What are the reasons to not draft Watson?

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

this too, all of those guys will be good, and we will definitely draft one next year, and he will be good for us,

As MissLonelyhearts pointed out a few years ago, we say this every year about next year's QB crop. But, those dudes seem pretty legitimate and transferable. Everyone likes Watson, but his arm isn't great and you've gotta wrestle with that.

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LMAO, you don't get it at all. But I've noticed that pattern from you in the past so I will leave it be. 

Ok dude whatever go buy a McCown jersey maybe they will take a trade in of your Fitzpatrick 

6 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Yeah, maybe if they're going to play Alabama...Lol. He doesn't even know How to play NFL Football yet. His arm strength is below average, and he throws at a lower velocity than the standard. Hes never worked from under center OR operates a huddle. He's inaccurate. But yeah, he'd be the "best Quarterback on the roster". LOL. 

We'll find out what the NFL thinks about him on the 27th. Maybe.

He would be the best QB on our roster thats correct. 

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That really isn't the way this works. Just because Watson played on a great college team and won a national title doesn't make him the presumptive best QB in the draft class. See Tebow/Mccaron/Mcelroy/Vince  Young etc.....

He doesn't have a strong arm, isn't that accurate and threw 17 Ints against College CBs while he had elite weapons on offense including arguably the best WR in this coming draft class. 

So let me ask you, aside from being on a national championship team (which has been proven to mean nothing when it comes to future NFL success), what makes you think Watson is a franchise QB?

Great college team? He's been far and away their best player for years now. He's a three+ year starter who threw a ton of passes, completed 2/3+ of them, scored a ton of TDs, won a ton of games, played extremely well in back to back NCs, beat the massive favorites a year after covering against that same favorite.

You talk about the 17 INTs, ignore the 50 TDs including 41 through the air. You talk about elite weapons and mention one guy entering the draft with him. 

[jetrider]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I need it laid out for me because I can not think of one.

1. He throws pick6s to defenders standing right in front of his nose. No football coach can rewire his eye-brain wiring. Been there with Mark Sanchez.

2. His arm isn't great, can't make all throws. Been there with Chad and Fitz.

3. This year's QB class stinks like a pack mule's crotch

4. You and others like JetFaninMI sound like first-time home buyers

5. We don't need another project QB, we need a real deal superstar that no terrible HC can destroy

 

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As MissLonelyhearts pointed out a few years ago, we say this every year about next year's QB crop. But, those dudes seem pretty legitimate and transferable. Everyone likes Watson, but his arm isn't great and you've gotta wrestle with that.

We always "wait until next year" problem is next year never comes. 

Its going to be a long season with McCown,Hack and Petty. 

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Because he threw them in....College. And if you watched him play, you would have recognized immediately that the ball doesn't come out of his hand the way it does from an NFL caliber QB. 

Might as well be speaking another language. So at the core, none of this shows up in 1200+ passes over 3+ seasons sooooolely because it's college? That's how it works - all that is out the door because something about how the ball is supposed to look? How does this stuff not sound insane or at least way too vague to buy? 

[joewilly12]

 

[goober36]

I need it laid out for me because I can not think of one.

Is arm strength is of a 40 year old qb


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet_Engine1]

Bottom line...IF the Jets draft a QB in the first round, Top 10, then regardless of the coming season, records etc, the Jets will absolutely NOT draft a first rounder QB next year. To do so after drafting a QB top 10 the prior year would be an admittance of disaster. We'll hear the same old crap, "Mitchell is really picking up the offense"...."DeShaun is becoming very comfortable in the pocket and just needs time in the system" blah blah blah.

 

And then you wind up with Chad Pennington and pass on Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisburger because "we're set at QB"...Lol.

 

Trubisquit? Watson? LOL. These guys are 4th rounders next year. Why do you think Mitch is coming out? He's pulling the Sanchez Manuever and getting into the weaker draft. Smart business move, but that doesn't make him a Franchise QB. And just because DeShaun Watson may some day be better than the absolute garbage on the Jets roster (maybe, someday)...That doesn't mean you grab the fast food burger from the drive through because your hungry RIGHT NOW, when you can keep driving down the same road a bit and get a Prime Steak fro. Mortons....For the same price!

 

Don't be desperate. It makes you do stupid sh*t. Stay the course. See what we got with Hack. And if it's disaster, all the better. We cut bait and get The Darnold....

