Bucs offered deal to make Mike Glennon highest-paid backup

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

Normally, I'd agree with this statement if said player wasnt selected in the 2nd round by a team desperate for talent.  But because he was and because the Jets are, I think it matters a great deal how he turns out.  

If Big Mac had actually done a good job of acquiring some talent outside of Leonard Williams, then maybe you could excuse this mistake (I say mistake because the odds are he doesnt pan out).  But because he's failed to add any significant talent, this is was a huge **** up on his part and it hurts the Jets. 

Who cares NOW where he was draft... move past it... He was drafted... was he overdrafted, Sure I agree... doesn't mean he is gonna be a failure... He still would be at the same point in development as if he was drafted in the 4th or 5th round. People calling him a bust woould not say the same thing if he was drafted 2 or 3 rounds later... Did Mac make a mistake with this draft pick, sure... he reached.. ok... again... he is still on this team and still can develop into a NFL QB.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I agree, he was overdrafted like 90% of QBs in the draft... He was more overdrafted then he should have been, again I don't disagree... but he is on the team now... and I choose to move past where he was drafted, and look at the potential of how he can help this team in the future, If he can.

Where does that 90% stat come from, or is that made up in an effort to massage the facts?

He's on the team now, but outside of made up percentages, don't expect people to be OK with 2nd round picks not being able to contribute even when every player in front of him is either benched or goes down via injury.

I'm not interested in making those type of excuses when we could have had a more productive pick there. 

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I just proved to you fact versus opinion and yet you continue to disagree... why are you so thick headed ... learn definitions 

fact

fakt/

noun

 

1. a thing that is indisputably the case

 

The thought that Hack didn't see the field because he sucked is NOT INDISPUTABLE..... IN fact, I have disputed your claims numerous times... Learn Better...

You said that the coaches did not want him to play, which is not "indisputably the case" as sperm has pointed out before.

The actual fact is that he did not play and he did not play while the starter played poorly and was benched, the 2nd string got hurt in minutes, and the third string played poorly and got hurt.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Where does that 90% stat come from, or is that made up in an effort to massage the facts?

He's on the team now, but outside of made up percentages, don't expect people to be OK with 2nd round picks not being able to contribute even when every player in front of him is either benched or goes down via injury.

I'm not interested in making those type of excuses when we could have had a more productive pick there. 

What people? Who's expectation? The masses? Who is that exactly? All that matters is what the coaches think of him, regardless of where he was drafted and we will see this year where he stands... 

[Skeptable]

Just now, gEYno said:

You said that the coaches did not want him to play, which is not "indisputably the case" as sperm has pointed out before.

The actual fact is that he did not play and he did not play while the starter played poorly and was benched, the 2nd string got hurt in minutes, and the third string played poorly and got hurt.

Agreed, you used a fact. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, gEYno said:

You said that the coaches did not want him to play, which is not "indisputably the case" as sperm has pointed out before.

The actual fact is that he did not play and he did not play while the starter played poorly and was benched, the 2nd string got hurt in minutes, and the third string played poorly and got hurt.

And I used a fact that he didn't not play because the coaches said they did not want to play him... That is also a fact... Coach Bowles said that numerous times throughout the year... Could he be lying... Sure... But the fact is Coach Bowles said that he did not want to play him.

[ZachEY]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Agreed, you used a fact. 

Actually, I used about 10, feel free to revisit the list.  You just chose to focus on the one that you could come up with the best defense against.

The fact is, we haven't seen anything positive from Hackenberg, all that we have seen is negative.  If you want to play the wait and see game, that's fine, but that doesn't change reality thus far.

[Skeptable]

Just now, gEYno said:

Actually, I used about 10, feel free to revisit the list.  You just chose to focus on the one that you could come up with the best defense against.

The fact is, we haven't seen anything positive from Hackenberg, all that we have seen is negative.  If you want to play the wait and see game, that's fine, but that doesn't change reality thus far.

What negative have we seen?

