What are the reasons to not draft Watson?

[slats]

10 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

17 Ints last year isn't another reason? Questionable accuracy isn't a 3rd reason? 

We aren't talking about taking this kid in the 2nd or 3rd round, we are talking about taking him at 6. Could he become a franchise QB, of course. So could Trubisky/Kizer/Mahomes/Webb etc... The question is whether you want to use the 6th overall on a QB that has some serious weaknesses. 

Meanwhile, teams like the Niners/Browns don't seem to be that eager to take Watson with picks ahead of us. That doesn't mean he will be bad, but it's certainly something many of you should be wondering. 

 

The interceptions and arm strength go hand in hand. Passes he was able to slip past college defenders will often not make it past pro defenders. 

[derp]

11 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is literally the only reason, and in all fairness, it is a serious concern.

I'm sure there are more, but this is the most glaring one. Seems like 55mph is a legitimate threshold for success and he's way below it.

Also think Macc values arm strength although I'm curious if that's him, was Gailey related and the potential shift to a WCO changes things, or was just a coincidence.

Probably misreading this but I think the Trubisky love is a smokescreen, I do buy they love Mahomes and think he could be in play pretty high, think Kizer is in play if he slips to R2 and they do nothing R1, and I'm not sure on Webb/Peterman. Webb seems interesting and Peterman could be their secret guy/target at 70 or in a move down from 39 depending on how things fall.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Yet when I watched Clemson, I thought to myself that this guy can't really get any velocity on his longer passes (which weren't that long).  So there is that (for me).  

Watson will be just another guy in the NFL.  Nothing special.  He has some really good attributes (legs, smarts, heart) and some not so NFL-good.  IMO, he is much overrated.  I'd take more of the unknowns over him like Trubisky or Mahomes. 

Well, then we were watching 2 different QB's.  He has plenty of velocity, he can make any throw and he asked to drive the ball down the field 10x more than your normal option read.  The guy lit up college D's loaded with NFL talent and of these "issues" mattered. 

He's basically Marcus Mariota except a shorter. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

The interceptions and arm strength go hand in hand. Passes he was able to slip past college defenders will often not make it past pro defenders. 

Can you explain why Jameis Winston and Matt Ryan and all their arm strength threw just as many INT's in college? 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

The interceptions and arm strength go hand in hand. Passes he was able to slip past college defenders will often not make it past pro defenders. 

i admire what watson did in college, but his game simply does not translate to the nfl.  he has a weak arm, can't read defenses, is not tall or well built and is a turnover machine.  besides his scrambling i don't see anything that reasonably translates to the nfl.  and the winning only goes so far, vince young was a winner too.  i think trubisky's skills translates well to the west coast offense and i wonder if that will be given additional consideration in the jets war room.

[thadude]

Watson's accuracy especially on longer throws is a bigger issue than velocity 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well, then we were watching 2 different QB's.  He has plenty of velocity, he can make any throw and he asked to drive the ball down the field 10x more than your normal option read.  The guy lit up college D's loaded with NFL talent and of these "issues" mattered. 

He's basically Marcus Mariota except a shorter. 

mariotta threw 14 picks in 3 years at oregon.  watson threw 17 picks last year.  they are not the same qb, not even close.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i admire what watson did in college, but his game simply does not translate to the nfl.  he has a weak arm, can't read defenses, is not tall or well built and is a turnover machine.  besides his scrambling i don't see anything that reasonably translates to the nfl.  and the winning only goes so far, vince young was a winner too.  i think trubisky's skills translates well to the west coast offense and i wonder if that will be given additional consideration in the jets war room.

Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel were winners too

[Augustiniak]

Just now, thadude said:

Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel were winners too

exactly.  and their games didn't translate to the pro game either.  

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

exactly.  and their games didn't translate to the pro game either.  

Manziel's did but he cares more about partying than being a football player

[thadude]

I don't hate Watson like I did Lynch last year but I wouldn't use a first round pick on him.  Ditto for Trubisky 

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

mariotta threw 14 picks in 3 years at oregon.  watson threw 17 picks last year.  they are not the same qb, not even close.

Their the exactly same actually.  Mariota didnt throw the ball nearly as much as Watson nor did he play even remotely the same competition. 

The only difference between the 2?  One has huge gigantic balls in the clutch and the other a soft little pussy who shrinks when the big lights are shinning. 

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, thadude said:

Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel were winners too

 

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

exactly.  and their games didn't translate to the pro game either.  

Serious question, do you guys watch college Football?  To put them in the same category as Watson is laughable. 

[Dcat]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well, then we were watching 2 different QB's.  He has plenty of velocity, he can make any throw and he asked to drive the ball down the field 10x more than your normal option read.  The guy lit up college D's loaded with NFL talent and of these "issues" mattered. 