[Sarge4Tide]

I'm sick of looking at that sumbitch after the last 2 national championship games.  I'd be happy to have him on my team 

[SenorGato]

I also can't believe how weirdly confident in next year's QB class, for reasons totally, everyone seems to be. The real QB class is in 2021 with Jeff Fahey and Todd Glassman. If not then it's definitely for sure in 2022. 

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We always "wait until next year" problem is next year never comes. 

Its going to be a long season with McCown,Hack and Petty. 

C'mon, Jets have drafted 8 QB's in 12 years.  2 of them are currently on the roster, and haven't had a fair chance.

You want to draft another QB with a very low ceiling at 6? 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

C'mon, Jets have drafted 8 QB's in 12 years.  2 of them are currently on the roster, and haven't had a fair chance.

You want to draft another QB with a very low ceiling at 6? 

Agree to disagree. 

What do we have in Hackenberg he should have played last season and we would have seen something 

Petty seems fragile. 

So are you ready to watch McCown and then listen to Todd Bowles tell you he gives us the best chance to win Im not......

[Jet_Engine1]

16 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Might as well be speaking another language. So at the core, none of this shows up in 1200+ passes over 3+ seasons sooooolely because it's college? That's how it works - all that is out the door because something about how the ball is supposed to look? How does this stuff not sound insane or at least way too vague to buy? 

Jamarcus Russell, Tim Tebow, Akili Smith, Johnny Manzel, Ken Dorsey, Trent Edwards, JP Losman, Jared Goff, Chris Weinke all say hello....And there's another 100+ guys from the past 20 years who were prolific College Quarterbacks, National Championship Winners, record holders....That simply could NOT play on the next level. Because the College game is so different a game from the NFL, especially at the QB position, it's barely comparable. You don't look at game results, you look at the tools the guy has, the way he throws the ball, the accuracy of the player. The arm speed and release. Throwing lobs up to your best player over and over again (Trubisky, Watson), getting away with weak velocity from a spread/horizontal offense, throwing bubble screens and RB flares 60% of the time can work in College ball. They can get away with it. 

 

Not in the pros. And in this draft, the best "Tools" belong to Trubisky. And I don'twant him, either. Why would you want a.pior man's Andy Dalton when you can possibly have a shot at Elway/Marino 2.0 next year.....

[Barkus]

34 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Who at 6 instantly improves this team?  We need a QB nothing else matters. 

Fournette or Howard are big time offensive players that can score anytime they touch the ball from any point on the field.

[dbatesman]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As MissLonelyhearts pointed out a few years ago, we say this every year about next year's QB crop. But, those dudes seem pretty legitimate and transferable. Everyone likes Watson, but his arm isn't great and you've gotta wrestle with that.

So your point is that we say this every year, but this time it's totally true? I've wrestled with Watsons's arm strength. I've given it a couple haymakers and clotheslined it and put it in the figure four. I don't think he's a perfect prospect, or even a great one. But he checks the big boxes, and I think him turning into a legit player is far more likely than the fantasy being spun here, wherein the most quarterback-snakebit franchise in the sport chooses the two in the bush and it somehow doesn't blow up in their face.

[flgreen]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree to disagree. 

What do we have in Hackenberg he should have played last season and we would have seen something 

Petty seems fragile. 

So are you ready to watch McCown and then listen to Todd Bowles tell you he gives us the best chance to win Im not......

Ok

"What do we have in Hackenberg he should have played last season and we would have seen something "  

Hated the Hack selection.  Again a super nice kid who I think is going to struggle in the NFL.  I want to see what, if anything he has this year.

 

"Petty seems fragile."  Fair point.  On the flip side he has certainly shown improvement with the Jets.  After his junior season in college he looked like a lock 1st round pick.  Want to see what improvement he makes this season.  If he sucks, he sucks

 

"So are you ready to watch McCown and then listen to Todd Bowles tell you he gives us the best chance to win Im not......"

No!!!! I've made that pretty clear.  I don not want to see Mccown on the field this season.  IMO the Jets should live of die with the kids.........Then move on from there.

[JoJoTownsell1]

24 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Great college team? He's been far and away their best player for years now. He's a three+ year starter who threw a ton of passes, completed 2/3+ of them, scored a ton of TDs, won a ton of games, played extremely well in back to back NCs, beat the massive favorites a year after covering against that same favorite.

