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safety is not how u build a team


kmnj

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Holy **** dude.  Are you seriously this dense?  I said they had the pieces in place.  Yes, they were a good team/better team than the Jets.  But they were world beaters, clearly. They won 7 games the year they took Reed.

Never mind that part because it' completely irrelevant...they had just lost Rod Woodson.  They're strategy and what made that D successful was having leaders/all-pro talent at every level of the D.  Suggs/Nagata - Lewis - Reed.  It's a similar approach is all I'm saying.  Mac went Williams - Lee - Adams.  Who knows, maybe Jenkins or Maudlin can step up.  I'm not saying it's the same caliber players but the approach is similar. 

 

 

u said they were not world beaters two years before drafting reed they were world beaters best in the world-they went fairly deep into the playoffs the season that just ended where they drafted reed after losing their best weapon-they were one of the top teams in the league -that is why they drafted at the END of the round are you that dense?

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

I'm not going to pretend like I know what type of offers Mac was getting.  Everyone thinks quantity over quality is important but doesnt factor in the very real possibility you could acquire more picks and **** them all up.  And then what?  You have nothing to show for it.  Getting what could be the leader of your secondary and a potential all-pro for the next 10 season is a good thing for a team that has 1 elite player.

 

 

Cleveland made 14 picks in last year draft and went 1-15

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's Mac 3rd draft.  This is his 3rd pick in the 1st round.  Not his 1st.  Why is this lost on all of you? lol

As @Warfish mentioned in another thread; before the pick, we were a team that can't score points. Now we're a team that can't score points, with a safety.

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12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The player is good, the jets loved the player and stuck to the axiom of if you love a player you take him.  all good.  But the part of the jets have holes all over the place is where we get into trouble.  When you have such a team with so many holes you have to fill them in bunches or you end up with the cycle of mediocrity.  Fill a hole this year, if lucky fill another one, fill a hole next year, fill a hole the year after that.

The Jets need more draft capital and have done a poor job of getting it.

 

 

ahh a voice of reason

the smart move was to trade the pick for more picks and address more needs

guys are defending moves made by a team that is regressing bigly under their watch

I never once said we got a bad player not once-I think he will be good but for a team on a total rebuild you need volume of players-one player a year does not  cut it-see past two drafts

lets see what they do the rest of  the draft

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm not going to pretend like I know what type of offers Mac was getting.  Everyone thinks quantity over quality is important but doesnt factor in the very real possibility you could acquire more picks and **** them all up.  And then what?  You have nothing to show for it.  Getting what could be the leader of your secondary and a potential all-pro for the next 10 season is a good thing for a team that has 1 elite player.

 

 

No argument here, it's a risk.  However I am looking at Cleveland with envy right now.  We are not that far off from how bad they were the last few years.

this year they added 3 very good looking players to their roster and they have a bunch more picks in this draft and 2 firsts and 3 seconds next year.  Within a couple of years they can rebuild the team and be in great position to get a franchise QB.

This team is still filled with holes, not only that but premium position holes.

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3 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Cleveland made 14 picks in last year draft and went 1-15

do you think their future looks better than ours?

2-3 years of stock piling picks they should be much better off if they draft properly

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

As @Warfish mentioned in another thread; before the pick, we were a team that can't score points. Now we're a team that can't score points, with a safety.

and we lost our best wr and some key o line guys to boot

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4 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Cleveland made 14 picks in last year draft and went 1-15

Exactly.  People already hate Big Mac and think he's incompetent but you want him making more picks?  haha ok

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

As @Warfish mentioned in another thread; before the pick, we were a team that can't score points. Now we're a team that can't score points, with a safety.

Who was going to help this team score points at 6?

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

Ed Reed was selected in the 20s. We took this guy at #6. Let that simmer for a minute.

It's simmering so good. 

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

No argument here, it's a risk.  However I am looking at Cleveland with envy right now.  We are not that far off from how bad they were the last few years.

this year they added 3 very good looking players to their roster and they have a bunch more picks in this draft and 2 firsts and 3 seconds next year.  Within a couple of years they can rebuild the team and be in great position to get a franchise QB.

This team is still filled with holes, not only that but premium position holes.

The really neat part is that the draft isnt over. 

