Bucs offered deal to make Mike Glennon highest-paid backup

[Skeptable]

2 hours ago, PepPep said:

@Villain The Foe is on it. 

Believe what you want to believe, you are entitled to your opinion. But I highly doubt Macc thinks Hack is a bust or was a 'catastrophic mistake'. Quite frankly, it's laughable to assume that when the kid has all the tools and a lot of the intangibles to be a franchise QB and has yet to take any meaningful NFL snaps going into only his 2nd season as a Pro. I.E. Give the kid a chance before you dump all over him.

THAT is why the Jets will not sign Glennon, and instead go with a cheaper, veteran FA QB that can bring stability as a backup, mentor Hack and at the same time give Hack a fair shot to win out the starting gig.   

Finally, voices of reason within this sh*tstorm of Hack bashing.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

If Mac signs Glennon, it just means he's admitting the catastrophic mistake of drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round last year.  I'm not sure he's willing to do that just yet.  I Don't think the Jets will sign Glennon, but if they insist on signing a FA, QB, Glennon would be the one I want.

Not necessarily. It may just mean he's admitting he's not ready to bet his career on him starting yet. From a certain point of view, he may see Glennon as a 2-year bridge the way he saw Fitz as a 1-3 year bridge, with the difference being if Glennon pans out himself he could still ride him for several years due to his young age.

[Skeptable]

38 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If Mac signs a relatively young QB like Glennon to a big contract, you don't think that this is a signal that the organization doesn't think Hackenberg will ever be a viable NFL QB?  Why sign sign a QB that presumably is being paid big money to be a starter if you think you might have a legit QB already on the roster.  Makes no sense to me.  Now, if the Jets decide to sign Hoyer or another veteran QB to a shorter contract, then I can buy the notion that they think Hackenberg still has a chance to be a starter. 

For what its worth, I would rather the Jets don't sign any QB and let Petty and Hackenberg fight for the starting job and let the chips fall where they may this year.  In a worst case scenario, they both stink and the Jets can draft a QB in 2018.

 

Who said its a multi-year mega deal?? Who have no idea... you are just speculating... and who is to say that Hackenberg doesn't overtake young Glennon in year 3... 

[Skeptable]

30 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yeah morton knows the west coast offense but the jets are going to be run heavy and will play more ball control.  i wouldn't be surprised if they clone the patsie offense.  it's done that tall immobile guy brady pretty well for the past 15 seasons.

But that would still not fit Glennon... 

[Skeptable]

28 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not sure on that. I like what I've heard about Hack given that im a Jets fan and I tend to favor our own, but from what its worth the last time this guy was considered something good based on his potential upside was when he was the #1 recruit coming out of highschool. He didnt have a good collegiate career, regressing as the years went by, he was drafted in the 2nd round, though lets be honest, we all know that was the definition of "reach". He went through he entire offseason program yet the coaching staff was seriously afraid to put this guy into a preseason game. And finally, our QB roster consisted of Hack, Petty, Smith and Fitz. Outside of how we feel about any of those guys individually, I think we could all agree that removing Hackenberg from the equation we had arguably the worst QB groups in the league,...bottom 5 for sure. With that said, Hackenberg couldnt see the field in a season when our starter was benched 3 times and the two back ups behind him were also benched due to injury.

It gets to the point where potential upside has to show you something yet Hack couldnt even get on the field in that situation. I think its safe to say that until Hackenberg shows something tangible it will be hard for me to believe about his potential upside, because he hasnt flashed any that warranted that praise since high school. Also, im not trying to make light of the Penn St. situation, the dude showed loyalty to a university that went through a crazy scandal, lost a sh*t load of scholarships and the coach that he actually chose Penn St. to play under left. 

With that said though, it doesnt look good when your program struggles yet the moment you leave they suddenly look like the juggernaut program of the Big Ten conference.

To be fair, they got their scholarships back the year after he left and Franklin likes dual threat QBs which is NOT Hackenberg. 

[Skeptable]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You know one of the most important, if not the most important toolset for a QB is accuracy. 

A Jets coach said that Hackenberg couldnt hit the ocean if he was standing waste high in water at the beach. 

 

Sure, Hack may be a better athlete which imo is what the combine truly evaluates and therefore gives him the edge in regards to those abilities, but as a "football player", Glennon indeed has the upside potential at this point in time. 

You are quoting a disgruntled employee and taking him at his word... Come on now!

