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Derek Barnett


thadude

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1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

I think he's better than Garrett .  I have this awful feeling that Garrett is going to end up just like that LBer from Vanderbilt  a few yrs back 

Why? Reasons!

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallly like Barnett but easily take Garrett or Thomas over him. It would be a gift from Jah to land him in the second THO.

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41 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Why? Reasons!

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallly like Barnett but easily take Garrett or Thomas over him. It would be a gift from Jah to land him in the second THO.

Take a look at who Garrett got his sacks against and who Barnett got his against. Then compare the 2 players athletic ability and tell me again Garrett is the better player .

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9 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Take a look at who Garrett got his sacks against and who Barnett got his against. Then compare the 2 players athletic ability and tell me again Garrett is the better player .

I ask a question and I get homework? Homework that probably wouldn't actually progress anything? Garrett's an obviously better prospect, Barnett is still a very strong one, and both could/should be excellent pros.

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14 hours ago, Tinstar said:

I think he's better than Garrett .  I have this awful feeling that Garrett is going to end up just like that LBer from Vanderbilt  a few yrs back 

What's wrong with getting sacks vs. Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU, Tenn, South Carolina, Arkansas, Auburn and Bama?  It's like basically the same teams as Barnett except add the SEC East teams. 

 

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15 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Take a look at who Garrett got his sacks against and who Barnett got his against. Then compare the 2 players athletic ability and tell me again Garrett is the better player .

Garrett is the better player. 

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Barnett will be in the discussion at 6. I am convinced he will be there at 6, I don't think he will have to 'drop'. 

I still think the top 5 turns out like this:

CLE: Garrett

SF: S.Thomas

CHI: Allen

Jax: Fournette

TENN: Adams

NYJ: Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker, OJ Howard. Possibly top QB if Jets are interested, possibly trade down if Jets get an offer they like. 

 Obviously, there is a possibility that a team in the top 5 takes a QB or Tenn takes M.Williams or Lattimore/Hooker go top 5, but I doubt it. So it will come down to a QB, Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker or OJ Howard (barring a trade).  

My prediction- Hooker. 

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2 hours ago, PepPep said:

Barnett will be in the discussion at 6. I am convinced he will be there at 6, I don't think he will have to 'drop'. 

I still think the top 5 turns out like this:

CLE: Garrett

SF: S.Thomas

CHI: Allen

Jax: Fournette

TENN: Adams

NYJ: Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker, OJ Howard. Possibly top QB if Jets are interested, possibly trade down if Jets get an offer they like. 

 Obviously, there is a possibility that a team in the top 5 takes a QB or Tenn takes M.Williams or Lattimore/Hooker go top 5, but I doubt it. So it will come down to a QB, Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker or OJ Howard (barring a trade).  

My prediction- Hooker. 

I either want a combo of Barnett at 6 and Engram/Njoku at 39 or OJ Howard at 6 and Tim Williams/Charles Harris at 39

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

What's wrong with getting sacks vs. Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU, Tenn, South Carolina, Arkansas, Auburn and Bama?  It's like basically the same teams as Barnett except add the SEC East teams. 

 

Cam Robinson was the best Left Tackle in college last year so he is the test

Garret got a sack on him in the first quarter.  Robinson contained him the last 3 quarters of the game.

 

I think they are both excellent pass rusher prospects.  Garrett's hype has overshadowed Barnett a bit but that's good for us potentially

 

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A further breakdown of each player against the SEC.  Garrett accumulated 12 sacks against the SEC over 3 years.  Most of his sacks came from non-conference games.  Barnett's sacks mainly came from games against SEC teams, where he accumulated 29 over 3 years.  These stats were taken from espn.com

  Garrett 2014 2015 2016   Barnett 2014 2015 2016
                   
Florida   - - -     1 0 2
Tennessee   - - 1     - - -
Georgia   - - -     0 1 2
Kentucky   - - -     2 2 1
South Carolina   1 2 No stats available     3 1 3
Vanderbilt   - 0 -     1 2 1
Missouri   No stats available   -     0 0 1
Alabama   0 1 0     0 1 1
Auburn   0 0 2     - - -
LSU   0 1 0     - - -
Texas A&M   - - -     - - 1
Arkansas   0 1 0     - 0 -
Mississippi State   1 1 No stats available     - - -
Ole Miss   1 0 0     3 - -
    3 6 3     10 7 12
                   
Lamar   2              
Rice   2.5              
Louisiana Monroe   3.5              
Arizona State     2            
Nevada     3.5            
UT San Antonio       4          
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1 hour ago, thadude said:

I either want a combo of Barnett at 6 and Engram/Njoku at 39 or OJ Howard at 6 and Tim Williams/Charles Harris at 39

Not doubting Barnett's talent, but scheme fit is the bigger question.  Barnett seems better suited as a 4-3 edge rusher than a stand-up OLB in a 3-4 (like Abraham, or Ware, or Von Miller).  Watch the combine drills; he's more of a hand in the dirt kind of guy.  Garrett is the prototypical 3-4 OLB.

