The Combine doesn't mean much

[Tinstar]

That's what they tell us every year . Every year, at the end of the college season, scouts and GMs grade players based on what they saw that season and how it compared to what they did over the time they played in college .

Then this event takes place, and a guys runs fast, and jumps high and far and all of a sudden the grades change .  Take for instance the case of 2 prospects in the persons of Dalvin Cook and Jordan Willis . Both players excelled at their positions in college and then came the combine.  I have watched football for as long as I can remember, and I have never seen a RB take a snap from a QB, get in a sprinter stance and take off .  What Cook does on a football field cannot be measured by a stop watch .

In the case of Willis, what he did on the football field was validated by the stop watch and yet he's graded where he's graded. 

But the combine doesn't matter .

[BroadwayJoe12]

What metric are you using for grades on players changing post-combine? Mock drafts? Until GMs from around the league post their pre-combine rankings and then you get to compare them to their post-combine rankings, you have no idea how the combine effects them. What more than likely happens, is Mayock and the rest pontificate all season long and their rankings only change when they start hearing what the GMs and teams really think of players. So a guy who was seen as a first round mock guy and ends up being a second round drafted guy, was most likely a second round guy from the beginning. Same goes for GMs catching up watching film around combine time, because their schedule has died down a bit after the season has ended and that may cause players to shift.  I think the combine matters, as events like broad jump, high jump and your short shuttle/cone drills are invaluable, but the 40yd and others I could do without. 

[prime21]

Might I add that I would love to see all these drills done with pads and helmets on.

[Jet_Engine1]

They're doing it wrong. It was originally just so they could do all the players physicals instead of them doing it 10 times. Then, when Scouting started becoming less an art, and more a science, they started turning it into a track meet. Now, it's a freaking television show. It's pointless for major prospects from big schools, all it can do is hurt them, but they're in a position where choosing NOT to participate hurts them as well. Pro Days and individual visits along with Game Tape should be enough to evaluate the guys from the big schools. Use the combine in its original form for an assembly line of physicals etc, and then have the "On Field Evaluation Drills" to evaluate small school, obscure, second and third tier guys.

 

But they managed to turn a glorified PT test into a television show that generates ratings, because Football fans are a bunch of obsessive nerds.

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

What metric are you using for grades on players changing post-combine? Mock drafts? Until GMs from around the league post their pre-combine rankings and then you get to compare them to their post-combine rankings, you have no idea how the combine effects them. What more than likely happens, is Mayock and the rest pontificate all season long and their rankings only change when they start hearing what the GMs and teams really think of players. So a guy who was seen as a first round mock guy and ends up being a second round drafted guy, was most likely a second round guy from the beginning. Same goes for GMs catching up watching film around combine time, because their schedule has died down a bit after the season has ended and that may cause players to shift.  I think the combine matters, as events like broad jump, high jump and your short shuttle/cone drills are invaluable, but the 40yd and others I could do without. 

Yet we take what these people like Mayock say as gospel especially when it's repeated over and over and over . Why did Idzik draft a safety that can't run or cover in the 1st round of a passing league ?   Why do players at positions that depend solely on their abilities excel in college yet go undrafted because they don't fit the profile ?    What if I told you that George Little was a better TE option than half the TEs being mentioned ahead of him with the exception of Howard ?  Would you believe me, or some guy who gets to talk about it on TV ?  

Remember, I said TE, not receiving TE .

[dbatesman]

Stupid people saying the Combine doesn't matter: a JN tradition unlike any other.

[JETSfaninNE]

12 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

They're doing it wrong. It was originally just so they could do all the players physicals instead of them doing it 10 times. Then, when Scouting started becoming less an art, and more a science, they started turning it into a track meet. Now, it's a freaking television show. It's pointless for major prospects from big schools, all it can do is hurt them, but they're in a position where choosing NOT to participate hurts them as well. Pro Days and individual visits along with Game Tape should be enough to evaluate the guys from the big schools. Use the combine in its original form for an assembly line of physicals etc, and then have the "On Field Evaluation Drills" to evaluate small school, obscure, second and third tier guys.