[ZachEY]

Just now, Skeptable said:

And I used a fact that he didn't not play because the coaches said they did not want to play him... That is also a fact... Coach Bowles said that numerous times throughout the year... Could he be lying... Sure... But the fact is Coach Bowles said that he did not want to play him.

Couldn't Bowles have not wanted him to play because, you know, he sucked in practice, as was widely reported?  The "redshirt" stuff didn't happen until they actually got a chance to evaluate him, and it happened at a point where the expectation was for Ryan Fitzpatrick to at least come close to the prior season's performance.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

What people? Who's expectation? The masses? Who is that exactly? All that matters is what the coaches think of him, regardless of where he was drafted and we will see this year where he stands... 

People meaning you. Also, the 90% thing wasn't needed. 

Yeah, he's on the team but it means nothing until he begins to contribute like what his draft place would suggest. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Skeptable said:

What negative have we seen?

I literally did this on the last page, and then you made a novella of excuses for why reality wasn't actually reality.

[Skeptable]

Just now, gEYno said:

I literally did this on the last page, and then you made a novella of excuses for why reality wasn't actually reality.

You saw him do something negative?? I didn't see him play... Can that be a negative, sure... But he hasn't played... so he hasn't done anything yet because the coaching staff didn't play him... whether to protect him or because he was garbage, he hasn't played.... There has been NO negatives yet, None.

[ZachEY]

Just now, Skeptable said:

You saw him do something negative?? I didn't see him play... Can that be a negative, sure... But he hasn't played... so he hasn't done anything yet because the coaching staff didn't play him... whether to protect him or because he was garbage, he hasn't played.... There has been NO negatives yet, None.

So, his performance in college, training camp, and preseason are irrelevant.  Got it.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

People meaning you. Also, the 90% thing wasn't needed. 

Yeah, he's on the team but it means nothing until he begins to contribute like what his draft place would suggest. 

Again after the draft who cares where he was drafted. He is on the team. Only people that care where he was drafted is fans that look too far into things and choose to micromanage a bad football team.

[Skeptable]

Just now, gEYno said:

So, his performance in college, training camp, and preseason are irrelevant.  Got it.

Since on the Jets he has not done anything negative.

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Couldn't Bowles have not wanted him to play because, you know, he sucked in practice, as was widely reported?  The "redshirt" stuff didn't happen until they actually got a chance to evaluate him, and it happened at a point where the expectation was for Ryan Fitzpatrick to at least come close to the prior season's performance.

Macc had stated that ideally, it would be best for Hack to "Develop" before they threw into game action. This was in May.

[thadude]

9 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

What negative have we seen?

Apparently Mac and Bowles saw plenty because they are hiding this clown Hackentard

[thadude]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Macc had stated that ideally, it would be best for Hack to "Develop" before they threw into game action. This was in May.

Mac had buyer's remorse as soon as he picked a crappy Qb in the second round he knew he could have gotten in the 6th round

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Who cares NOW where he was draft... move past it... He was drafted... was he overdrafted, Sure I agree... doesn't mean he is gonna be a failure... He still would be at the same point in development as if he was drafted in the 4th or 5th round. People calling him a bust woould not say the same thing if he was drafted 2 or 3 rounds later... Did Mac make a mistake with this draft pick, sure... he reached.. ok... again... he is still on this team and still can develop into a NFL QB.

I cared THEN where he was drafted because it matters.  Just like I cared THEN, when they drafted Lee.  The 1st and 2nd round is where you find difference makers.  5-7th round is where you find "projects".   Some people had Hack undraftable.  Taking him with your 2nd round pick was lunacy.  

The Jets are a terrible Football team with limited talent and aging vets.  Using high draft picks on project players who arent even dressing is not good.  Can he still be a good QB? Maybe but the odds are heavily stacked against him and when you're getting no return whatsoever out of your last two 2nd round picks, you should be surprised why your team is terrible. 

[thadude]

5 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Again after the draft who cares where he was drafted. He is on the team. Only people that care where he was drafted is fans that look too far into things and choose to micromanage a bad football team.