You talk about the 17 INTs, ignore the 50 TDs including 41 through the air. You talk about elite weapons and mention one guy entering the draft with him. 

Most preseason top 25 projections have Clemson ranked in the 2-6 range WITHOUT Watson and with an unknown QB coming in. 

That's with losing Mike Williams and a few other key pieces. 

And Geno managed 42 TDS with just 6 ints. 17 ints for a QB playing with elite talent is worrisome. Especially when the talent isn't elite.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

So your point is that we say this every year, but this time it's totally true? I've wrestled with Watsons's arm strength. I've given it a couple haymakers and clotheslined it and put it in the figure four. I don't think he's a perfect prospect, or even a great one. But he checks the big boxes, and I think him turning into a legit player is far more likely than the fantasy being spun here, wherein the most quarterback-snakebit franchise in the sport chooses the two in the bush and it somehow doesn't blow up in their face.

When you tell me a dude's fastball tops out at 84 MPH, I think of Pennington who had literally every other part of the game locked down, and I get the shakes thinking about how many passes turned into turnovers because it was .00045 seconds late. 

[dbatesman]

Just now, T0mShane said:

When you tell me a dude's fastball tops out at 84 MPH, I think of Pennington who had literally every other part of the game locked down, and I get the shakes thinking about how many passes turned into turnovers because it was .00045 seconds late. 

We're also throwing a pretty spectacular college career in the dumpster based on one radar gun reading, but to each his own, I guess.

[JohnnyLV]

10 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree to disagree. 

What do we have in Hackenberg he should have played last season and we would have seen something 

Petty seems fragile. 

So are you ready to watch McCown and then listen to Todd Bowles tell you he gives us the best chance to win Im not......

he should have played last season and we would have seen something I am so so fuucking tired of this drivel. Hackenburg not playing last year says NOTHING about him. and we were specifically told maybe as early as April of last year that he would red shirt his first year. He is a project and needs to fix some issues, but his main issue is footwork and that CAN be fixed.

Hackenburg has dramatically higher upside than Watson. Hackenburg has

Elite arm strnegth

Elite release

Extremely high football intelligence

Experience under center

Experience in a pro offense

Very high performance under a real head coach in O'Brien

Watson has NONE of these.

Hackenburgs upside is the best QB in the NFL.

Watson's is Alex Smith, maybe.

In my analysis, Mahones, Trubisky and maybe even Kizer and Davis Webb ALL have more upside than Watson, who I firmly believe will flop hard in the NFL. All he has is the "winner" intangible which has been proven over and over and over and over to mean nothing in the transition to the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

We're also throwing a pretty spectacular college career in the dumpster based on one radar gun reading, but to each his own, I guess.

To be fair, he's not all that accurate, either. If they draft him at 6, that's fine. I'm sure it'll be a great story and I'll hope Morton has a plan for him. It'll be refreshing to have a guy of his caliber running plays for us. But if we're sitting here in three years after Stephon Gilmore runs another pick six back on a Watson soft-toss, we're all gonna be wicked depressed because it was 100% predictable.

[JohnnyLV]

9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

We're also throwing a pretty spectacular college career in the dumpster based on one radar gun reading, but to each his own, I guess.

At the end of the day, his college record is irrelevant. It is how his skills translate to the pro game which is nothing at all like the college game. People fall in love with "winners"  especially ones that win national championships in an exciting way but it means nothing really.

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

To be fair, he's not all that accurate, either. 

wait wat

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But if we're sitting here in three years after Stephon Gilmore runs another pick six back on a Watson soft-toss, we're all gonna be wicked depressed 

More or less depressed than if he's running back one of Hackenberg's signature wobbly darts? Or in this scenario is everyone feeling copacetic about our future franchise QB who hasn't declared for the draft yet?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

wait wat

More or less depressed than if he's running back one of Hackenberg's signature wobbly darts? Or in this scenario is everyone feeling copacetic about our future franchise QB who hasn't declared for the draft yet?

We're drafting a corner regardless.

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We're drafting a corner regardless.

My TV might not survive the Jets picking a friggin corner at 6. 

[RESNewYork]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I need it laid out for me because I can not think of one.

Unlike most on this board I agree with you. Hoping he's the pick at 6. From what I've read a great leader with high football IQ. Don't sweat the arm, he will bulk up a little and improve his stregnth. I see him as a winner at qb who will win a lot of close games. 