[Skeptable]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not necessarily. It may just mean he's admitting he's not ready to bet his career on him starting yet. From a certain point of view, he may see Glennon as a 2-year bridge the way he saw Fitz as a 1-3 year bridge, with the difference being if Glennon pans out himself he could still ride him for several years due to his young age.

Ding Ding Ding... Or an even crazier scenario... you have 2 starting QBs... Jesus guys... QBs are rare as we know... They can be trade chips as well... As you can see in the NFL... Grabbing a potential starting QB (Glennon) at his lowest value (hasn't been a starter in years) in the peak of his career is a good investment whether he turns out or doesn't.... this is extremely low risk and if they both turn out then where is the harm.

[Beerfish]

Hackenburg is awful and will never play a meaningful down for the New York Jets.  He's broken and inaccurate and his 'problems' are so big they are not fixable.  Wasted pick.  He hardly looked functional at all last pre season and was hidden away all year last year.  Worse yet the Jets had ZERO plan for his development, they did nothing to work on his mechanics and showed zero confidence in him as a player.  He will be coming into this years Off season workouts being the same guy he was last year coming in.

[Patriot Killa]

35 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not sure on that. I like what I've heard about Hack given that im a Jets fan and I tend to favor our own, but from what its worth the last time this guy was considered something good based on his potential upside was when he was the #1 recruit coming out of highschool. He didnt have a good collegiate career, regressing as the years went by, he was drafted in the 2nd round, though lets be honest, we all know that was the definition of "reach". He went through he entire offseason program yet the coaching staff was seriously afraid to put this guy into a preseason game. And finally, our QB roster consisted of Hack, Petty, Smith and Fitz. Outside of how we feel about any of those guys individually, I think we could all agree that removing Hackenberg from the equation we had arguably the worst QB groups in the league,...bottom 5 for sure. With that said, Hackenberg couldnt see the field in a season when our starter was benched 3 times and the two back ups behind him were also benched due to injury.

It gets to the point where potential upside has to show you something yet Hack couldnt even get on the field in that situation. I think its safe to say that until Hackenberg shows something tangible it will be hard for me to believe about his potential upside, because he hasnt flashed any that warranted that praise since high school. Also, im not trying to make light of the Penn St. situation, the dude showed loyalty to a university that went through a crazy scandal, lost a sh*t load of scholarships and the coach that he actually chose Penn St. to play under left. 

With that said though, it doesnt look good when your program struggles yet the moment you leave they suddenly look like the juggernaut program of the Big Ten conference.

Thing is..Hack's style didn't fit Franklin's offense. The spread makes any guy look great. Trace McSorely(current PSU QB) is way more of a fit. When Bill was there you seen Hack shine the same way Trace did this year. The advantage Trace had over Hack was.. he was brought into the scheme Franklin runs now. Hack had to make changes from footwork to play reads rather than feel comfortable with the same style he's ran his entire tenure. He still had the least % of interceptions of his career his last year there anyway though lol.

[SMC]

Glennon's agent had to laugh at that Bucs' offer.

Oh, here's $8 million per to be a backup or get $18 million per on the market to be a starter.

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Hackenburg is awful and will never play a meaningful down for the New York Jets.  He's broken and inaccurate and his 'problems' are so big they are not fixable.  Wasted pick.  He hardly looked functional at all last pre season and was hidden away all year last year.  Worse yet the Jets had ZERO plan for his development, they did nothing to work on his mechanics and showed zero confidence in him as a player.  He will be coming into this years Off season workouts being the same guy he was last year coming in.

Your analysis is based on what?? Because he didn't play the first year... come on.... get real

[Skeptable]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Thing is..Hack's style didn't fit Franklin's offense. The spread makes any guy look great. Trace McSorely(current PSU QB) is way more of a fit. When Bill was there you seen Hack shine the same way Trace did this year. The advantage Trace had over Hack was.. he was brought into the scheme Franklin runs now. Hack had to make changes from footwork to play reads rather than feel comfortable with the same style he's ran his entire tenure. He still had the least % of interceptions of his career his last year there anyway though lol.

Exactly..... Also they have scholarships again

[Skeptable]

Just now, SMC said:

Glennon's agent had to laugh at that Bucs' offer.

Oh, here's $8 million per to be a backup or get $18 million per on the market to be a starter.

True

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Hackenburg is awful and will never play a meaningful down for the New York Jets.  He's broken and inaccurate and his 'problems' are so big they are not fixable.  Wasted pick.  He hardly looked functional at all last pre season and was hidden away all year last year.  Worse yet the Jets had ZERO plan for his development, they did nothing to work on his mechanics and showed zero confidence in him as a player.  He will be coming into this years Off season workouts being the same guy he was last year coming in.

