last and often fall apart in an ugly manner. 

 

Ah, but it was.

Look at the Jets from 1998 - 2011 and we had the best consistent run of competitive football in our history.  With a healthy quarterback, we averaged 9.5 wins a year.  If Pennington (3) and Testaverde (1) had remained healthy, we'd have made the playoffs no less than 3 more times.

We did sustain a ride on the backs of proven free agents for the better part of 14 years.  Culture change with head coaches going in and out, sometimes a vet like Favre or Testaverde at the helm, sometimes a raw rookie like Pennington or Sanchez.  Point is, we had success doing it the "wrong" way and Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger are the last of the great ones in the AFC. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

51 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The Dolphins had Marino. The Bills had Kelly. The Pats had Brady. It's our turn.

But that's where you're wrong.

The Jets had Namath.

Each of the teams in the AFC East had their Hall Of Famer.  Ours just came first.

SAR I

[JiF]

“No, we’re always trying to win,” Bowles said Thursday, before the Marshall news, when asked if the Jets were rebuilding. “Whether we kept them or we let them go, we’re always trying to win. We don’t do anything in the mindset [of rebuilding]. You rebuild as far as people and names, but you don’t rebuild in terms of trying to win or not win. We’re trying to win all the time.”

 

http://nypost.com/2017/03/02/todd-bowles-insists-jets-arent-rebuilding-while-they-do-just-that/

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

It's all about our reaction, it's all about the fans.

Mets fans kept hearing how they were going to have an epic 5 man rotation, they could see these players develop with their own eyes in the minors, they had hope for a brighter future and it was a promise that they could believe.  Mets took baby steps, then broke through.  Promise kept.  Patience rewarded.

NFL, different story.  It's a quarterback's game, and there are no minor leagues.  People have told me for two years that Quincy Enunwa is going to be the next Michael Irvin, but there's no proof of that, there's no hope for that without a decent quarterback. He looks quite average, looked awful under Petty.  If the fans revolt, the Jets will take action.  I give this "total rebuild" two years at most, then we're back at Steinbrennering again.

SAR I

They won't even get the two years, imo.

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, JiF said:

“No, we’re always trying to win,” Bowles said Thursday, before the Marshall news, when asked if the Jets were rebuilding. “Whether we kept them or we let them go, we’re always trying to win. We don’t do anything in the mindset [of rebuilding]. You rebuild as far as people and names, but you don’t rebuild in terms of trying to win or not win. We’re trying to win all the time.”

 

http://nypost.com/2017/03/02/todd-bowles-insists-jets-arent-rebuilding-while-they-do-just-that/

 

Just wanna pinch his lil' cheeks.

[jack48]

10 hours ago, tfine said:

I guess Yankee fans will stop going to the games then as well.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

you are actually comparing Yankee and Jet history?  Take a pill

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Steinbrenner won.

He won, then destroyed it, and had to get kicked out of baseball for it to be rebuilt.

[thadude]

Still a few years away because Woody hasn't sold the team yet

[tfine]

you are actually comparing Yankee and Jet history?  Take a pill

I am not. Your missing the point. the Yankees were horrible in the 80's and early 90's. When Stick Michael was the GM he scouted a whole bunch of talent which led to the Yankee dynasty in the late 90s. This is not about history. To say we can't rebuild because we haven't won a super bowl in 50 years is ludicrous. It's the other way around. We need to rebuild because all attempts to bring a championship here have failed and in order to achieve sustained success we need to build through the draft and keep the talent level up. Having sh*tty drafts and signing high priced free agents only brings you back to square one in a couple years.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[pdxgreen]

What else have we been, give or take a few decent years?

[yvj]

So we are supposed to spend Brady's remaining years giving him two games of rest?

I always had the nagging feeling we would never dethrone Bill and Brady in their prime in the AFC East, but looks like we literally will have to wait until they bow out of the game before we can compete on any consistent level with the Patriots.

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

They won't even get the two years, imo.

Agree, as usual.

We'll pick up a few free agents, we'll hear positive words about whoever our quarterback is, Mo will say the right things, the summer hype will start, people will get their expactations up.  And then we'll go 2-14.  And then the Todd Must Go stuff will start.  And then the new head coach comes in.  And we go free agent city again.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, tfine said:

I am not. Your missing the point. the Yankees were horrible in the 80's and early 90's. When Stick Michael was the GM he scouted a whole bunch of talent which led to the Yankee dynasty in the late 90s. This is not about history. To say we can't rebuild because we haven't won a super bowl in 50 years is ludicrous. It's the other way around. We need to rebuild because all attempts to bring a championship here have failed and in order to achieve sustained success we need to build through the draft and keep the talent level up. Having sh*tty drafts and signing high priced free agents only brings you back to square one in a couple years.
 