For me, the question is who are the d-line pass rushers, and who are the OLB pass rushers (and then within them, the 3-down vs. rush specialist).

For D-line, I see Solomon Thomas (with an asterisk as he is also interior), Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton and then a drop-off after that, Kpassagnon later in draft.

For 3-4 Rush OLB (every-down players), I see Garrett, Harris (yes, he is a top 12 player in the right scheme, no way he gets to the second round), McKinley, Derek Rivers, maybe Basham and then a drop-off to guys like Ryan Anderson and Willis who are a bit stiffer, solid contributor types.  Part of the difficulty here is projected 4-3 DE's in college to the OLB.  If you watched the combine though, the guy who lit it up was Charles Harris, answering doubts about whether he could make the switch.

For pass rush specialists (think Maybin) they are high-risk high reward in the right scheme.  Many of them fail due to lack of size and ability to shed blockers.  You can't put them on the field in rush situations.  Tim Williams is that guy in this draft, but I think he has major bust potential.  Trey Hendrickson too.

My sleeper late in draft is Ejuan Price from Pitt; dude is so undersized he's barely draftable, but he's got that low center of gravity around the edge, better than even Garrett.  Will be interesting to see who picks him up and whether he sticks in the pros.

 

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10 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Barnett is said to not have an explosive burst, but dude got results consistently against top college teams. Draft this beast

When I watch him I think he does. I think it comes down to how you see "explosiveness". When you only have a few seconds to get around a huge dude and then hurt another less huge dude, and do that with the consistency that Barnett does, surely some "explosiveness" is involved. People are sleeping on Derek.

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5 hours ago, PepPep said:

Barnett will be in the discussion at 6. I am convinced he will be there at 6, I don't think he will have to 'drop'. 

I still think the top 5 turns out like this:

CLE: Garrett

SF: S.Thomas

CHI: Allen

Jax: Fournette

TENN: Adams

NYJ: Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker, OJ Howard. Possibly top QB if Jets are interested, possibly trade down if Jets get an offer they like. 

 Obviously, there is a possibility that a team in the top 5 takes a QB or Tenn takes M.Williams or Lattimore/Hooker go top 5, but I doubt it. So it will come down to a QB, Barnett, Lattimore, Hooker or OJ Howard (barring a trade).  

My prediction- Hooker. 

I think there are reasonable arguments that Allen and Adams aren't taken this early and also that Jax don't take a RB. In fact it's the belief that Jax take Fournette that confuses me the most. It seems a little bone headed to consistently, for 3 years consecutively, to invest so much at the RB position. Seems unprofessional. I'm not sure just how talented Allen is and SS (regardless of how good Adams is), just isn't a relative position for a top 10 pick in todays NFL.

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Not doubting Barnett's talent, but scheme fit is the bigger question.  Barnett seems better suited as a 4-3 edge rusher than a stand-up OLB in a 3-4 (like Abraham, or Ware, or Von Miller).  Watch the combine drills; he's more of a hand in the dirt kind of guy.  Garrett is the prototypical 3-4 OLB.

For me, the question is who are the d-line pass rushers, and who are the OLB pass rushers (and then within them, the 3-down vs. rush specialist).

For D-line, I see Solomon Thomas (with an asterisk as he is also interior), Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton and then a drop-off after that, Kpassagnon later in draft.

For 3-4 Rush OLB (every-down players), I see Garrett, Harris (yes, he is a top 12 player in the right scheme, no way he gets to the second round), McKinley, Derek Rivers, maybe Basham and then a drop-off to guys like Ryan Anderson and Willis who are a bit stiffer, solid contributor types.  Part of the difficulty here is projected 4-3 DE's in college to the OLB.  If you watched the combine though, the guy who lit it up was Charles Harris, answering doubts about whether he could make the switch.

For pass rush specialists (think Maybin) they are high-risk high reward in the right scheme.  Many of them fail due to lack of size and ability to shed blockers.  You can't put them on the field in rush situations.  Tim Williams is that guy in this draft, but I think he has major bust potential.  Trey Hendrickson too.

My sleeper late in draft is Ejuan Price from Pitt; dude is so undersized he's barely draftable, but he's got that low center of gravity around the edge, better than even Garrett.  Will be interesting to see who picks him up and whether he sticks in the pros.