It does matter where he was drafted

 

2nd round picks are supposed to be good players 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I just proved to you fact versus opinion and yet you continue to disagree... why are you so thick headed ... learn definitions 

fact

fakt/

noun

 

1. a thing that is indisputably the case

 

The thought that Hack didn't see the field because he sucked is NOT INDISPUTABLE..... IN fact, I have disputed your claims numerous times... Learn Better...

So Maccagnan and Bowles were both liars at separate times?

• In early May, when asked after the draft, Maccagnan said Hackenberg would get a chance to play, even though his obvious preference was to bring back Fitzpatrick.
• In late October, Bowles gave Hackenberg a chance to at least be active and dress for games (after Geno was injured) by holding a competition between him and Petty for the backup spot; in that role, he'd have been elevated to starter in the same way Petty was bumped up after Fitz's 2nd benching.

So your "facts" not indisputable things, since they are disputed by the comments & actions of both the GM and the HC.

I take for granted that, if Hackenberg was tearing it up - in minicamp, through July before re-signing Fitz, and right through that last PS game - that he wouldn't have been 4th string, and he surely would have seen the field at some point in a totally lost season.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, thadude said:

It does matter where he was drafted

 

2nd round picks are supposed to be good players 

 

the jets should try taking an offensive player in the first round and a defensive guy in the 2nd to reverse the trend of all the crappy defensive players in the first and offensive busts in the 2nd.

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Again after the draft who cares where he was drafted. He is on the team. Only people that care where he was drafted is fans that look too far into things and choose to micromanage a bad football team.

Because he was drafted there we DID not draft a possible starting player who could contribute so yeah you have to take that into account in value and discussion.  Micromanaging fans if the New York jets would in all likely hood built a better team over the past 4 or 5 years than what we have and I am being 100% serious.  The Idzik draft alone.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So Maccagnan and Bowles were both liars at separate times?

• In early May, when asked after the draft, Maccagnan said Hackenberg would get a chance to play, even though his obvious preference was to bring back Fitzpatrick.
• In late October, Bowles gave Hackenberg a chance to at least be active and dress for games (after Geno was injured) by holding a competition between him and Petty for the backup spot; in that role, he'd have been elevated to starter in the same way Petty was bumped up after Fitz's 2nd benching.

So your "facts" not indisputable things, since they are disputed by the comments & actions of both the GM and the HC.

I take for granted that, if Hackenberg was tearing it up - in minicamp, through July before re-signing Fitz, and right through that last PS game - that he wouldn't have been 4th string, and he surely would have seen the field at some point in a totally lost season.

Hack was looking terrible, not bad, terrible facing ps guys

 

"Redshirt" my ass

 

What a train wreck disaster this franchise is.  I hope Mac enjoys collecting unemployment next year

 

 

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

the jets should try taking an offensive player in the first round and a defensive guy in the 2nd to reverse the trend of all the crappy defensive players in the first and offensive busts in the 2nd.

We're the jets all of our second round picks suck.  Offense, defense, kickers(yeah that actually happened)

 

Such a lost franchise

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So Maccagnan and Bowles were both liars at separate times?

• In early May, when asked after the draft, Maccagnan said Hackenberg would get a chance to play, even though his obvious preference was to bring back Fitzpatrick.
• In late October, Bowles gave Hackenberg a chance to at least be active and dress for games (after Geno was injured) by holding a competition between him and Petty for the backup spot; in that role, he'd have been elevated to starter in the same way Petty was bumped up after Fitz's 2nd benching.

So your "facts" not indisputable things, since they are disputed by the comments & actions of both the GM and the HC.

I take for granted that, if Hackenberg was tearing it up - in minicamp, through July before re-signing Fitz, and right through that last PS game - that he wouldn't have been 4th string, and he surely would have seen the field at some point in a totally lost season.

the problem was that hack had virtually no reps in TC.  so even during the season when injuries to fitz and geno allowed hack to finally get some work, he was starting from scratch.  it wasn't like he was picking up where he left off.  most of his time with the jets he'd been tagging along and learning by watching.  he really had no shot of getting in a game this year.  

he may wind up sucking, but it's not b/c the jets redshirted him.  it was more or less a unanimous observation that hack needed at least one year regardless of where he went.  i don't fault the jets for keeping him out of games, especially with that porous offensive line that got 2 qbs injured.  he definitely was better off out of the way last year.