He's basically Marcus Mariota except a shorter. 

not even close.  agree to disagree.

p.s.  Hey, you're a Gator... what do you think of Jarrad Davis?  I was doing a mock for the Jets and all the top Edge rushers were grabbed before the Jets and for my board, the BPA was ILB Davis.  Do you think he's worthy of a 2nd round pick?  Potential Harris replacement for 2018?  Reports on him say he is a good signal caller for the defense, a hard hitter...  Watched a little video of him and liked what I saw.  

[slats]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

We're also throwing a pretty spectacular college career in the dumpster based on one radar gun reading, but to each his own, I guess.

I know you hated the Hackenberg pick, and I suspect that has an effect on your view of Watson, but that arm strength is a major concern. If it is, indeed, just one radar gun reading, then he and his trainers and agent should've done everything they could've done to get a better one out there. They haven't done that. 

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Their the exactly same actually.  Mariota didnt throw the ball nearly as much as Watson nor did he play even remotely the same competition. 

The only difference between the 2?  One has huge gigantic balls in the clutch and the other a soft little pussy who shrinks when the big lights are shinning. 

mariotta had 26 tds last year vs. 9 picks and he ran for 2 more tds.  i would take him in a heartbeat over watson and so would every single gm in the nfl.

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Serious question, do you guys watch college Football?  To put them in the same category as Watson is laughable. 

How?  Watson was in a spread offense and only had to read half the field.  That's basically what Tebow did at Florida

[Pointdexter]

I find it really odd that everyone just completely ignored my post showing Mayock's assessment of Watson' arm strength, at his pro day, as "outstanding on all three levels."

I repeat Mike Mayock stated less than a month ago his arm strength is "outstanding on all three levels."

[Pointdexter]

This has to count for something. It's not like the guy has a noodle arm.

[The Crusher]

Personally I would like to know more about this radar gun velocity test. Was it really done randomly without the QBs knowing is was being done? The obvious assumption would be they did it during the same drill the QBs threw for. 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

One radar reading during a drill where the point is to complete passes.  In that drill, Watson by far looked like the best prospect throwing the Football.  He had zip, placement and accuracy.  But a couple of bloggers up in the stands point a radar gun at a couple of random passes that Watson didnt know were being clocked and poof - 49 MPH was created and its the first time I've ever heard of it.  Meanwhile, there is no proof that 49 MPH cant succeed in the NFL because the sample size is so small and it's a completely illegitimate effort run by bloggers with nobody else in the industry verifying their "findings". 

Of all the predraft hysteria that is created over the years as the draft process becomes more involved...this MPH thingy that is new to 2017 is the stupidest sh*t I've yet to see.

But by that logic, if Watson was taking a little bit off of his fastball for the sake of control, then probably so was every other guy that has throwing at the combine. So Trubisquit maybe took a bit off, in a drill where the point is to complete passes, and he was zipping the ball out at 55mph. 

 

But you're right. Arbitrary measurements can be stupid. So go rewatch Watson's season, and if you can't tell that the ball just DOES NOT come out of his hand like an NFL QB, then you can't be helped.

 

And if you think velocity is a pointless measurement for QBs, you must not have been a fan from 2002-07. Or have an understanding of what it is that Quarterbacks do. 

 

Or is it that you don't trust radar guns? Do you think they aren't real, and are really just a way for Cops to give people tickets? 

[nicg4360]

I'm not going to speak for everyone but I think it would be widely agreed upon that it's not that grabbing one of these QBs would be frowned upon its more so the pick of which we would have to use is. I agree that 6 is to valuable to use on a developmental player who won't see the field possibly all year. I'd rather have a high impact player (RB, DB) or trade down. I think Mac is in the same mindset and doing his due diligence if one of these QB's fall to a more reasonable pick being the second or a trade up but 6 should be out of the question. I think Peterman should be highly considered if he must draft a QB. He could use a somewhat low value pick (compared to a 1st,2nd) and with his experience in a pro style offence he has a smaller learning curve. Jmho.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

Mahomes, is the only one I'd draft and it would not be 1st round.

Kids got a monster arm. No more noodle arm guys. I actually like to just stock up this year, and go for QB broke next year.

I agree w this. I actually like his personality too...which I think is important. 

 

As a disclaimer i've been on record that if they do take a QB I guees I'd prefer Watson but that's not to say I'm advocating for it. I'll be initially disappointed w any QB at 6. 