"Sustained success"  is a myth unless you hit the lottery at quarterback and get Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Elway by dumb luck.  Realize that only 5 AFC franchises have won the Super Bowl since 1984.  Think about that.  33 years, only 5 AFC cities saw a parade.  You don't need to commit to a rebuild to hit the unicorn quarterback.  It just happens.

And there are no epic quarterbacks like that anymore, and there aren't great head coaches anymore.  They're all going to be gone in a year or two.  It's actually about to get easier to win a Super Bowl than ever before.  Patch together a team, bring in some flashy free agents, you make the playoffs.  Once in, get hot, see if you can go all the way.  Look at the Giants.  In a finger-snap they rebuilt their defense.  Took two weeks and some cash, done.  Off to the playoffs.  Look at the Jets from '96 doormats to '98 dominance.  Look at the '09 and '10 Jets built to sell personal seat licenses.

Dump the oldsters this year, go 2-14, get Bowles fired, and then spend money like a drunken Steinbrenner next March.  Tag this post, I want credit next year when it happens.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

What else have we been, give or take a few decent years?

Over the 17 seasons Woody has owned the Jets we have 9 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 6 playoff appearances which is not only the best stretch in team history, but it's right up there with almost every team in the NFL that has had a legitimate franchise quarterback let alone those that don't.  Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games.

If you look at the teams that tried to build the "right" way, about 17 of them haven't sniffed the postseason or even a winning season since Woody Johnson bought the Jets.

And if you look at the teams that had the bonafide franchise quarterback, even they haven't performed consistently, take a look at the playoff appearances by Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, even Joe Flacco and Drew Brees haven't done anything since their one run.  Only 5 teams in the AFC have won Super Bowl's since 1986.  30 years, only 5 AFC franchises have had parades and t-shirts.

Point is, I'm convinced there is no "right" way to rebuild a team and what Woody and Tannenbaum attempted by eschewing the draft and loading up on more proven NFL free agents than any other team wasn't actually a bad strategy.  You can't argue with the success we had compared to other NFL teams back then and how bad we've been since Idzik decided we should stop doing it.

SAR I

[tfine]

"Sustained success"  is a myth unless you hit the lottery at quarterback and get Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Elway by dumb luck.  Realize that only 5 AFC franchises have won the Super Bowl since 1984.  Think about that.  33 years, only 5 AFC cities saw a parade.  You don't need to commit to a rebuild to hit the unicorn quarterback.  It just happens.
And there are no epic quarterbacks like that anymore, and there aren't great head coaches anymore.  They're all going to be gone in a year or two.  It's actually about to get easier to win a Super Bowl than ever before.  Patch together a team, bring in some flashy free agents, you make the playoffs.  Once in, get hot, see if you can go all the way.  Look at the Giants.  In a finger-snap they rebuilt their defense.  Took two weeks and some cash, done.  Off to the playoffs.  Look at the Jets from '96 doormats to '98 dominance.  Look at the '09 and '10 Jets built to sell personal seat licenses.
Dump the oldsters this year, go 2-14, get Bowles fired, and then spend money like a drunken Steinbrenner next March.  Tag this post, I want credit next year when it happens.
SAR I

Yea look at the Giants as much as this town gives manning sh*t. The guy won two super bowls he's a legit QB. Giants gave up the farm to get him and it paid off. I disagree on your point. Look at the super bowl team that faced off the past 4 years...all had a QB. Either you fall into one or you trade up to get one. Look at the raiders they sucked for the longest time found Carr and became legit.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[tfine]

"Sustained success"  is a myth unless you hit the lottery at quarterback and get Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Elway by dumb luck.  Realize that only 5 AFC franchises have won the Super Bowl since 1984.  Think about that.  33 years, only 5 AFC cities saw a parade.  You don't need to commit to a rebuild to hit the unicorn quarterback.  It just happens.
And there are no epic quarterbacks like that anymore, and there aren't great head coaches anymore.  They're all going to be gone in a year or two.  It's actually about to get easier to win a Super Bowl than ever before.  Patch together a team, bring in some flashy free agents, you make the playoffs.  Once in, get hot, see if you can go all the way.  Look at the Giants.  In a finger-snap they rebuilt their defense.  Took two weeks and some cash, done.  Off to the playoffs.  Look at the Jets from '96 doormats to '98 dominance.  Look at the '09 and '10 Jets built to sell personal seat licenses.
Dump the oldsters this year, go 2-14, get Bowles fired, and then spend money like a drunken Steinbrenner next March.  Tag this post, I want credit next year when it happens.
SAR I