 

But they managed to turn a glorified PT test into a television show that generates ratings, because Football fans are a bunch of obsessive nerds.

Don't forget the most important part of the combine, the private interviews.  I think that provides the most value out of the combine "event"

Combine is pretty much a job fair.

[rangerous]

21 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

That's what they tell us every year . Every year, at the end of the college season, scouts and GMs grade players based on what they saw that season and how it compared to what they did over the time they played in college .

Then this event takes place, and a guys runs fast, and jumps high and far and all of a sudden the grades change .  Take for instance the case of 2 prospects in the persons of Dalvin Cook and Jordan Willis . Both players excelled at their positions in college and then came the combine.  I have watched football for as long as I can remember, and I have never seen a RB take a snap from a QB, get in a sprinter stance and take off .  What Cook does on a football field cannot be measured by a stop watch .

In the case of Willis, what he did on the football field was validated by the stop watch and yet he's graded where he's graded. 

But the combine doesn't matter .

it matters to the guys whose draft stock rises. and it's also a place where players can fail.  so there is some value if only to rate players on an apples to apples basis.  it's not perfect but it never will be.

[ASH1962]

17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Stupid people saying the Combine doesn't matter: a JN tradition unlike any other.

Stupid is as stupid does Mr. Bubba Gump Bowltite Jr.

The Combine is the most idiotic waste of time in history. Watching that crap on TV is like watching golf on TV - braindead, idiotic nonsense. If the combine was an Olympic try out I would say fine, but Track & Field has ZERO to do with the reality of NFL football. Yes they can tell a if guy can jump far. Big whoop. They can see that a guy can run fast. Terrific - I can still run fast at 55, but that does not mean I am an NFL caliber prospect. A QB can throw the ball 70 yards in the air. Great. The Combine is worth less than the pre season IMO. The whole draft deal is a crap shoot, it is pure luck in most cases. Just because a guy excelled in College and can perform Track and Field means jack squat in the adult league.

And calling anyone else stupid bleeds ignorance and arrogance. We are all entitled to our opinions without fear of some trolling know-it-all calling someone else stupid. Is that not what this board is for?

[Tinstar]

Completion percentage for a college QB is meaningless IMO.

Straight line speed for RB is also meaningless .

Exactly what good is speed to a receiver who can't catch or run a decent route ?

If my QB has all the physical attributes, but a ten cent head, what good is he ?  If you draft players based on what they do with what you tell them to do, you will never go wrong. When you draft players expecting them to do what you think they can do you will strike out more than you make contact .

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

And calling anyone else stupid bleeds ignorance and arrogance. We are all entitled to our opinions without fear of some trolling know-it-all calling someone else stupid.

If you honestly live in fear of a know-it-all calling you stupid, stupidity is probably the least of your concerns.

[#27TheDominator]

25 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Stupid is as stupid does Mr. Bubba Gump Bowltite Jr.

The Combine is the most idiotic waste of time in history. Watching that crap on TV is like watching golf on TV - braindead, idiotic nonsense. If the combine was an Olympic try out I would say fine, but Track & Field has ZERO to do with the reality of NFL football. Yes they can tell a if guy can jump far. Big whoop. They can see that a guy can run fast. Terrific - I can still run fast at 55, but that does not mean I am an NFL caliber prospect. A QB can throw the ball 70 yards in the air. Great. The Combine is worth less than the pre season IMO. The whole draft deal is a crap shoot, it is pure luck in most cases. Just because a guy excelled in College and can perform Track and Field means jack squat in the adult league.

And calling anyone else stupid bleeds ignorance and arrogance. We are all entitled to our opinions without fear of some trolling know-it-all calling someone else stupid. Is that not what this board is for?

If you think you run fast at 55, you should get yourself timed.  That is what the combine is for, interviews, physicals and to weed out the fakers.  There are still people on here that think Gholston was a product of the combine.  The guy was a physical freak, he actually did worse than I expected at the combine.  Since you believe the above, what the **** do you care?  There is literally nothing that means anything to you.  Past performance? Irrelevant.  Physical attributes?  Irrelevant.  If you think it is pure luck, what can you add to the conversation?

