Jets' addition of Josh McCown bodes well for young quarterbacks

[joewilly12]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

BUt that brings back the question. If their jobs are in danger, why didn't they go after Cutler?

Cutler wanted more money than the Jets have to offer. 

McCown allows Macc's pick the opportunity to win the QB job. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So why not just sign Cutler? If Bowles' job is in danger, Macc's job is in danger.

Do you expect an actual answer to this? 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Maybe.  We'll see.  We'll get to read all the camp reports and watch the preseason games.  If either of those young guys shows they can play, and aren't started, then you're right.  But, if they both are awful, then, it's their own doing, not Bowles.

AMEN! And Bowles wont be able to hide it from us

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Cutler wanted more money than the Jets have to offer. 

McCown allows Macc's pick the opportunity to win the QB job. 

That's exactly the point.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Do you expect an actual answer to this? 

Yes, actually. If Macc was in trouble, he would brought Cutler in immediately

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Maybe.  We'll see.  We'll get to read all the camp reports and watch the preseason games.  If either of those young guys shows they can play, and aren't started, then you're right.  But, if they both are awful, then, it's their own doing, not Bowles.

Here's the problem and it's the same problem that has been going on for the last 2 years...at some point, you have to just give the kids a shot and let them prepare as a starter and fail as a starter because who gives a sh*t?  Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.  This was the case with Fitz and will be the case with McCown.  I assure you.  Todd Bowles will see a veteran who knows how to prepare, knows the playbooks, knows how to be a leader, knows how to gain the confidence of the locker room and he will start the vet.  Or he'll do what he always does and just starts the vet because he's the vet.

And here's my fear.  McCown is going to look like a 7 in camp.  Petty and Hack wont.  Maybe they're a 5.  Todd Bowles will choose the 7 because he's trying to win games.  When the smart thing to do and what is in the best interest of this franchise, is start the 5's because the 2 grades higher doesnt mean sh*t when that player a 37 year old turd that has no future with the Jets.  It's Fitz all over again.

If by some miracle, I'm wrong and Todd actually uses logic, I'll will say something nice about him but I really dont see this panning out any other way.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes, actually. If Macc was in trouble, he would brought Cutler in immediately

Yes.  Every GM's saving grace is Jay Cutler. 

holy sh*t man

[Big Blocker]

I know some or most of those applauding the McCown signing more or less assume it means that Petty and/or Hack will be ready to play and get a good shot to take over the starting Qb position.  I guess some of that thinking is that McCown will be a good mentor and help them develop.

Is there any actual track record to base that on?

For myself I can't see how this signing brings either Petty or Hack closer to being ready.  Here's the thinking:

We have no reason to believe as of now that Petty or Hack will be ready.  Sure there's camp and pre-season between now and Opening Day.  But to avoid McCown being the starter on Opening Day, one of them, even both if you prefer, will have to show they are ready and better on Opening Day.  If the thnking is that is likely, then why not have signed someone like Hoyer just to be the vet backup?

No, the logic is that McCown is the starter unless and until one of the young guys takes it away.  Says here that means it is likely McCown starts on Opening Day.

If he's the starter, he practices with first teamers, so again I am not sure how that helps Petty and Hack get more ready for his being here.

Brings us back to mentoring.  What's his track record?

Just reading posts here today, I can't see reason to buy into the optimism.

[joewilly12]

Other free agent QB's wanted a chance to start. Something tells me McCown was ok with the fact that he was signed to be a backup QB and the battle was between Hack,Petty and another rookie. 

End of discussion. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Here's the problem and it's the same problem that has been going on for the last 2 years...at some point, you have to just give the kids a shot and let them prepare as a starter and fail as a starter because who gives a sh*t?  Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.  This was the case with Fitz and will be the case with McCown.  I assure you.  Todd Bowles will see a veteran who knows how to prepare, knows the playbooks, knows how to be a leader, knows how to gain the confidence of the locker room and he will start the vet.  Or he'll do what he always does and just starts the vet because he's the vet.

And here's my fear.  McCown is going to look like a 7 in camp.  Petty and Hack wont.  Maybe they're a 5.  Todd Bowles will choose the 7 because he's trying to win games.  When the smart thing to do and what is in the best interest of this franchise, is start the 5's because the 2 grades higher doesnt mean sh*t when that player a 37 year old turd that has no future with the Jets.  It's Fitz all over again.

If by some miracle, I'm wrong and Todd actually uses logic, I'll will say something nice about him but I really dont see this panning out any other way.

 

 

COuple things:

1. Why do you think/assume McCown will look like a 7 in camp?

2. Dont you think that if Bowles learned not to name McCown the starter immediately upon signing, that he would also learn to judge the QBs fairly?

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I know some or most of those applauding the McCown signing more or less assume it means that Petty and/or Hack will be ready to play and get a good shot to take over the starting Qb position.  I guess some of that thinking is that McCown will be a good mentor and help them develop.

Is there any actual track record to base that on?