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9 hours ago, kmnj said:

we all know today is an offense dominated league but lets examine past three decades as well

in round one since since 1990 -only true impact players at the position

thomas for the hawks-he was their second pick round one-first was a tackle

reed for the ravens-towards end of round one

berry for the chiefs -fifth pick

pretty much on avg a player a decade is a hit at safety round one and only one was picked higher than Adams in berry

He will be a good player but three decades of history show safety is not where you go round one especially when you have one pick and your team has a dreadful offense

 

 

 

 

 

You know what they say "it's a safety driven league!".

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Excellent, I will be happy for sure when we get our quality starting CB, LT, QB, RB, pass rusher, TE in the coming rounds.

Because you expected to address all those issues in the 2017 draft and only in the 2017 draft. 

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5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Excellent, I will be happy for sure when we get our quality starting CB, LT, QB, RB, pass rusher, TE in the coming rounds.

I will be happy with a very good TE and a very good RB

and yes maybe even another S since this draft so deep.

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Who was going to help this team score points at 6?

Mike Williams? If Deshaun Watson is as bad as people made him out to be, and Mike Williams is the reason Watson looked good, then how about we draft the guy that made DeShaun Watson look good against Ohio State and Alabama? 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Because you expected to address all those issues in the 2017 draft and only in the 2017 draft. 

You just made my point for me.  If you want to address sooooo many needs you need more picks and more high picks.  If you have to miss out on a really good safety in one year but it lets you fill a couple other positions with decent starters and lets you go for more high end players in the future you have the option.

Cleveland added 3 quality looking starters in this draft and still have lots of picks this draft and have all sorts of high end picks next year.

The Bills in their trade added a really good Cb prospect, a 3rd rounder this year and a 1st next year.

The player (adams) is really good, if he pans out as expected he's going to be a big help.  We still have too many high cost premium positions to fill and not enough capital to do it in a reasonable length of time.

I don;t have an issue with the jets taking a really high end d prospect, I don;t have an issue with not going offense or not taking a QB.  My issue is that they may have missed an opp to add a good chunk of resources to help fill these holes.

In the end time will tell of course.

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7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Mike Williams? If Deshaun Watson is as bad as people made him out to be, and Mike Williams is the reason Watson looked good, then how about we draft the guy that made DeShaun Watson look good against Ohio State and Alabama? 

Dont get me wrong, I wanted Watson but knew this team was sticking with Hack.  And if you saw any of my posts yesterday, I was falling firmly in the Howard or Williams or Davis camp.  That said, I didnt think Adams would be there.  

The beauty is, draft isnt over and I'll copy and paste the post I just made in another thread:

We went through this exercise prior to the draft. 1 RB in the top 10 last year  was a 1st round pick.  Arguably the best WR in the NFL was taken in the 6th round.  Similar to RB, if you look at the top 10 WR's from last year from a reception standpoint, 3 were 1st round picks.  The TE's? 1 was a 1st round pick.

Just look at the Jets offense from 2 years ago.  The QB?  7th round.  The WR's? Neither were 1st round picks.  The RB they had who led the AFC in rushing, was a UDFA. The TE?  Just kidding. ;-)

The Jets still have plenty of chances to improve their offense. 

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10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Mike Williams? If Deshaun Watson is as bad as people made him out to be, and Mike Williams is the reason Watson looked good, then how about we draft the guy that made DeShaun Watson look good against Ohio State and Alabama? 

I hear you but really besides Williams and Howard and maybe Ingram there was no real offensive weapon worth taking at 6 either. And it's not like Williams doesn't have big red flags and TE isn't really a premium pos either and there'd be lots of bitching there too. Ingram pick people would be screaming reaching for Keller P2. So really Mike Williams. That's fair but he has HUGE health red flags with speed and separation concerns. He's not risk reward positive enough to be too upset over taking Adams, I think.

 

Ross is a big heath risk and I'm not sure about McCaffery that early either.

 

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49 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

And you would think that using our first pick the last NINE YEARS on a defensive player would give us more than the dog shyte defense we put out on the field last season.

Pretty much the crux of things for me. The Jets have done nothing but draft DBs and DL for 11 years and both the secondaries and defensive lines are pretty average. It was just time for them to do something else and it doesn't look like that's ever going to happen. We are still talentless at every position that actually matters on the football field.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You just made my point for me.  If you want to address sooooo many needs you need more picks and more high picks.  If you have to miss out on a really good safety in one year but it lets you fill a couple other positions with decent starters and lets you go for more high end players in the future you have the option.

Cleveland added 3 quality looking starters in this draft and still have lots of picks this draft and have all sorts of high end picks next year.