IMO, the 40 is more important than people give it credit.  Speed is probably the most important thing in the league.  It is difficult to decide where the cutoff should be, but 40 yards seems reasonable enough to me.  The problem was people looking at the 40 in a vacuum and thinking that is all that matters.  Combined with the jumps and shuttles, it will give a pretty good idea as to who is an explosive athlete and who is Peter Warrick.  The importance in doing it at the combine is the single stage aspect.  Kids train for it and have an even track and relatively even timing.  Pro day times are all over the map, between wind, surface, hand timing, etc.  

[nyjbuddy]

There are things that teams look at during the combine that most fans ignore and don't think are important.  Private interviews are important to teams, but so are the media interviews.  They want to see how players act in front of the media and may have to face questions about their pasts.  Medical examinations are also very important to teams and though each team could perform them themselves, going through 330 medical exams takes time if each team had to do their own.  They also perform psychological testing which many claim has no value when evaluating players but some evaluators do take it in consideration.  The on-field drills give the teams the ability to evaluate them with their peers and how they interact with the other players. Basically, what would they be like at practice.  Are they social or do they keep to themselves?  Are they asking the right questions? Are they being a distraction? Are they competitive even during the drills?  Are they trying to be the best them or are they trying to compete with the other guys out there?  What type of leader are they? Perfect example was Mariota and Winston the other year where you could see two different types of leaders, Winston was more of the alpha dog up in front leader while Mariota was quiet and showed his leadership through his play.  Furthermore, they evaluate the preparation that each player has gone through for the combine.  Some players say they have watched the combine before on TV, others trained and prepared with people that know what goes on at the combine.  But every year there are guys that just show up.  They may have been training on their own, never watched the combine and don't know what to expect.  These are the guys that look lost in the drills.  Toward the ending of the drills you can also see which guys are in shape and for those that aren't, you begin to see how they push through the fatigue.  It shows teams whether players are coachable and also shows whether a player is serious about football.

It is the biggest job interview of their lives up to that point.  If they are serious about it and love the game they should be prepared and capable of performing what ever they are asked to do.  You could have the most talented player, but if that guy is not coachable, doesn't follow drills, can't understand the drills, is a distraction at practice, etc. it will be very hard for a team to maximize his potential.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, prime21 said:

Might I add that I would love to see all these drills done with pads and helmets on.

Yep, and also wearing a Jets uniform as well, since that has had such a negative impact on so many once-promising prospects. Have to see which ones will play well with that additional layer of adversity lol.

[BroadwayJoe12]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

Stupid is as stupid does Mr. Bubba Gump Bowltite Jr.

The Combine is the most idiotic waste of time in history. Watching that crap on TV is like watching golf on TV - braindead, idiotic nonsense. If the combine was an Olympic try out I would say fine, but Track & Field has ZERO to do with the reality of NFL football. Yes they can tell a if guy can jump far. Big whoop. They can see that a guy can run fast. Terrific - I can still run fast at 55, but that does not mean I am an NFL caliber prospect. A QB can throw the ball 70 yards in the air. Great. The Combine is worth less than the pre season IMO. The whole draft deal is a crap shoot, it is pure luck in most cases. Just because a guy excelled in College and can perform Track and Field means jack squat in the adult league.

And calling anyone else stupid bleeds ignorance and arrogance. We are all entitled to our opinions without fear of some trolling know-it-all calling someone else stupid. Is that not what this board is for?

Just because math eludes you and performance metrics scare you, doesn't mean that they aren't valuable evaluation tools. The broad and high jump, combined with short-area agility and sprint drills are the exact metrics that are beginning to be quite accurately predict success in the NFL. The combine is only going to become more important as proper evaluation tools and algorithms are implemented in every-day use. More-so than they already are currently. 

[JohnJ]

The resources the teams have are much better also. The media has to get their reports out early for publications and TV shows.

 

But the scouting continues up right up until the draft with a much closer look at everything, including personally with the player, and their Pro Days.

 

Latching onto an early report from say The Hawk Kiper or My-cock can be very misleading. Especially when the Draft Ratings come..... That's biggest BS of it all.

 

.