For myself I can't see how this signing brings either Petty or Hack closer to being ready.  Here's the thinking:

We have no reason to believe as of now that Petty or Hack will be ready. 

This is essentially what the whole debate comes down to. And Bowles wont be able to hide outcomes from us because we get reports and see preseason games.

So what geYno said is correct. 

If Petty and Hackenberg clearly show that they are better then McCown, and Bowles starts McCown, start the whips

[UnitedWhofans]

I just keep thinking back to Matt Flynn in Seattle getting unseated by Russell Wilson. Not that Petty or Hackenberg are Russell Wilson.

The point is that to say that McCown will play well in training camp is a bit jumping the gun

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The point is that to say that McCown will play well in training camp is a bit jumping the gun

He can play like hot garbage and still be better than Petty and Hackenberg.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

COuple things:

1. Why do you think/assume McCown will look like a 7 in camp?

2. Dont you think that if Bowles learned not to name McCown the starter immediately upon signing, that he would also learn to judge the QBs fairly?

1. McCown knows the play book and how to navigate locker rooms in the NFL.  And when you're desperate and you put a 4 next to two 1's, they look like a 7.  

2.  No.  See above and history with how he treats vets in his locker room. 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I just keep thinking back to Matt Flynn in Seattle getting unseated by Russell Wilson. Not that Petty or Hackenberg are Russell Wilson.

The point is that to say that McCown will play well in training camp is a bit jumping the gun

So then why do you keep thinking back to it? 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

So then why do you keep thinking back to it? 

Because it shows it can be done that way

[joewilly12]

Hackenberg switches to #14 and lights it up!!!!!!!

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

1. McCown knows the play book and how to navigate locker rooms in the NFL.  And when you put a 4 next to two 1's, they look like a 7.  

2.  No.  See above and history with how he treats vets in his locker room. 

 

Just now, dbatesman said:

He can play like hot garbage and still be better than Petty and Hackenberg.

Both of you are under the assumption that QBs can't improve from season to season. Why do you think that? 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Because it shows it can be done that way

 

[Larz]

Who changed ciminis name on the article?
Lol

[UnitedWhofans]

So basically what jif and Dbatesman are saying is that Petty is hot garbage who will never improve on last year and Hackenberg, after one year on the bench, will never improve.

Got it.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

 

Both of you are under the assumption that QBs can't improve from season to season. Why do you think that? 

Tell me about the time where a QB wasnt trusted to dress until absolutely necessary and then unseated a 15 year veteran in the NFL the next season? 

 

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Here's the problem and it's the same problem that has been going on for the last 2 years...at some point, you have to just give the kids a shot and let them prepare as a starter and fail as a starter because who gives a sh*t?  Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.  This was the case with Fitz and will be the case with McCown.  I assure you.  Todd Bowles will see a veteran who knows how to prepare, knows the playbooks, knows how to be a leader, knows how to gain the confidence of the locker room and he will start the vet.  Or he'll do what he always does and just starts the vet because he's the vet.

And here's my fear.  McCown is going to look like a 7 in camp.  Petty and Hack wont.  Maybe they're a 5.  Todd Bowles will choose the 7 because he's trying to win games.  When the smart thing to do and what is in the best interest of this franchise, is start the 5's because the 2 grades higher doesnt mean sh*t when that player a 37 year old turd that has no future with the Jets.  It's Fitz all over again.

If by some miracle, I'm wrong and Todd actually uses logic, I'll will say something nice about him but I really dont see this panning out any other way.

It really hasn't been the same problem for the last two years though.  It's been the problem for the 2nd half of last year.  We signed Fitz to win more games.  He did that.  While I may not agree with the strategy, overall, we won 10 games and had a shot at the playoffs.  Last year, we signed Fitz expecting a similar performance.  You and I may not have done the same, but once signed, it was his job after the previous year.

Then, it imploded.  Did we stick with Fitz too long?  Sure.  But, going into the season, he was the right choice (once signed, at least).  And, I'm not going to kill Bowles too much for sticking with him too long, only because I'm open to the possibility that both Hack and Petty suck out loud.  I'm open to this possibility that they coaches saw this in practice and don't need to see it in the games because it was just that bad.  There's a narrative that has nothing to do with them not being "not ready" and everything to do with them being "awful football players."  I don't mean to compliment Bowles, or even defend him, but I kind of subscribe to this narrative where both QBs are terrible and that's why Fitz hung around.

It is my hope that if McCown is a 7 and Petty/Hack is a 5, that Bowles will play the kids, because you can play a 5.  It is my fear (and belief) that McCown is a 5 and Petty/Hack are 2s.  At which point, I don't think you need to play 2s.  The difference though, between this and Fitz, is that we aren't adding talent around McCown.  He's going out there with what we've got (if he goes out there at all), and that's it.

[Big Blocker]

18 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Other free agent QB's wanted a chance to start. Something tells me McCown was ok with the fact that he was signed to be a backup QB and the battle was between Hack,Petty and another rookie. 