The Bills in their trade added a really good Cb prospect, a 3rd rounder this year and a 1st next year.

The player (adams) is really good, if he pans out as expected he's going to be a big help.  We still have too many high cost premium positions to fill and not enough capital to do it in a reasonable length of time.

I don;t have an issue with the jets taking a really high end d prospect, I don;t have an issue with not going offense or not taking a QB.  My issue is that they may have missed an opp to add a good chunk of resources to help fill these holes.

In the end time will tell of course.

You're right time will tell and in a very short period time, the Jets will have 6 more chances to improve the team.

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Dont get me wrong, I wanted Watson but knew this team was sticking with Hack.  And if you saw any of my posts yesterday, I was falling firmly in the Howard or Williams or Davis camp.  That said, I didnt think Adams would be there.  

Even more reason to take Williams. The dude has a crazy catch radius. Hack wouldn't have to hit the ocean, he'd just have to get close to it.

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Just now, sourceworx said:

Even more reason to take Williams. The dude has a crazy catch radius. Hack wouldn't have to hit the ocean, he'd just have to get close to it.

I dont think Williams is a cant miss even though he landed in my preferred top 3 choices. And I think there is still some serious talent at WR and TE left in this draft.

 

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Just now, sourceworx said:

Even more reason to take Williams. The dude has a crazy catch radius. Hack wouldn't have to hit the ocean, he'd just have to get close to it.

I think Williams is the one fair argument. Except when you really look at him as an overall prospect his risk/reward has a lot more risk weight than Adams. So the question is how you'd weigh a riskier player at a more premium position. I don't know if I'm putting my GM career into the hands of a risky prospect like Williams. It's close, tough decision though. Would have been excited about Williams too I think. 

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Just now, HessStation said:

I think Williams is the one fair argument. Except when you really look at him as an overall prospect his risk/reward has a lot more risk weight than Adams. So the question is how you'd weigh a riskier player at a more premium position. I don't know if I'm putting my GM career into the hands of a risky prospect like Williams. It's close, tough decision though. Would have been excited about Williams too I think. 

Agreed.  

And is he really that much better than: Curtis Samuel, JuJu Smith, Zay Jones, Adarius Stewart, Chris Godwin?  I dont know. Probably but it's not a guarantee by any means.

And I still love a couple of WR sleepers: DeDe Westbrook, Josh Reynolds, Malachi Dupree, KD Cannon.

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Jets get probably the 2nd best player in the entire draft and of course there are many here that aren't happy.  No one that we could have picked would have turned this team around unless it was a QB and they wound up being "the guy".  We have so many needs so IMO it is a no brainier to take the BPA.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, AdrianMurrel said:

I don't trust the experts who do this for a living..fans who've watched a few YouTube clips of these players and post about it on message boards however I take as gospel..

same fans that screamed for sapp to watch the jets take kyle brady-fans many times actually do have a clue

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4 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Jets get probably the 2nd best player in the entire draft and of course there are many here that aren't happy.  No one that we could have picked would have turned this team around unless it was a QB and they wound up being "the guy".  We have so many needs so IMO it is a no brainier to take the BPA.

 

 

and once again that is why you trade the pick for more picks

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1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

Mike Williams? If Deshaun Watson is as bad as people made him out to be, and Mike Williams is the reason Watson looked good, then how about we draft the guy that made DeShaun Watson look good against Ohio State and Alabama? 

Value and need.

We have some good WR's.  We have nobody in the secondary.  Jamal Adams is a better safety prospect than Mike Williams is a WR prospect.    

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4 minutes ago, kmnj said:

and once again that is why you trade the pick for more picks

You don't just trade just to trade.  These GM's are in communication with teams prior to the draft to gauge what people may want for their pick. The Jets figure out what they would take for it and how far back they are willing to go.  It just wasn't there for them to do a trade that they liked IF there was anything to even think about.

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for the love of god they drafted another safety -keep telling me how they are experts and I am just a dumb fan

there was a playmaker there for us for the taking a guy most fans want and we go safety again

yes the jets truly believe u build a team by safeties maybe that is all we will play

FU MAC FU Bowles FU Woody-

the first safety is a good player but we should have traded for picks and for the love of god a second safety ?

 

 

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cook will be tearing it up and our offense will be the worst of the worst I hope they pick a safety again next pick wish I could un write all of my psls and take back my payments for the season

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