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Differentiating these players is the key. Hopefully Kevin Greene will know what to do with whoever we go with. I really like Harris' flexibility. He's got a lot of upside. The one thing that irked me was the mention of Kpassagnon. He looks like he has no idea what he's doing on tape, he's a 5th rounder in my eyes.

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I rather get an offensive game breaker with #6, but would not be opposed to selecting Barnett as he's done nothing but simply produce in a revered conference. If he could be that 3 nano-second difference maker ( ala John Abraham) in rushing the QB, the Jets defense line - Mo & Leo - would be freed up and EXPONENTIALLY increase the number of sacks produced. 

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16 hours ago, Lray said:

I think there are reasonable arguments that Allen and Adams aren't taken this early and also that Jax don't take a RB. In fact it's the belief that Jax take Fournette that confuses me the most. It seems a little bone headed to consistently, for 3 years consecutively, to invest so much at the RB position. Seems unprofessional. I'm not sure just how talented Allen is and SS (regardless of how good Adams is), just isn't a relative position for a top 10 pick in todays NFL.

I get what you mean, but I think you are taking a bit of a simplistic approach at the prospects. 

Adams is not just a SS. He is an impact player. Is Eric Berry just a SS? Would he be worth taking in the top 5? What about Cam Chancellor? Just saying. The safety position has proven itself to be a critical position of defense the past 5-10 years. Getting a stud at SS like Adams can change your whole defense- from the ability to stop the run without overloading the line to covering athletic TEs, etc.

Allen is pretty much the consensus #2 talent in the draft behind Garrett. He is a D-lineman so there has not been much talk about him on the Jets forum, but he is easily a top 5 prospect. The only way he slips to the Jets is if multiple QBs are taken in the top 5. 

TJ Yeldon, who's contract is up in 2018 (who is making peanuts now btw). Ivory was their big FA signing. But as we all know, Ivory is a violent runner, gets nicked up a lot and cannot really handle a full load as a lead back. He's also 29. Which in RB years is getting up there in age. Furthermore, neither of them are close to the talent Fournette is. You may disagree, but, to me, drafting Fournette makes perfect sense for the Jags.

I DO think there is a possibility that a QB goes in the top 5 or Tenn decides to go with a WR or, yes the Jags are not as high on Frounette as I am and they go in a different direction. But I'm sticking to my board, for now.       

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17 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I get what you mean, but I think you are taking a bit of a simplistic approach at the prospects. 

Adams is not just a SS. He is an impact player. Is Eric Berry just a SS? Would he be worth taking in the top 5? What about Cam Chancellor? Just saying. The safety position has proven itself to be a critical position of defense the past 5-10 years. Getting a stud at SS like Adams can change your whole defense- from the ability to stop the run without overloading the line to covering athletic TEs, etc.

Allen is pretty much the consensus #2 talent in the draft behind Garrett. He is a D-lineman so there has not been much talk about him on the Jets forum, but he is easily a top 5 prospect. The only way he slips to the Jets is if multiple QBs are taken in the top 5. 

TJ Yeldon, who's contract is up in 2018 (who is making peanuts now btw). Ivory was their big FA signing. But as we all know, Ivory is a violent runner, gets nicked up a lot and cannot really handle a full load as a lead back. He's also 29. Which in RB years is getting up there in age. Furthermore, neither of them are close to the talent Fournette is. You may disagree, but, to me, drafting Fournette makes perfect sense for the Jags.

I DO think there is a possibility that a QB goes in the top 5 or Tenn decides to go with a WR or, yes the Jags are not as high on Frounette as I am and they go in a different direction. But I'm sticking to my board, for now.       

I think you have to be kind of simplistic or at least very decisive with the #6 pick. With so many options still available it becomes very easy to make the wrong pick.

With Yeldon I meant the investment of a high pick as opposed to his salary.

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9 minutes ago, Lray said:

I think you have to be kind of simplistic or at least very decisive with the #6 pick. With so many options still available it becomes very easy to make the wrong pick.

With Yeldon I meant the investment of a high pick as opposed to his salary.

To be honest, Injury may play a pivotal role early in the draft, which is why I have Hooker and Lattimore out of the top 5 and why I have reservations that Fournette will go top 5 even though he is probably a top 3 overall talent. 

Unlike some, I think the Jets will have a ton of VERY GOOD options at 6. It's not nec. no man's land. An absolutely fantastic prospect should be there. One thing I don't want them to do it take a QB they are not sure about (which is pretty much everyone in the draft-lol) or a player with injury history. Otherwise, I will trust Macc's judgement. 

Sidenote: above all else I want the Jets to trade down and add draft picks. 