The problem I have with that is that Petty improved from offseason to offseason. So until I actually see him (Hackenberg) play in the preseason, I will hold judgement.

 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Exactly..... Also they have scholarships again

Yep. Scholarships seems to help lol. Guy had zero talent around him aside from A-Rob.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The problem I have with that is that Petty improved from offseason to offseason. So until I actually see him (Hackenberg) play in the preseason, I will hold judgement.

 

Smart Man

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The problem I have with that is that Petty improved from offseason to offseason. So until I actually see him (Hackenberg) play in the preseason, I will hold judgement.

 

He did..and there was a significant jump in his play as far as the eye test goes. I'm still holding out hope for both guys. They are young and now they get the reps Geno/Fitz had..see what happens and bitch about it later.

[Villain The Foe]

33 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You are quoting a disgruntled employee and taking him at his word... Come on now!

Im quoting a disgruntled employee because based on how the Jets pampered Hack this season. 

When the coaching staff is afraid to put a 2nd round pick into preseason games its fair to say that this disgruntled employee may have a point. 

[thadude]

24 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He did..and there was a significant jump in his play as far as the eye test goes. I'm still holding out hope for both guys. They are young and now they get the reps Geno/Fitz had..see what happens and bitch about it later.

Is Winston passing the eyetest?

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, thadude said:

Is Winston passing the eyetest?

..what?

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

They think he's a top quality career backup QB.

Up to you if you think thats "thinking badly" of him.

Hey you guys were saying all along the Bucs thought Glennon sucked that's why he was benched for McCown and they drafted Winston

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Ding Ding Ding... Or an even crazier scenario... you have 2 starting QBs... Jesus guys... QBs are rare as we know... They can be trade chips as well... As you can see in the NFL... Grabbing a potential starting QB (Glennon) at his lowest value (hasn't been a starter in years) in the peak of his career is a good investment whether he turns out or doesn't.... this is extremely low risk and if they both turn out then where is the harm.

I don't know that he's extremely low risk. I'd reserve judgment on that until we see what kind of deal he ultimately gets. Also if it's a big enough deal to keep away from all other QBs, that increases his risk further. I'm not super-incredible-high on him like @Villain The Foe level, but he's right now better than anyone we have (and yes he's also several times the cost of Hackenberg+Petty combined).

I look at it like this: a QB is 100% necessary, and a young QB will have a long career. Long enough (Glennon is still only 27) to not sweat what he does to the cap right away even if he flops because we probably aren't winning anyway. This is totally different from bringing back Fitz a year ago since even his optimistic shelf life (as an asset as a starter) was still very short. Ditto bringing in Vick in '14, Favre in '08, 

So if Glennon is the right guy, or if Watson is the right guy, there will be plenty of years to build a team around him without worrying about pissing away a 2-year window because we used up $30m of cap room we wish we had back, or used an extra top 10 pick we wish we had back. If one tries to fully build the team around him first, then a new QB could start to mature just as that ready-now team is on the downswing or the cap-cost fairy comes calling. 

For me? Fine to sign Glennon, so long as they don't use that as an excuse to stay away from a QB (Watson, or whomever) at #6. I would be thrilled to death if the big problem we have is we picked up a legit franchise QB but, woe is us, we also picked up another QB it turns out we didn't really need. We should be so lucky to have such a problem. Big freaking deal; trade (or at worst, cut) the other one and we'd still have a 5-8 year window at a minimum (if Glennon is the one who emerges) to build a winner behind a legit starting QB. This repetitious cycle of going with one flawed guy and building around him for 2 years, and then trying again 2-3 years later with a cap purge after that's failed, frankly sucks.

[Beerfish]

37 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Your analysis is based on what?? Because he didn't play the first year... come on.... get real

I gave you my analysis, the played AWFUL in ex games other than one decent drive.  The coaches all admit ed they were going to do nothing re his mechanics, we had 4 QBs all year so he got 4th team reps, the OC was already one foot out the door and had no time for a project, some sources have lambasted his development.  In the last meaningless game of the year when all logic would say, give the guy a series or two they refuse to play him.