[HessStation]

Double post sorry 

[Jet_Engine1]

47 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont recall Jamarcus Russell winning a National Championship.   Either way, they're not even remotely comparable.  Watson was a better passer by every single measurable passing category.  All those comparisons are ridiculous but that one is particularly ridiculous.  

 

Repeated for reasons of brevity....

[HessStation]

Triple post sorry 

[Jet_Engine1]

43 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Serious question, do you guys watch college Football?  To put them in the same category as Watson is laughable. 

The fact that you think DeShaun Watson has "plenty of velocity" and is a great passer shows that while you may watch College Football, you have no real idea what you're watching. 

 

The fact that you don't understand why success in College Football is not a predictor of success in the NFL (as I referenced earlier, including with Jamarcus Russell) shows that you do not understand the differences in the games. 

 

Watson is a good kid. He's a "gamer". He was a winner at the collegiate level. But he is going to have a hard time finding success at the next level. His game is nothing like Mariotta. In the NFL, the comparison is Tyrod Taylor. Maybe. And you don't draft Tyrod Taylor in the first round.

 

[HessStation]

Seriously the GM should just fire himself for taking a QB in the second round then, before even giving that QB an NFL snap, taking another one 6 overall the next season, in what's considered a bad year to take a QB early.

[Stark]

12 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

See Geno smith.  Too many question marks, not a true can't miss prospect.  Too many other needs.  Crappy qb class.  Next years class much better. Let the browns make the mistake

12 hours ago, SenorGato said:

What? What does "see Geno Smith" mean? What does that explain? What are any of these questions? 

Geno is a conceited, unlikeable, horrible QB. Geno has a strong arm and thats it. This is the worst possible way to explain the answer to the question in the thread.

He is asking for reasons why not to draft Watson. Geno has nothing to do with any reasoning to this. If you want to answer the question than be specific to Watson when you answer the question. 

There is not a true can't miss QB prospect in most drafts all of them have risk associated with the pick. Next years QB class could be much better, yes, but there is always the chance that it isn't. 

 

[derp]

56 minutes ago, thadude said:

Watson's accuracy especially on longer throws is a bigger issue than velocity 

The two could easily be related.

From what I've read and remember, the velocity test at the combine takes your velocity throwing at a target but only counts when you hit the target.

Possible Watson can rip it but is not accurate when he does and had to take a little off to ensure he hit the target. Which would explain confusion about his low reading and lack of accuracy when throwing down the field as he may need to put a little extra on the ball for downfield throws.

[derp]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

Watson's accuracy especially on longer throws is a bigger issue than velocity 

Whoops - I didn't need to post that twice. Chose a good username on this site.

[joewilly12]

11 hours ago, johnnysd said:

he should have played last season and we would have seen something I am so so fuucking tired of this drivel. Hackenburg not playing last year says NOTHING about him. and we were specifically told maybe as early as April of last year that he would red shirt his first year. He is a project and needs to fix some issues, but his main issue is footwork and that CAN be fixed.

Hackenburg has dramatically higher upside than Watson. Hackenburg has

Elite arm strnegth

Elite release

Extremely high football intelligence

Experience under center

Experience in a pro offense

Very high performance under a real head coach in O'Brien

Watson has NONE of these.

Hackenburgs upside is the best QB in the NFL.

Watson's is Alex Smith, maybe.

In my analysis, Mahones, Trubisky and maybe even Kizer and Davis Webb ALL have more upside than Watson, who I firmly believe will flop hard in the NFL. All he has is the "winner" intangible which has been proven over and over and over and over to mean nothing in the transition to the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Watson is Alex Smith who is Christian Hackenberg? 

Im hoping Hack is the franchise QB we all want and need don't get me wrong. 

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, derp said:

Watson's accuracy especially on longer throws is a bigger issue than velocity 

Ryan Fitzpatrick had poor accuracy and couldn't throw a long ball. 

[The Crusher]

40 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Seriously the GM should just fire himself for taking a QB in the second round then, before even giving that QB an NFL snap, taking another one 6 overall the next season, in what's considered a bad year to take a QB early.

This is fun and all but personally I don't think there is a snowball chance in hell  we take a QB at 6. I don't see how we can't agree that would pretty much doom this front office. We either move back to get a QB in a more reasonable slot with a pick gained or we take a mid/early late round QB. I mean seriously? You take Hack in second round last year and either Trubinsky or Watson at 6 this year? Then expect to still have a job? Not happening. Mack takes best player available at that spot or somebody who can contribute immediately. Neither QB even remotely meets those requirements; shit it's not even close.  Fun to talk about though. 

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

If Watson is Alex Smith who is Christian Hackenberg? 

Im hoping Hack is the franchise QB we all want and need don't get me wrong. 

Waldo. Because we were all wondering where the hell he was last year.