UnitedWhofans Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just now, Bruce Harper said: The strongest argument for Gholston is that not only did he never get a sack, but I honestly can't even remember him every making a good play in the pros. Ever. And I would watch him carefully when he got in the game. Compared to Gholston, Darron Lee is a hall of famer after one season. Statistically he is by far. But, as I said before, his pick lacks that certain theatrical element, that I think the title of all-time worst draft pick would warrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Rexorcism said: Tie between Blair and Kenny O Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Kenny O'Brien was a better player than almost all the guys we are talking about. Sure Marino was far better but I don't know how you could propose O'Brien as our worst pick ever when there are so many guys who didn't even contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just now, Bruce Harper said: Kenny O'Brien was a better player than almost all the guys we are talking about. Sure Marino was far better but I don't know how you could propose O'Brien as our worst pick ever when there are so many guys who didn't even contribute. Ken O'Brien gets blasted only because he was taken before Marino. He was a solid QB playing behind a crap OL, which the Jets let deteriorate in the late 80s, so went their running game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Brady's a catcher said: Right, one tackle after a two yard gain puts him way ahead of the Ghost. My four year old said she wanted to sleep with her Jets pillow last night, I said "are you sure....." It was a joke, but looking at the stats, he did almost double Gholston's career output in 13 games played his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 2 hours ago, gEYno said: This is my point... All three of these guys are much better than Gholston, but what could and should have been done with that pick could have altered the fate of the franchise significantly. This is a fair point. Gholston is clearly the biggest bust, but since the question is "worst pick" you have to take more into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 It's Gholston, and he was so bad I don't think it's even debatable. One of the worst picks in league history, not just Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady's a catcher Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: It was a joke, but looking at the stats, he did almost double Gholston's career output in 13 games played his rookie year. Oh, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was agreeing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayRay Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Ken O'Brien was indeed the worst pick in franchise history. Mike Hickey's decision to pass over Dan Marino to prove how much smarter he was than everyone else was an epic mistake--the pinnacle of Jets buffoonery. This is not hindsight. I remember the pick vividly and everyone I knew whose a Jets fan was like, wtf? We all expected it would be Marino. Most of the mock drafts--the few that existed back in those days, anyway--had Marino going to the Jets. This isn't about O'Brien, who was a decent QB whose career was pretty much derailed by injuries. It's about the number of Super Bowl trophies the Jets would have right now if the obvious pick had been made, because Marino + the Sack Exchange would have been a potential dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Serious question: Do you think Jake was right to send his cousin, Rachel, to kill his Controller brother knowing it would result in her death and winning the war against the Yeerks? I'm still not sure some 15 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Bowling ball. Butcher knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Kenny O'Brien was a better player than almost all the guys we are talking about. Sure Marino was far better but I don't know how you could propose O'Brien as our worst pick ever when there are so many guys who didn't even contribute. Ken O'Brien gets blasted only because he was taken before Marino. He was a solid QB playing behind a crap OL, which the Jets let deteriorate in the late 80s, so went their running game too. Only because we couldve had Marino and with Marino we win at least 2 SB's maybe more...Once again our FO blew it. So Jetsie it makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKnight83 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 On Tuesday, April 04, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bruce Harper said: Kenny O'Brien was a better player than almost all the guys we are talking about. Sure Marino was far better but I don't know how you could propose O'Brien as our worst pick ever when there are so many guys who didn't even contribute. Because nobody knew who O'Brien was - it was a total shock. What many here fail to recognize is that both VG and DR were consensus picks at the spot they were taken. There was no surprise. Yes, they sucked, no doubt. Yet, any other team picking in that spot was taking those guys. No one would have taken O'Brien there. That pick was a a joke. I remember it well, I was in the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fed Hill Jet Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 On 4/4/2017 at 0:37 PM, gEYno said: It depends on how you define the worst pick. To me, Gholston isn't even in the conversation. Yes, he was a complete bust, but the opportunity cost was low. We had the 6th pick and we picked him at 6. But, what I think really eliminates Gholston is the fact that it's not like we picked him over a superstar. Right after him, the next three picks were also generally busts, and while there were good players to be had, it's not like we missed on a superstar. Maybe we could have picked Flacco there? Well if you want to explore what-if examples, our QBs at the time were Pennington (whom the team was looking for any excuse to dump, and did 4 months later) and Clemens. We started out at #6 and picked Gholston with all the $$$ that came with a 6th overall pick. Baltimore started out at #8, picked up Flacco for less than half Gholston's money, plus more pick(s) by trading way down (and then up a little). The other thing we missed out on was not moving up for Ryan, who was dangled right there for us. We balked at the asking price of the following year's #1 pick. Either of these non-moves led to the trade for Favre (at I think it was $13m and a 2nd round pick) for a single 9-7 season. Then after Favre retired again the following year, this led the QB-less Jets to pairing our #1 pick, our #2 pick, and 3 other players for Sanchez (like Gholston, under the old rookie wage scale for a top-5 pick), which led to moronically extending Sanchez, trading for Tebow, drafting Geno... Also who's to say whom the team then shied away from (for its outside pass rush) because of the investment in Gholston. Picks like that never exist isolated in