I'll repeat what i have said before.  Anyone that likes Hack and thinks he has a future should be RIPPING the Jets for how they handled him last year.  Just sitting a guy out all year and working on nothing is not development.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

Thing is..Hack's style didn't fit Franklin's offense. The spread makes any guy look great. Trace McSorely(current PSU QB) is way more of a fit. When Bill was there you seen Hack shine the same way Trace did this year. The advantage Trace had over Hack was.. he was brought into the scheme Franklin runs now. Hack had to make changes from footwork to play reads rather than feel comfortable with the same style he's ran his entire tenure. He still had the least % of interceptions of his career his last year there anyway though lol.

The problem here is this. Bill O'Brien isnt the Jets head coach and we dont run his offense. If the excuse is a change in the scheme then what good is Hackenberg? He was in Franklin's system for 2 seasons. 

 

The reason why I say this is in respects to the comparison earlier by @Scott Dierking when it comes to Hacks toolset in comparison to Glennon. My rebuttle is that Glennon has simply proven to be a better "football player". 

Here's an example of dealing with adversity with coach changes. Glennon's first 2 seasons were under different OC's and head coaches. He was thrown into the mix as a 3rd round rookie and statistically showed some upside with his new OC. Year 2 Lovie comes in and brings in OC Jeff Tedford January 2014, but due to health issues Tedford last game calling the plays was week 3...OF THE PRESEASON. Tedford never fully installed his offense and never even called a regular season game, but instead QB coach Marcus Arroyo stepped in with the help of the rest of the offensive coaching staff to call the plays that season. Glennon had 2 different HC's and 3 different OC's including a season with a partially installed offensive scheme that had to be scrapped at the beginning of the season, an OC who never actually called a regular season snap, and a QB coach thrown in as a bandage. This is Glennon's first 2 years as a Pro.  All Mike Glennon did was outpeform Josh McCown when he got injured and showed that maybe replacing him with a "bridge" wasnt the brightest idea. Nevermind the fact that the Coach who believed in him (Greg Schiano) was fired and his new coach (Lovie Smith) was doing everything possible to replace Glennon before even meeting Glennon. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11983928/tampa-bay-buccaneers-release-offensive-coordinator-jeff-tedford

During that time do you know what I never heard? How Mike Glennon didnt fit into the Bucs offense. Glennon stepped on the field and produced better his 2nd season than he did his 1st in the face of that coaching situation. In the face of his coach who's showing him plain as day that he wants nothing to do with him. In the face of that same coach refusing to put him on the field during a week 17 game when all the starters were benched except McCown just to make sure that they secured the #1 spot for Jameis Winston. I have yet to see Glennon hit the field during any time with the Bucs and play poorly. He sat behind Jameis Winston all of 2015 without 1 snap that year, 2016 comes around Jameis gets injured against the soon-to-be NFC Champions and all Glennon does is go 10-11, 1 TD and a 2pt conversion in his 1 and only drive of the season. The guy has shown himself to be a gamer, no matter the situation. Meanwhile Hackenberg has shown enough growth to the point that the Jets are literally shopping for a QB this offseason. Says alot about Hackenberg not being able to push through if you ask me. 

Im not saying that you're not correct about Hackenberg's situation, all im saying is that Mike Glennon had a similar situation and didnt allow it to be an excuse for a lack of performance. 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, thadude said:

Define "# 2"

A #2 QB is defined as any QB who would be a #1 QB on our roster.

[TuscanyTile2]

I completely believe that Glennon will probably be at least a decent NFL QB.  It does seem like the Bucs like him (trying to make him the highest paid backup is encouraging).  However, my concern is his upside.  What if he's a middle of the road guy like Alex Smith.  Where does that get us?  Mediocre is the worst thing to be in the NFL.  I'd rather sh*t the bed this year and go all in for Darnold.  Many risks in that strategy obviously but we're a rebuilding team anyway so who cares if we royally stink next year.  I'd love to see Macc trade down and acquire ammo in next year's draft in case we need it to trade up for Darnold (if somehow a team that already has a QB ends up picking first overall).

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I completely believe that Glennon will probably be at least a decent NFL QB.  It does seem like the Bucs like him (trying to make him the highest paid backup is encouraging).  However, my concern is his upside.  What if he's a middle of the road guy like Alex Smith.  Where does that get us?  Mediocre is the worst thing to be in the NFL.  I'd rather sh*t the bed this year and go all in for Darnold.  Many risks in that strategy obviously but we're a rebuilding team anyway so who cares if we royally stink next year.  I'd love to see Macc trade down and acquire ammo in next year's draft in case we need it to trade up for Darnold (if somehow a team that already has a QB ends up picking first overall).