End of discussion. 

So there's going to be FOUR Qb's on the team again???

When was the last time there was a 3, let alone 4, way battle for Qb that ended well?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Tell me about the time where a QB wasnt trusted to dress until absolutely necessary and then unseated a 15 year veteran in the NFL the next season? 

 

"With God all things are possible"

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

So there's going to be FOUR Qb's on the team again???

When was the last time there was a 3, let alone 4, way battle for Qb that ended well?

If Macc is able to draft someone on the Jets board most definitely Petty is injured he could be a goner. 

[Big Blocker]

19 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is essentially what the whole debate comes down to. And Bowles wont be able to hide outcomes from us because we get reports and see preseason games.

So what geYno said is correct. 

If Petty and Hackenberg clearly show that they are better then McCown, and Bowles starts McCown, start the whips

Geez I am not concerned about Bowles here.  I am concerned there is STILL not a decent Qb on the roster.

Again I don't see how signing McCown makes either or both Petty and Hack more ready than before.

[Big Blocker]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

If Macc is able to draft someone on the Jets board most definitely Petty is injured he could be a goner. 

I thought you said you expected there to be a 3 way battle between Petty, Hack and a rookie.

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Both 1st round picks Hackenberg is a 2nd round pick reach big difference. 

Montana was a 3rd round pick , Brady a 6th. Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken in his draft class.

Haven't we learned anything at all about the draft , there are no sure things and the situation a player is drafted into plays a large role in whether or not he flourishes..

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Big Blocker said:

Geez I am not concerned about Bowles here.  I am concerned there is STILL not a decent Qb on the roster.

Again I don't see how signing McCown makes either or both Petty and Hack more ready than before.

I think the Raiders would have rather had a McCown start that playoff game over Connor Cook.

Its the ability to come in in a pinch.

[UnitedWhofans]

BTW, it might very well turn out that McCown beats Hackenberg and Petty. I'm just saying that it is foolish to assume it right now until we actually get evidence in. Because when you assume....

[Big Blocker]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think the Raiders would have rather had a McCown start that playoff game over Connor Cook.

Its the ability to come in in a pinch.

You're off topic.  You're talking about the Raiders as a team.

 

The question is how does the McCown signing bring either Petty or Hack any closer to being ready to take over?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Big Blocker said:

You're off topic.  You're talking about the Raiders as a team.

 

The question is how does the McCown signing bring either Petty or Hack any closer to being ready to take over?

I think it does because McCown is less of a block to them than a Jay Cutler would have been

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I thought you said you expected there to be a 3 way battle between Petty, Hack and a rookie.

If he's injured he cant be part of the camp battle. 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, gEYno said:

It really hasn't been the same problem for the last two years though.  It's been the problem for the 2nd half of last year.  We signed Fitz to win more games.  He did that.  While I may not agree with the strategy, overall, we won 10 games and had a shot at the playoffs.  Last year, we signed Fitz expecting a similar performance.  You and I may not have done the same, but once signed, it was his job after the previous year.

Then, it imploded.  Did we stick with Fitz too long?  Sure.  But, going into the season, he was the right choice (once signed, at least).  And, I'm not going to kill Bowles too much for sticking with him too long, only because I'm open to the possibility that both Hack and Petty suck out loud.  I'm open to this possibility that they coaches saw this in practice and don't need to see it in the games because it was just that bad.  There's a narrative that has nothing to do with them not being "not ready" and everything to do with them being "awful football players."  I don't mean to compliment Bowles, or even defend him, but I kind of subscribe to this narrative where both QBs are terrible and that's why Fitz hung around.

It is my hope that if McCown is a 7 and Petty/Hack is a 5, that Bowles will play the kids, because you can play a 5.  It is my fear (and belief) that McCown is a 5 and Petty/Hack are 2s.  At which point, I don't think you need to play 2s.  The difference though, between this and Fitz, is that we aren't adding talent around McCown.  He's going out there with what we've got (if he goes out there at all), and that's it.

Yeah, it really is.  I dont want to rehash the same old argument but I patently disagree with everything you just said.  Players like Fitz and McCown are a huge waste of everyone's time. When you have that much history with a player, it's rarely reversed and the ending is predictable.  There is a ton more value in seeing what young players have whether they're a 2 and you other option is a 5 vs. hoping to strike lightening in a bottle and win a few more games than expected.  History has shown this does not work  9 times out of 10.  And it leaves that team in a bad situation.  And here we are. 

I mean step back for a second, it's literally the same exact scenario the only difference is they didnt have to trade for the McCown and they didnt have a young QB that some fans will deny, was showing some signs of improvement on the roster.  Fitz' returns to familiar OC.  McCown returns to familiar OC both on the heels of using draft resources on QB's and these QB's have shown no promise. 

Maybe I'm way off base but I see McCown starting next season for as long as they can bare it and that's just a poor decision and a road we've been down oh to recently before. 

They're literally repeating the exact same strategy that got them in this exact position.