a bubble IMO. It so often leads to a domino effect that dramatically affects what the team does thereafter. And with all of it, he was less than useless as a player and his $$$ off the cap cost the team a pro bowl FA it then couldn't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Well if you want to explore what-if examples, our QBs at the time were Pennington (whom the team was looking for any excuse to dump, and did 4 months later) and Clemens. We started out at #6 and picked Gholston with all the $$$ that came with a 6th overall pick. Baltimore started out at #8, picked up Flacco for less than half Gholston's money, plus more pick(s) by trading way down (and then up a little). The other thing we missed out on was not moving up for Ryan, who was dangled right there for us. We balked at the asking price of the following year's #1 pick. Either of these non-moves led to the trade for Favre (at I think it was $13m and a 2nd round pick) for a single 9-7 season. Then after Favre retired again the following year, this led the QB-less Jets to pairing our #1 pick, our #2 pick, and 3 other players for Sanchez (like Gholston, under the old rookie wage scale for a top-5 pick), which led to moronically extending Sanchez, trading for Tebow, drafting Geno... Also who's to say whom the team then shied away from (for its outside pass rush) because of the investment in Gholston. Picks like that never exist isolated in a bubble IMO. It so often leads to a domino effect that dramatically affects what the team does thereafter. And with all of it, he was less than useless as a player and his $$$ off the cap cost the team a pro bowl FA it then couldn't afford. You can extrapolate it to infinity to find whatever conclusion you like, including, I suppose that a good player we had cost us a superstar and call that the worst pick. I was trying to limit it to a player who was at the time of the draft considered of similar value... In other words, trying not to overuse hindsight in the analysis. For instance, Brady over Sapp wasn't really a hindsight call. And if you're going to include trades we might have made, then what about drafting Jon Vilma instead of jumping up for Big Rapist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 55 minutes ago, gEYno said: You can extrapolate it to infinity to find whatever conclusion you like, including, I suppose that a good player we had cost us a superstar and call that the worst pick. I was trying to limit it to a player who was at the time of the draft considered of similar value... In other words, trying not to overuse hindsight in the analysis. For instance, Brady over Sapp wasn't really a hindsight call. And if you're going to include trades we might have made, then what about drafting Jon Vilma instead of jumping up for Big Rapist? IMO there's a difference between playing realistic hindsight vs ultimate/unrealistic hindsight. Trading up for Big Rapist - no matter how much better that would have been, was unrealistic at the time. In April of 2004, Pennington's $63m contract, with some $23m guaranteed, was barely underway. That's unrealistic cherry-picking hindsight IMO. The 2008 Jets, on the other hand, expressed extreme interest in moving up for Ryan, they did end up making a trade for Favre, and it's therefore reasonable to play "what if" they'd instead taken a successful QB (e.g. Flacco, even if not Ryan) instead of one of draft history's biggest-ever busts in Gholston, and the domino effect of facepalm thereafter: 2008 1st round pick for Gholston himself 2008 2nd round equiv pick (for trading down from #6) 2009 1st round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd-3rd round pick for Sanchez (trade equivalent of Coleman/Elam/Ratliff) 2010 3rd round pick for Favre 2013 4th round pick for Tebow 2013 6th round pick for Tebow 2013 2nd round pick for Smith $18m for Gholston $13m for Favre $62m for Sanchez $4m for Tebow $4m for Smith What didn't we end up with? Start by spending that money and those picks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Gotta be Marko Cavka. That one bad play put him over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: IMO there's a difference between playing realistic hindsight vs ultimate/unrealistic hindsight. Trading up for Big Rapist - no matter how much better that would have been, was unrealistic at the time. In April of 2004, Pennington's $63m contract, with some $23m guaranteed, was barely underway. That's unrealistic cherry-picking hindsight IMO. The 2008 Jets, on the other hand, expressed extreme interest in moving up for Ryan, they did end up making a trade for Favre, and it's therefore reasonable to play "what if" they'd instead taken a successful QB (e.g. Flacco, even if not Ryan) instead of one of draft history's biggest-ever busts in Gholston, and the domino effect of facepalm thereafter: 2008 1st round pick for Gholston himself 2008 2nd round equiv pick (for trading down from #6) 2009 1st round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd round pick for Sanchez 2009 2nd-3rd round pick for Sanchez (trade equivalent of Coleman/Elam/Ratliff) 2010 3rd round pick for Favre 2013 4th round pick for Tebow 2013 6th round pick for Tebow 2013 2nd round pick for Smith $18m for Gholston $13m for Favre $62m for Sanchez $4m for Tebow $4m for Smith What didn't we end up with? Start by spending that money and those picks . I agree on Flacco to some extent. That's the one argument I think you can make for Gholston costing us significantly. Still Flacco was drafted at 18, and I don't think anyone considered him to be a player worthy of 6 at the time. I think you do have to leave Ryan out of the equation, because he wasn't available at the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Reading this thread, makes me want to go into therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 4 hours ago, gEYno said: I agree on Flacco to some extent. That's the one argument I think you can make for Gholston costing us significantly. Still Flacco was drafted at 18, and I don't think anyone considered him to be a player worthy of 6 at the time. I think you do have to leave Ryan out of the equation, because he wasn't available at the pick. Neither did Baltimore. They picked 8th and even they didn't take him there. They wanted him badly, but knew (or thought they knew) they could get him a bunch of picks later. So they traded down, picked up the extra pick(s), and not for nothing but it also reduced his rookie salary cap numbers to the $4m range for his first 4 NFL seasons (including any escalators/bonuses he got for not sucking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlagmanL11 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 4/4/2017 at 2:36 PM, Bruce Harper said: How could a guy drafted in the late second round be our worst draft pick ever? And he hasn't even gotten into a game yet. Exactly, not playing in a game and not ready to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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