Yea look at the Giants as much as this town gives manning sh*t. The guy won two super bowls he's a legit QB. Giants gave up the farm to get him and it paid off. I disagree on your point. Look at the super bowl team that faced off the past 4 years...all had a QB. Either you fall into one or you trade up to get one. Look at the raiders they sucked for the longest time found Carr and became legit.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jack48]

10 hours ago, tfine said:

 

I am not. Your missing the point. the Yankees were horrible in the 80's and early 90's. When Stick Michael was the GM he scouted a whole bunch of talent which led to the Yankee dynasty in the late 90s. This is not about history. To say we can't rebuild because we haven't won a super bowl in 50 years is ludicrous. It's the other way around. We need to rebuild because all attempts to bring a championship here have failed and in order to achieve sustained success we need to build through the draft and keep the talent level up. Having sh*tty drafts and signing high priced free agents only brings you back to square one in a couple years.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Rebuilding is fine. I am only proposing that disgusted fans not fund Woody while he does it Lt him prove his worth before money is spent on the product.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

What else have we been, give or take a few decent years?

What every has been without a QB.  

It's at least two years as we still have to find and develop a QB.

[Snell41]

Honestly not sure what the problem is. This is going to be the first exciting season in years. No we won't be a very good team, but we will be able to see young guys developing and progressing across the entire team. Literally almost every position is a competition amongst young guys.

 

I mean really, would you rather we go another season with a QB like Fitz and ragtag FA's again?

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[joewilly12]

20 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Honestly not sure what the problem is. This is going to be the first exciting season in years. No we won't be a very good team, but we will be able to see young guys developing and progressing across the entire team. Literally almost every position is a competition amongst young guys.

 

I mean really, would you rather we go another season with a QB like Fitz and ragtag FA's again?

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

No but I really dont want to watch sandlot football,CFL or Arena league like games on Sunday afternoons either. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On March 2, 2017 at 9:24 PM, T0mShane said:

I imagine they didn't include this type of language with their PSL invoices.

Personal Suck License. Then again, if they suck enough in 2017, they can sell Personal Sam Licenses in 2018. 

[rangerous]

18 hours ago, SAR I said:

Over the 17 seasons Woody has owned the Jets we have 9 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 6 playoff appearances which is not only the best stretch in team history, but it's right up there with almost every team in the NFL that has had a legitimate franchise quarterback let alone those that don't.  Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games.

If you look at the teams that tried to build the "right" way, about 17 of them haven't sniffed the postseason or even a winning season since Woody Johnson bought the Jets.

And if you look at the teams that had the bonafide franchise quarterback, even they haven't performed consistently, take a look at the playoff appearances by Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, even Joe Flacco and Drew Brees haven't done anything since their one run.  Only 5 teams in the AFC have won Super Bowl's since 1986.  30 years, only 5 AFC franchises have had parades and t-shirts.

Point is, I'm convinced there is no "right" way to rebuild a team and what Woody and Tannenbaum attempted by eschewing the draft and loading up on more proven NFL free agents than any other team wasn't actually a bad strategy.  You can't argue with the success we had compared to other NFL teams back then and how bad we've been since Idzik decided we should stop doing it.

SAR I

true enough about no right way to build a team.  we can't look into a crystal ball and what kind of success the bellichicken would have had without brady.  maybe the same or maybe even greater but one thing is for sure and that is bellichicken got a whole lot of leeway once they won that first sb with brady.  so the question is does the current jets management need the same leeway or at least more than the fans can tolerate? look at how long guys like harrison and dumgy were coaches without a real level of success. and there aren't that many that stick around past 3 seasons.  at this point we just have to see what this season brings.  hopefully the jets will get a qb who can be competent for more than 3 seasons and who wants to be the jets qb.

[BobbyBotsods]

The only thing shocking is my season invoice

[joewilly12]

I fully expect my beer consumption to increase the more the Jets suck.

[bassmaster2]

I read the jets are tanking next season to take the USC QB

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

I fully expect my beer consumption to increase the more the Jets suck.

You shouldn't drink too much alcohol, it's not good for you

[BRONX DUDE]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:39 AM, kevinc855 said:

We wont even get close to Darnold, we will win at least 6 games this year against our schedule

We have almost as tough a schedule as last year with Us playing the 2 SUPERBOWL contestants

0-16  OR BUST