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Again after the draft who cares where he was drafted. He is on the team. Only people that care where he was drafted is fans that look too far into things and choose to micromanage a bad football team.

You can continue telling yourself that. He only made the roster BECAUSE he was a 2nd round pick. If he was a 6th rounder he would have been cut.

[August]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

*sigh*

You are comparing the Pats' initial offer with the Jets' final offer. To compare apples and apples:

The Pats' final offer to Revis was around $30m or $35m, depending on the source. The Jets' final offer to Revis was $39m. 

Beyond that I'm not doing Who's On First anymore.

No. 

I'm explaining to you what the Pats offer was or whatever they were willing to pay him. He opted out because he knew he could get more on the open market. The most the Pats could offer was 35 million and that was with incentives. He would get a fully guaranteed contract with the Jets for way more. 

[ZachEY]

11 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Since on the Jets he has not done anything negative.

So, he didn't suck in training camp, preseason, or practice?  Got it.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You can continue telling yourself that. He only made the roster BECAUSE he was a 2nd round pick. If he was a 6th rounder he would have been cut.

just like garrapolo made the patriots only because he was a 2nd round pick.  teams invest in qbs and are willing to develop them.  the jets finally have a gm who is willing to invest in this philosophy.  that doesn't mean hack pans out.  but it's better than how they handled sanchez and geno.

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Macc had stated that ideally, it would be best for Hack to "Develop" before they threw into game action. This was in May.

Anything about this season look "ideal."  The argument re: him not playing is not that he didn't start day one, it's that he didn't play when the season was over, when the starter sucked, when the back up got hurt, and when the 3rd string wasn't good and then got hurt.  The difference is not negligible.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Since on the Jets he has not done anything negative.

I think not being able to beat out the worst starting QB in the NFL is a negative...but I might be in the minority here. 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, gEYno said:

Anything about this season look "ideal."  The argument re: him not playing is not that he didn't start day one, it's that he didn't play when the season was over, when the starter sucked, when the back up got hurt, and when the 3rd string wasn't good and then got hurt.  The difference is not negligible.

it's not just that he didn't play in a game, he barely got any reps in training camp and practice.  i attended TC one day, and he had maybe 10 throws the entire practice.  it was all fitz/geno/petty.  he was way less prepared than other rookie qbs who at least were getting major reps in training camp and in-season practices.  they would not have been doing hack or the team a favor by throwing him in there and having him get killed behind that line with barely any practice time.  now if he sucks next training camp, that's another story.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem was that hack had virtually no reps in TC.  so even during the season when injuries to fitz and geno allowed hack to finally get some work, he was starting from scratch.  it wasn't like he was picking up where he left off.  most of his time with the jets he'd been tagging along and learning by watching.  he really had no shot of getting in a game this year.  

he may wind up sucking, but it's not b/c the jets redshirted him.  it was more or less a unanimous observation that hack needed at least one year regardless of where he went.  i don't fault the jets for keeping him out of games, especially with that porous offensive line that got 2 qbs injured.  he definitely was better off out of the way last year.

Nonsense. He had plenty of reps in TC because Fitz didn't get signed until almost August. Then once the season started, he got all of Petty's reps while Petty was inactive for most of the first 2 months. You make it sound like he was just standing around doing nothing while everyone else was practicing. 

There was no less pre-draft "observation" that Prescott needed some 2-3 years of clipboard holding. Same with Mariota. Many said Wentz needed a good year to stand on the sideline. Same with many others. Turns out our pick was benched behind 3 bad QBs because he looked worse than all 3 of them. 

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

just like garrapolo made the patriots only because he was a 2nd round pick.  teams invest in qbs and are willing to develop them.  the jets finally have a gm who is willing to invest in this philosophy.  that doesn't mean hack pans out.  but it's better than how they handled sanchez and geno.

That's not even comparable given both teams qb situations. I won't even entertain this