2nd hopeful choice. Jamal Adams 

[TuscanyTile2]

48 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you tell me a dude's fastball tops out at 84 MPH, I think of Pennington who had literally every other part of the game locked down, and I get the shakes thinking about how many passes turned into turnovers because it was .00045 seconds late. 

He could throw a 2 yard dump off like nobody's business though!

[TuscanyTile2]

46 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

he should have played last season and we would have seen something I am so so fuucking tired of this drivel. Hackenburg not playing last year says NOTHING about him. and we were specifically told maybe as early as April of last year that he would red shirt his first year. He is a project and needs to fix some issues, but his main issue is footwork and that CAN be fixed.

Hackenburg has dramatically higher upside than Watson. Hackenburg has

Elite arm strnegth

Elite release

Extremely high football intelligence

Experience under center

Experience in a pro offense

Very high performance under a real head coach in O'Brien

Watson has NONE of these.

Hackenburgs upside is the best QB in the NFL.

Watson's is Alex Smith, maybe.

In my analysis, Mahones, Trubisky and maybe even Kizer and Davis Webb ALL have more upside than Watson, who I firmly believe will flop hard in the NFL. All he has is the "winner" intangible which has been proven over and over and over and over to mean nothing in the transition to the NFL.

I get it.  You were just seeing if people were paying attention.  (and I like Hack)

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Jamarcus Russell, Tim Tebow, Akili Smith, Johnny Manzel, Ken Dorsey, Trent Edwards, JP Losman, Jared Goff, Chris Weinke all say hello....And there's another 100+ guys from the past 20 years who were prolific College Quarterbacks, National Championship Winners, record holders....That simply could NOT play on the next level. Because the College game is so different a game from the NFL, especially at the QB position, it's barely comparable. You don't look at game results, you look at the tools the guy has, the way he throws the ball, the accuracy of the player. The arm speed and release. Throwing lobs up to your best player over and over again (Trubisky, Watson), getting away with weak velocity from a spread/horizontal offense, throwing bubble screens and RB flares 60% of the time can work in College ball. They can get away with it. 

 

Not in the pros. And in this draft, the best "Tools" belong to Trubisky. And I don'twant him, either. Why would you want a.pior man's Andy Dalton when you can possibly have a shot at Elway/Marino 2.0 next year.....

What do any of these guys have to do with Watson? None of these guys come even a little bit kinda sorta close to what he did in college. They have nothing in common beyond a couple of them winning a NC. Do you not see how insane it reads on my end to knock a guy with this resume for his massive successes and using it as an argument for why he won't succeed? And it's not even like you're looking at the work in total - just the NC win, deciding that doesn't count because JaMarcus Russell won one and scientifically this means all NC winning QBs suck.  

Lol I should have just skipped to the last part...So the Elway/Marino in this draft is a guy with one season under his belt and small scale success during that one season? A guy who couldn't win a starting job for years? None of this makes sense to me, Trubisky has way more in common with those turds listed above than Watson in any objective measure. 

 

 

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

What do any of these guys have to do with Watson? None of these guys come even a little bit kinda sorta close to what he did in college. They have nothing in common beyond a couple of them winning a NC. Do you not see how insane it reads on my end to knock a guy with this resume for his massive successes and using it as an argument for why he won't succeed? 

Lol I should have just skipped to the last part...So the Elway/Marino in this draft is a guy with one season under his belt and small scale success during that one season? A guy who couldn't win a starting job for years? None of this makes sense to me, Trubisky has way more in common with those turds listed above than Watson in any objective measure. 

 

 

 

 

[Gas2No99]

 

=

[Hael]

I don't see it for Watson.  The kid has so many red flags.  The spotty accuracy, spotty arm talent and questionable decision making is really quite unforgiving in this league.

i love the work ethic, and I think he is coachable, but I don't think he's worth a 6.

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Being tedious on top of vague and arbitrary doesn't seem like the best way to make whatever your point is. Go back to naming random QB busts who most resemble Trubisky on paper but totally definitely are Warson's future because combine velocity or gut or something. 

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Being tedious on top of vague and arbitrary doesn't seem like the best way to make whatever your point is. 

If you thought I was referring to Trubisquit as the "Elway/Marino" of the draft, then I can't help you. As for being "tedious", lighten up, Francis. Just because you're wrong but still arguingout of emotion doesn't mean you have to be so pedantic.