It gets you the playoffs every year with the possibility of a Superbowl run If things fall your way. The chiefs have been a playoff team every season except 1 since Smith took over in 2013. He got them their first playoff win since 1993. The last respectable qb the chiefs had was Trent green in 06. Smith has been a pro bowler twice since being their qb. When's the last time we had a two time probowl qb?

Going to the playoffs every year is better than not going to the playoffs ever year, which is what we're doing. 

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know that he's extremely low risk. I'd reserve judgment on that until we see what kind of deal he ultimately gets. Also if it's a big enough deal to keep away from all other QBs, that increases his risk further. I'm not super-incredible-high on him like @Villain The Foe level, but he's right now better than anyone we have (and yes he's also several times the cost of Hackenberg+Petty combined).

I look at it like this: a QB is 100% necessary, and a young QB will have a long career. Long enough (Glennon is still only 27) to not sweat what he does to the cap right away even if he flops because we probably aren't winning anyway. This is totally different from bringing back Fitz a year ago since even his optimistic shelf life (as an asset as a starter) was still very short. Ditto bringing in Vick in '14, Favre in '08, 

So if Glennon is the right guy, or if Watson is the right guy, there will be plenty of years to build a team around him without worrying about pissing away a 2-year window because we used up $30m of cap room we wish we had back, or used an extra top 10 pick we wish we had back. If one tries to fully build the team around him first, then a new QB could start to mature just as that ready-now team is on the downswing or the cap-cost fairy comes calling. 

For me? Fine to sign Glennon, so long as they don't use that as an excuse to stay away from a QB (Watson, or whomever) at #6. I would be thrilled to death if the big problem we have is we picked up a legit franchise QB but, woe is us, we also picked up another QB it turns out we didn't really need. We should be so lucky to have such a problem. Big freaking deal; trade (or at worst, cut) the other one and we'd still have a 5-8 year window at a minimum (if Glennon is the one who emerges) to build a winner behind a legit starting QB. This repetitious cycle of going with one flawed guy and building around him for 2 years, and then trying again 2-3 years later with a cap purge after that's failed, frankly sucks.

This is my position 100%

If Glennon isn't the guy so be it but the Jets better have a better plan than running Hoyer out there I can tell you that.   

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, thadude said:

Clearly the Bucs think badly of Glennon

and whats funny is their interception throwing first round draft pick is probably not as good as Glennon.

A guest on Mike and Mike said Glennon is looking for 15 mil per forget his name.

[Jet Life]

40 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

and whats funny is their interception throwing first round draft pick is probably not as good as Glennon.

A guest on Mike and Mike said Glennon is looking for 15 mil per forget his name.

Winston isn't as good as Glennon? That's funny

[Larz]

osweiner set the market at $18,000,000

this whole convo is mental masturbation

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, thadude said:

Hey you guys were saying all along the Bucs thought Glennon sucked that's why he was benched for McCown and they drafted Winston

 No, I was saying Tampa thought Glennon wasn't a starter, so they benched him for McCown and drafted Winston.

Given they want to sign him as a backup, seems they still feel that way.

But Glennon should have no fear, some bag of morons will give him 15 million a year chasing the likely next Scott Mitchell.  

I just hope it's not us.

Glennon for 7 mil?  Sure.  Glennon for 15 mil for multiple years....pass.

[RutgersJetFan]

5 hours ago, rangerous said:

this is actually a plus in favor of glennon.  he wants to start and has turned down stupid money (for a back up job) to take a chance and be a starter.  this means he has some fire.  maybe he will take more of a show me contract than go for an osweiler.

I agree, definitely says a lot about the guy that he's not willing to take half the money he's worth to not play football. Hard to find guys like that these days.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

It gets you the playoffs every year with the possibility of a Superbowl run If things fall your way. The chiefs have been a playoff team every season except 1 since Smith took over in 2013. He got them their first playoff win since 1993. The last respectable qb the chiefs had was Trent green in 06. Smith has been a pro bowler twice since being their qb. When's the last time we had a two time probowl qb?

Going to the playoffs every year is better than not going to the playoffs ever year, which is what we're doing. 

I hear ya.  And tbh, the odds of us getting Darnold are probably low.  Knowing the Jets, they'll win a meaningless game and blow their shot at him.   And the likelihood that we can trade for Darnold if we're not already at #1 is probably not that high (how many teams are passing up a franchise QB). 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

osweiner set the market at $18,000,000

this whole convo is mental masturbation

Osweiler set the market then promptly sh*t the bed. That was not a set market it was a stupid deal