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16 minutes ago, PepPep said:

To be honest, Injury may play a pivotal role early in the draft, which is why I have Hooker and Lattimore out of the top 5 and why I have reservations that Fournette will go top 5 even though he is probably a top 3 overall talent. 

Unlike some, I think the Jets will have a ton of VERY GOOD options at 6. It's not nec. no man's land. An absolutely fantastic prospect should be there. One thing I don't want them to do it take a QB they are not sure about (which is pretty much everyone in the draft-lol) or a player with injury history. Otherwise, I will trust Macc's judgement. 

Sidenote: above all else I want the Jets to trade down and add draft picks. 

Agree completely.

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On 4/13/2017 at 11:57 AM, PepPep said:

To be honest, Injury may play a pivotal role early in the draft, which is why I have Hooker and Lattimore out of the top 5 and why I have reservations that Fournette will go top 5 even though he is probably a top 3 overall talent. 

Unlike some, I think the Jets will have a ton of VERY GOOD options at 6. It's not nec. no man's land. An absolutely fantastic prospect should be there. One thing I don't want them to do it take a QB they are not sure about (which is pretty much everyone in the draft-lol) or a player with injury history. Otherwise, I will trust Macc's judgement. 

Sidenote: above all else I want the Jets to trade down and add draft picks. 

Agreed as well.

Curious what people think about Solomon Thomas. I'm not worried about having him on the inside as long as he gets consistent pressure. We've been looking for consistent pressure since John Abraham and if this guy fell I'd be perfectly happy with him.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/solomon-thomas?id=2558018

STRENGTHS

Angular build, well-built frame. His mother, father and uncle were all collegiate athletes. Lined up at multiple positions. Has ravenous approach to the game. Gets out of the blocks quickly and attacks with early, skilled hands. Stays hungry and wants to feast. Powerful for his size. Shows ability to win with power or quickness. Outstanding athleticism. Fluid in his play. Transitions from move to move. Unpredictable pass rush. Attacks both the edges and can crank up a bull rush. Uses swipes, rips and arm-over to unlock his rush. Hands and feet work in unison. Has lightning-quick spin move he can access to unhinge from block and find new life in his rush. Violent disengagements from blocks leave no doubt blocker is whipped. Relentless approach combined with athleticism makes block recoveries extremely difficult in run or pass. Refuses extended engagements to blockers and works himself free. Will sniff out gaps and make himself skinny into the backfield. Very good pursuit speed and range as playmaker.

WEAKNESSES

Considered a "tweener" by scouts, who believe he could struggle to keep enough weight on his frame to play along interior. Length is below average as five-technique. Plays with inconsistent pad level. Needs to get bigger and stronger through his lower body. Tends to play taller as play rolls along and can get washed out of plays by strong down blocks. Hands are quick but need more consistent pop behind them. Overall play strength can be improved. "Big and strong" across from him causes some issues. Gets engulfed at times. Snap-count guesser with seven offsides penalties in 2016.

SOURCES TELL US

"He's damn good. I don't think he gets drafted as early as you do because he's not big enough for inside and he's not as long as you like on the outside. You have to figure out where you will play him, but he won't stop. He's going to be really productive." -- Director of scouting for AFC team

NFL COMPARISON

 Justin Smith
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On 4/11/2017 at 6:57 PM, Tinstar said:

I think he's better than Garrett .  I have this awful feeling that Garrett is going to end up just like that LBer from Vanderbilt  a few yrs back 

I've been trying to figure this out since you posted it...haha

Are you referring to Aaron Curry who played at Wake Forest?  Because I'm not sure that Vandy has ever had a LB'er drafted. lol

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2 hours ago, peebag said:

If you're curious as to how Barnett looks - go review the Music City Bowl vs. the Huskers....lord almighty he was playing in our backfield the entire game....

 

Go put on the 2nd half of the Gators game this year.  I've never seen a player more disruptive to an OL and completely destroy the rhythm of an offense the way he did in the 2nd half of that game.  It was unreal. 

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46 minutes ago, JiF said:

I've been trying to figure this out since you posted it...haha

Are you referring to Aaron Curry who played at Wake Forest?  Because I'm not sure that Vandy has ever had a LB'er drafted. lol

Thanks for the correction .

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Makes sense now.  FWIW, Curry didnt have as many sacks in his career as Garrett did in any single season at A&M.  Different kind of players. 

 

It's funny, but what I posted about Barnett and Garrett was displayed in that game @peebag posted  .  The difference was staggering especially when you consider how lousy the Vols defense was .

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Barnett is one of the more uninspiring "top 10" guys i've watched in a while. He's a hard worker sure... but man. suspect speed/athleticism... No flash. I wouldn't touch him before round 2. Why? He's gonna slide. 

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